THIEME ARTICLE with comments continued:
GATE 9: PSYCHOPATHIC ARROGANCE

I would like to devote hours and hours researching the REAL authorities on these psychological/psychiatric terms and conditions but I don't have the time or the expertise. Perhaps someone better qualified or with more time can deal with this aspect of what Thieme is apparently saying in this article.

But this is very typical of 'BIBLE CLASS' material. More often than not, he gives a few words in English, draws the Greek or Hebrew words on his overhead projector, "explains" or "expounds" the various grammatical features of the "original language text" {never mentioning which one he refers to WHICH IS IMPORTANT}, and then gives his 'CORRECTED TRANSLATION" then jumps into

'THE DOCTRINE OF......." {fill in the blank}

POINT ONE....
{Scripture references, if any}

POINT TWO......
{Scripture reference, if any}


Then Thieme gives his first of often long list of points, each followed by Scripture references. It SOUNDS like what he is saying is Scriptural, but if you never examine the ENGLISH for youself in context, nor take into account the entire Book, or the entire rest of the Bible, what time do you have to investigate this? NONE. Besides you have been taught that you are not supposed to read your Bible for youself and get this wonderful Bible Doctrine. You must get it from Thieme or one trained like him. IN PRACTICE that means a clone pastor.

Thieme keeps on firing rapidly point after point, Scripture reference after reference. Nobody I ever knew had time to go back and check all the references to see if what he said was actually coming from the Bible itself. Buy why try since his expertise impressed us into surrendering our own personal judgement or simple Bible reading in the privacy of our homes without Tthieme thundering in the background?


HOWEVER in this case if this were taken from Bible Class notes, or Thieme's notes himself, there is very very little Scripture at all, and what there is can hardly be stretched into the long article Thieme derives from it. In fact we have only his assertion that this is what the Bible means when it says what it does in the James verse about the 'double minded man."


The proportion of ACTUAL BIBLE MATERIAL to OPINION given is quite the usual thing in Thieme's teaching.


CONTINUING THIEME'S ARTICLE:
B. The psychopathic personality (SDB), now referred to as the antisocial personality, (SDB) likes to surround himself with others who also lack common sense and who are also moving toward unreality.

Note: Remember that a lack of common sense is described above as a mental disorder. Today, we might say to the person who manifests no common sense, “Man, you’re just not thinking straight!” We have just described a mental disorder!!

COMMENT:
Now we have Thieme with a tool to use to dominate anyone he thinks lacks common sense....he calls them MENTALLY DISTURBED and bases his judgment on common colloquial English phrases. I would rather just go by what the BIBLE ACTUALLY SAYS IN ITS ENTIRETY. I sure am glad Thieme is no longer functioning in the world, and that he is not in charge of the GOVERNMENT NANNIES looking out for mental illness....None of us would be safe in that case. And maybe that is the intended effect of this system of thinking.

MENTAL DISORDER/ILLNESS IS WHAT THIEME SAYS IT IS.

Is that a lack of common sense or what?


THIEME GOES ON:
with my comments in {{{xxx}}}:

D. Psychopathic believers are characterized by the motivational arrogance of gate #1, cosmic one, and the arrogance factor that motivates them may be any one of or combination of the following:

vanity, {{{Biblical word}}}
pride, jealousy, hatred, {{{Biblical words}}}
vindictiveness, implacability, a guilt complex, {{{Thieme special vocabulary}}}
fear, anxiety, {{{Biblical words}}}
abnormal modus operandi, {{{Thieme special words}}}
or constantly seeking revenge. {{{sort of Biblical reference}}}


COMMENT:
Point D above is full of Thieme special vocabulary. and you will have to forgive me if I make errors here in finding definitions so the non Thieme specialist can have some hope of understanding what on earth he is saying without getting a PhD in Thiemeology.

Let me begin with GATE ONE, COSMIC ONE:

from robert mclaughlin's web site:
[www.gbible.org]

COSMIC ONE
Cosmic one consists of grieving the Spirit. In Cosmic one the believer becomes involved with sin or preoccupation with self, which is the arrogance complex of sins, hence exiting the predesigned plan of God (PPOG). Once in cosmic one believers only need rebound, 1JO 1:9, to get back in fellowship with God.

COSMIC TWO
Cosmic two consists of quenching the Spirit. This is man's exit from the predesigned plan of God by way of antagonism toward God and the plan of God. Cosmic two entails more than sin per se in that it moves into evil. Evil is more than sin; it is a system of thought based on disputes, rejection and contradiction to the Word of God. Evil attempts to frustrate the grace policy of God. This "human viewpoint" takes more than mere rebound to re-enter fellowship with God, it requires recovery as well. Recovery is the cleansing of the mind through consistent perception, metabolization and application of the accurate teaching of the Word of God.

COSMIC SYSTEM
The phrase the cosmic system involves both cosmic one and cosmic two and entails the overall objective of Satan in using mankind to prove his superiority over God. The cosmic system is the devil's multifaceted policy for achieving his goal by way of human viewpoint projected through the world system. The cosmic system refers to the Greek work kosmos. Satan is king of the world and its cosmic system.

I can't easily find the defs for GATES but you can imagine that they are a series of entrances into the COSMIC SYSTEM defined above.

IT IS PROBABLY true that GATE 9 referred to in the title of this paper, GATE 9, PSYCHOPATHIC ARROGANCE, is part of the COSMIC SYSTEM.

My guess at the moment is that this is part of Thieme's teaching on REVERSIONISM,
defeined here from r. McLaughlin's web page
[www.gbible.org]

quote
REVERSIONISM
Reversionism is an act of reversing or turning in the opposite way, or a state of being so turned. As believers we were designed to execute the predesigned plan of God. But in reversionism we turn the other way and cannot be distinguished from our pre-salvation status. We are believers thinking human viewpoint. Reversionism is the act of reverting to a former state, habit, belief, or practice of post-salvation sinning. Reversionism is a reversal of your priorities, your attitudes, your affections, the object of your personal love accompanied by the destruction of your impersonal love, and the change of your manner of operation and personality.
end quote


The entire structure of Thieme's ministry depends upon everyone starting out with his two Basics series, which begins building the stensive edifice of this specialized vocabulary. Even Bible words which are in fact used are sometimes redefined Thieme's way. DEDICATED THIEME FOLLOWERS ARE VERY HARD TO REACH from outside this system! The vocabulary is so different and so ingrained by the time they reach his "mature" and later teachings that it is nearly impossible to get through it all, which the faithful come to regard as THE WORD OF GOD.

You can point to Scriptures which disprove Thieme all day long, as some have tried to do here, but Thieme's training and his followers' dependence on him do not allow them to think OUTSIDE THE THIEME CATEGORIES AND VOCABULARY. They will go back to Thieme's constant harping on various MECHANICS of the SPIRITUAL LIFE as he teaches it rather than simple dependence upon the Holy Spirit teaching the willing student from his best available English translation, which for me, is the KJB, a subject I have visited before on this thread and have dealt with extensively elswhere for those who are interested. Learning all this was a part of my recovery. See:
[forums.delphiforums.com]


(I am having trouble making the link show up in its entirety. If intrested go to DELPHI FORUMS, the one I am talking about is called SHIPP'S LIBRARY, you will find a FOLDER on the HOLY BIBLE, KING JAMES VERSION. Try message 118.1)


Thiemers will also insist upon HIS EXPERTISE and its priority for them. Therefore, those who disagree with him, no matter what their "expertise" cannot match thieme's in their minds, regardless of any of the facts of their academic accomplishments. If they don't agree with Thieme, they don't understand them, or they would agree, because he talls the truth all the time, and everything he says is BIBLE DOCTRINE.

