To Forum:

BUT according to Thieme, you were supposed to distance yourself from those who wouldn't listen to Thieme. So the parent either had to either kick thier young adults out of the house before they were ready for the world or force them to listen Thieme.

Truthtesty

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Truthtesty
Genez,

1st of all those posts were posted to a different forum. I was speaking to people that I thought were extremist cultic christians.

Is that your final answer? Is this where the spin hits the wall? This is really sad if what you said can get off the hook that easy. You belittled the virgin birth as being a myth. You tight here, claim Paul's writings are anti biblical.

Sir? You must have some here hypnotized to believe you in what you just claimed, and to think you are pro Christianity. Just like you try to claim Thieme hypnotized? Some here will believe you in spite of all the evidence. Why? They are hypnotized by a mutual hatred for Thieme that must be satisfied.

You are growing old fast. Denial is a terrible thing. You deny what your intentions are. And, others deny it along with you so that your mutual enemy can be set up for attack. Its sick. (and, it can cause a nervous breakdown down the road if you fail to gather momentum by winning over others). Then, if that happens? You can claim Thieme is a cult because he drove you into therapy, perhaps? And, those who have no clue as to what really happened may begin to believe you?

Many of churches I attended (all different affiliations) always had its members who needed therapy and were having problems about Christianity. It is no sign of there being a cult. They want to blame the church? It still does not make it a cult. I do not say this for the sake of those reading this who have common sense, as if your argument threatens Thieme. It does not. I say this so that maybe reality will hit you over the head and you will stop acting like a malicious, vengeful, obsessive, fool. You crush Christianity under your heel one second, then turn around and advise Christians what to look out for? I guess there are enough out there who are also driven by the same impulse as to give you self justification to keep spewing your lies, because someone will believe it.

You state Paul was apostate. That the Bible was created by a man (Constantine) driven by cults. Then? You trurn around and praise Dr. Wall who used Paul's writings and the book put together by Constantine, to put down Thieme? Hello?

You need a vacation. You need to get away for some quite time with God. Your game is up. From here on in all you will be able to do is to deny and spin away with rationalizations why you can say you hate Christianity and deny the virgin birth (which is a sign of a cult, by the way) and at the same time claim to be a hero of Christianity.

You're in trouble by shooting yourself in the foot. While your foot was in your mouth.

You have imploded mentally. You want to keep ranting? From here on in it will be VERY EASY to discredit your opinion by simply quoting your own words. I will simply keep throwing yourself in front of yourself as a means to keep you from your obsessive desire. After a while who will listen to you? A few? And? Then as a clique you will be exposed for your collective audacious denial of reality.


All anyone needs to do is to order a few tapes (or books) from Thiemes ministry FREE OF CHARGE! (for their financial gain, like all cults do) and see and hear for themselves who has the voice of reason. You won't stand a chance sir.

But, this does serve a good purpose. It exposes those who scream cult are not always to be heeded. You are a fine example of being a walking contradiction and exposing yourself through denial of what is obvious to all who read your words. I hope it is noticed by the moderators here who see how this forum can be misused to slander and malign someone who is simply doing his job as unto the LORD. For those who do their job as unto the Lord faithfully? They will be lied about, just like Jesus said. So, the moderators here should start doing their own research before allowing the purpose of this forum from being exploited. You are Christian hater. You deny the virgin birth. You think Paul's writings are apostate!

Moderators? Do you ever have a say in balancing out an attack which was allowed to go on? And, the one attacking is exposed for being anti-Christian to begin with?


Here is an example of other claimed cults


[www.satansrapture.com]


Billy Graham, Rev. Jerry Falwell, Pat Roberston, John Hagee, Charles Stanley, Tim La Haye, Jack Van Impe, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Joyce Myers and now Rick Warren is the newest WOLF IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: PROMOTING SATAN'S LIES FOR WEALTH & FAME.[/size:424fb0fdc3][/color:424fb0fdc3]

This place can be easily abused by any nut case that makes a case, because those listening do not know the facts. Get a few to agree? And, we have a cult.

