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HappyAndFree
GeneZ,

You are insignificant and irrelevent as far as I'm concerned. You have demonstrated your ignorance of God and His way throughout your posts.

You think you know so much, but you know so little.

:lol: Thanks!

Now, go follow your leader! :lol:


I've seen everything.. now! GeneZ

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brainout
GeneZ, the charges made against Thieme both here and elsewhere are very narrowly restricted to old material which is construed as pejorative. So the accusers are open to the charge of not using current data, of sleighting the facts. Ok, but what if they had current data? Then they could not be accused of at least the lacunae in their factline.

I used to work for a world renown chef. He is a Christian. He listened to a few of "Teems" (how he pronounced it) tapes. He saw bickering even back then with certain members of a local Bible college trying to bad mouth RBT. Its not a new thing. Getting bad mouthed is the price one must pay for being a genuine faithful follower of Christ. And? As well, for following cults. Being bad mouthed and being called a cult is nothing in itself. Both the good, and the bad, will be blurred together by the cosmic system.

Well? This chef told me one day the following.

They are all jealous of Thieme. (mind you, this man did not deceide to become a follower of Thieme). He said he saw the same type of competition and jealousy with other chefs when he was working his way up. The same type of bad mouthing, etc.

Its part of the package. Its to be expected. And, of course. This is to give no excuse to cults who do get bad mouthed.



[b:23d02c6aab]Luke 6:22-23 (New International Version)[/b:23d02c6aab][/color:23d02c6aab]
"Blessed are you when men hate you,
when they exclude you and insult you
and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.

"Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven. For that is how their fathers treated the prophets.[/size:23d02c6aab][/color:23d02c6aab]

Why couldn't men back then see the greatness of the prophets? They murdered them if they could.

So? If Thieme is as good as those who know him to be? Its no wonder these types of things will be said about him. Including being a cult. If Thieme is truly a great teacher? Then, what we see here is supposed to happen. Their loss.

Just look at what we are dealing with! One here, who[b:23d02c6aab] openly despises Christianity[/b:23d02c6aab]! And? What do we see? Those who profess to be true to Christianity? Applauding him.

Utter nonsense. They do not know what drives them. We who do have doctrine, should know better. And, we do.

Grace and peace, GeneZ

To the Forum:

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I have seven copies of Dr. Wall's dissertation on my computer from a long time ago, both old and new versions. It was 1978, and you have to ask yourself why DTS would grant a doctorate in theology for a dissertation which is NOT about God.

The doctrines discussed in the dissertation are discussed at the most elementary level, a kind of kindergarten version of GOD101. This isn't to say that Dr. Wall was bad. It is to say that a kind of adikia exists when a seminary wants a dissertation on a mere human being for a doctorate which is supposed to represent competence in the STUDY OF GOD

Would you be so kind as to e-mail me all copies? Truthtesty@hotmail.com
I thought Dr. Wall only had 1 doctorate. Before anyone asks themselves anything they need to see proof of such an accusation, otherwise it is only hearsay. Thieme broke off his relationship with Dallas Theological Seminary. The very seminary Thieme used to profess and advertise his ability in Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. (Note: Thieme turns his back on DTS) The very seminary where Thieme earned his Masters in 1949 which brings me to my next point...

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It's ironic that the dissertation Thieme was writing had to stop, due to WWII, so here's this guy years later writing a dissertation on him, from the same seminary.

If Thieme graduated from Dallas Theological Seminary with Masters in 1949, then how did "the dissertation Thieme was writing" stop due to WWII? WWII was over in 1945. This does not make sense. What did he do time travel backwards? Also, note this person accuses Dallas Theological Seminary of an "adkia" - an abuse of authority - existed between DTS and Dr. Wall. This sounds like a conspiracy theory, but again note, this person opines but has not provided not a speck of proof.


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Don't get me wrong; I've seen some of the silly idolizing of Thieme you all complain about here, and I moved away from the church because of it.

Note this person's acknowledgement of cultic behaviour.

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But the teaching from Thieme? Sterling. Buy good Bible software like BibleWorks and then throw all the stones you want at what he says in exegesis. The exegesis is sound. So is the interpretation.

Note opinion with no facts.

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People stuck on people rather than God do stuff like post 30-year old elementary dissertations, rather than learn Bible. I'll go back to learning Bible, now. Bye.

Unwarranted generalization. Has this person ever seen "Cold Case"? A crime is a crime regardless of how long ago it was committed. Past MOs are key to discovering current crime. Past facts of crime are key gaining current arrests. Unless Thieme has changed his false doctrine of right pastor, then Thieme/Berachah is still a cult. This person opines that Dr. Wall's dissertation is elementary, note this is without providing 1 speck of evidence.