Thus, opposing what Thieme teaches opposes the Bible in their minds.

So now we have a man opining upon mental illness who apparently thinks he knows what he is tallking about, and I don't think he does. It sounds to me like he is WINGING it as we would say in colloquial English.

The gist of ARROGANCE here is that it is mental illness to disagree with the THIEME SYSTEM? Your guess is as good as mine. I would conclude that. I DID conclude that. He defines his terms as he pleases, mixes in some Scripture and a few Biblical words and VOILA! out comes the neatest tool to control without seeming to do so...call the NEGATIVE BELIEVER MENTALLY ILL.

Talk about COMMUNISM? Brainwashing, anyone? Whoever disagrees with this system is psychopathic? Oh, no....first you have to believe it all and demonstrate by your MATURITY LEVEL, then REVERT from that maturity level, to earn the title of various kinds of mental disturbance Thieme lists in this article.



THIEME CONTINUES:
C. Arrogance under pressure produces psychopathic behavior.


COMMENT:
IT DOES? Where does it say so in the Bible? or standard mental health reference works?


Another Thiemeism for us to observe.


To be continued...

Sistersoap



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2008 11:58AM by sistersoap.

NOTE TO THOSE WHO CAME IN IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS SERIES:

Here is how Thieme began this article:

You can find it at:
June 23, 2008 07:27AM page 137 OF THIS THREAD:



QUOTE:

GATE #9: PSYCHOPATHIC ARROGANCE


Text: James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. (KJV)

(Any person involved in psychopathic arrogance is a double-minded person.)

Introduction

Some might want to call what I’m going to say a “breakthrough” in an understanding of some facet of Scripture that has been heretofore forgotten or never understood. I would not be so brazen as to say that I have had a breakthrough in Scriptural understanding, but I would not hesitate to say to you that what I am about to teach you is insight that has recently been illuminated to my mind by God the Holy Spirit.

Since human history and human life are about resolving a spiritual battle between God and Satan, the following statement is true:

Until an integrated, unified, cohesive personality is developed in any human being, the status quo personality of that human being must be considered abnormal.

If the preceding statement is not understood, people will just play head games with themselves, considering spiritually abnormal behavior and the spiritually abnormal people associated with it, so normal, that, for them, the disintegration of a nation and its people has no spiritual explanation, and in fact, is not even a consideration.

Now, I will expand the preceding statement:

Until an integrated, unified, cohesive personality is developed in any human being, the status quo personality of that human being must be considered abnormal, and that abnormal personality will manifest itself in any one of three ways: (1) normal abnormalcy, (2) neurotic abnormalcy, or (3) psychotic abnormalcy.

Since we are using the word abnormalcy, we must also acknowledge the word normalcy.

Normalcy defined and described: Normalcy is the condition in life that God demands of every human being. The demand is found in such verses as 1 Peter 1:16 and Matthew 5:48.

1 Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. (KJV)

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. (KJV)

Normalcy in life is godliness, holiness, the condition to be manifested in every life in every life situation, through the moment-by-moment function of the integrated, unified, cohesive personality, which personality is developed only in the human being who has been saved; is confessed up to date; is consistently and correctly applying the principles, promises, doctrines, and techniques associated with the unique Church Age; is yielded to God the Holy Spirit so as to be the recipient of His seven manifestations, manifested only within the life of a yielded believer; and walking by means of the Spirit. The function of the five preceding factors in anyone’s life results in an integrated, unified, cohesive personality, and anything less than the function of these five factors produces an abnormal personality.

END QUOTE

Please go back and catch up! You probably will not understand what follows if you don't.

If you have already stayed with this through the current post, thank you for your determination!

Remember that Thieme says the Holy Spirit illumined his mind the information in this article. I wonder if that includes the MERCK MANUAL, which is the only outside source he names in the whole series given here.

He was modest to not claim that this CONSISTED OF A DOCTRINAL BREAKTHROUGH, which he had not be reluctant to claim many times before this. Faithful followers will know what I mean, and if you don't you owe it to yourself to perhaps call the fount of wisdom in such things, R.B.THIEME JR. BIBLE MINISTRIES web site for current contact information. Ask them to explain what Thieme means by a DOCTRINAL BREAKTHROUGH then get back to us with it immediately.


We would love to hear what they tell you.

Meanwhile let me proceed with the next increment of the article. Remember the last item ended with "Psychopathic believers are characterized by the motivational arrogance of gate #1...." etc.

Now comes a "clarification":

QUOTE:
Note: Let’s be clear here. The following are characteristics of the psychopathic believer:

vanity characteristic of the psychopathic believer
pride characteristic of the psychopathic believer
jealousy characteristic of the psychopathic believer
hatred characteristic of the psychopathic believer
vindictiveness characteristic of the psychopathic believer
implacability characteristic of the psychopathic believer
a guilt complex characteristic of the psychopathic believer
fear characteristic of the psychopathic believer
anxiety characteristic of the psychopathic believer
abnormal modus operandi characteristic of the psychopathic believer
constantly seeking revenge characteristic of the psychopathic believer


COMMENT:
Is this clearer?

We have a right to ask, does he mean that if you have any of these characteristics, or just some of them, you are a psychopathic believer, or does he mean all of them, and in spades?

My point is: IT IS CLEAR AS MUD, and consists of opinion which is unsubstantiated by ANY reference to any source authoritative in the field. But it is typical of the author's modus operandi, to borrow one of his favorite phrases.

If I were uncharitable I could say he was making it up as he went along, but I suspect it took a LONG TIME for him to come up with all this.

But the poor earnest Thieme follower will see this list, recognize some of it as some of his attitudes some of the time, and likely conclude that HE IS PSYCHOPATHIC according to his revered leader, who is HIS CONNECTION TO THE TRUTH OF GOD.

That constitutes abuse.

It might be called MALPRACTICE. But who is holding him to account?


CONTINUING THE ARTICLE:
Note continued: Remember that the term “psychopathic believer,” here, describes a believer who is functioning in cosmic #1, gate #1, a person who is motivationally arrogant, and whose personality is split, and thereby considered a person with a mental disorder. This mental disorder is not corrected by medication. This is a spiritual problem cured only by the use of the mechanics necessary to produce the spiritual life. Everyone of the above mental disorders are cured by Bible doctrine resident in the soul, and again, we will never fully appreciate the plan of God for the human race, nor will we understand the present depravity of the United States of America until we are willing to recognize and label the above conditions as mental disorders of a psychopathic believer.

COMMENT:

And this fellow considers himself qualified to judge these things? Because the Holy Spirit illumined his mind on these things?

I ask you, would you not be better off going out of this mix of man's opinions with man's prejudices and a tiny fraction of Bible words and teachings, and go either whole hog to the psychological views of man by their "experts" or chucking the "psychology experts ALTOGETHER and begin to view all these problems as problems of living which GOD DEALT WITH IN HIS WORD ALREADY and which the Church dealt with for thousands of years calling it the CURE OF SOULS? The mix of this is silly and dangerous, in my opinion.

