This may be overkill, but I was reviewing ephesians’ posts, and just couldn’t resist another challenge to you Thieme followers out there:
[u:bfbcae5917]ephesians:[/u:bfbcae5917]
[i:bfbcae5917]But you say “whenever we fall into sin, we need to admit we’ve sinned”, but then when 1 John 1:9 states this [b:bfbcae5917]very [/b:bfbcae5917]idea, you say no, that’s not what that verse says, even though, well, that’s what it says. [/i:bfbcae5917][02/18]
My complete statement was: “Obviously, whenever we fall into sin, we need to admit we’ve sinned and repent.” A believer’s repentance from sins is a very simple, basic Biblical principle known and understood by Christians throughout history, and is very different from this constant, moment-to-moment “naming and citing” of all sins to God in prayer, which was never taught for nearly 2,000 years of church history. And 1 John 1:9 does not state “this very idea” at all—this verse is not dealing with a believer repenting from his sins in his ongoing spiritual walk. The direct result of the confession of sins in 1 John 1:9 is that God is “faithful and just to [b:bfbcae5917]forgive us our sins[/b:bfbcae5917], and to [b:bfbcae5917]cleanse us from all unrighteousness[/b:bfbcae5917].” And it is very clear from Matt 3 and Mark 1 that confession of sins can be used in reference to an unbeliever confessing his sinful state before God and his need of the Savior (a general confession of one’s sins). Yet ephesians refuses to acknowledge this. And, as I thoroughly covered in my 02/17 and 03/24 posts to Galiban, the entire context of 1 John 1 is dealing with the Person and Work of Christ and being saved versus being lost, not spirituality and carnality. Spirituality versus carnality is very clearly described in 1 Cor 3, a passage that none of the Thieme followers on this forum have been willing to address.
[b:bfbcae5917]1 John 1:9[/b:bfbcae5917] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
You Thieme followers claim to believe in the complete forgiveness of our sins at salvation*, but when 1 John 1:9 states this very idea, you say no, that’s not what the verse says, even though, well, that’s what it says. You say this verse has to mean something completely different from all the other NT scriptures on forgiveness of sins and cleansing from unrighteousness, ignoring all evidence to the contrary (see my 04/22 post addressed to GeneZ).
Ephesians has refused to even respond to my repeated challenges concerning Thieme’s heresy concerning forgiveness of sins, the alleged connection between 1 John 1:9 and Eph 5:18, the alleged connection between “losing fellowship” and grieving or quenching the Spirit, the alleged connection between “regaining fellowship” and putting on the new man, the description of spirituality and carnality in 1 Cor 3, etc., etc. He stubbornly clings to his Thiemite interpretation of his favorite verse, 1 John 1:9, and closes his eyes to everything else.
While I’m at it, a few more comments on brainout’s empty speculations on “rebound” ([u:bfbcae5917][
www.geocities.com][/u:bfbcae5917]):
[i:bfbcae5917]This mandate to use 1Jn1:9 is pretty easy to trace in the Bible, huh. It’s got a consistent usage history, huh. And it’s pretty simple to use, huh: takes a nanosecond when irritated in traffic, feeling afraid or guilty, and wham! Pure again. Until the next sin. Which makes it pretty doggone important to know, huh.[/i:bfbcae5917]
Huh? What? Constantly confessing all one’s sins to “regain fellowship” is “easy to trace in the Bible, huh”? Where is there even one scripture that says this? Brainout, with all his ramblings about the Septuagint, and koine Greek and Hebrew, has not been able to show us one. “It’s got a consistent usage [in] history, huh”? When? Where? Where in the entire history of God’s people do we ever find this constant, non-stop confession of all sins to God? It’s really “doggone important to know, huh”? Then why doesn’t the Word of God simply tell us this even once?
[i:bfbcae5917]So in 2000 years, where's the teaching on this vital [u:bfbcae5917]connection[/u:bfbcae5917] between 1Jn1:9 and Filling?[/i:bfbcae5917]
I couldn’t have asked the question any better myself. In 2,000 years there isn’t the slightest hint of evidence of any Christians who taught this “connection between 1Jn1:9 and Filling.” After asking the question, brainout tries to convince us once again how indispensable the Septuagint is and cites Gen 3:12-13 and Isa 53:10-11, which don’t even come close to saying, “Confess your sins to be restored to fellowship” in Greek, Hebrew, English, or any other language. This “connection” certainly is “vital” to Thieme’s doctrine. But neither Thieme nor his followers have ever been able to show any support for this “connection” from Scripture.
[u:bfbcae5917]ephesians:[/u:bfbcae5917]
[i:bfbcae5917]This person is a long-time student of Thieme’s. Anything I could write concerning such matters as the Filling of the Spirit, or Right-Pastor, etc. would only be copying this persons thoughts, and they do a far better job of clarifying these things than I ever could.[/i:bfbcae5917] [02/18]
If that’s the case, ephesians has some real problems.
Also, on 03/01, Galiban wrote: [i:bfbcae5917]“We are to learn Theology from our church, not a seminary. Show me scriptures that shows a Pastor Teacher is to study at a college or seminary.” [/i:bfbcae5917]
On 05/15, replied: “I thought a pastor had to be Greek scholar? Isn’t Thieme adamant that a pastor has to be educated in Greek before he can teach the Bible? You can’t have it both ways, Galiban. You can’t say a pastor doesn’t need a Bible college and then turn around and say he has to be a Greek scholar. Either he needs a Bible college education or he doesn’t.”
Not only did Galiban fail to respond to my rebuttal, he also contradicted ephesians, his fellow Thieme follower. Let’s compare these two statements:
[u:bfbcae5917]ephesians:[/u:bfbcae5917]
[i:bfbcae5917]And there is a big difference between a guy with a pointy hat telling us what something means, and somebody who has had [b:bfbcae5917]9 years of school[/b:bfbcae5917], exegeting the Greek, and teaching us in a way that our rational minds can see makes sense and pieces together.[/i:bfbcae5917] [01/26]
[u:bfbcae5917]Galiban:[/u:bfbcae5917]
[i:bfbcae5917]We are to learn Theology from our church, not a seminary. Show me scriptures that shows a Pastor Teacher is to study at a [b:bfbcae5917]college or seminary[/b:bfbcae5917].[/i:bfbcae5917] [03/01]
Could any of the Thieme followers please clarify this for me? Because obviously they can’t both be right.
Liberty
____________________
* Galiban and GeneZ have claimed to believe this in their posts, although they contradict themselves by saying we still need future forgiveness. Ephesians, however, has never told us whether or not he accepts Thieme’s heresy of denying the forgiveness of all sins at salvation. [/size:bfbcae5917]