To the Forum:

One of the best descriptions that I have seen for Thieme using hypnosis comes from a write-in to Dennis' website on page 15.

"... 4. In looking at the Cult from a psychological perspective, let me share what I have learned from my clients as well as other professionals who have treated Berachah people. I believe that the reason cults/thought reform is so effective is that it manipulates the dissociative process—also called "trance logic" in professional terms. For example, why would Bob use the same verse to begin every session? One of my colleagues, not a Christian made this observation. "When the Bible class begins it seems that all the parishioners go into a trance". What is it about the words, "The Word of God is alive and powerful . . . "? A hypnotic state can be induced very readily in most people. In hypnosis, a therapist can even get his client to go into a hypnotic or dissociative state quicker than usual by using voice tone and repetitive words and phrases. This is called a "rapid induction". It is also known in this field that a trance state can be induced more rapidly and with greater control when other factors are used in conjunction with the hypnosis like fear and guilt or other strong and negative emotional states. How many of us were there night after night with the intention of staying focused and not moving for fear of reprimand? Another reinforcer of the trance or dissociative state is the "absolute fixation of attention on the speaker w/ no opportunity for critical analysis (that is, questions or any challenge or interruption of the dictated message). Lastly, the trance state is even more affected, when the lack of critical analysis includes all the above plus the transference of the thoughts from the verbal to written (Singer)...."

Truthtesty

To the Forum:

What was that excuse Thieme gave for no longer allowing questions during "class"?

Truthtesty

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brainout
Testy, don't fall over now -- I'm going to AGREE with you on two things.
1. Did Thieme teach Love is the Integrity of God back in the late 1970's? Yes. He just didn't say it in quite the same fashion as he later came to say. Ephesians 1:3 and you had a go-round about that, but you're right -- he did talk about the subjective and objective genitive back in the 77Romans tapes, beginning about Romans 5:5 (where that construction exists). So you are vindicated. I already explained this to Ephesians 1:3.

Yes, thanks brainout for bringing that up. I owe you an apology, Testy. Though Thieme never did state "the Love of God is His integrity" as such in the late '70's, brainout was definitely kind enough to show exactly how what Thieme was teaching in the '70s ties into the 2000 series.

The core argument we were having, however, was one of Thieme's ongoing learning as a student of the Word. From the '70s to the 00's is a longggg time (as brainout has pointed out), and there have been numerous revisions during that time.

Nobody is perfect, we all learn every day. The pastor is not infallible, he is a student of the Word just as those he teaches are students. Should a professor at an ivy league school with 30 years tenure be condemned for what he taught in high school? We have to look at the whole picture.

The great thing to come about as a result of this forum is that people can be free to make up their minds, that's why I urged people to at least listen and study for themselves. They can make up their own minds as the study materials are free. Not trying to evangelize here, just keep things balanced.

In grace,
Ephesians1:3

Genez,

1st of all those posts were posted to a different forum. I was speaking to people that I thought were extremist cultic christians.

Genez quote

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Folks? Who can see what this persons thinks like? And? He is one to tell us which Christian leader is no good???

I can tell you what a cult is and my relationship with God does not include you.

You love your beloved Saul/Paul who used to MURDER christians. I haven't resorted to that. Some of the REAL apostles turned on Jesus to his face!

However, would I beat a cultic christian even more sensless? Yes I would. For example, If I would have been there, I would have used all means including "deadly force" to stop Andrea Yates from killing her children. You want to pretend that there nothing wrong Thieme, that's your irresponsibility.

You want to see cold and calloused?

[edition.cnn.com]

I don't have time but look at the pictures of the Waco nut, David Koresh who allowed those children to die when he could have let them go.

Also, Timothy McVeigh, was member of the "christian identity" cult, also killed many children. Look at the pictures of the Oklahoma city bombing

How many Thiemites are ex-Navy Seals, ex-Rangers and ex-Marine Corps Recon now working as mercenaries for Blackwater in the Middle East? Those Thiemite mercs aren't killing Muslims just for money they are killing them because Thieme said ALL MUSLIMS ARE SATANIC.