Get a few of Thiemes tapes ... his basic series. Keep an open mind before one is condemned by a nut case. I have seen many ministries. There are always some who are mentally unstable sitting in the pews. The Pulpit did not cause the weakness. Yet, because of mental instability, the pulpit ends up getting blamed.

Yet! There are real cults out there. You want to be used to blur the good in with the bad?

Its the Lord we all answer to. Now is the time to reveal one's integrity.. or lack of it. We all have been given assignments by the Lord. Assignments that will be used of God to reveal our hearts before Him.

Having a gift for a good cause, does not mean one is intrinsically good. Even certain police take bribes to allow for crime to prevail. The gift does not make us good before God. The gift was given to reveal if we will be good before God. Having a forum to expose cults is a gift. It does not mean one has God's approval automatically because of being given such a responsibility. There needs to be a system here to check false accusations, as well. When someone claims to hate Christianity? Claims Paul was an apostate? He is to be given the floor to attack men of good standing before the LORD? Without any form of moderation?

In Christ, GeneZ

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Truthtesty
To Forum:

BUT according to Thieme, you were supposed to distance yourself from those who wouldn't listen to Thieme. So the parent either had to either kick thier young adults out of the house before they were ready for the world or force them to listen Thieme.

Truthtesty

Lie # 5967. Message #? Its all on tape. Produce chapter and verse, Mr. Hearsay.

What could one want more of? Produce all the messages on tape! Thieme's own voice. Give message and series numbers. We can all get the tapes and see you are not distorting and lying. You have such a wonderful opportunity to expose a horrible cult! And? Your leaving it all based upon your word alone? The beauty of it, is all that Thieme taught has been captured on tape. All you need to do? Is to get the tapes. Compile them. Makes sure you provide series and lesson number so it can be verified you did not do any editing? And, you can sit back and let Thieme condemn himself!

Why not? Just call Berachah. Request a topic. Tell them its from a certain year. And, they will do all the research for you... free of charge!

And send you the tapes! What a case you are missing! Kind of like me being able to use your own words to show what you really represent. See how it works? Open and closed case! Try it! :lol:

In the one born of a virgin, GeneZ

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How does that make him a cult, even if it were false doctrine?

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Many independent churches place the authority of the church in the pastor.

I guess you'll just have to wait until God, dings it through your thick skull. I have already explained it many times.

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I think you are really creating a straw man in attempts to squeeze RBT into a box. It does not matter if its a true doctrine or not. It does not make anyone a cult in itself.

Ok. If that's what you think then prove it. Otherwise, your just opining.

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Even if it were not a true doctrine? It still does not make him a cult.

Everybody getting this? Do you see how evasive this person is?

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He said on numerous occasions that he was not the right pastor for them. That they may learn a few things from him, but they should find another church where they could feel [b:b34a844a6f][u:b34a844a6f]comfortable.[/u:b34a844a6f][/b:b34a844a6f]

Comfortable? This is interesting especially when genez just made an interpretation of "STRAIT" as STRICT.

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But? For the irate ones who were self righteous? He had more choice words for them. For he did not take any guff. That always shocked the self righteous types. Here is one that we can not intimidate and bully!

This is a joke!. Thieme was a wimp, he just had the HOUSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT TO BACK HIM UP! LOL. Thieme was like the wee little man behing the curtain in the "Wizard of OZ" I have a friend who wrote Thieme a letter in 1982. He challenged Thieme to trial by combat. You know what Thieme's HEROIC response was? Thieme read the letter to the Berachah congregation (where my friend's family still attended) in an attempt to embarrass THE FAMILY of my friend. The mother and sisters of my friend cried. [b:b34a844a6f][u:b34a844a6f]T H A T[/u:b34a844a6f][/b:b34a844a6f] IS YOUR "DOESN'T TAKE ANY GUFF" THIEME. Thieme also got his attorney to look at the letter to see if he could file CHARGES! My friend was too smart and worded it just right. No charges were filed. Thieme was a gutless coward like many cheeseballs who cheese thier way through life, grabbing "positions of authority" and pervertedly enjoying positions of authority over people like the BTK killer enjoyed. Yeah Thieme was "tough" though when the Houston police Department had his back. Oh yeah real tough lol. AND IT WAS THIEME THAT WAS SHOCKED THAT DAY, PAL.

