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Re: I want Eckhart Tolle out
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: November 01, 2010 04:39AM

For a counterpoint, it is certainly not impossible to break out of the flattened-emotions that can come from the misuse of these techniques by these New Agey Gurus.
They misuse those techniques deliberately, the same way various "meditation cults" have done for decades.
In the olden days, even in addition to these techniques to flake people out, they would put everyone on a white-rice diet, to passify them even more.

But current psychology has many methods to break out of this.

As well, there are healthy uses of Mindfulness being used, as in research based Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy. Now of course, many are abusing that too! But that is supposed to be used in a moderate way, not in the extreme way its abused by Tolle and others.

Of course, anyone with serious issues, should always seek help from a good, experienced accredited professional in their area.

But its totally possible to break away from the flattened-emotions created by the abuse of those cognitive processes.

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Re: I want Eckhart Tolle out
Posted by: LoriW ()
Date: November 01, 2010 05:18AM

I have no experience with Tolle but much of this mind control crap shares similarities... Three years ago when trying to snap out of a flat, spacey/ tranced out feeling from doing the release technique I began playing chess on the computer, and it seemed to help. Later on I found great benefits from doing creativity exercises. There are many out there, I used some from the book called Thinkertoys.

It also helped me to read about great geniuses. All the courses I took said the mind is the enemy and we should stop "trying to figure things out." Imagine the state of the world if everyone did that! I don't think Thomas Edison, Leonardo da Vinci, Einstein or Mozart thought their minds were the enemy. I doubt whether those who designed the great bridges and buildings of the world thought trying to figure things out was a bad thing.

I think creative and logic thinking are great antidotes to people like Tolle and BK and whoever tells you thinking is bad for you.

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Eckhart Tolle -- Comments From Someone who Knows Him
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: November 01, 2010 05:43AM

Yes, exactly, the "mind" is not the enemy, its the exact opposite.
The Demon Haunted World book linked to, can help with critical thinking training.
Playing chess also seems like a great way to counteract the deadened mindlessness. Have fun, go back to playing board games one enjoyed as a kid.
Take a college course on an intellectual subject that is interesting.

There is no way in hell that Eckhart Tolle has flaked his own mind out, the proof is in his hundreds of hours of New Agey pontificating he sells for a living. He is sitting there on his private island with his business partner, constantly coming up with new marketing techniques and products, writing, recording more junk, etc.
Tolle is very goal-oriented and ambitious, he is probably planning his marketing into many other countries in the world.

Echkart Tolle does NOT practice what he preaches, neither did his co-saleswoman Oprah. They don't do what they tell others to do. Its just some kind of TV marketing fluff. Another product to shill.

This thread has very important info in it, from a former friend of Eckhart Tolle

Eckhart Tolle -- Comments From Someone who Knows Him []
QUOTE: "My old friend has become obsessed with his own success and I need to say, monstrously so. He has shown a side to me that scares me. He is determined to get as far up the mountain (exceeding his competitors like Deepak Chopra, Gary Zukov, all those other souls out there that crank out these books!) as he can go. I am afraid for him and a little afraid of him. He is no longer recognizable to me. Some say this is not unusual for these "guru" types. That sooner or later, things come tumbling down, thanks to a lot of hubris and just ego-overkill. That's right. Ego-overkill. Tolle--and I noticed this many years ago--we were out one day and ended up walking into a bookstore where Tolle knew the guy behind the counter--I busied myself browsing the books, but Tolle came off with an arrogance and know-it-all-ness that surprised me. I had never seen this side of him before--but I blew it off and didn't give it a lot of thought as he rarely acted this way with me. ( I am a woman, by the way.). Now it seems Tolle is all ego. And yes, it is horrendously ironic how he has made the ego anathema, when he has become an ego-maniac himself. I am sad to see it all unfold the way it has." (cont'd at link)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2010 05:48AM by The Anticult.

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Re: I want Eckhart Tolle out
Posted by: Brynhild Tudor ()
Date: November 01, 2010 01:58PM

Hey Calm,
Wow, you feel that way too? How happy I am to know I'm not alone either! I was involved with the new age for 5 years with various authors (Caroline Myss, Eckhart Tolle, Byron Katie, Wayne Dyer, The Secret and the Abraham Hicks teachings, lightworkers, ascension, Karen Bishop, Sal Rachele, tons of channelings, Sonia Choquette) for varying periods of time each. I can spout the lingo with the best of 'em. I did not attend any workshops/seminars or give any money, thank God, but what I did give (my mind, time and energy) is, I feel, in some ways, far worse. You name it, I tried it. It'll suck you in, and promises bliss, but if this mind-numbing crap is bliss, I don't want it. When classical music didn't affect me as it used to, and when I woke up from a disturbing dream one night, I realized just how deep I was in, how apathetic and indifferent I was becoming. And I know how scary and unnerving it can be, trust me. So you're not alone. So I came here for help, and the damage isn't permanent (at least, I hope it isn't), and though my recovery is painfully slow, here is what I am doing.