Dr. Wall's dissertation is offered to this forum and the world as evidence. Dr. Wall's dissertation is not offered for people to get wrapped up in Dr. Wall, to the contrary. Dr. Wall warns of Thieme's cultic behaviour and pastoral abuse of power. One of the reasons I offer this dissertation to the forum is because it is written by a [u:81fd2bac07]Doctor[/u:81fd2bac07] of Theology from Dallas Theological Seminary. Note Thieme only earned his Masters from Dallas Theoilogical Seminary. Granted this is Dr. Wall's dissertation, but many other Doctors of Theology have commented on Thieme's departure from the scriptures as well. Dr. Custer, Dr. Waite, Dr. Hymer, Dr. Charles Ryrie, Dr. John Walvoord, Dr. Philip R. Williams, Dr. John G. Mitchell, Dr. Ellwood Evans and more. So research and read what they have to say. Liken it to brain surgery, you wouldn't want just one opinion.


As Dr Enroth said "A central theme of this book ("Youth, Brainwashing, and the Extremist cult") is that spiritual abuse can take place in the context of doctrinally sound, bible preaching, fundamental, conservative christianity. All that is needed for abuse is a pastor accountable to no one and therefore beyond confrontation"

followed by

Dr. Wall said "Thieme was called to the pastorate in May, 1950. His first Sunday may have been a preview of what was to come. Thieme met with the Board of Deacons at the close of his first morning service and demanded their immediate resignation with the threat of his resignation if his demand was not met. The dumbfounded deacons acceded to Thieme's demand, and the pastor became the dominant leader who brooked no challenge to his authority from that time forward."


Truthtesty

To Genez:

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Genez quote: What are YOUR qualifications?

The truth.

Truthtesty

To Genez

Genez quote:

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Thanks!

Now, go follow your leader!

Your wrong in more than 1 way Genez. Happy is not my follower, she (unlike Thiemites) thinks for herself. She is my friend. I am not a cult leader. I would not be a good cult leader if I chose. I would be an excellent cult leader if I so chose.


Truthtesty

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Truthtesty
To Genez:

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Genez quote: What are YOUR qualifications?

The truth.

Truthtesty

Utter nonsense. You stomp on Christianity over in the History Channel forum? And, you have the audacity to profess having the skill to understand exegesis and doctrine?

Having a doctorate does not guarantee having the truth. Jehovah Witnesses have Ph. D's to back up what they want to believe.

The problem with Thieme and DTS was not that Thieme broke away from DTS. He never broke away from what Lewis Sperry Chafer wanted the school to produce. Thieme broke away from what the school had become. There is a difference.

And, Wall's work is nothing new to me. You think I refuse to read it? I read it back in the 80's. He misunderstands what Thieme teaches, and then preaches to the choir who also can not get a grip on what he teaches. Have you ever listened to Thieme yourself? His tapes are free of charge. (another cult tendency? Not out to make money?) :roll:

Truthtesty.... I have met people like you before. The only reason I came to this forum in the first place, was because someone who was bad mouthing Thieme used this forum as his proof. He knows better now. Thanks to you. Now that you have been exposed for what you are. History Channel forum, anyone? Christians are what to you?

You have the truth? Sounds like the thinking of a cult leader to me. For, you have followers who deny the facts about you. They think you are here to defend Christianity. Should you tell them? Or, would you rather I tell them?


In Christ, GeneZ

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Truthtesty
To Genez

Genez quote:

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Thanks!

Now, go follow your leader!

Your wrong in more than 1 way Genez. Happy is not my follower, she (unlike Thiemites) thinks for herself. She is my friend. I am not a cult leader. I would not be a good cult leader if I chose. I would be an excellent cult leader if I so chose.


Truthtesty

I think Christians like Happy and Free needs a refresher course. They need to know what you are like.

Like the following!


[b:54eb446702]http://tinyurl.com/2omno5[/b:54eb446702]
Then why aren't you laughing. And why are my posts here? Becuase people know what I am saying is true.

There is no hope in christianity becuase it does not exist. It was a virgin-saviour bedtime story that went from Egypt to Persia and throughout the regions of that time. The Gnostic christians were persecuted in the 1st century becuase the knew christianity was a myth. The Literalist christians - Roman orthodox christians were stupid enough to take it literally. The Romans caught on that it was a religious way to subjugate and persecute people by getting them to do it to themselves - self-persecution - through thier own faith. Wow what a slick way to control people! The Romans were the 1st fanatics of christianity. Just look at the blood lust of the Coliseum. And now the modern day fanatics easily slip in and control.

Christianity is for people afraid of going to hell. PERIOD! Look at the History Channel special on Hell. hell has existed since before Judaism let alone chrisitianty.