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I have been around that kind and they were downright nasty to be around when they did not agree with your thinking. They were kind of like how you are here towards those who do not agree with you.

Oh? and you have been a peach here, haven't you?

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Like how you treated those in the History Channel forum who you perceived as being Christian.

Don't mischaracterize me. I said I thought they were CULTIC christians. One thing that happened, and everybody can see this too, is the difference in the way you reacted when you thought you had something to hide and they way I reacted here, from the History Channel revelation. What it showed was that you were evasive when you thought you were caught doing something wrong. And my reaction showed that even though it didn't look good on me I STILL TOLD THE TRUTH! So who is more credible about Thieme? Someone who runs from telling the truth or someone who tells the truth even though it looks bad? People will decide for themselves. Besides I thought Thieme was supposed to have trained you to have character? Oh well just goes to show, some things can't be trained, they need to be learned.

Truthtesty

Free and Happy thank you for the kind words.

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Truthtesty

Thieme contributed DIRECTLY to Thiemites lack of confidence in studying the bible for themselves and the cultic emotional dependence on him.

What he did was to knock out how cults do get started! He demanded an orthodox approach to Bible interpretation before all else. You say, he did not encourage study for oneself? It only motivated me to spend hundreds of dollars in securing Bible reference books to build up a private library. Also, to spend hours of researching out what he said wherever I found a Christian book store in my travels.

I know of others who also became highly motivated to deepen their study.

What he always warned us? He always warned that the Bible is not a book that everyone can simply pick up and study for themselves and come up with an accurate understanding.

That they should learn from those FIRST who have the gift to teach. That after they grow in understanding? [b:5ed9bb045a]THEN they will be able to pick up the Bible for their own study, and do it well. [/b:5ed9bb045a] How come you always leave off the last part of what he taught?

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Per Dr. Wall's dissertation:

"Phil 3 via 11 Timothy 4:8 Doc/Surpassing Grace (SG3),” Philippians, magnetic tape reproduction of message preached at Berachah Church, Houston, Texas, 26 December 1975. He says that if you read the Bible, "you're not going to get anything out of it ... you'd better come to Bible class . . . or listen to a tape." See also Thieme, Super-grace, p. 1.

No Good. Uhh uhh. Philippians 3, and 2 Timothy? Were both written by that heretic, Paul. Remember? You think Paul is anti-Christ? A part of a collection of writtings put together by a cultists emperor?

How can you slam Paul as being anti-Christ one second? And, then use Paul for proof of being right the next? TT? You are in a quagmire of your own making.

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When I was forced to attend I heard this also.

I was forced to attend Synagogue as a child by my parents. Almost all children are forced to attend the house of their parents worship as a child. So?

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Also, Thieme may have not directly said you have make the young adults attend class, but he indirectly Thieme definitely commanded that the young adults must strictly obey thier parents.

OH! So if he told the children to disobey? Then he would not have been a cult?! :lol:

Sorry... That was sound Biblical teaching that you are distorting.

Ephesians 6:1
Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.[/size:5ed9bb045a]

Colossians 3:20
Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.[/size:5ed9bb045a]

Now? If your parents abused that Scripture? Is it Thieme's fault for teaching what the Bible says? Wake up!

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If the parents are duped and cultic and they force thier children attend against thier will, then the parents have become the Lieutenants of Thieme's delegated authority. Thus the cultic abuse takes place.

My parents made me attend Synagogue against my will. I know of Catholics who were done the same. All cults? Are we all ruined for life? No. For we got a life after we were free to do as we wished after becoming young adults.

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The same thing occurs with crime. If a group commits a crimnal act against someone and there are bystanders watching, the bystanders who do nothing are just as guilty of the crime.

I think you are suffering with personal issues that you are trying to find blame for which is misguided. You claim to be low level genius? The higher your IQ, the more suffering one must face in this life before he can benefit from what God has granted you. Those who are given much. Much more will be required of him. I have been informed of also having a high IQ. My suffering was private and not explainable to others. Today I am extremely happy.