1. Reading this forum a lot. There are posts here, such as people trying to stamp out the work of Byron Katie from their minds (no pun intended), that can apply to other new-age authors such as Tolle.

2. Becoming knowledgeable about psychological tactics and marketing ploys that are being used. Yep, psychology tactics do exist! I didn't know until somebody told me about them... I thought people really did channel certain information, for example. Until I started looking at my feelings and this group introduced me to people like Carl Sagan (who writes on varying psychological stratigies cults use to recruit members), Milton Erickson (who apparently was a genius and whose stories Byron Katie twisted viciously to her own ends) and William Atkinson, (who, I think, was the original guy behind the concept of the Secret, and Esther and Jerry Hicks did nothing but steal his info and touted it as the wisdom of an ancient group of all-knowing, all-loving entities called Abraham.) I'd never heard of these authors of psychology and science until the group introduced me to them via various postings! I must keep reminding myself of the stratigic and plageristic actions of these new-agey little weasels every day, and it helps slowly damage their credibility. So you might have to do a bit of background research on Tolle and see if he isn't engaging in some illegal activity, or at least, activity that raises a few eyebrows.

3. Doing research on these authors and discovering that they're all filthy rich, which is a bit inconvenient for us mere mortals, considering that they say they want to help the rest of humanity. Because you see, my definition of helping humanity is relating to us in some way, shape or form. So if the economy is bad and we don't have jobs, the least authors could do if they truly wanted to help us would be to charge on a sliding scale, provide their services for free because they recognize some people need scientific proof, which isn't available, or talking to us on our level (translation: using language we can understand.) It's staring me in the face now, but it took me awhile to notice the striking similarity between these "enlightened/spiritual" authors, and the fact that they made this their business, and though they constantly preached (everybody's gonna get enlightened, but you don't necessarily have to make money from it if that's not your calling", I couldn't help noticing that such a high number of authors made money from the new-age movement, it implied that was what you had to do to become enlightened. You never see a paper boy, mechanic, garbage collector, or someone with a real occupation who is new-age. Unless their occupation is psychic, healer, energy worker, or something. If they do have a secular job, they hardly speak of it and prefer to make new-age their main focus, when I think it should be the other way around. Another thing: Is it me, or has anyone else noticed that people attracted to the new age are into esoteric concepts (mysticism, yoga, meditation, energy work, crystal healing, reiki, alternative medicine, metaphysics, etc)? You'll never find a new-ager who has no interest in metaphysics, implying that you have to have an interest, and/or an understanding of, such things if you want to have any hope of achieving happiness.

Another poster opened my eyes to the fact that authors don't follow up with the clients they're trying to help in a personalized, "hey, I was concerned about you, just thinking of you and wanted to find out how you were doing since we last spoke" sort of way. No follow-ups or one-on-one contact, unless of course you pay for the latter. I questioned a couple new-age people about all this and got some nasty, defensive responses back. New-age people write books, channel messages, and travel the country giving seminars, workshops and lectures. They do not, as one told me, have time for the likes of ordinary people such as us and our mundane activities (or at least that what the channeled spirit said, according to him.) If they do advocate balance, they imply or say outright that they want us to spend time following their techniques. So much for the enlightened character. I no longer read any new-age stuff because my mind'll slip back into believing it, and now I have a strong aversion to "love and light", so much so that when anyone says or writes that phrase, it makes me want to puke my guts out.

4. Making the decision to not become enlightened because it's too much work. This is a tough one, because I'm still inclined to believe the authors, that the illusion of bliss is still possible. My concious choice to no longer pursue enlightenment allows me to pursue mundane activities, like watching the news and giving myself permission to feel negatively about tragedy like a normal person, or allow myself to have judgments/oppinions about other people based on my observations of them, order to become like the rest of humanity. I take spinning classes and music lessons, and train my mind to focusing only on those activities at hand. It is helping to put a smile on my face, although I admit I worry I'll pay for my secularism in the coming new world (like I said, I'm still inclined to believe it. Internal thoughts are so much harder to stamp out than external behaviors. I got rid of my new-age trinkets long ago, but it doesn't help enough.)

