Re: R.B. Thieme Jr., Berachah Church Houston, Robert B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: Truthtesty ()
Date: August 14, 2009 08:56AM

To the Forum(and the world which needs to be warned of thiemite psychoses):

Let's look at the facts from Sodini's own blog.

This is the day prior to the murderous rampage and what book is he reading? The bible (who knows which version) and "the Integrity of God" by R. B. Thieme jr!

Where did this suicidal ex-Tetalestaian get the courage to murder and commit suicide? Was it the "integrity of God" by R B Thieme jr? It certainly is listed by Sodini as his preferred reading material the day before the shooting when he need to focus and gather courage for serial murder. Who was his support in his "new approach" to serial murder? When he had chickened out before? Well it is right there in the serial murderers blog diary R B Thieme jr's "Integrity of God"!

Sodini blog diary: August 3, 2009:(day before the sick serial murder)" I took off today, Monday, and tomorrow to practice my routine and make sure it is well polished. I need to work out every detail, there is only one shot. Also I need to be completely immersed into something before I can be successful. I haven't had a drink since Friday at about 2:30. Total effort needed. Tomorrow is the big day. Unfortunately I talked to my neighbor today, who is very positive and upbeat. I need to remain focused and absorbed COMPLETELY. Last time I tried this, in January, I chickened out. Lets see how this new approach works. Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for EVERY sin, so how can I or you be judged BY GOD for a sin when the penalty was ALREADY paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them. I will try not to add anymore entries because this computer clicking distracts me. Also, any of the "Practice Papers" left on my coffee table I used or the notes in my gym bag can be published freely. I will not be embarased, because, well, I will be dead. Some people like to study that stuff. Maybe all this will shed insight on why some people just cannot make things happen in their life, which can potentially benefit others."


And when previously normal people take Thieme's teachings to heart they become sick!

Thiemites are the very 1st to throw people under the bus when they question Thieme's teachings. And when people become sick and screwed up from Thieme's teachings? Thiemites claim that the person had "problems" prior to listening to Thieme.

It is one disaster after another thiemites. It is not one problem here and there.

Who knows the amount of damage this group has done which has gone unspoken?


Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2009 09:11AM by Truthtesty.

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Re: R.B. Thieme Jr., Berachah Church Houston, Robert B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: Truthtesty ()
Date: August 14, 2009 09:24AM

To kc:

I am empathetic and completely understanding of your situation. It is quite an ordeal at times when you love someone who is a thiemite and you see them being completely insensitive due to following Thieme's false teachings. In this case Thieme taught a false prioritization of a teacher above your family. Bible doctrine does not support this Thieme doctrine.


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Re: R.B. Thieme Jr., Berachah Church Houston, Robert B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: Truthtesty ()
Date: August 14, 2009 12:00PM

To the families of the victims of the Sodini massacre. My condolences for your loss.

When you have finished greiving, my suggestion to you is to get a lawyer and sue R. B. Thieme jr's ministries as well as Tetalestai's ministries for knowingly teaching a false teaching which a Doctor of Theology (Dr. Wall []) wrote of the teachings of Thieme which cause Schizophrenia. And that Thieme's teachings were coercive like the cult "the children of god".

I am certain there wouild be many ex-thiemites and ex-tetalestaians willing to testify to the truth of the sickness which is induced by Thieme.

Many thiemites will say "well this was free will ; no one made you listen". I liken the irresponsible behaviour of the cigarette companies which "gave you free will to smoke or not to smoke" but knowingly and irresponsibly withheld the carcinogenic information which caused millions to have cancer induced by the cigarette companies.



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Re: R.B. Thieme Jr., Berachah Church Houston, Robert B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: sistersoap ()
Date: August 15, 2009 03:16AM

I have just now heard of Sodini's relationship with a Thieme group and pastor. Can you help me save time by telling me which page the FIRST post was made about him on this thread?

