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cbarb-again
Hi folks!!!

and the summarisation is excellent (gets rid of all the more winded comments, as you said :-)
As the song goes, "the long and winding road" leads to the door - eventually!!

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I also have to question the no alcohol policy - didn't Jesus turn the water into WINE??? Perhaps the powers that be in SMC ('scuse the unintended poetry) think that their congregation are too immature to decide for themselves how much alcohol is too much - so, to be on the safe side abstinence is the order from the pulpit. I wonder how the anointed ones would fare if Jesus stopped by for a wee dram and all they could offer him was a cup of tea. Are they saying that Jesus was sinful for turning water into wine? Or is it just that they think the members haven't got the intelligence to drink alcohol sensibly.

Cbarb: When I first attempted to copy and paste the EDITED version of your contributions cbarb - the forum software complained that I had exceeded the limit for character count in posts - so had to edit it down further ! - i'd say to about HALF - of your original edited stuff !!!!.

( Of course I say this merely to taunt you even further )

As to the alcohol issue - even as someone who really enjoys the stuff and luckily has managed to avoid any kind of addiction - I do have some sympathy for their teetotal stance - particularly in church - in order to take into account alcoholics or recovering alcoholics.

Referring back to Jesus' time - alcoholism would have been present, but the total lack of a sympathetic welfare state would have meant that the majority of these would quickly die off. Unless they were rich.

If - as most protestants believe - the eucharist is a metaphor. not literal then there is no reason that any red - safe - non-alcoholic liquid couldn't substitute for wine in the ceremony. In any case - in those ancient days it was customary to drink wine very diluted down for common everyday use. One of the most important reasons wine ( or beer ) was drank almost as water - was due to its anti-bacterial properties ( sugared alcohol ) meant people didnt die so much from
drinking infected water.

As to personal drinking habits I think it pays to ask oneself ( and ones close friends ) whether one is an addict - or has a predisposition towards addiction. These things have been shown to have genetic roots. But as long as one is not one of these I dont see any great problem.

On a different topic - I happened to be in Ardrossan recently at a party, where a friend of mines family was present - including one of his brother-in-laws - who happens to be a Baptist Pastor. After we had broken the ice it transpired that he - as I - was an ardent fan of the series The Wire, and - contrary to what you here might think - we managed to have an extensive long chat - where - to my recollection - we agreed on virtually all topics we discussed !.

Since he _didn't_ fit the "target psychological/doctrinal/cultural demographic" of my atheist rants we actually ended up agreeing on everything we discussed I simply saw no point in "debating" any remaining differences theistically. If only more Christians were like him. And no - he wasn't some ultra-liberal non-evangelical "wooly".

You won't be surprised to find out he had most definitely heard of Struthers Memorial Cult, and had the same misgivings and attitudes towards "this sort of thing" ( quoting Father Ted ) as me.



TO ALL AT SMC: 35-37



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2013 10:12PM by Clive.

Happy Survivor: what are these "insane rules and regulations"? I've presumably been at the same meetings as you and I don't recall them being handed down. Are you just making stuff up? Again, exact quotes please and I will go away and check who said what

Hey Clive, sorry you won't draw me into the handbags at dawn stage this time coz I actually agree with you! Oh, no did I actually say that???? I must be going soft or something! :-)

What about GLUTTONY?? Anyone ever heard a sermon on that one from the SMC pulpits?? I certainly haven't but I did see much evidence of that particular 'sin' in many of the anointed ones but they seem to conveniently pass over those references in the Bible ... heaven forbid that any of the anointed ones should have to adjust their own lifestyles to suit God or be seen to be only human after all. Ooops, I forgot, they're only human when they get caught out breaking their own rules ... but of course that's then a 'test of their faith'. Are we still talking absurdity here???

However, getting away from the theological discussion, the very practical and salient point raised by the Petitor regarding the misuse of Restricted Funds is a very serious offence for a charitable organisation and probably one which the OSCR will be looking into as a part of their investigation of the Charity and its activities. It could be that those funds were used for the intended activities but if they were then it should be clearly stated in the accounts which activities were covered by these funds. However, I haven't seen any paragraphs in the accounts or the notes to the accounts which explain how the restricted funds were put to use and whether or not they were used for the intended purpose. I can't see how they could have been used for the intended purpose unless that purpose was to buy iPads for the school or pay the wages of the nepotistic teaching staff.

It would be interesting to know how that investigation by OSCR is going but I'm led to believe that these investigations can take a long time to complete so I guess we just need to be very patient for the outcome.