5. Thinking rebellious thoughts on purpose. Basically, reading a new-age concept and think the opposite/ So if Eckhart Tolle says "get rid of your mind" I think, "I love my mind and ego, and I'm going to keep it."

6. Having the good people on this forum here to help. They're invaluable, really. Don't know what I'd do without you.

Here are a couple websites I find helpful.
You know how sometimes the most humorous things have rings (more like alarm bells) of truth to them? Also, the fact that you can still laugh shows that all is not lost, that you still have some humanity left, so start from that spark of humanity and go from there. You laugh while reading the article, you laugh so hard you cry, you cry and empathize with other people on this forum because we're all going through the same thing in some form or another, and the feelings will snowball back into you.

This article, "The Myth of Spiritual Enlightenment" speaks to my heart and makes me cry, perhaps because deep down I know it's true, and also delivered in such a genuinely loving way. You can tell by the tone. Yet I need to revisit it again and again to remind myself of these things, because the sheer popularity of the new-age movement influences me enough so that I unwillingly believe the new age authors.

I hope I have been helpful in some small way, and if there is anything you need, feel free to contact me anytime, because there is strength in numbers.

Your new friend,

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Re: I want Eckhart Tolle out
Posted by: Christa ()
Date: November 01, 2010 03:18PM

Brynhild, thank you for an excellent post. The only thing I'd add is exit counseling. A knowledgeable, well-trained, experienced exit counselor can really speed up the healing process.

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Re: I want Eckhart Tolle out
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: November 01, 2010 06:27PM

'You know how sometimes the most humorous things have rings (more like alarm bells) of truth to them? Also, the fact that you can still laugh shows that all is not lost, that you still have some humanity left, so start from that spark of humanity and go from there.'

That's brilliant advice.

I would also suggest that instead of looking at the perceived 'emotional flatness' as a negative state that you must struggle to get out of--try seeing it instead as the natural rest period of the mind after all the energetic attempts to force-feed it Tolle's newage nonsense.

If you can let your mind alone for a bit without trying to tell it what it should be feeling, it will surprise you by slowly showing interest in other, unrelated, things.
You might find out what really interests you, instead of what Tolle or any other self-appointed authority dictates should interest you.

At the very least, you will discover a better, less antagonistic, way of relating to the only mind you will ever have.

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Re: I want Eckhart Tolle out
Posted by: Brynhild Tudor ()
Date: November 02, 2010 03:22AM

As a friend said, you know, this new age crap would all be hysterically, hilariously funny if it weren't so painful. The marketing stratigies and psychological tactics these people use... sheer brilliance. Shame they had to use them to manipulate people without their knowledge or consent, instead of using them for the betterment of society. You gotta hand it to them, in a sick way. Don't get me started on Oprah! I hate her, but everyone I know loves her, and her mere popularity makes me feel like I'm missing the boat. She was interviewing an obscure person-turned-celebrity (I think it was the mistress of some politician), and she spouted a Mayou Angelo quote "when you know better you do better" in response to her interviewee's regret about getting involved in the situation. The thing was, she spouted that comment like it was an automated, drummed-in phrase, but at the same time sounded frustrated that people didn't think the way she did. Know what I mean? Dr. Phil does the same thing, only his judgmental attitude is way easier to spot than hers, despite his words to the contrary. As a poster on this forum (Thank you Pegasus!) suggested I do, I'm now looking at people's actions and lifestyle, rather than their words alone. I take people at face value and believe their words, and am only just starting to realize how dangerous that can be. I'm beginning to see how hilarious these authors are, that they may be able to write books and articles touging words of wisdom and talk the talk at the conferences and classes. But their actions and behavior are completely different offstage or in private.

Their failure or hesitancy to disclose their pasts is another big clue. Case in point: You never hear Dr. Phil talk about his past, he gets defensive and finds justifications for his own righteousness when questioned by guests, and the only questions he receives when people ask him about his life are humorous and lighthearted, while he asks guests to bear their souls to him with some pretty deep, heavy, intimate stuff, as the audience claps to show their support of how courageous the guest is. He's always right, yet manipulates guests into giving the correct answer to his question "do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?" The correct answer is "right", by the way. He berates them for not enthusiastically following his advice, and his sarcasm is apparent, yet people follow him like he's gospel. He was quite sarcastic and rude on his first episode of the Dr. Phil Housewives and nobody picked that up but me.