And while I am at it, Have we not seen this paragraph before?

Let me go back and check....


See back at part D above....
Here it is again:

quote:
D. Psychopathic believers are characterized by the motivational arrogance of gate #1, cosmic one, and the arrogance factor that motivates them may be any one of or combination of the following: vanity, pride, jealousy, hatred, vindictiveness, implacability, a guilt complex, fear, anxiety, abnormal modus operandi, or constantly seeking revenge.
end quote

Well the concepts bear repeating, I suppose......You will see them again, no doubt.


NEXT PORTION OF THE ARTICLE:

E. A society of arrogant people naturally breeds psychopathic personalities.


COMMENT: Again, where is his evidence?

Not that arrogance has NOTHING to do with a psychopath's make up, but he is representing himself as not only a Bible expert, but ONE WHOM THE HOLY SPIRIT ILLUMINED HIS MIND ON THIS SUBJECT. I would suspect the real Holy Spirit had little to do with this production. HE AT LEAST DOES NOT MIND DEMONSTRATING HIS DIVINITY.

Thieme simply states his opinons and expects nobody to notice that that is what they are, and to also call them BIBLE DOCTRINE. Is that healthy?


QUOTE CONTINUES:
1) Psychopathic personalities are prevalent in our fragmented society today.

2). As a result, America's psychopathic persons find the environment in which they live so filled with categories of arrogance that their drive toward unreality seems perfectly normal to them!

Today, you might hear someone say, “Chill out, dude! Everything’s cool.”

F. Quite often, people who are psychopathic are driven there by arrogant people, especially by people who are arrogantly self-righteous.


COMMENT:
Well we have multitudes of "psychopathically arrogant" people in American today bouncing around off each other. I wonder if any of this could possibly apply to Thieme himself???

I wasn't supposed to say that, was I?
Well, I did.

What do you think?


To be continued...

Sistersoap

THIEME ARTICLE CONTINUED: GATE 9 PSYCHOPATHIC ARROGANCE

I might add that the previous last quote from Thieme, saying:
quote:
F. Quite often, people who are psychopathic are driven there by arrogant people, especially by people who are arrogantly self-righteous.
end quote

reminds me of my own struggles with what I finally came to see as ARROGANT SELF RIGHTEOUS LEGALISM of the entire Thieme system. BUT HE IS A WONDERFUL MAN OF GOD, you say, who TEACHES THE BIBLE FAITHFULLY...etc etc.

Well I think it is at least a LITTLE SELF RIGHTEOUS TO CLAIM THIS ARTICLE WAS ILLUMINED TO HIS MIND BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. Especially as I go back through it, I should think the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD would be a little more original, careful with documentation, such as THUS SAITH THE LORD or a few, AND THE ANGEL OF THE LORD APPEARED TO ME AND SAID, or

IS THIS AN EXAMPLE OF BALAAM'S ASS speaking out of turn?

Perhaps I digress and get carried away....

I keep thinking of Pastor Thieme in his bedroom watching himself on DVDs of HIM TEACHING AT BERACHAH, unable to speak much, or respond, and finding it stimulating and comforting, and his family and followers feeling comforted with this picture. Far be it from me to deprive any person suffering from Alzheimer's form of dementia from any source of comfort or occupation as brain function decreases, but does this not seem a bit ODD?

Hopefully they play other stuff, like Nelson Eddy and Jeannette MacDonald movies....
(Hey, I like them myself....}

I mean, this man is the CONDUIT TO GOD AND HIS TRUTH FOR THOUSANDS of his followers and pastor teacher clones, and multiple churches in the movement around the world....and his brain is shrinking daily. He receives the BEST possible care, which is wonderful, but he WATCHES HIMSELF TEACH BIBLE DOCTRINE and this is HIS LINK TO GOD......

How odd.


QUOTE:
G. The arrogance of legalism, also referred to as self-righteous arrogance, is one of the greatest contributing factors to this problem, namely, the production of psychopathic believers.


COMMENT:
Well LEGALISM of all kinds sure does ball up a church, but the problem and it solution is right there in scripture, OF WHICH VIRTUALLY NONE ARE QUOTED IN THIS ARTICLE.

It took me years to recognize the legalism of the REBOUND WAY OF LIFE created by Thieme. It nearly destroyed years of my Christian life. It has driven some "alumni" away from any church ever again.....And he OPINES about self righteous arrogance contributing to psychopathic behavior.


To be continued...
Sistersoap

THIEME ARTICLE CONTINUED
GATE 9 PSYCHOPATHIC ARROGANCE

QUOTE:

9. Psychopathic persons are abnormal, and therefore, spiritually abnormal, and some are extremely sensitive, making them susceptible to religious emotion.

10. A religiously emotional environment is provided by well-meaning believers who themselves manifest the arrogance of ignorance, or blind arrogance, being ignorant of sound doctrine or distorting sound doctrine--who are totally mixed-up.

11. The psychopathic believer lacks the ability to evaluate realistically the object of his emotional responses or reactions.

A. Arrogant preoccupation with self excludes reality and leads a drive toward a false object.


COMMENT:
Thieme's ANTI EMOTIONALISM comes through loud and clear here, though if you had read only this you might miss it. All through his ministry from way back in the nineteen sixties and even before this, to his final teachings in the very early days of this present decade, Thieme crusades against EMOTION in the religious life of believers.

He makes it a point to RIDICULE emotional displays in other denominations and groups and demeans feelings at all turns... This is surely a distortion of what the Bible teaches! But it is a sign to him and his followers if you are emotional, or display emotions in public especially related to your religious beliefs and in your religious services that you are WRONG, ARROGANT, and we see here, YOU MAY EVEN BE PSYCHOPATHIC.

That is CRAZY MAKING! It is also doing a grave injustice to people you don't even know. Sure some denominations allow more public display of feelings in their services and practices. But Thieme lumps all emotional display into the GARBAGE CAN. God created man with FEELINGS and they are IMPORTANT. But in Thieme's church, one thing you can count on: people all look solemn, and straight faced, and seem to have blinders on. They don't greet strangers or even friends with a "holy kiss" or other displays of affection. When I was there, they IGNORED ME. They call it THE PRIVACY OF THE PRIESTHOOD OF THE BELIEVER. It was cold and impersonal, but I guess they were trying hard to emulate their leader, and it seems they succeeded.


NOW HERE COMES THE "FALSE OBJECT" an example of psychopathic believers in his system:


QUOTE:
B. For example, a psychopathic female may fall in love with a male in her periphery, making him the object of her hallucinations and fantasies.

C. Pursuing this pseudo-love with arrogant fanaticism, the arrogant psychopath loses all objectivity, reasoning power, and moral stability.

D. This means that the psychopathic believer under the influence of the cosmic system pursues a false object with irrationality, unpredictability, and abnormal behavior.


COMMENT:
It must be awfully lonely at the top of that pedestal.

Just imagine the pitfalls being LEADER.

Surrounded by worshipping females, the inundated pastor must remember to be quite careful not to excite the PSYCHOPATHIC FEMALES IN THE CONGREGATION into pursuing him lest he be contaminated by them or his TIME WASTED by their problems.

But what about HIS carrying on a LONG TERM AFFAIR with the church secretary?



Nothing said of that possiblity. NONE OF THIS APPARENTLY APPLIES TO A PASTOR, or is instruction given on what to do IF THE PASTOR HIMSELF IS PSYCHOPATHIC.