I first learned of this man's connection to Thieme on David Cloud's FRIDAY CHURCH NEWS NOTES quoted below:

DOES ETERNAL SECURITY MEAN “BELIEVNG” MASS MURDERERS ARE SAVED (Friday Church News Notes, August 14, 2009,, 866-295-4143) - In his blogs, mass murderer George Sodini claimed that he was taught in church that “you can commit mass murder then still go to heaven” (“LA Fitness shooter once attended Plum’s Tetelestai church,” Tarentum Valley News Dispatch, Pittsburgh, August 6, 2009). On August 4 Sodini opened fire on women in a fitness center, killing three and wounding nine before turning the gun on himself. He claimed to have attended Tetelestai Christian Church in Pittsburgh for 13 years. The senior pastor of this church, Alan Rick Knapp, was ordained by R.B. Thieme, Jr., retired pastor of Berachah Church of Houston, Texas. Thieme taught many unique heretical doctrines, including that believers cannot understand the Bible on their own and that it is a waste of time to study the Bible without a teacher. Thieme does not emphasize properly the fact that genuine salvation is a life-changing event and that those who do not give biblical evidence thereof are not true believers. One of Thieme’s doctrines is “Rebound.” A former member of his church observes, “Rebound, at its core, is a completely false notion. ‘Rebound and keep moving’ gave thousands of Berachans free reign to have affairs, take the Lord’s name in vain, and sin with wild abandon. Confess it in the morning, get back in the club, and move on...” (“Interesting Former Thiemite Testimony, July 23, 2008, []). I have read Thieme’s sermon on “Rebound” and, unlike the apostle Paul, nowhere does Thieme say that professing believers who are living in sin should examine themselves “whether ye be in the faith” (2 Corinthians 13:12). Jack Rickard, a deacon at Tetelestai church, told the press that Sodini is in heaven because “professing a faith in Jesus as Saviour means you will have complete eternal salvation” (“Once Saved, Always Saved,” Valley News Dispatch, Aug. 8, 2009). Rickard is wrong. While the Bible does teach that the true believer in Christ has eternal life, it also warns frequently that many who profess Christ are not genuinely saved. There is a serious difference between profession and possession. “They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate” (Titus 1:16). That is a fitting epitaph for George Sodini, whose blog was filled with cursing, moral filthiness, bitter rage, and murderous hatred.


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Re: R.B. Thieme Jr., Berachah Church Houston, Robert B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: August 15, 2009 03:34AM

Xtian has been banned from this message board.

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Re: R.B. Thieme Jr., Berachah Church Houston, Robert B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: Truthtesty ()
Date: August 15, 2009 07:56AM


Orange's post on Aug. 7th appears to be the 1st Sodini posting.



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Re: R.B. Thieme Jr., Berachah Church Houston, Robert B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: Truthtesty ()
Date: August 16, 2009 01:50AM

zeebrook: Thank you Orange for your comments. Truthtesty, you seem in your rantings to be incredibly vindictive, emotionally wrought etc etc.

Truthtesty: hah lol wow etc...etc...? Vindictive? Emotionally wrought? How subjective and judgmental can you be? Etc... Etc...? What logically objective person describes someone else as etc... etc...? Unless it is you who have a false preconceived notion of people who exhibit emotionally wrought or vindictive behaviour at one time or another. Obviously this is about you being a problem to other people by trying to force them into your preconceived notions or academic categories(and writing them off), than it is about you accurately paying attention to other people.

zeebrook: Yes I am new to the forum only joining last Monday. In spite of your misgivings I am not trying to deflect, defend logical criticisms of Thieme's ministry.

Truthtesty: Then why didn't you question oranges' assumption about Sodini? You questioned only mine yet? Point being you were not being logically objective with your questioning. Were you emotionally predjudiced? Point being orange spoke of defending Thieme and I spoke of info which corresponded to what I have personally witnessed of Thieme and thiemites. Thus? It was quite probable that you are here to defend Thieme? Follow me so far? As there are quite often thiemites who jump in here with false pretences and I am still not certain you are not a thiemite. Despite your stating you'r here for corrected info to deal with other thiemites.

zeebrook: I have not debunked people's experiences all I have asked is for information that I can factually show to Thiemeites. Personal experiences appear to make no impact on Thiemeites as they will claim all sorts of things from privacy of the priesthood to judgemental attitudes etc to misunderstandings. What they will respond to is demonstrating point by point where Thieme is wrong on specific issues. Once they see that then we can move on to their experiences. Also, I did start reading the 150 plus pages of this forum the other day, I am up to page 50. Orange has kindly referred me to a pdf resource which I have started also to read. Whilst it may get up your nose Truthtesty that I raise some issues, I apologise to the forum if I am raising old ground, but again I am new to the forum and trying to catch up. Furthermore I am in no way trying to demean any recovering Thiemeite's experiences nor denying the reality of their emotions/feelings etc. As to the evidence of my birth I have the signed testimony of five witnesses: the obsterician, the midwife, the attending nurses (2 off), my father and my mother. My birth certificate has their signatures along with descriptions of distinguishing marks. Similar to the biblical requirements of two or more witnesses for the verification of any truth. Also I have experienced the rantings of Thiemeites, I have in a public forum been accused of anti-Thieme bias, I have had mail directed toward me warning me off my supposed crusade, I have been requested to leave a conference for questioning issues, also I have attended Berachah, I have personally discussed issues with R.B. Thieme Jr, with one of his senior assistants and with some of his cadre of hanger ons etc so Truthtesty you are not the only one so back off the inuendos that I am some sort of closet Thiemete trying to hijack your little forum.

