DaveWish you are very dishonest in the way you setup you're evaluation on whether or not TZM is a cult, i bet you are James Kush.
The TZM forums are closed forums meant for members to discuss various topics relating to TZM, we do accept constructive criticism and debate on the concepts advocated but we will not accept trolling and childish activity's such as calling us a cult.

If you do find some part of TZM that falls into the requirements of Robert J Lifton's checklist please explain and lay out the reasoning and logic of why you believe that, i definitely would not want to be part of a cult but i do want society to advance and an RBE is the next step to get us at civilization type 1.

corboy have you seen the Zeitgeist Orientation presentation, doubt you will find anything cultish in there.
[video.google.com]

DaveWish you are very dishonest in the way you setup you're evaluation on whether or not TZM is a cult, i bet you are James Kush.
The TZM forums are closed forums meant for members to discuss various topics relating to TZM, we do accept constructive criticism and debate on the concepts advocated but we will not accept trolling and childish activity's such as calling us a cult.

If you do find some part of TZM that falls into the requirements of Robert J Lifton's checklist please explain and lay out the reasoning and logic of why you believe that, i definitely would not want to be part of a cult but i do want society to advance and an RBE is the next step to get us at civilization type 1.

corboy have you seen the Zeitgeist Orientation presentation, doubt you will find anything cultish in there.
[video.google.com]

Id also like to make you realize the distinction between Peter's Zeitgeist films and the movement. The Zeitgeist series including Zeitgeist the Movie, Zeitgeist Addendum and Zeitgeist Moving Forward are not the movement but the views and artistic expression of Peter Joseph, also a method he uses as a form of activism to promote the movement. Peter Joseph is in no way the leader, he is the site admin and owner tho. The movement itself advocates the venus project and focuses on economics, science, and the world today in relation to our goal. There is no information that is hidden.

I'm sorry you feel that way Gaby_64, but TZM is a cult.

"If you do find some part of TZM that falls into the requirements of Robert J Lifton's checklist please explain"

"The TZM forums are closed forums meant for members to discuss various topics relating to TZM, "

I did discuss on the forum exactly why, and it was deleted.

Any organization not confronting it being a cult, deleting information relating to it being a cult, having people in the position of directing others anonymously, as the moderators there are anonymous, is a cult, by definition.

We are not talking about the definition of cult being less than a certain amount of members or it’s existing for a small period of time, but the definition of abusive, one way, controlling, manipulative, brainwashing, power tripping, authoritarian, totalitarian way of disrespecting people and their true full growth to become who they really are through destroying their minds.

TZM is clearly an abusive controlling cult. People will get hurt and their distress and blood will be on your hands.

If Peter Joseph is the site adimn, and does not apoligize and make the necessary corrections, he will go down in history as being on the level of all other cultist leaders that destroyed people.

Gaby_64,
I am not anonymous. I am not James Kush. I am not even aware of who that is. I have no hidden agenda. I am sorry you cannot seem to, yet, see the red flags and understand it's implications on human development and growth. An organization need have only one problem to be identified. I would prefer that TZM decided to acknowledge their shortfalls. We all make mistakes.

You posted a link to a video as your example of why TZM is not a cult. This is exactly the problem. It is one way communication. It discourages dialogue and equal communication. In order to post in the forums over there you must pass a test. Can you show me where they have an open dialogue to discuss serious matters such as this? I am a reasonably intelligent individual and I could not easily find contact information for Peter Joseph.

If they wish to improve, they will need to address the situation. Unless they do, then I can only recommend that all members leave.

It seems best to realize that your typical cult does not get members by saying, Come here so I can brainwash you, restrict your thoughts, take advantage of your fears, abuse you, and do so by taking advantage of your own internal values. The way it is actually done is that they put forth ideas that you are in agreement with. These are usually good ideas, about important things, and are also usually true. This is how they get you interested. They tell you the truth about many things. All cults do this. In return, they get people that are interested and willing to participate in doing things. The problem occurs, and is easily identified, when their own actions are hypocritical. The anonymous moderators in their forum are enough. It takes no more proof than that. However, there are always more signs, just as a recent one year member posted in his blog. I cannot tell you everything they do right or wrong. I can only tell you that "we all" care about your well being and those of the others that are being tricked into supplying time and recourses to an organization that is not transparent. You are not stupid in anyway for caring and wanting to try and make a positive difference. This is how these groups operate. Once you have told everyone you know to listen to them, it becomes embarrassing to admit the pitfalls and hypocrisies. They use your own ego to hold you hostage to views that you do not, or should not, agree with.

We are only human and we make mistakes. I would prefer they correct their ways and be an example to other groups trying to make positive change. I find this a superior solution, if possible. Why throw out the baby with the dirty bath water? We must throw out the dirty bath water!!! That would be all the "wrong" reasons the TZM boards are set up the way they are. Those that made those decisions have shown they lack the basic education to support mutual human respect, tolerance, and encouragement of true personal growth.