You would think that in such a thorough HOLY SPIRIT ILLUMINED discourse that subject would be at least MENTIONED. The real Holy Spirit is concerned with the health of the over all BODY OF CHRIST, including protecting the flock from MALPRACTICING PASTORS. You won't find a single word about it here.

I would LOVE for faithful Thiemers to point out to us ANYWHERE Thieme covers the subject, except to ridicule the practitioners of all other religions of Christian denomination except his own little independent flock, and those trained by him or in his image. Of course, ALL THIEME FOLLOWERS are well aware of his EMOTIONAL TIRADES AGAINST SUCH HORRIBLE PEOPLE as the JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES and other such drroneous doctrinal groups. BUT EMOTIONS are BAD. So why is THIEME SO FREE WITH HIS IN THE PULPIT, ESPECIALLY THE EMOTION OF ANGER and RAGE?

Yes, the Scripture says BE ANGRY but do not sin in your anger.

Well, is RAGE in the pulpit OK the way Thieme displays it?

I can't see how.

Thieme genuinely desires the best for this country. He observes accurately that WE ARE IN TROUBLE in just about all the ways a country can be in trouble. I think we can all agree with that assessment.

But the difference with Thieme is that he blames THE BELIEVERS THAT DISAGREE WITH HIM or who are in his flock but fall away from following his teaching for the biggest part of the problem. If they will be faithful in learning and applying his teaching of BIBLE DOCTRINE, then God will rescue this nation OUT OF ALL ITS PROBLEMS, and I don't see that in the Bible. PROPHECIES SAY THAT EVENTUALLY GOD WILL RESUCE ISRAEL in this way, but THE USA IS NOT NOW AND NEVER WAS ISRAEL.

And that was something I never thought of while 'inside."

The whole reason for this article appears to be to show his audience the relationship between the PSYCHOPATHIC BELIEVER and the DECLINE AND FALL OF THE USA.

That is one of his motives for coming up with all this stuff.


CONTINUING THE ARTICLE:
E. Psychopathic arrogance has no capacity for love.

F. Therefore, because of this incapacity for true love, he becomes occupied with some form of self-gratification that interrelates with the other cosmic one gates, including sexual arrogance.

G. This is often the source for criminality and the explanation for rape.



COMMENT:
No capacity for love is a cnsequence of the teaching of Thieme.
God has INFINITE CAPACITY FOR LOVE, and He even loves Thieme.
Thieme's definition of "love" in practice is to not have "mental attitude sins" toward someone. As if that warmed them in their hour of need. It is perfectly imperceptible on the outside to the supposed object of this "impersonal love" so what good does it do to have it?

USELESS and positively harmful. Imagine having impersonal love toward your family members and then wondering why they don't "respond" more warmly to your "feelings" toward them?


QUOTE:
12. Psychosis (SDB) refers to a mental disease that manifests a serious mental derangement.

Note: When you use this term to describe a person’s condition, be thinking in terms of a person who has “lost contact with reality.” This is a very serious problem. 13. Psychosis in believers.

A. While the term “psychosis” occurs in homosapiens in general, this study deals only with psychosis in born-again believers.

B. The psychotic (SDB) believer is the product of his own arrogance and multifarious bad decisions from a position of weakness, that is, residence in cosmic one.


COMMENT:
So your psychosis is your own d*** fault! Believer, it is YOUR FAULT, YOUR bad decisions, etc. Blame the victim.

More personal opinions here, and no professional references in the field. Does this constitute arrogance? To opine and to have it taken for BIBLE DOCTRINE? What a rush! What adrenaline must course through the veins.....and all this was illumined to his mind by God the Holy Spirit.

I don't discount the possibility that the psychotic may have something to do with his own condition, but Thieme claims to be dealing with the BELIEVER and gives NO SCRIPTURES for ANY of this.

Onc could conclude that the Scriptures don't cover this, and it doesn't, certainly not in the form Thieme presents mental illness in this article. So maybe his teaching is not the REMEDY he claims it is. BUT IT COULD BE THAT GOD DEALS WITH THESE PROBLEMS LIKE HE DOES ALL OTHER PROBLEMS of humans, with HIS WORDS, not with Thieme's opinions.

HERE COME SOME OF THEIME'S PREJUDICES.


QUOTE:
1) An environment for bad decisions is provided by certain elements of Christianity, namely, the pentecostals, the charismatics, and the legalistic fundamentalists.

2) These groups provide an environment of significant unreality that is an incubator for bad decisions.


COMMENT:
He singles out groups he disagrees with some of which involve traditional emotional displays, such as pentecostals and charismatics. He does not expound on specific errors of belief and practice here. That might be useful. It is definitely limited in the Word of God using that Word as the plumb line to measure how far off base something is.

These groups are well known for emotional display and we have seen HOW THIEME HATES EMOTIONAL DISPLAY except, of course, for his ANGER, WRATH, AND RAGE from the pulpit.

Then he mentions a group which is not all that well known for emotional display:
LEGALISTIC FUNDAMENTALISTS.

He elsewhere calls this group, THE FUNDIES.

While I was inside, I chuckled along with all the other listeners at his rants about the "fundies." Little did I know that I would BECOME ONE.

I suppose that is what Thieme would call me now. I believe the Bible is God's Word inspired, infallible, best translated in English in the King James Bible. I believe in rightly dividing the Word of God is essential to clear doctrine and practice of Christian faith. I also believe, UNLIKE MOST "FUNDIES", that the Christian has been TOTALLY FORGIVEN AT THE CROSS, and doesnot confess his sins TO GET FORGIVEN, as Thieme teaches. I believe that my new identity in Christ is complete in Him and that I no longer live, but Christ lives in me, supplying my every need and keeping me safe until He calls me home to heaven. I grow by living and being who God created me to be by believing what He says in His Words in His book.

I am not in charge of this process.....If I were, it would be WORKS. Instead, the Spirit BEARS FRUIT in my life, not works.

But all this is revealed to anyone who wishes to know it by reading and believing GOD'S WORDS in HIS BOOK.

It is not dispensed by a pastor because he is an "expert" in the "original languages."

The King James only people do not like my grace beliefs. The grace believers don't like my stand for the King James Bible. I don't really belong anywhere!

And all this is certainly not in anything Thieme teaches.

Yet, if you examine Berachah's STATEMENT OF FAITH, you will find a fairly orthodox doctrinal position similar to that which DALLAS SEMINARY puts out. There is NO WARNING AT ALL about what is to come, because they don't think there is a problem with it.

But Thieme's ridicule of the FUNDIES and their supposed "legalism" hides the strong legalism within the THIEME SYSTEM ITSELF.

The rebound way of life, for example. Keeping short accounts with God, as if the slate was not wiped clean at the FINAL SACRIFICE FOR SINS AND FOR SIN, AT THE CROSS.
The benefit of that work is not enjoyed in the process of slavery to the Thieme system. They talk a lot about GRACE, but demonstrate very little of it in practice. Adhering to the Thieme teachings makes one a PHARISEE. If you want to see what that looks like in practice, go over to DELPHI FORUMS, check out the BIBLE DOCTRINE STUDY GROUP, a pro Thieme group, and look around. Chat with them for a while in the VISITORS' folder. They don't allow non Thieme believers to have free access to other threads until they have been approved for posting elsewhere. Check out the subject of ABORTION for example. See what you think. Then report back here with your findings.