Truthtesty: First you defend Thieme by not questioning oranges "thieme supported" statement AND? You only question my statements which did not fare well for Thieme and thiemites? And? After all the thiemite attacks on this forum? I am just supposed to naively assume without further interrogation that you are here just for corrected info to correct thiemites? Secondly, this is not "my forum" it belongs to many members of which? I am just one member. It is true though I will not let you or any thiemite hijack this forum. Not that kc or orange or sister would let you or any other thiemite hijack this forum either. Thirdly, that my behaviour is somehow "at fault", when I am falsely accused? That you insinuate my behaviour is "at fault" is ludicrous.
Regardless of your statement of your intent to find factual information to correct Thieme, it appears you are here to try to earn points with moderator and try to get me into trouble, as thiemites have tried to do in the past.

zeebrook: Truthtesty you accuse me of being "a pretentious academic". How is it to be pretentious when I have openly declared what I am trying to find?

Truthtesty: Well? Whilst it may get up your nose, You appear hypocritical. Get after what "you say" your looking for instead of confronting me. You seem more interested in confronting me than looking for correct information. Of which there is no need to confront me. So? You appear pretentious to me and you appear to spend too much time with high faluting words in the dictionary when any word with 4 or more syllables can be better communicated and can be broken down into basic english so that all can understand.

zeebrook: Information that can actually be used. Anecdotal information is unverifiable, and unsuable in discussions with Thiemeites. If I have the wrong forum for trying to find such information I would love someone to direct me elsewhere.

Truthtesty: The info is here get after it.

zeebrook: In response to your ludicrous comment that "And that the coversation should be directed by you as something that they should not talk about?" I have never said or stated this. Of course they should talk about it and I have not said they shouldn't. My quest is to find factual refutations I can use.

Truthtesty: Ludicrous? Oh really? So when I remarked about Sodini and how it related to the experiences of what I witnessed from Thieme and thiemites? Then you did try to redirect the conversation to only factual info. So quit lying in public its ugly. We are supposed to believe your intentions? When the info is on this website already? And instead of reading it you choose to confront me with your careless and false accusations? Not buying it.

zeebrook: Let us get back to academics that you, Truthtesty, seemingly despise yet you seem to support the comments made by academics when they supposedly agree with you.

Truthtesty: Here you are a fool with your careless and false accusation. I have no problems with academics. I am to a degree an academic. I read masters thesis and doctoral dissertations as well as other scholarly articles from Princeton, Harvard, Oxford etc... etc... I debate other academics with ease, but I cannot stand the fake absurd mind set of some academics who deny/(divorced from) reality for books and or who are dysfunctional with people and themselves because they are so absorbed in books or academic institutions.

zeebrook: I do not know you at all, and for that I am thankful based on the vituperative nature of many of your posts, but you come across almost in the mould of the Thiemeites that disgust you so much unlike many of the other posts of recovering Thiemeites who seem to have a gentler spirit of positive enquiry and growth.

Truthtesty: Its not working. Try a different angle next time. My behaviour upsets you? Cry me a river. I am not Jesus and I am the first admit it. But? Did not Jesus even get angry at the moneychangers? It is you who is demonstrating to me your thiemite-like behaviour. Often I return to thiemites what they deserve from their false accusations, it may appear thiemite-like but it isn't. Don't read my posts if they are too tough for you to handle and you'd like for me to be gentler somehow. You seem to be much like the thiemites who jump in here with a new name(after being kicked out) and try to confront me with their displeasure of my correcting R B Thieme jr. (Which I do with great accuracy and academically) and thiemites who still hold to the falsehoods of the cult of Thieme are left with their hatred of me because that's all they have left seething as their falsehood destroys them. Instead of learning they seeth in their venomous hatred of me for correcting their lord R B Thieme jr.

I am not convinced by your statements of who you say you are. And you seem to think you know a lot more about me for someone who has just joined this forum.

Let's see some proof of who you say you are and evidence of the anti-Thieme forum(s) or meetings.