I had the guts to own up, when I could have whimpered like you -
genez quote

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"[b:87faa8fb0f]I do not know what that is from[/b:87faa8fb0f]. Since you do not give the forum and post? I have no idea. Do a search. [b:87faa8fb0f]There is more than one GeneZ, out there.[/b:87faa8fb0f] If you refuse to give a link? I have no idea what that's about. I have no idea if it has not been edited, either.

Oh yeah right "genez" is such a common name.

I am not requiring people to submit to my authority. I am not creating cults. I am warning people about cults. Thieme meets the criteria. So, why don't you cut me some friggin slack?

Truthtesty

To the forum:

genez quote:

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There is no charge for any material from R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries. Anyone who desires Bible teaching can receive our books and recordings without obligation. God provides Bible doctrine. We wish to reflect His grace.

R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries is a grace ministry and operates entirely on voluntary contributions. There is no price list for books or recordings. No money is requested. When gratitude for the Word of God motivates a believer to give, he has the privilege of contributing to the dissemination of Bible doctrine.

So? Kim jong Il of North Korea offers free indoctrination tapes too.

Truthtesty

To the forum:

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brainout
Do we want to know GOD, or not? If so, then this preoccupation with people must eventually give way to that desire. Ain't gonna happen, with the pro- folks defending and the anti- folks prosecuting. So I'm outta this forum.

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HappyAndFree
God has been so good to me. I may not be a genius, but God loves me, and He has been by my side during this entire journey. Back in the day, at Berachah, so many times I prayed to God, begging Him to "Please, help me believe this (fill-in-the-blank-Thieme dogma of the day)". I didn't want to reject the truth. I didn't want to get "scar tissue on my soul". I still don't want to reject the truth. God knows this. He is faithful to anyone who who seeks Him. He led me away from Berachah and into a joyous and intimate relationship with HIM!

To brainout:

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brainout
I think I need to leave this forum[/qoute]

Godspeed

To the Forum:

Where's all the written Thieme documentation on the internet?

Truthtesty

To the Forum:

Forum quote

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Another theme of both your comments had to do with the topic of whether you can read Bible on your own -- HenryL, maintaining that Thieme imposed a cult-like popish stance, and GeneZ, that Thieme's teaching enables you to READ BIBLE FOR YOURSELF as you mature.

Thieme contributed DIRECTLY to Thiemites lack of confidence in studying the bible for themselves and the cultic emotional dependence on him.

Per Dr. Wall's dissertation:

"Phil 3 via 11 Timothy 4:8 Doc/Surpassing Grace (SG3),” Philippians, magnetic tape reproduction of message preached at Berachah Church, Houston, Texas, 26 December 1975. He says that if you read the Bible, "you're not going to get anything out of it ... you'd better come to Bible class . . . or listen to a tape." See also Thieme, Super-grace, p. 1.

When I was forced to attend I heard this also.

Also, Thieme may have not directly said you have make the young adults attend class, but he indirectly Thieme definitely commanded that the young adults must strictly obey thier parents. If the parents are duped and cultic and they force thier children attend against thier will, then the parents have become the Lieutenants of Thieme's delegated authority. Thus the cultic abuse takes place.

The same thing occurs with crime. If a group commits a crimnal act against someone and there are bystanders watching, the bystanders who do nothing are just as guilty of the crime.


Truthtesty

To the Forum:

genez quote:

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"The word translated "strait" could be translated as 'strict."

Strait coul also be translated

1 archaic : STRICT, RIGOROUS
2 archaic a : NARROW b : limited in space or time c : closely fitting : CONSTRICTED, TIGHT
3 a : causing distress : DIFFICULT b : limited as to means or resources

[www.m-w.com]


Truthtesty

To Forum:

I don't recall Thieme saying "Don't force your young adults to come to Berachah, either"

Truthtesty