Making GRACE into a LEGALISTIC system has to be a terrible twisting of truth, don't you think?


To be continued....

Sistersoap

GATE 9: PSYCHOPATHIC ARROGANCE article by Thieme continued:

QUOTE:
C. Once locked-in arrogance (SDB) occurs, the believer enters a state of mental disorder, sometimes gradually, sometimes rapidly.

D. In a psychotic state, by definition, the believer can no longer recover through spiritual means. He has crossed the line, and first requires psychiatric treatment.

1) Whereas the implementation of the mechanics required to produce the spiritual life brings about spiritual recovery from many bad decisions, this cannot bring about recovery from a psychotic condition.

2) Until such a person receives psychiatric treatment, there can be no recovery.


COMMENT:
Yes, once you are in LOCKED IN ARROGANCE and Psychotic you MUST be psychaiatrically treated.

So, believer, you may conclude that you must avoid disagreeing with Thieme or even think about leaving his system lest this happen to you!



QUOTE:
E. The field of psychiatry has experienced tremendous advances in the field of medications so that a psychotic person can once again function in a nearly normal manner.

1) It is not normal to require the use of medication to function in a normal fashion, therefore, it is the need for medication that generates the following statement: the psychotic person can function in a nearly normal manner.

2) Without the use of medication, it is impossible for the psychotic believer to learn doctrine, regardless of how much and how often he listens.

3) There can be no recovery from the psychotic condition without medication!


COMMENT:
Then you can take your pills and COME TO BIBLE CLASS and NOT BOTHER ANYBODY while you 'RECOVER" DURING YOUR use of the MECHANICS of the SPIRITUAL LIFE.

Makes sense, eh?

Where is the Holy Spirit in that?


QUOTE:

F. It is the tendency of those who have provided the environment of unreality through legalism to try to resolve the psychotic believer’s problem through prayer.

1) You will never resolve this problem through prayer.

2) Prayer cannot reverse the process by which a believer has become psychotic.

3) Even if God did perform a healing miracle, the mentally disturbed Christian would go right back into the arrogance process—healing doesn’t cure the old-sin-nature.

4) Therefore, a thousand bad decisions cannot be reversed by fervent, daily prayer.

5) That is not the purpose of prayer; it was never intended to reverse the law of volitional responsibility.


COMMENT:
Long before you become psychotic, your loving family and friends should notice and act to help you....but in THIEME'S SCHEME OF THINGS, the privacy of the priesthood PREVENTS THIS KIND OF COMPASSIONATE, PRACTICAL HELP.

And the pressures and the anxieties of the Thieme system INCREASE the likelihood of a person suffeirng in the ways "described" in this article, in my opinion.


QUOTE:
6) You cannot coerce the volition of someone else and make him well through prayer.

7) This, however, is a typical prayer of the legalistic believer who has little to no understanding of the spiritual life.


COMMENT:
WELL OF ALL THE NERVE.

NO UNDERSTANDING OF THE SPRITUAL LIFE, means apparently the dumbell did not listen in class or rebelled against what he heard. He went "negative" to the teaching, and reverted through arrogance and became mentally disturbed.

It is the SYSTEM that is disturbed, and not believing it is part of the REAL RECOVERY.


He calls the believer LEGALISTIC who has "LITTLE OR NO UNDERSTANDING OF THE SPIRITUAL LIFE" meaning HIS VERSION OF THE SPIRITUAL LIFE, emphasis on

MECHANICS

of same as taught by Thieme. So if you disagree with Thieme and appeal to prayer in your distress regarding mental illness, you are LEGALISTIC since you try to deal with our confusion and distress with prayer. He would likely say this prayer has no doctrinal content.

But since when is the Holy Spirit HELPLESS or LIMITED by our imperfections?

It is true that you can become so mentally sick, that you can't recover alone. SOMETIMES psychiatric help is needed. But Thieme's system creates some of these same problems. It is itself LEGALISTIC in the extreme. YOU MUST GET THAT DAILY BIBLE CLASS OR TAPE IN....or else!!!

THAT is legalistic!

YOU MUST BELIEVE what Thieme teaches, or God will get you.
He might even kill you, if you leave the system, meaning the SIN UNTO DEATH.

And leaving the system is going to be the source of the USA's destruction.


QUOTE:
G. When a believer lives in cosmic one for a prolonged period of time, influenced by motivational arrogance, it is unreasonable to expect God to instantly reverse a situation compacted and compressed from hundreds and thousands of bad decisions that were made from a position of weakness.

H. Parents who function in cosmic one, gates #1, #2, or #3 can rear their children under legalism from the time the children are in the cradle, creating for the children the environment of unreality, so that if the children have the same predilections as the parents, the children will move, step by step, toward a psychotic condition.


COMMENT:
Would it be unfair of me to ask what influence Thieme's mother's mental illness had on this man's career and teachings? It was so severe that she had to be hospitalized for long periods of time and eventually her behavior resulted in a divorce between his mom and his Dad.


QUOTE:
I. Arrogance has produced a cult (SDB) of people in this country who reject authority, and the size of the cult continues to grow.

1) This begins in childhood where personality is dominated by primitive basic drives to the exclusion of rational behavior.

2) This is seen in children who have excessive tantrums, are destructive, are allowed to sulk, are deceitful, obstinate, boastful, shameless, and erratic.


COMMENTS:
We have always had BRATS among us, but we do see a major increase in brat-ism. I wonder if "prep-school" reduces bratism?

The hippies are now in charge of the gov't and the asylum too. They will definitely not feel comfortable in Theime's church or any other church like it.


QUOTE:
J. Sometimes psychotic conditions are irreversible because a person’s arrogance causes them to reject available medical help; and though they may seek spiritual help, spiritual help cannot help them.

K. The road to recovery demands certain things that will make recovery possible.


COMMENT: Well, sick people need both spiritual and physical help. If you are psychotic and refuse AVAILABLE help, it makes things very very hard. But there are down sides to medication as well. So they are not an unmixed blessing to those who need them.

My main concern is that Thieme is making these "diagnoses" and judgments, and his flock is taking it all in as BIBLE DOCTRINE.

Members of the flock then apply these opinions, diagnoses, and judgments ON EACH OTHER. In the group, people can be ostracized by others who perceive them as being "negative" to "Bible doctrine" and FREEZE them out. Imagine what this does to a family?

This is a herd mentality and the so called privacy of the priesthood makes it impossible to get the attention you need, even if you wanted it from THEM.

AND FOR THE DEVOTED THIEME FOLLOWER, BIBLE CLASS COMES HOME WITH YOU and is in your head 24 hours a day, SEVEN DAYS A WEEK.

To be continued....
Sistersoap

GATE 9: PSYCHOPATHIC ARROGANCE
Thieme article, continued:

QUOTE:
K. The road to recovery demands certain things that will make recovery possible.

1) Proper medication prescribed by a competent doctor.

2) Taking the prescribed medication properly and consistently.

3) The consistent use of rebound for cosmic one involvement.

4) Constant yieldedness to God the Holy Spirit


COMMENT:
Let's see how helpful these instructions are.

FIRST, medication: needed in some cases so a person can concentrate, but sometimes they themselves interfere with concentration.