While suffering, it was so great that I saw no way out. Then I found the Word of God and made it my life. I also know I could have ended up in therapy, blaming others for my suffering and never knowing that they were not the reason.

Now? If Thieme advocated incest between parent and child? Or, advocated abusive techniques in disciplining a child? Then Thieme and the parents would be to blame. But? I came from a happy home. My parents loved each other until death. Yet, while I was suffering, I was able to find reasons to blame my upbringing for my suffering. Funny how it works.

Now? If you were an unbeliever? Then you could have used that intelligence for your own pleasure by getting ahead of others. The wicked prosper without suffering in many cases.

But? When God has his hand on you? Unless he raises you up? You will suffer terribly and not get ahead in life. That is why many have lots of money yet lack happiness. That is why Thieme always taught that God wants to give the believer the capacity for the blessing, before he will give the blessing. If not? The blessings can make one very miserable. I have witnessed to this as being true a good number of times with others.

I believe you need a long vacation. A rest.

In Christ, GeneZ

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Truthtesty

Comfortable? This is interesting especially when genez just made an interpretation of "STRAIT" as STRICT.

I was comfortable there. For I found it comforting that this man was strict about teaching the Word of God accurately. That he was not patronizing people by telling them convenient mistruths as to try and win them over. Thieme always took the attitude. "Here it is. Take it, or leave it. I am not going to tell you what you want to hear if the Word of God states what you do not want to hear." Period.

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This is a joke!. Thieme was a wimp, he just had the HOUSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT TO BACK HIM UP! LOL.

You mean the same police department that had training in cult practices? During that time parents were kidnapping their children out of cults?

Cults were everywhere and everyone was conscious of this. The police would need training in this area to some extent. Just do a web search for "Police + training + cults." They even have some if you include Houston in with the search. Law enforcement was keenly interested in cultic activity at that time. Jim Jones, etc... was in the news. The very fact he had the police and high ranking military on his side speaks volumes.

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Thieme was like the wee little man behing the curtain in the "Wizard of OZ" I have a friend who wrote Thieme a letter in 1982. He challenged Thieme to trial by combat. You know what Thieme's HEROIC response was? Thieme read the letter to the Berachah congregation (where my friend's family still attended) in an attempt to embarrass THE FAMILY of my friend. The mother and sisters of my friend cried. [b:f8afc85d0f][u:f8afc85d0f]T H A T[/u:f8afc85d0f][/b:f8afc85d0f] IS YOUR "DOESN'T TAKE ANY GUFF" THIEME. Thieme also got his attorney to look at the letter to see if he could file CHARGES!

Your friend was right? Threatening letters like that? You do seek legal council. Your friend could have been sued.

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My friend was too smart and worded it just right. No charges were filed.

So? You have always been a trouble maker. Nice to know the friends you keep.

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Thieme was a gutless coward like many cheeseballs who cheese thier way through life, grabbing "positions of authority" and pervertedly enjoying positions of authority over people like the BTK killer enjoyed. Yeah Thieme was "tough" though when the Houston police Department had his back. Oh yeah real tough lol. AND IT WAS THIEME THAT WAS SHOCKED THAT DAY, PAL.

Wonder why the Houston Police respected him so highly? At a time when many were calling the police "pigs." All authority was under attack at that time in American history. At your age. You were probably born into it. You have no idea how authority was once respected in this nation.

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Don't mischaracterize me. I said I thought they were CULTIC christians.

Really? believing in the virgin birth is cultic?

(how does your foot taste? The one that's always in your mouth?)

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One thing that happened, and everybody can see this too, is the difference in the way you reacted when you thought you had something to hide and they way I reacted here, from the History Channel revelation.

True! For you did not provide any sources... You just through out alleged quotes of mine. Once you did provide the source? And, others could see the entire thread in its context? I welcomed others to view. You? You deny your intent, and I did provide links from the start.

You believe there was no virgin birth. That, is a sign of a cult, by the way.

And? You claim Paul was a false apostle.

That ground you are standing on? Is it shaking? Or, is it your knees?