PS. It's good that you met a REAL Christian at the party Clive. The guy you spoke to is probably more indicative of the majority of Christians, since there are very few Christians outside of SMC who are as absurd as those inside SMC. So I'm glad you got a taste of what REAL Christians are actually like! :-)

As always biiiiiiig love and huge huggggggs to all
God Bless xxx

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cbarb-again

PS. It's good that you met a REAL Christian at the party Clive. ...... So I'm glad you got a taste of what REAL Christians are actually like! :-)

Ahem.. i'm afraid that even though you might be a very true scot by birth and upbringing - your above statement falls foul of the "No True Scotsman Fallacy"...


[www.logicalfallacies.info]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2013 07:52AM by Clive.

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bingowings
Happy Survivor: what are these "insane rules and regulations"? I've presumably been at the same meetings as you and I don't recall them being handed down. Are you just making stuff up? Again, exact quotes please and I will go away and check who said what

Hi Bingowings

Just to be clear

Are you saying that if Happy Survivor, or other people on this forum, give you details of rules and regulations they claim to have been subjected to in Struthers Memorial Church you are in a position to take that information to the people in leadership of that church and they will then let you come back to this forum with an official reply as to whether these rules and regulations are actual Struthers Memorial Church teachings or not?

If that is what you are claiming you will do, and you can confirm and clarify the teachings and practices of Struthers Memorial Church then there are many people who are part of this forum who have been waiting for that for some considerable time.

Or would you just be giving us your personal best guess? It makes quite a difference.

Bingowings – welcome to the forum. It would indeed be wonderful if you could check out things that have been said. Quite a number of people have felt confused by the teachings and would welcome clarity.

Will you come back to this forum with your findings?

One very simple thing for starters – is there, or was there, a rule that women should wear hats at meetings? If you want to go back and check who said what, you could refer to Mr Black’s book.

Hi guys

I'm afraid Clive that I probably am not a true Scotsman (woman). I DO put sugar in my porridge :-) shame on me!!! But I have personally met far more REAL Christians outside of SMC than inside and I think you got a taste of that. And many more people who do not claim to be Christians or religious in any way who are far more loving and giving than those inside SMC who DO claim to be Christians.

Hi Bingowings, welcome and I love the name by the way!! :-)

It would indeed be great if you could clarify some of the rules and regulations in SMC, since many of these have changed over the years.

When I attended, these were some of the rules we had to live by - I'm not saying all are absurd but some very definitely are:

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Women MUST wear hats - we actually crocheted extra bunnets to give out to women who attended but weren't aware of this rule - they could then 'borrow' a lovely crocheted beret from the back of the church before the service commenced.

Women MUST wear skirts - this was later rescinded and I think my Mum was one of the first (along with Ma Jewell) to start wearing trousers to church.

TV is evil and should be banned from households - not sure if this is still in force

The giving of Christmas presents is wrong and detracts from the meaning of Christmas

People should not laugh or be joyful while in church but must remain serious at all times

Children should be seen and not heard

No alcohol should be drunk even in one's own home

No secular music

No Christian music which involves electric guitars and drums

No dancing

No socialising with anyone outside of SMC

Mental illness is a sign of possession by demons

Physical illness is a sign of lack of faith in supposed healing

Women should not dye their hair as this is a sign of vanity

Women should not wear make-up (more vanity)

Women should not wear fashionable clothes (more vanity)

No eating of black pudding (except if you happened to be with Mr. Black when he wanted to eat it)

Christians are not saved until the leaders of the church tell them they are

Christians are frequently possessed by the devil and need deliverance ministry on an on-going basis

Leaving SMC means you have back-slidden and are no longer a Christian

No marrying outside the church

No going to the cinema

Holidays to anywhere but SMC camps were frowned upon and earned you a telling off from the public platform

No attending outside meetings in other churches (this rule came into force after Miss T. took over the Greenock platform)

Only SMC members will ever make it to Heaven and only if they are given the seal of approval from the leaders

If the leaders tell you to write a letter to someone and you phone them instead - this is not cool

The leaders will tell you if, when and who you should marry

Your marriage will be arranged by the leaders of the church and you will have no input to this

To question leaders on points raised in sermons or in the Bible is akin to questioning God and will not be tolerated

Everything the leaders say comes directly from God and they know His will for you better than you do

No sports

No hobbies

You must attend every meeting, every day of the week

You will never be good enough for God

Leaders will not help or advise you unless they feel 'drawn' to you (in other words; they will only help you if they like you and you are totally enrapt by them)

Having a mind of your own is evil

Leaders will ban and ostracise anyone who does not agree with them or whom they dislike

Leaders will decide whether or not members should continue to live with or visit their family and friends

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OK that's about it I think. Have I missed anything, anyone?