How about coming along side the sufferer and sitting down with him INDIVIDUALLY and discussing what he needs to know of "Bible doctrine?" NOPE....not in the Thieme system. You have to get it in a group, from a tape, or at Berachah itself. NO INDIVUDUAL MINISTRY ALLOWED.

Wny?

Because believers are NOT AUTHORIZED to TEACH EACH OTHER BIBLE DOCTRINE. In this system the only authorized source is the PASTOR-TEACHER. One on one is NO NO. How very sad!

You can't just sit with a friend and read the bible together and talk about it.

SECOND, listed above is the PROPER USE OF REBOUND for time spent in "cosmic one." This refers to the IN AND OUT OF FELLOWSHIP belief when the Christian sins. This is NOT BIBLICAL. It is indeed human thinking. It says God withholds his forgiveness until or unless you CONFESS EACH INDIVICUAL SIN, and not only that, that you are OUTSIDE HIS PLAN, and without His provision and blessing until you are "back in." So you have a BUILD IN SYSTEM OF INSTABILITY FROM THE VERY BEGINNING OF THE SO CALLED CURE.

Scripture does not link "fellowship" and "confession of sins"---it is not ther. It has been constructed by human thinking and is very poipular in helping pastors CONTROL THEIR CONGREGATIONS by fear and guilt.

See the posts in this thread by SpirituaLiberty on the REBOUND ISSUE. They are very pertinent to the Scriptural side of this issue.


THIRD, what EXACTLY is "YIELDEDNESS" to the Holy Spirit? It sounds good, but what does it really mean? Wher is it in the Bible? Does it mean perfect obedience in thought, word, and deed to all God's commands and directions? If that is what it does mean, then it is IMPOSSIBLE in this life. Again, a vague and unhelpful directive.


QUOTE:
5) Persistent perception of doctrine becomes a factor only after the patient has undergone such treatment so that he can now listen, concentrate, and actually metabolize the doctrine.

6) The application of pertinent doctrine to all of life’s situations.


COMMENT:
Of course, you need to be able to listen, concentrate, and "M,ETABOLIZE" the DOCTRINE....

Er, uh, WHAT DOES "METABOLIZE" mean?
If I am having trouble concentrating on ordinary English, how can I understand this? What does it have to do with Bible?

Well, in the Thieme system it has to do with "taking in and learning and (apparently) applying the teaching of Bible Doctrine from Thieme.

But wait, what does this LOOK LIKE? How can I know when I have METABOLIZED enough, and the right ones, and if it will STICK this time around? The theory is I HAVE TO START ALL OVER AGAIN WITH THE BASICS AND GO BACK THROUGH ALL THOSE TAPES.....to get "well."

HELP!! The cure is the problem is the cure is the problem, over and over and over.

LAST one is told that one must APPLY PERTINENT DOCTRINES TO ALL LIFE'S SITUATIONS. That sounds like MATURITY to me.....in the Thieme system. When you pick this apart, it is very unhelpful and unspecific. You can't ask these very basic questions in the group. You are supposed to understand Thieme's explanations and instructions, and if you don't, and you do ask, they will give you a Thieme tape or book to listen to.

Personally, I like JESUS' WAY much much better.


We are dealing with LIVING BREATHING HUMAN BEINGS part of the BODY OF CHRIST, seated in the heavenlies with Him, not zombies crushed underneath the load of legalistic system disguised as grace.

He said you had to become AS A LITTLE CHILD to enter in the Kingdom of Heaven. And Paul the Apostle of the Gentiles said we were to pursue the SIMPLICITY WHICH IS IN CHRIST.

The Thieme system is not simple. It is not organic growth, it is a legalistic nightmare. It is dominated by fleshly methods. It is certainly not illumined by the Holy Spirit as Thieme said this paper was.

It takes some truth, mixes in a hefty amount of personal opinion and ranting, and calls the result NECESSARY to life and godliness.


QUOTE:
L. Under the law of antithetical arrogance (SDB), a person reacts arrogantly in one state of unreality, and loved ones react in arrogance in the opposite way, so that no one ever reaches a solution.

1) Arrogant children will react against parents in some form of arrogant unreality, and the parents will then react against their children in a different form of arrogant unreality.

2) Apart from Bible doctrine, the reaction always goes from one state of arrogant unreality to another state of arrogant unreality, never finding the solution.

M. You cannot resolve problems while you are reacting against someone else.

1) After reacting against someone for years, it is inevitable that this drive toward unreality will take the person doing the reacting into a neurotic (SDB) or psychotic condition.


COMMENT:
I want the READER'S DIGEST CONDENSED VERSION OF THIS.

How useful is this when one really searches for a "cut to the chase" summary? Would it not be better to discuss pride from a Scriptural viewpoint, and see what God has to say about it, without wandering in and out of this maze? He repeats the same ideas over and over, and makes it seem as if NEW information is being produced. But is is the same idea rephrased just a bit differently. I think a high school person could distill this and if there IS anything useful in it, come up with a much more practical result.

Instead we get statement after statement of repeated ranting about "arrogance" and unsubstantiated "declarations" meant to be taken as fact without question.

Is this a case of the ARROGANT being followed and worshipped by the INADEQUATE?

{{{For well instructed Thieme followers, this should be an INSIDE JOKE.}}}


QUOTE:
2) The tragedy occurs when it becomes too late to pick yourself up because the reaction process has become so deep-seated and ingrained.

3) At this time, all decisions made in one state of unreality are no more than reactions against another state of unreality, and Bible doctrine has never been given a chance to work.

4) People in this state who continue to listen to Bible doctrine listen only as a ritual rather than for momentum in the plan of God.

5) Doctrine cannot solve a problem when a person’s momentum is within the world of unreality!


COMMENT:
Take this slowly:
You react to truth. {Thieme taught}
You say no to something.
You get stubborn in that.
You sick around wasting time listening anyway.
It becomes a ritual without reality.
{{{Now that is one accurate way to describe the entire Bible class process.}}}
You are hopeless, helpless, useless.
So you go nuts.
You lose contact with reality.
You take pills to be able to attend Bible Class with some semblance of the accepted zombie hood.
You REBOUND CONSTANTLY.
You go back through all those clear as mud and irrelevant discussions that have a few biblical justifications in them, but you can't remember them, so you keep your notebooks so you can look up the proper doctrine in time of urgent need.
You KNOW you can't just chuk it all and leave.

One day, a single thought creeps in through the back door:

"MAYBE THE PROBLEM IS WITH THE TEACHING, TOO."

"MAYBE NOT EVERYTHING HE SAYS IS TRUE."

{{{Shudder.}}} Scary thought, but the way to freedom is near....

In this system DOCTRINE BECOMES A WORK. Giving Doctrine a chance to Work is a denial of the Person and Work of Jesus Christ Himself.


To be continued....

Sistersoap

GATE 9, PSYCHOPATHIC ARROGANCE Thieme article, continued:

QUOTE:

L. Under the law of antithetical arrogance (SDB), a person reacts arrogantly in one state of unreality, and loved ones react in arrogance in the opposite way, so that no one ever reaches a solution.


COMMENT:
He just made that up, didn't he?
THE LAW of antithetical arrogance? I would say it is a mutual exclusionary society. But those are MY WORDS, and his ARE HIS WORDS, not God's!


It sounds so pompous to me now. But then it was TRUTH.

