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Re: I want Eckhart Tolle out
Posted by: alyb45 ()
Date: November 03, 2010 12:49PM

corboy excellent article!!

I really liked....

The controlling of mind is done by the person themselves, as they attempt to discipline their mind and reform their personality, in accordance with the tenets of their new belief system.

I find this is exactly how Tolle works.....such cult tactics.

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Re: I want Eckhart Tolle out
Posted by: Calm ()
Date: November 04, 2010 03:15AM

Some weeks ago upon trying to find some clear explanation about what I am experiencing I came across one the best articles describing this "emotionally blank" state. The following article sums up pretty much what I believe is exactly what I am going through and have been experiencing for almost a year now. Basically the emotional energy behind my thoughts and feelings seems like it has gone, perhaps maybe for good. Even when I go into deep thought and ponder the affective energy just isn't there anymore like it once was. If I tell myself I am a failure, a loser or that I am a great person there is barely much feeling behind them. I have been told recently "you are so calm", "mr unflappable" this is likely due the fact I litterally can't be affected by my thoughts at least not for long.

As a result of this change I feel like my mind is too clear (empty). Maybe someone can understand what I am describing or trying to explain.

The "loss of the affective ego" explains this state.


I would appreciate your views on this.


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Re: I want Eckhart Tolle out
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: November 04, 2010 03:24AM


The article you linked to is unattributed and reads like "New Age" mumbo jumbo.

Perhaps you are simply suffering from depression.

You should seek help from a licensed professional counselor in your local area, rather than unattributed speculations at a Web site.

The people here at the message board are not able to provide the trained professional help you seem to need.

You might also discuss this with your doctor and listen to what he or she recommends.

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Re: I want Eckhart Tolle out
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: November 04, 2010 04:57AM

yikes, that article is a mess, can't even get through it.
The website is selling all sorts of New Age products. []
The website reads like Tolle Mach II.
Creating confusion and ambiguity, and then link to more products/books/DVD's to confuse you some more.

As has always been said, if someone is having some significant issues, like any serious medical issue requires a MD, then those serious psychological issues requires investigation by ethical, licensed, trained professionals, who do that work for a living.
If something has been going on for weeks, never mind years, then a trained professional should be able to figure out what is going on.

Here is an article on depression. []

If anyone is having significant problems, then seeking help in person from a trained professional can really help.
But the same healthy critical thinking needs to be used with them as well.

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Re: I want Eckhart Tolle out
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 04, 2010 09:23AM

Dear aly and other readers:

That article is an old and helpful item written by and for former members of the Friends of the Western Buddhist Order (FWBO)--been around for years.

Every so often it helps to wuote and give URLs for what I like to term Golden Oldies.

A tip:

Any time you find something useful on the web, make a copy yourself in the form of a word document and if necessary, print it out. Good items can disappear and keeping copies in Word and then making hard copies is the one way to be sure you can have access to them when you need 'em.

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Re: I want Eckhart Tolle out
Posted by: alyb45 ()
Date: November 04, 2010 11:02AM

on a lighter note..

I found a funny parody that the band "Foo Fighters" do in regards to a guru.

It's so funny. if you want to laugh check it out!


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Re: I want Eckhart Tolle out
Posted by: Brynhild Tudor ()
Date: November 04, 2010 12:50PM

Hey Calm,
I understood every word of that article and know exactly what you are saying. That's *exactly* what the new age movement wants. You'd be the poster child. Things happen but they don't affect you emotionally, right???
The new agers would congratulate you. That state is exactly what they want. They call it peace, but I see nothing peaceful about it at all. The moderator's right, it's pure new age mumbo-jumbo. Here are some things that might help:

1. Just for fun, imagine if everyone in the world had that state you've achieved. Can you imagine would the world would be like? Nobody being emotionally affected by other people or world events? Think about it. Do you *really* want to live in a world like that???

2. Do you believe in angels or spirit guides? If you do, ask them to help you. That's what I did. And it led me here.

3. Read "The Giver" by Lois Lowry. It's a great depiction of what the world would be like when people have no emotions. Very thought-provoking.