Satan is not evil in Judaism only in chrisitianity. christians made satan evil. One christian sect Catholic, Protestant, non-denominational, born again take your pick


And?



[b:54eb446702]http://tinyurl.com/2pxlqq[/b:54eb446702]
Assuming your christian which from you words you appear to be, then there is a part of you that corrupting away at yourself. It is a fact of nature when you go against you nature and leave your senses to have faith in jesus who is against your nature. You are choosing to be someone your not and your real identity is left behind. Your real life is left behind. To make it more clear for you if you never confused yourself with idea of jesus you would not be the subhuman you are today. You would be someone else. However, that someone else is like a rotting piece of meat inside you wanting to get out an be the real you. But by choice you won't let it so it tears away at your conscience and you try to hide with a high from bible class or some other means. It IS A fact that FAITH IN JESUS IDEOLOGY CORRUPTS. YOU CAN BURY THIS FACT WITH YOU UNTIL THE DAY YOU DIE ALONG WITH YOUR FEAR OF HELL BUT THE TRUTH WILL NEVER CHANGE. But don't feel too bad muslims and jews are the same way.





[b:54eb446702]http://www.iidb.org/vbb/archive/index.php/t-109148.html[/b:54eb446702]
Truthtesty
December 14, 2004, 06:28 PM
Interested in info. it appears that some researchers are asserting this. i would like to add it looks as if christians took a bit of sun-god lure and some judaism lure and kinda bunched it together to possibly have the "best" god? I know there was fierce competition for who's god is right or strongest or real in the past. There still is.



and...



Truthtesty
December 15, 2004, 08:25 PM
that if the WORD OF GOD was given to someone, the question begs and pleads - WHY DID THEY WAIT 60 PLUS YEARS TO WRITE DOWN THE 1ST BOOK OF THE NEW TESTAMENT? THE other books were written a 100 plus years later. If god had given me the word of god I would have scratched into stone with another stone - IMMEDIATELY. I would not wait 60 seconds let alone 60 years. From that it is easier for me to conclude that the jesus myth is a myth and was developed and created for over 60 years, not just finally written down after someone "finally got around to it"




[b:54eb446702]http://tinyurl.com/34hnj2[/b:54eb446702]
Personally I think christians are subhuman animal-like creatures. Actually animals are better. Better becuase animals are never given a choice to think rationally, while christians are given a choice to think rationally they coose not think and try operate on mindless faith. This act of leaving there natural senses and turning against thier true nature and true function has a corrupting effect on them and is the begginnings of psychosis. That is why christians go bad become sick pyschotics. There you chickens I answered the question of why you are sub-human animals.


Why any Christian would want to take you on your word about another Christian? Well? I will let your own words be your judge.

In Christ, GeneZ
[/url]

I don't need to hear Thieme's doctrines since 1978. I was there every night into the early 80s. And that "every night" routine began in 1968. Prior to 1968, it was only a few times per week because Thieme hadn't started the every night thing yet. But my endoctrination under Thieme began in the early 50s upon my birth.

My family keeps me apprised of all the recent doctrines, whether I want to hear them or not. I've learned all about the 'problem-solving-devices'. I've known lovely people from Berachah, and I've known mean, hateful people from Berachah. It's much like anywhere else as far as the people go. But nice or hateful, the people have been misled. I was misled.

It took some time away from the teachings of that ministry, and it took lots of time studying under other pastors, and studying on my own, and learning from the early Christians like St. Augustine and St. Francis of Assissi, and it took a good Christian psychotherapist who had a handle on dealing with victims of cults, but mostly it took the mercy of God to free me from that nightmarish prison--and at the time, I didn't even realize I was in prison.

While entangled in those teachings, or other similar legalistic teachings, one can't see the truth. No disrespect intended. You have every right to worship as you choose. Likewise, we have every right to voice our well-founded concern for what such ministries do to people. We speak from personal experience, having lived both lives. And having lived both lives, and now being free and at peace with God and myself, there is nothing you will ever say to convince me that it is a healthy way to live.

So feel free to study under Thieme or whomever you choose. But don't come to our forum and try to convince us that Thieme is a worthy teacher. We have already deemed him unworthy to teach us. We have a right to our choice too, just as you do. We're not hunting down chat groups of people studying under Thieme and butting into those with our opinions. We're in an appropriate chat group discussing what we believe to be a destructive church. If you don't like it, go away. Or at least keep your temper in check when you don't like what you read here.

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Truthtesty
I am not a cult leader. I would not be a good cult leader if I chose. I would be an excellent cult leader if I so chose.


Truthtesty

It does not take much to be an excellent cult leader. It means only having a knack in finding unstable and stupid people to follow you.