QUOTE:

1) Arrogant children will react against parents in some form of arrogant unreality, and the parents will then react against their children in a different form of arrogant unreality.

2) Apart from Bible doctrine, the reaction always goes from one state of arrogant unreality to another state of arrogant unreality, never finding the solution.

M. You cannot resolve problems while you are reacting against someone else.


1) After reacting against someone for years, it is inevitable that this drive toward unreality will take the person doing the reacting into a neurotic (SDB) or psychotic condition.

COMMENTS:
Reminds me of James Thurber and his day dreams.....

But I think Thieme found a way to pad the pages saying nearly the same thing over and over as if he were being paid by the word...but of course, we know that he was not being paid by the word....


QUOTE:
2) The tragedy occurs when it becomes too late to pick yourself up because the reaction process has become so deep-seated and ingrained.

3) At this time, all decisions made in one state of unreality are no more than reactions against another state of unreality, and Bible doctrine has never been given a chance to work.

4) People in this state who continue to listen to Bible doctrine listen only as a ritual rather than for momentum in the plan of God.

5) Doctrine cannot solve a problem when a person’s momentum is within the world of unreality!

COMMENT:
THE JOKE IS ON ME....this IS A REPEAT.....repeat, I forgot I had already covered this....


Let us proceed from here...

QUOTE:
6) This is why it is so important to reside inside the divine dynasphere, yield to God the Holy Spirit, learn doctrine for epistemological rehabilitation, and begin using the eleven problem solving devices.

7) Reaching the point of using the problem solving devices is what causes the break with unreality.

COMMENT:
HUH?

Let's see we have a big unbiblical word here, DYNASPHERE, DIVINE....

DIVINE DYNASPHERE - The palace or the sphere in where lies divine assets and privileges that God has given to each Church age believer. Hence divine dynasphere can be equated to the PPOG, or predestination noted in the Bible.

PPOG is the PREDESIGNED PLAN OF GOD.

Now you know.

First. last and always, if I can't find this in my bible why should I bother with it?
In the context of this forum and this thread, the only reason is that so many earnest people believe this IS THE BIBLE'S TEACHING because Thieme, the expert told them it did, using his innovative system of vocabulary to "help the understanding" of the average believer.

Well, friends, it has turned out to be a disaster, pure and simple, We get all balled up in intricacies where God puts NONE.

Well the teaching says that to be IN the dynasphere you have to stay in "fellowship" do you not? If sinning gets you out, and you lose too much time OUT, then you slide into reversionism, and from there you face the chasm of abnornal abnormalcy, or even psychotic abnormalcy, you CANNOT OBEY THIS DIRECTION if you sin. If you think you can try going just one day diligently "rebounding" each and every time you sin. Make sure you miss not one single sin of omission, or comission. Not one mental attitude sin slips by you unconfessed to God. How much time do you have to actually LIVE?

Leaving the dynasphere is inexcusable it seems. Who would not want to be confessed up and yielded to the Spirit, whatever that means exactly, and "taking in doctrine" in order to have all these advantages which by the way, CHRIST PROVIDED FOR YOU AT THE CROSS FREE OF CHARGE TO YOU, as a GIFT.

But this process is not how you receive a GIFT. You have to work very hard to suceed in the thieme system. but it is the appeal to religious pride that catches many up in it, working hard, learning, listening, applying, and this is all the works of the flesh. God does not make His Truth that hard to get.

My friends, if you are IN CHRIST, and HE IS IN YOU, you have ALL YOU WILL EVER HAVE OF HIM and He promises that if you trust Him to fulfill His promises to you, HE WILL.

The everincreasing categories and the intricate vocabulary that is not in the bible IS NOT REQUIRED.

This poor perhaps PSYCHOPATHIC VICTIM is weighed down under an impossible weight of performance which seems to me akin to the GNOSTIC heresy....KNOWING this truth will atain God's approval, and only WE have it.

You can't get it from your Bible directly....

That should be a clue right there.....the reason is THAT IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE IN THE FIRST PLACE as described and as promised. It is CLOSE, but it is not there as given. It did not take much of a variance from simple Bible truth to begin with in order to create the chasm we see fully developed in Thieme's later teachings.

This article is an example of that chasm. It is far from Biblical truth.

And that is the real tragedy.

To be continued....

Sistersoap

GATE 9: PSYCHOPATHIC ARROGANCE
Thieme's article, continued

QUOTE:
{repeat from previous post}

7) Reaching the point of using the problem solving devices is what causes the break with unreality.

COMMENT:

Thieme declares here and elsewhere that KNOWING AND USING these "PROBLEM SOLVING DEVICES" remedy what is wrong....here, the "break with reality" of the psychopathic believer.

Let's start with a list of these miraculous devices:

PROBLEM SOLVING DEVICES - The problem solving devices include the rebound technique, the filling of the Spirit, the faith-rest drill, grace orientation, doctrinal orientation, a personal sense of destiny, personal love for God the Father, impersonal love for all mankind, +H or sharing the happiness of God, and occupation with Christ as the priority solution to life.

Some sub definitions:
REBOUND - The method of restoring the believer's fellowship with God through confessing personal sin privately to God the Father (1Jo 1:9); the means of going from carnality to spirituality. See SPIRITUALITY a. Restoration of fellowship. b. Recovery of the filling of the Holy Spirit. c. Reentry into the divine dynasphere. d. Recovery from cosmic influence, i.e., grieving the Holy Spirit in cosmic one, and quenching the Holy Spirit in cosmic two.

FILLING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT - An absolute status commanded to every church Age believer for the purpose of divine empowerment for the Christian life. This condition may be lost through sinning but is regained through naming of sins to God the Father. Spirituality or the filling of the Holy Spirit links salvation adjustment to the justice of God to maturity adjustment to the justice of God. To make it from salvation to maturity requires the filling of the Holy Spirit and the daily intake of Bible doctrine. We already have perfect righteousness judicially imputed at salvation. At the moment of salvation, the Holy Spirit indwells the body of the believer. Because the body is the headquarters of the old sin nature, the Holy Spirit sets up His headquarters in the body for counteraction. The battlefield is the soul. This counteraction is spearheaded by the filling of the Holy Spirit.

FAITH--REST DRILL - The faith-rest drill is one of the ten problem solving devices of the protocol plan of God for the Church. The ten problem solving devices include: rebound technique, the filling of the Holy Spirit, the faith-rest drill, grace orientation, doctrinal orientation, personal love for God the Father, impersonal love for all mankind, sharing the perfect happiness of God, having a personal sense of destiny, and occupation with the person of Jesus Christ. There are three categories related to the faith-rest drill: faith mechanics, faith functions, and faith execution. The faith-rest drill is that problem solving device used by believers in all dispensations for carrying and using the shield of faith.

GRACE ORIENTATION - Is being oriented to the grace policy of God through the inculcation of Bible doctrine under genuine humility and the teaching ministry of God the H.S. Grace orientation does not judge others and always offers other believers privacy while minding one's own business! Grace orientation offers to others the very grace that God offers to you!

DOCTRINAL ORIENTATION-
Let's assume that this means being "oriented" that is well indoctrinated to Thieme's doctrinal system, as I have not yet located a formal definition for this term.

PERSONAL SENSE OF DESTINY - God's meaning, purpose, and definition for the believer's life which becomes stronger as he progresses through the three stages of spiritual adulthood.

PERSONAL LOVE FOR GOD THE FATHER- have not yet located a formal definition for this phrase.