Not that I have ever had a problem dealing with the cold nature of yours which shows no mercy in trying to understand another person, but I see no value in trying to get to know you further.


Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2009 02:05AM by Truthtesty.

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Re: R.B. Thieme Jr., Berachah Church Houston, Robert B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: Truthtesty ()
Date: August 16, 2009 04:54AM

Tet20: To Truthtesty: I am new to this forum, but felt compelled to respond to your accusations against Thieme and Tetelestai Church, of which I have been a member for 20 years. I have read your statements and wonder if you were from a household where there was abuse. Your bitterness and resentment seem to go much further than Thieme and his ordained pastors under him.

Truthtesty: If I had been abused, what difference would that make about Thieme's deceptions? Again here is another thiemite or what's Thieme's clone up there at Tetalestai Knapp? So you submit to your lord on earth Knapp? Or since Knapp copies Thieme are you a Thiemeknappite? The forum needs to take note once again that thiemites are UNWILLING and psychologically incapable of admitting that Thieme made an error. To thiemites it's always "someone elses fault not Thieme's fault". With Sodini, it's we kicked him out even though he had studied at Tetalestai for what 12 or 13 years. With me? Well I "must have been abused" or "he's over emotional" but "no one can put any blame or wrongdoing on "objective" lord Thieme" "lord Thieme would never lie for political ideology purposes" "if everyone else could just forget their natural senses of right and wrong(like Sodini) and replaced them lord Thieme's NEW political rights and wrongs such RIGHT man RIGHT woman - RIGHT pastor RIGHT congregation that all you need to be right or wrong about. You don't need to know the difference between right and wrong. Sodini learned that. "You can't even use your senses of right and wrong to "understand" so forget your senses of right and wrong, letum vegitate". There's a "new" understanding a "new" right and wrong. You can't do it yourself "your dependent on me like it or not" To this forum, these are trained suggestions in this reendoctrination camps.

Tet20: "Your bitterness and resentment seem to go much further than Thieme and his ordained pastors under him.

Truthtesty: oh really? I am certain Thieme would have exploded into a bitter tyranical rage if someone had mentioned that they were a liberal. You pretend that everything is "ok" like all thiemites and things are not ok, just for appearances thiemites pretend and deep down things are boiling and Sodini finally blew out. Sodini knew something was "not ok" and instead of dealing with and admitting Thieme's errors, we saw how Sodini dealt with something "not ok" with himself.

Tet20: Where you are off base and being distracted by your bitterness is that you are taking the focus away from the Cross of Christ, The FREE gift of Eternal Salvation for everyone to a lost and dying world, and majoring on the minors.

Truthtesty: To this forum "off base" is Thieme coded language and this person apparently needs to describe things in her own terms not Thieme's terms. To Tet20, I have no problems with truth, only when people lie about the truth. Was it upsetting to find out that Thieme lied and was very deceptive? Yes and it was shocking. So I am not "off base" to listen to the truth instead of Thieme.

I was bitter when I was a teenager, but emotions have never stopped me from thinking logically. Thiemites attacking their emotions does result in schizophrenia and yes less logical thinking. Thieme's attack on emotions was a non-stop continued embittered neoconservative political attack on liberals and did not belong in a Christian gathering.

Tet20: Your uninformed remarks regarding Sodini, showed me that you do not seek out the TRUTH before you make accusations.

Truthtesty: Uninformed? as far as you know. I had at least read the part of the Sodini diary about RB. Thieme jr's "integrity of god" the day before the serial murder so that he could gain courage to commit the serial murder. That plus all the rage and mental illness that I had witnessed? It was a no-brainer and still is.

Tet20: George Sodini had no one to blame but himself for his actions.

Truthtesty: I don't believe that for a second. The personality disintegration that I witnessed from thiemites is a complete possession of the individual's personality. They "break" from their real identity and develop a second personality outside and beyond their control from Thieme's authority cult. They superimpose Thieme's personality for their own. They have faith in Thieme's judgement not their own, etc... It is very likely the distorted second personality was "in charge" and one of the reasons Sodini needed to "focus" by reading the "integrity of god" by R B Thieme jr for the serial murder.

Tet20: Rick and all of us were sickened by the violence that this man perpetrated on innocent victims, and prayed for the families of the victims and the entire community that was affected. I have sat under Col Thieme many times, and understand that his delivery of teaching is not for everyone.

Truthtesty: I bet Rick did not shed 1 tear, that would be "emotional" "bad" "liberal-like".
How genuinely superficial and simple minded thiemites are.
You corrupted under Thieme. Thieme has corrupt authority. -od has perfect authority. Its a cult it is very subtle but it is a cult.