I know you want to do right, as do the others reading this. Take the time to realize that they say in their movie, Moving Forward, people that lack ethics and morals are brain damaged. Now, if you believe that, you must also believe that a healthy human being has ethics and morals. Can we agree on that 100%? If so, then do you agree that honesty is a part of being ethical and moral? If so, then we must start there on all decisions. They must be ethical and honest. A lack of transparency is just a fancy way of saying someone is lying. And they are, because their lack of transparency is hypocritical for all of their talk of wanting transparency.

A top moderator on their board responded to me with deception, and a lack of transparency, and diversion. He accused me of something, not reading his post, of which was clearly proven in my follow-up post, he had actually done, for not reading my post. The time frame from when I posted, and the link contained therein, could not have been read by the time he responded. I called him out on it too!!! They deleted my post. How is hiding the abusive lies they subjected me to of benefit for others? I caught that moderator red handed, attempting to deceive others. I can't tell who it was. How convenient for them! No?

If none of what I have said helps you, then I have two more things. Contact a professional that deals with cults, as they are better suited to help you, by far, and... a big hug!!!!!!

Take care

Im sorry if you fail to understand what is presented and resort to childish accusations to try an belittle it.
TZM is not a cult, the only part close to a cult in TZM is the forum, thats it, the movement is not the forum.
And you going on the forum as a non-member to falsely and unreasonably go and accuse TZM of being a cult violates the rules and gives you the type of reaction you wanted.
So stop whining and start explaining, whether or not TZM is a cult is debatable so you do not hold the upper hand on whether it is or not.
Saying that TZM is abusive and controlling is very false, you are the one who was abusive and therefor control was put in action by you're own actions.

This is not a serious matter as TZM is obviously not a cult, it is a scientific sustainability advocacy movement, no brainwashing and participation is voluntary.

You seriously cannot expect all members to uphold the values advocated by TZM, the social brainwashing is way to persistent to be overcomed with facts, you also cannot say hypocracy has any relevance. Yes it would be allot better if we all acted respectfully and all had the same morals but we are not a cult and we cannot control peoples actions. The movement is only the activist arm of the venus project, as such its goal is to educate people about the venus project, it does not mean we are part of a commune and must abide to strict rules.


I think you're attempts to label the movement as a cult are pointless as the word itself is way to bloated with other associations to be applied to us, mention the specific problem and we will discuss the solutions.

A separate open forum could be a start? But such forum can be externalized and created by anyone, the discussions can happen also on other forums so its almost pointless.


If you do not like the forum and wish to be part of the movement simply go to a chapter or create you're own, physical presence and activism is much better then simply going on the forum to discuss things. But of course if you do see a problem in the organisation of the movement then please address it and present a solution.

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Gaby_64
Im sorry if you fail to understand what is presented and resort to childish accusations to try an belittle it.

I understand. They have already taken over your brain. There is nothing childish about abuse.

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Gaby_64
TZM is not a cult, the only part close to a cult in TZM is the forum, thats it, the movement is not the forum.

Yes, they are, because they support abuse.

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Gaby_64
And you going on the forum as a non-member to falsely and unreasonably go and accuse TZM of being a cult violates the rules and gives you the type of reaction you wanted.

If the rules do not allow us to call others out for abuse, then what good are they? Any reasonable person seeing anonymous moderators should have spoken up. Anyone that did was kicked out or left, and the ones that are left are brainwashed to into accepting such a controlling abusive environment.

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Gaby_64
So stop whining and start explaining, whether or not TZM is a cult is debatable so you do not hold the upper hand on whether it is or not.

The debate is over. Whether or not you and others are willing to accept the simple truth is another matter.

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Gaby_64
Saying that TZM is abusive and controlling is very false, you are the one who was abusive and therefor control was put in action by you're own actions.

I was for real. I wasn’t about to hand my life over to them. I wanted to learn more. I was met with red flags everywhere when I joined the board. I was lied to immediately by your directors. I would call that abuse. They abused me. I’ll be fine and get over it, but it was abuse. The only reason I will be fine is I’m not buying into anything you people have to say. Apparently, not a single member can tell the truth from a hole in the ground and they want to make positive change? Truth is easily talked about. Doing it is another matter entirely. Your plan is seriously flawed and bound to restrict true personal growth and responsibility. You guys want to teach sustainability and responsibility and not a single person there is yet to be responsible and uphold the truth. Nothing is sustainable without the truth. You guys are done having any respect until these issues are properly addressed. Go ahead; tell everyone you know about TZM. They will find this post here. The BS is over. TZM is currently an abusive cult. It has been proven.