IMPERSONAL LOVE - Is a virtue love which emphasis the character of the subject (you) rather than the object being loved. Impersonal love emphasizes something in you rather than emphasizing something in the object of your love. A great example of impersonal love comes from God the Father in that when we were all yet sinners He loved us through the giving of His only begotten Son.

PLUS H says you are sharing the VERY HAPPINESS OF GOD...no formal definition yet.


OCCUPATION WITH CHRIST - Occupation with Christ is one of three problem solving devices related to virtue-love. Occupation with Christ is the maximum function of post-salvation epistemological rehabilitation; i.e., learning doctrine on a daily basis so that you advance to spiritual adulthood. This is the only way to execute God's plan, God's purpose, and God's will for your life. Occupation with Christ is defined as personal love for God the Son caused by post-salvation epistemological rehabilitation, which manifests the fact that the mystery doctrine of the Church Age has been and continues to be the #1 priority in your life.


SO , DOES THAT CLEAR THINGS UP FOR ANYONE?

Take the last item on this list, OCCUPATION WITH CHRIST. One would think judging from the ordinary meanings of the words involved, that this MIGHT mean that the believer is becoming so "in love" with Christ that nearly all his mental time and energy is consumed by contemplating his Lord. Instead we find NO MENTION OF CHRIST'S CHARACTER OR HIS WORK or his word. It referes AGAIN to POST-SALVATION "EPISTEMOLOGICAL" REHAB.....meaning that you go back to your "spiritual roots" in Thiemeology and dig back in with the basics, then further your studies. It all comes back down TO THAT DAILY TAPE OR BIBLE CLASS. If you could call it so, you could designate this as the PRIME DIRECTIVE of the Thieme universe:

THOU SHALT ATTEND BIBLE CLASS EACH AND EVERY DAY. This is the ONLY WAY TO GROW to Christian maturity, and it is the ONLY WAY TO RECOVER from loss of spiritual maturity.

TAKING IN BIBLE DOCTRINE DAILY IS THE ONLY WAY TO GROW or REHABILITATE as a Christian and the "manifestation" of this is THE MYSTERY DOCTRINE OF THE CHURCH AGE.

Let's see a def for MYSTERY DOCTRINE:
MYSTERY DOCTRINE - The word "mystery" refers to the doctrine for the great power experiment of the Church Age, called the mystery because it was never revealed in Old Testament times.

Now where is THIS IN THE BIBLE? As usual, Thieme has renamed Bible concepts with his own nomenclature, and this makes it impossible to find them in your Bible. Which he told you not to read for yourself.

GREAT POWER EXPERIMENT - Is the period of the incarnation of Christ in which the humanity of Christ set the precedence for the utilization of the divine power of God the Holy Spirit in living the Christian way of life. And every Church age believer can operate under the very same power that withstood the humanity of Christ! It was in the great power experiment of the Hypostatic union (i.e., Christ incarnate) that Christ proved this power valid and feasible to each Church age believer!

BUT LET'S OBSERVE THAT NO SCRIPTURE HAS BEEN CITED IN ANY OF THESE DEFINITIONS!

Instead, we find ourselves jumping from one Thieme definition to another round and round in order to understand what was said in one little paragraph in the original article! What does this tell us? It says that this is a MAN-MADE SYSTEM OF VOCABULARY AND "CATEGORIES" ALL RIGHT, and it is not in the Bible!

But this is the way for a believer to RECOVER FROM ARROGANT PSYCHOPATHY.....unless there is little truth in the problem or the answer given in this paper.

But these words and THEIR DEFINITIONS MEAN WHAT THIEME SAYS THEY MEAN BECAUSE HE CREATED THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

If you are trapped inside this system, this is why it seems so consistent to you and so inchmprehansible to your friends or family who are outside it. You have accepted Thieme's authority, his "expertise" and the fact that he writes the text, rewrites the Bible, and defines all the "technical" words. He does not eve say, this is my word for the Bible word......xxxxx FILL IN THE BLANK, and the reason he does not do that is that IN MOST CASES, THERE IS NO SUCH CORRESPONDENCE between his words and the vocabulary of the Bible! Have you never wondered WHY?

So according to this paper, learning all of the above and applying it correctly AS BIBLE DOCTRINE without a single reference to the BIBLE itself is the way to 'RECOVER" from the condition he calls arrogant psychopathy of the BELIEVER. And all this is while you are taking medication in order to not make trouble for those around you in your distress.


Is this a blessing or a burden?


QUOTE:
Q. There can be no break from unreality apart from objectivity and teachability associated with humility, enforced and/or genuine, for the function of the three R's--reception, retention, and recall.


COMMENT:
This basically means you can't get out of that unreality you suffer from in your rebellion against his Bible teaching unless you are HUMBLE, TEACHABLE, and ready and willing to RECEIVE, RETAIN AND RECALL what he teaches. This is just another way of saying the same thing he teaches the regular believer to advance to "maturity."

Why not just say that?

Or use DITTO?


QUOTE:
1) Regarding function inside the divine dynasphere, a believer’s function in gate #3 (humility gate associated with objectivity and teachability) and gate #4 (metabolization of doctrine gate) will eventuate in reaching gate #5, (personal love for God associated with spiritual self-esteem) and precipitate a complete break from unreality and initiate the beginning of true spiritual normality, including inner happiness (+H).

COMMENT:
Selected definitions of some of the above special words:

SPIRITUAL SELF-ESTEEM - Spiritual self-esteem is the foundation for the stability of the Christian life. Therefore, spiritual self-esteem is the believer's dependence on God's grace provision for stabilizing self and integrating self into the protocol plan of God.

PPOG - Pre-designed Plan of God, see "predestination".

PREDESTINATION - Predestination is one of the two computer assets in your portfolio of invisible assets; the other is election. Predestination is the provision of the sovereignty of God for you in eternity past to execute God's plan, purpose, and will for your life. Predestination is the work of God the Father in eternity past on behalf of every Church Age believer to execute God's plan, purpose, and will for his life. Therefore, predestination is the grace provision of God the Father for the royal family. Predestination is the provision of the sovereignty of God for the execution of the protocol plan of God. Predestination includes equal privilege and equal opportunity for the fulfillment of God's plan and purpose for your life in the Church Age.


COMMENT:
Get this....you have EQUAL PRIVILEGE and EQUAL OPPORTUNITY in fulfilling God's plan and purpose for your life, but elsewhere Thieme teaches such ubiblical concepts as "winner" believers and "loser" believers in ETERNITY! So not all are equal, some are more equal than others....and I would be very sure that the difference in his teaching consists of HOW MUCH OF HIS BIBLE DOCTRINE YOU SWALLOW AND "CORRECTLY" APPLY DAILY in your life.

Is this a blessing or a burden?

ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto

To be continued.....
Sistersoap

I am curious about this subject, is there anyone that is totally familiar with RB Thieme page to sum up the 139 pages for someone new? That is a whole bunch of reading haha. Thank you. Just a basic recap would be great!

Well start here.
Page 61

Look at Juker's testimony about Bob's ministry from the 60's through the 80's. I think he sums it up pretty well, when there are no checks and balances, (in the biblical realm, like at least 2 elders, plus 2 deacons) then a very destructive church can form.

I really don't think it started out as a personality cult, but it sure ended that way.

KCjones