Tet20: I personally, have flourished spiritually under Rick,

Truthtesty: Really? You follow the teachings of Christ? Or the judgement of Paul? You practice "hexin" your senses are exercised discerning good from evil? Because Thieme's teachings on super grace are false and Sodini might have just as well have been considered in super-grace. IT IS FALSE. Even thieme admitted it is super grace can never be reached. The bible tells me that teachers are to "persuade" to follow -od's will, not coerce. That Christians are to submit one to another. How can it all be about "freedom of choice" yet? You must submit(one way submission not 2 way) to the corrupt authority of a teacher? Can you imagine Knapp or Thieme submitting to the authority of your annointing? Hah fat chance. Thieme and Knapp do not have any more authority than the authority of your own annointing. That is where you are "off base". But whether Thieme or Knapp like it the bible says submit one unto another and that includes pastors or teachers. Jesus was given all authority yet he served in the worst possible tortures and submitted and served the heritage of -od. Yet Thieme (and Knapp if he copies every aspect of Thieme) in his corrupt arrogance won't take knee and pray to -od with the congregation? A so-called minister of -od would demand submission through himself? As a high-priest for maturity? Hah Jesus is the high priest for Christians not a corrupt pastor.

Tet20: and know that we all have Free Volition to believe in Christ or not, and to find a pastor that we choose to learn from or not.

Truthtesty: How can you be free? Your words "Free Volition" are hot button buzzwords and their Thieme's not yours.

Tet20: I only hope that you did find another congregation/pastor, but by the bitterness that you exemplify, my guess is that you haven't. I'll pray for you.   ?

Truthtesty: I don't submit to false authority 2 Corinthians 1:24. I need no man to teach me. 1 John 2:27 Pray for yourself and the truth from the anointing will lead you to the truth of all things in this thiemite matter.


Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2009 05:10AM by Truthtesty.

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Re: R.B. Thieme Jr., Berachah Church Houston, Robert B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: Truthtesty ()
Date: August 16, 2009 09:37AM

To the Forum:

I think Sodini was somewhat close to figuring out what his problem was. He just could not bring it to the surface. You can see within moments of stating There is something BLATANTLY wrong with me that NO goddam person will tell me what it is. what pops up? "Rick Knapp stuff".

Sodini quote: "I guess some of us were simply meant to walk a lonely path. I have slept alone for over 20 years. Last time I slept all night with a girlfriend it was 1982. Proof I am a total malfunction. Girls and women don't even give me a second look ANYWHERE. There is something BLATANTLY wrong with me that NO goddam person will tell me what it is. Every person just wants to be ---- nice and say nice things to me. Flattery. Oh yeah, I am sure you can get a date anytime. You look good, etc. ----. Awwww, wait. I can just start being self-righteous and say I live a good, clean life. I am holy, that's all Rick Knapp stuff. Hear that you ----: I Am Just Good!"

Maybe if Thieme had taught that counseling was ok instead of demonizing counseling, Sodini would have gone and talked to someone instead of letting things build up pressure past the boiling point and exploding and expressing himself by murdering 3 women and wounding 9.
A good counselor would have picked up on "Rick Knapp stuff" comment since it immediately followed Sodini's opinion that something was wrong with himself. Then the counselor could have started to work on the Thieme/Knapp issues.

The last 15 of those 27 lonely years were definitely under Thieme influence.

One thing is very common among thiemites - living a single life and not being capable of maintaining long term relationships. And unfortunately those who do manage to maintain a relationship often they are really alone.
This is largely because of Thieme's false priority system. No one can be put as high on a pedalstal as Thieme puts himself through his false teaching.
And a dysfunctionalized disintegrated self cannot maintain a relationship with self, -od, or friends/girlfriends.


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Re: R.B. Thieme Jr., Berachah Church Houston, Robert B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: zeebrook ()
Date: August 16, 2009 05:05PM

[...] I have been reading through the information Orange sent me and especially the thesis by P. Mitchell on the The Soteriological Significance of the Physical Sufferings and Death of Christ". It is good to read reasoned argumentation on the scriptures regarding [...] This thesis has the seeds of what I am looking for to enable rationale discussion with Thiemeites on the authority of the scriptures as opposed to man's (Thieme's authority). Much like Jesus with the disciples on the road to Emmaeus where He opened the scriptures to them to reveal Himself (Luke 24:47). [...]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2009 10:08PM by rrmoderator.

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