I think it's fairly plain which of the above rules are completely absurd and insane! :-)

Hope you can clarify these, Bingowings, but I suspect (unless you are an older member who has been there for years) you will not have come across all of these rules before. Many of us have though!

As always biiiiiiiig love and huge hugggggs to all
God Bless xxx

PS. I think pretty much ALL of these rules were set by Miss T. way back in the day.

Hello Bingowings and those behind you at SMC!

You maybe haven't grasped the fact that I only left SMC last week so I would say that I am fairly up to date with the latest rules, regulations, practices and prevailing attitudes. Although, the rules do tend to change by the minute so maybe I am not all that up to date!

I feel that the time has now come for you at SMC to sit down and have a little chat with my good friends who are the stars of the television/BBC Iplayer story. It would appear that you need to be enlightened a little more on SMC's attitude to the television. You will find this couple fairly near to the front pew in Greenock or in Glasgow on a Saturday night. You may find yourself singing some of the man's songs as he is quite talented musically. Failing these options you could contact him at the local drug rehab centre as he works there. I don't know if this worthy couple read this forum or latigo214...probably not, as last Friday (30th August) the guy told me that if you read these websites " hooks" can lodge within you and plant seeds of doubt. I can tell you all at SMC that the seeds of doubt were planted in my mind long before either of these websites were even set up.

Come to think of it now, I do remember seeing a television in pride of place at this couple's home since their broadband usage went through the roof...I just can't quite remember if it was still there when I visited their home last Friday. But then again, maybe they are just using it to watch DVDs...so don't judge them too harshly without going away and checking first, as I know that you like to go away "and check who said what". Do come back and report your findings.

Poor old Bingowings and all those from SMC reading this forum just now, I feel for you..you are having a rough old ride...I think I have made the point quite succinctly so now the time has come for the next SMC clown to enter the debate...who will SMC send next? I can't wait! Bring him/her on!!

Hello all!

I really don't want to get bogged down talking about televisions etc.

I have something far more alarming to share with you...on Sunday 25th August I phoned the home of the couple I have referred you all to. I just wanted to ask my good friend if she was concerned that SMC was being investigated by the OSCR. Well...nothing could have prepared me for the sheer hostility of her reaction to my hesitant question. In an interrogative style she asked me who had told me about the OSCR review. Quite openly, I told her that it is on the OSCR website for all to see. Then, she demanded to know exactly what I was doing on the OSCR website. Well, excuse me, but if the leadership of SMC have chosen to ally themselves with the OSCR and to receive all the benefits that accompany it why on earth shouldn't I look on the OSCR website? The next question fired at me was who exactly had told me that SMC was under review. Talk about a Stasi inquisition! I felt suitably terrified and rang off to quietly recover. This was my close friend of 8 years by the way.

I texted my good friend after the above interrogation. Here is my text..."Dearest ..,now I completely understand...u were too frightened to talk 2 me about the Charity Commission. But, I just want you to know that with God + Christ there is no need 4 fear and any church that causes you to turn on a dear friend in the way u did on Sunday and 2 reject a sister in Christ, just cannot be right. Struthers may not be at fault here, maybe it's just you on a bad day. I look forward 2 your reply. Much love.."

I never received a reply to the above text. Much later after I had made a further approach I received the following brief text..." I had not intended being hostile...sorry if it came across that way. I do not want to discuss further any of our conversation from last Sunday. Happy to chat about other things."

I replied as follows..."That's fine, no probs. just txt me b4 2mor nite and let me know all the topics that are off limits. That way I won't offend you. Luv.."

Do you get the picture? Whole subject areas off limits...conversations being closed down...a general atmosphere of fear and oppression...friends turning on each other...intimidation tactics...

When I spoke to Grace Gault about this she replied "I'm not getting involved in this!" . Well Grace, I'm afraid that as the overall spiritual head of SMC you are already involved. Unless of course you totally abdicate any responsibility for the havoc your members are wreaking in people's lives. Obviously, you are above all this kind of thing. Actually, I quite agree...just stick to glorying in platform hogging and don't get your hands dirty in the messy affairs of humble folks' lives.