I grew up with a physically and verbally abusive father who used sarcasm (still does), and my family doesn't express emotions well. I did, but that got squelched real fast, and still does in today's society. While attending a summer program for people with disabilities when I was a teenager, we had to stand up with a microphone in front of everyone and tell them the skills we learned that day, which included grooming yourself, eating correctly, holding your fork the right way, etc. I felt humiliated, though the staff said I should feel grateful. And every revelation by the students was followed by applause, too, so that was a sick, twisted kind of positive reenforcement, that still affects me now. As a child, of O said something deemed offensive by the staff or other children, or if I was considered bossy, my classmates (kids) would surround me on the playground and point out my personality and character flaws, and the error of what I'd said/done, until I was in tears. This was also done to me when I was in college. While in high school I had to stand before the entire social studies class and publicly apologize for my stance on a project regarding premarital sex (the teenage mother was offended though I warned her beforehand and showed her my chart to back up my argument against it.) I just now learned that all these behaviors are psychological tactics designed to break you down and change you as a person, or, as state social workers put it, "to integrate you into society." My vission teacher write in my yearbook "I know I made a lot of changes in you, but they're for the better." When telling a state social worker was done to me as a child at school, she said something along the lines of, "well, you probably had personality characteristics and behaviors you needed to change." They are the same tactics cults use, and when I read them, they brought back painful memories.
But I was not aware they were psychological tactics used by people in power, whether they are in cults or society in general.

This whole thing would be funny if it weren't so sad, you know? I'm still assertive, and have never lost that quality, though people don't like it, yet they're the ones who tell me I must be assertive in the first place! Then there's the multitude of stories I have of dealing with administration. Expert businesspeople if there ever was one, but the most fake, manipulative people I've ever seen, even though they come off as genuinely real at first. They're called businesspeople, and for good reason. They care about the business, not the people.

So I was prime cult material, though I should've seen it coming but didn't. I joined the new age movement because I was sick and tired in society to get my needs and desires met. And as we all know, the new age has 2 options: Those who support it say it's unpleasant emotional clearing work that never ends (not fun. Kinda depressing actually). Or else it promises an easy way to make all your dreams come true (which doesn't work, and it's always because of something you're doing wrong, according to them. Which is also depressing.) You never get it wrong in the sense that you never get it right and are always reaching for a goal that is forever beyond your grasp, designed, the new agers say, to keep you moving forward, because if you reached your goal you wouldn't move forward anymore. You'd be done, so why bother, they say. Life is about the journey and not the destination. I swear that is a sick, twisted way of supporting unattainable goals.

My next challenge is to let go of "detachment." You know, that nnew-age buzzword that I imagine Tolle and countless other gurus use that says, "state in detail what you want but let go of the desired outcome." The whole point of wanting something is that you do care about the outcome, otherwise you wouldn't have wanted it. This is another twisted concept that I think I've figured out, and it came to me in a way that made logical sense, and it came to me in an analogy, no less. So if you want to know, ask me and I'll tell you. Maybe it'll help other people escape Tolle's web, among others.

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Re: I want Eckhart Tolle out
Posted by: Calm ()
Date: November 02, 2010 03:45AM

Thanks for everyone for the advice especially Brynhild Tudor. I am also glad that I am not the only one going through the samething.

What concerns me is many gurus say "Enlightenment" is a permanant state. Once you reach this state it's forever or it's hard to get out of. I also wonder if this "high" like state I experience where I go around in a daze is some sort of hypnosis state. The question is how do you stop falling into these "blank mind" states? I haven't done anything in terms of meditation or anything Spiritual in nature for months now but If I relax and let go I fall back into a blank apathy state with no thoughts. Another concern of mine is I can't seem feel my thoughts anymore, daydreaming and deep thinking is more difficult than before. The truth is I have always been quiet and very resereved but I still had a lot of feelings, I still had phases of depression, happiness, exictement for things. I barely remember what these feelings were like. For me it is mostly just going through the motions.

Maybe I am going mad but I swear before I got into any of this New Age stuff I had thoughts all the time, infact I often found nights I couldn't sleep because of thinking so much, now funnily enough I get to sleep almost instantly and my thinking seems detached in some way like I am observing my thoughts but can't actually identify with them and actually "feel" them and what I am thinking.

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Eckhart Tolle , Enlightenment salesman
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: November 02, 2010 07:16AM

The bottom line is that when Gurus say "enlightenment" is a permanent state...its a fraud. A lie, a con-game, a salespitch, an illusion, a fraud, a delusion.

These Gurus are not "enlightened". Time and time again, they are shown to be play-actors, prancing around on-stage acting like they are special beings, and selling enlightenment.
In fact, they are usually very screwed up people. Greedy, dishonest, angry and abusive to their own acolytes.
Some of them are pill-poppers, boozers and worse.
Some of them are having sex with their closest followers, and robbing others blind.
Many of them actually sit around all day playing video games, that has been shown time and again.