There is no hope in christianity becuase it does not exist. It was a virgin-saviour bedtime story that went from Egypt to Persia and throughout the regions of that time. The Gnostic christians were persecuted in the 1st century becuase the knew christianity was a myth. The Literalist christians - Roman orthodox christians were stupid enough to take it literally. The Romans caught on that it was a religious way to subjugate and persecute people by getting them to do it to themselves - self-persecution - through thier own faith. Wow what a slick way to control people! The Romans were the 1st fanatics of christianity. Just look at the blood lust of the Coliseum. And now the modern day fanatics easily slip in and control.[/size:f8afc85d0f]


[tinyurl.com]



That was directed only towards cultic Christians? LOL!


Here's a little barbecue sauce for that foot of your's.


You must be getting very tired of its tastes by now.

In Christ, GeneZ

GeneZ and TruthTesy:

Please calm down. Let's not have name calling and flaming here, which is against the rules.

Be civil.

GeneZ:

I realize that you greatly respect and admire Thieme.

But what standing does he actually have as a theologian?

It seems he is not considered a biblical scholar by any mainstream scholars at an accredited university or college relgious studies program.

Is he well thought of at Baylor, Fuller or Moody?

Isn't Thieme considered something of a fringe thinker with his own idiosyncratic interpretation of scripture?

Please understand that by attacking Truthtesty personally you won't change the facts about Theime.

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rrmoderator
GeneZ:

I realize that you greatly respect and admire Thieme.

But what standing does he actually have as a theologian?

He's a pastor. Why are you elevating to such a high level? What warrants calling him a theologian?

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It seems he is not considered a biblical scholar by any mainstream scholars at an accredited university or college relgious studies program.

He was a pastor of a church.

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Is he well thought of at Baylor, Fuller or Moody?

And? Why should they be interested in a pastor of a Church in Houston? Teaching his congregation?

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Isn't Thieme considered something of a fringe thinker with his own idiosyncratic interpretation of scripture?

Yes, and no. After visiting libraries at two Bible Colleges and searching through the reference books? I found that what appeared to be 'fringe thinking' was not something he created on his own. I have seen writings by rabbis from the Hebrew they understood very well, and were in agreement with some of the teachings others get upset about. Namely, the teaching on the Blood of Christ, and when the soul is imputed to the body. Yet, those reference books never get noticed. They sit on the shelf and get used to look up meanings, but applications are not given. Thieme gives the applications, and suddenly those who do not verify automatically gat disturbed because it is not commonly understood.

And, some of his so called fringe teachings are no more than things the Bible teaches that without exegesis one will not see in English translations.

One of my early contacts was with a teacher at a Bible College. He was at one time a Professor of Ancinet Languages at Harvard. He passionately disgreed with some of Thieme's conclusions ... but he did not disagree on the exegesis that led to the conclusion. Professor Stan Ashby. He recommended Thieme to me one night before a church service was to begin. I did not start listening to Thieme on a regular basis until later on. I did not start on Thieme because of his recommendation. I found Thieme through prayer. I guess I prayed to the devil in Jesus name?

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Please understand that by attacking Truthtesty personally you won't change the facts about Theime.

I realize that. But I wish to take the wind out of his sails because his approach and attitude needs to be toned down. His sense of overconfidence needs balancing. His attacks need to be shown from what kind of person he is.

I have spoken over the years to pastors about Thieme. Some appreciate him. Some want nothing to do with him. I did not try to convince those who were negative towards him to listen to what he has to say. Some take a liking to him. Some hate him after listen for the first two minutes.

Like Thieme said on numerous occasions. He was not raised up by God , like any other teacher, to be meant for everyone to listen to.

If I am led of the Spirit? Then I was led to Thieme. I lived in Massachusettes when God answered my prayer. Thieme was in Houston.

If I prayed for deeper truth? And was led to Thieme? And he is all some here claim him to be? Then I am of the Devil. That's what some here are trying to tell me if they know it or not.

Yet, I can converse with many pastors on a relaxed level. I have had fellowship with Baptist pastors. What matters, is that one is not blinded by denominational rigidity, and the Word of God is preeminent above all else. For if we think that all to be known from Scripture is already known? Then they should join the RCC where they think all insight ended with the early church fathers.

Other than that? What can I say?

Grace and peace, GeneZ