In contrast... It takes great substance and virtue to be a great Christian leader.

Any one can be a great cult leader. As long as there are enough unstable, stupid people residing in his area? He will be a great cult leader.


Having high IQ does not make one not stupid. Arrogance always makes high IQ to be stupid.

That's all it takes. That and a lie everyone can all unify around. :wink:


In Christ, GeneZ

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HappyAndFree
I don't need to hear Thieme's doctrines since 1978. I was there every night into the early 80s. And that "every night" routine began in 1968. Prior to 1968, it was only a few times per week because Thieme hadn't started the every night thing yet. But my endoctrination under Thieme began in the early 50s upon my birth.

I was speaking to Truthtesty.

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My family keeps me apprised of all the recent doctrines, whether I want to hear them or not. I've learned all about the 'problem-solving-devices'. I've known lovely people from Berachah, and I've known mean, hateful people from Berachah. It's much like anywhere else as far as the people go. But nice or hateful, the people have been misled. I was misled.

It took some time away from the teachings of that ministry, and it took lots of time studying under other pastors, and studying on my own, and learning from the early Christians like St. Augustine and St. Francis of Assissi, and it took a good Christian psychotherapist who had a handle on dealing with victims of cults, but mostly it took the mercy of God to free me from that nightmarish prison--and at the time, I didn't even realize I was in prison.

I think there is a problem here you are not facing. I have know mentally ill people in all sortts of ministries. It does not have to be the ministry's fault. Get a psychotherapist who can not grasp what Theime was teaching, and one can easily think it was a cult. I could have when I knew nothing.

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While entangled in those teachings, or other similar legalistic teachings, one can't see the truth. No disrespect intended.

This is what amazes me. I was attracted to Theime's teachings because he took a stand against legalism.

In what way was Theime's teaching legalistic?

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You have every right to worship as you choose.

So do you.

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Likewise, we have every right to voice our well-founded concern for what such ministries do to people.

Tell me? Is your family unstable? Crazed? Off the wall? Had Thieme turned them into robots? Hmmmmm?

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We speak from personal experience, having lived both lives. And having lived both lives, and now being free and at peace with God and myself, there is nothing you will ever say to convince me that it is a healthy way to live.

Your personal experience, and what really happened? We can not know by you saying so. For every good thing, there is a bad thing waiting to attack it. Some fall victim to the bad thing. That does not make the good to be bad. You can not see anything but black and white.

In another ministry I used to be a part of, a young woman who had spent thousands in psychotherapy, expressed here greatest appreciation for the pastor who headed that ministry. Years later? others were saying the same things you are about that man. I really think its an issue that we wrestle not against flesh and blood. Your problem was not with Thieme's teachings. Unless he taught child abuse from the pulpit. The teachings in themselves left you free to decide for yourself on what to believe. Now? If your family pressured you to follow them? Then your family was at fault. Not the teachings themselves.

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So feel free to study under Thieme or whomever you choose. But don't come to our forum and try to convince us that Thieme is a worthy teacher

[b:a4e6ea2572]Your [/b:a4e6ea2572]forum??????

Truthtesty who despises Christianity, is leading this foray. Do you despise Christianity, too? I don't get that from you. But?

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We have already deemed him unworthy to teach us. We have a right to our choice too, just as you do.

I honor your freedom to make such a choice. I have no problem with that. For, I did not come here to get anyone to learn from Thieme.

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We're not hunting down chat groups of people studying under Thieme and butting into those with our opinions. We're in an appropriate chat group discussing what we believe to be a destructive church. If you don't like it, go away. Or at least keep your temper in check when you don't like what you read here.

This is not a chat group. Its to expose cults.

If you are wrong? Its an acceptable means for slander as long as no one else speaks up.

Temper? You really have no idea what it is you are up against. I have no anger towards you, nor Truthtesty. For I know that I answer to only One. And, we all will answer to the same. The Lord Jesus Christ.

He will judge fairly and without partiality.

I only hope to maybe establish a bit of balance here. But, if it can not be done? I would have never known about this forum if it had not been pointed out to me. Its not going to shake the world.

Again.... I have not agreed with all Thieme has taught. And, I always was free to think that way. The thing I loved about his teaching was that he would venture into areas of Scripture where most pastors could not even begin to venture. He made me to think. He made me to question. He also was very insightful in many of his teachings. Such insight does not come from the devil. A cult never allows for that sort of thing. You are told what to think.


If your family was the one to pressure you? Then they were wrong. Not Thieme. He never advocated such a thing. Matter of fact, he spoke up against such a thing numerous times. But, I do not think that even your family did such a thing. Correct?

In Christ, GeneZ