Its a fraud.
You set up a illusion/delusional straw-man called "Enlightenment".
Then you play-act on TV and stage.
Then tell people to buy your stuff, so they can become Happy like your fake-enlightenment.
It doesn't work.
GREAT, that means buy more stuff, and try harder.
Doesn't work?
Its your fault, so come to their retreat for 50K and get used and abused some more.

Eckhart Tolle is not "enlightened". Its at best a delusion and illusion, and more realistically a simple fraud.

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Re: I want Eckhart Tolle out
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 02, 2010 11:37AM

This is a great article and is worth reading in its entirety. Here are a few tiny excerpts to whet the readers appetite



Cult belief systems present a vision in which any individual, through following the group's teachings, can begin to realise their own higher potential. Believers begin to aspire to a 'new life' or a 'new self', based on these ideals. At the same time as they begin to aspire to this improved new self, believers begin to see their old self, their pre-cult personality, as having fallen short of the ideal. An old self - new self dichotomy can grow up within a cult member's mind, as they gradually eschew beliefs and behaviour associated with their old self, and adopt attitudes and affiliations that seem appropriate for their new self. They may even come to see their unreformed old self as the enemy of their emerging new self.

A cult does not control its members by using external coercion.

It is the belief system itself which is the primary active agent in cult mind control.

(Corboy some term this 'soft power')

The controlling of mind is done by the person themselves, as they attempt to discipline their mind and reform their personality, in accordance with the tenets of their new belief system.

Effectively, a cult uses a person's own energy and aspirations against them.

This analysis proposes the term 'Bi-polar mind control' to denote a generic class of 'devious psychological techniques' used by cult organisations to gain and control adherents. Essentially, bi-polar mind control works by encouraging an aspirant to identify with an imagined ideal new self, and then, from the perspective of this new self, to see their old self as comparatively inferior and flawed.



Cults have to compete to market their belief systems and gain adherents, just as ordinary commercial organisations have to compete to market their products or services and gain customers. Indeed some of the marketing techniques are not entirely dissimilar. Commercial businesses often use aspirational marketing techniques, promoting their products and services to potential customers by implying that purchase of a particular product will enhance an owner's self esteem and social status. Consumers are sometimes encouraged to measure their own self-worth in terms of the quality of their possessions.

However, cults have two significant marketing advantages compared with a normal commercial organisation, because of the intangible nature of the 'product' they market. The product which a cult markets is its belief system, together with the attitudes and behaviour codes that are part of that belief system.

The first marketing advantage enjoyed by a cult is that, as a quasi-religious organisation, it is protected from outside investigation, by a legal system which attempts to protect freedom of religion and freedom of belief. Broadly, freedom of religion allows cults to use their own self-referential ethical codes to justify their own behaviour, and to remain unaccountable to any outside agency. There are no consumer protection laws to regulate the marketing of personal or religious belief, and no independent quality control of the product.

A second advantage enjoyed by a cult stems from the fact that it does not really operate in the public domain; it operates primarily within the private and subjective realm of a person's mind. Both the actual product marketed by a cult, and any consequences resulting from purchase or use of the product, are largely subjective and intangible in nature. This means that no criticisms of the allegedly harmful effect that a cult's belief system may have had upon a member's mind or behaviour can ever be proved objectively, because the whole subject of personal belief is by nature largely or entirely subjective, and therefore unprovable either way. So long as the burden of proof remains with the critic, a cult can never lose.

In order to examine how these two advantages characteristically enjoyed by a cult, can give a cult organisation an unfair advantage over individuals to whom they promote and market their belief systems, and can enable them to use possibly devious processes of persuasion when recruiting new members, this analysis now moves on to look more closely at the nature of cult belief systems, and how they differ from conventional belief systems.



A cult, in comparison, tends to have little or no underlying respect for established belief systems. Holding their own partly or wholly self-originated belief system in high esteem, cult leaders and their followers tend to disdain existing belief systems as inferior and outmoded, and will consequently tend to separate off or isolate themselves from the mainstream more than a sect. A cult will tend to either invent completely new scriptures or tenets of belief, or at least to radically reinterpret existing scriptures and tenets.

Cult leaders may claim some special revelation or insight which is accessible to them, but not to those outside the group. They may claim a special ability to go back to first principles and to practice a more pure version of the tradition, or claim a special ability to re-interpret traditional teachings in a way which is more appropriate for the modern world

This other post, especially on page two is interesting.


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