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Gaby_64
This is not a serious matter as TZM is obviously not a cult, it is a scientific sustainability advocacy movement, no brainwashing and participation is voluntary.

Yes, it is. You are clearly brainwashed yourself. You are diverting away from my previous response. It appears to be too difficult for you to grasp at this point in time. In the future, with professional help, real help, you should be fine.

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Gaby_64
You seriously cannot expect all members to uphold the values advocated by TZM, the social brainwashing is way to persistent to be overcomed with facts, you also cannot say hypocracy has any relevance.

Hypocrisy is always relevant when you are talking about abusive cults and controlling freedom of thought and expression, with LIES.

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Gaby_64
Yes it would be allot better if we all acted respectfully and all had the same morals but we are not a cult and we cannot control peoples actions. The movement is only the activist arm of the venus project, as such its goal is to educate people about the venus project, it does not mean we are part of a commune and must abide to strict rules.

Your cult is not ready to educate anyone. It needs to stop and self govern with transparency and basic human respect, FIRST.

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Gaby_64
I think you're attempts to label the movement as a cult are pointless as the word itself is way to bloated with other associations to be applied to us, mention the specific problem and we will discuss the solutions.

You are entitled to your opinion, however, one person already has posted in this tread that he had never heard of your cult. He sees the same red flags I do. So, my opinion is that others will also eventually read this thread. You guys are done for good now. This will never go away. Apologies from Peter, the forum members that disagreed, corrections to the group’s way of handling things, replacement of my post on the boards, and an acceptance of the truth are all in order and required.

I should also add that any money in the movement needs to go directly to doctors to pay for treatment for the recovery of the members. If it takes every cent that Peter has, then so be it. He can start over on his own life after he has paid for the necessary treatment for everyone affected.

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Gaby_64
A separate open forum could be a start? But such forum can be externalized and created by anyone, the discussions can happen also on other forums so its almost pointless.

This is an external forum. It was not created by just anyone either. If you read through it you will find many positive and decent people that have been helped here. It is far from pointless. It is all that matters up front. No mission is worthy until it makes the actual choices to actually tell the truth and uphold the truth, instead of just "saying", "telling the truth is important".

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Gaby_64
If you do not like the forum and wish to be part of the movement simply go to a chapter or create you're own, physical presence and activism is much better then simply going on the forum to discuss things. But of course if you do see a problem in the organization of the movement then please address it and present a solution.

My IP was banned, as were many others, from what I have read around the web. It was them that decided to not discuss being a cult and address these legitimate issues of lies and abuse. If my feather were ruffled at all, it was becasue of the way everything was presented by your group.

The solution has already been stated. Get out! They will never listen until they are buried in law suits and everyone walks away. That is what it takes. Walk away and do not let them steal one more second of your life. You are more then a pawn of people with a higher education used for self gratification through controlling others. All the great things you have to offer the human race are going to waste on these liars.

This is not my pet project. I'm done and need to move on.

BTW, here is that deleted post from their forums.

Cached Google link to deleted post on TZM forums

Advice--anything in Google cache can eventually be removed if someone contacts the company.

So if you dont want something to disappear, copy it, if only for your own private files.

You can go to the cached page, do text only and copy text.

If you wish to obtain a copy of what the screen looks like, open a Word document in a separate window.

Go to the screen image you want to copy. Look at your keybord and in the right hand section of the keyboard, just above the 'insert' button you will see a button with print scrn written on it.

Tap that button. Nothing will seem to happen, but has happened is that hitting the Print Scrn button will copy the image on your screen.

Go to the Word document and do 'paste'. You should see a snapshot, on that page, of
what you want.

You may need to do this several times get all parts of the screen.

I did save out the page using IE as a MHT archive. I did not think to mention that I did that, which is of benefit. That was a good idea to point that out for others. Let me add that the reason I have not posted a snap shot or reposted the thread on another board is possible copyright violation. I did not want to possibly break the law to prove my point. Thank you corboy. Your support and research has been very appreciated. It is truly a beautiful thing.

I have to tell you that I find it quite refreshing that what I believe is the true first step, beyond basic human physical requirements, to improving this world for real, is clearly all over this website.

I do not believe we are going to make it, but kudos to all of you that support commonsense. At least the hard work of the people here provides a necessary step in the only possible long lasting solution for us all.

I have a new saying, “The solution can only be found in the solution”. I realize the odds of healthy survival of our kind are very small. Yet, the possibility of this mess we have being cleaned up, no matter how small, must be found in the legitimate answers. Hence, the solution can only be found in the solution.

The last thing I would like clarify is something in my previous post. I said, “You guys are done having any respect until these issues are properly addressed”. The respect is I am talking about is for TZM, and not directed at the people personally. We should always have basic human respect. Thanks again and a very positive hug to you all.