4. Think of, look at, or listen to something/someone funny and laugh as much as you can. That will prove you can still feel. It's almost like you have to train yourself to feel again. I listen to music and let it affect me when it happens. It takes awhile. When it doesn't happen the first few times, it's scary and unnerving, but keep trying and it'll happen.

You are numb now. Cults love mind-numbing experiences. You know when you go to the dentist and they give you novacaine? Well, you're so drugged up, my friend, and they shot you up with so much of it that it looks permanent, but it isn't. It's temporary. It'll go away eventually, hopefully sooner rather than later. You just have to wait till it wears off, and do things that'll evoke feeling to pass the time. You'll know it's wearing off by the little prickly pins-&-needles sensation of feelings you'll get, and eventually that'll give way to your real self.

I got involved with new age because it looked so wonderful. A world without all the negativity and crap of earthly life. But now, I'm not so sure.

An idyllic world without the negativity of earthly life may exist. But not here. Maybe it's the afterlife. But it's definitely not here.

So you do the best with what you have here now, even though it isn't always fun. And if an ideal afterlife exists, you'll go there when it's your time, but you're not about to jump out a window to get there. And if it doesn't exist, well, then at least you can have a balanced perspective of life and say "parts of it I liked, parts of it I didn't." And if someone asks you ultimately whether you loved it or hated it, whether it was good or bad, you can say, "If I got everything I wanted and circumstances were the way I wanted, I would've loved it. If it were a horrible world and I got along with nobody and had no friends and despised everything I did, I would've hated it. But since earth is a mixed bag, I have mixed feelings about it. It's nice, it could be better, it's not perfect. But I will not lie and say that overall I loved something when I truly did not like every single little thing about it."

That, to me, is my honest outlook on life. And I'm seen as immature for thinking that way.

New agers say that you either accept life on its own terms, embrace both sides of it, love it for what it is, enough, in some cases, to come back, if you believe in reincarnation and that sort of thing. Or, they say, if life isn't giving you what you want, you can create anything you desire. I disagree with both of these camps. With the first one, you're *embracing* all the crap life hands you. If you think about the word "embrace" it means to draw closer to you, to welcome something, and I'm not going to openly welcome something I don't enjoy experiencing, or that causes me pain. But I meet new agers who have the "embrace and be grateful for negativity" all the time. Know what I think of them? Their voices have this fake happiness, this insincere quality about them. They're a bunch of flaky space cadets! If they do show emotions, it's an "I'm grateful I'm so sad. Yay!" kind of thing. Noone in their right mind would welcome sadness, give me a break! They're in self-denial! And maybe that explains why such a high number of them have mental illness. And they want you to become just like them!

I saw a 20/20 program on orgasmic childbirth. I'm not kidding. These women had these space-cadet sounding "the pain brings me pleasure and I'm so grateful for it and eventually I have a wonderful experience once I learn how to get past the initial stages" thing. I can just imagine their big, round eyes. And they were trying to convince everyone else to do it, and couldn't believe why anyone would want to be "artificially blissed out" on drugs when nature's way is so much better. It wasn't the fact that they were participating in this way that clearly worked for them that bugged me (hey, more power to you, I say.) The thing that bothered me was they couldn't conceive of anyone else feeling differently from themselves (try it, you'll love it once you learn how" they say. And they refused to accept any other viewpoints as vallid, or take critical inquiry of their stance, or be realistic and say, "it works for us, but not for everyone, and that's okay. Drugs are a good thing, they have their place for women who can benefit, not all women want to learn our method." That would be a balanced, honest perspective.

I'm telling you all this because despite being quintessential new agers if there ever was one, they represent the people that would congratulate you on achieving what they'd consider to be the ideal state of human existence. They refuse to believe that not everybody wants to exist in that way forever.
Nobody in their right mind would think the way the new agers do. That's probably why they have problems with their minds and wind up, in some cases, in mental hospitals in the first place.


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Re: I want Eckhart Tolle out
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: November 04, 2010 02:13PM

Another topic is Dissociation. []
A type of extreme detachment, dissociation and numbness has been reported by many people involved with the Byron Katie material.

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Re: I want Eckhart Tolle out
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: November 04, 2010 05:40PM

Here is a useful quote to remember, from David Baldwin, a trauma specialist:


'Almost everyone dissociates to some degree, as this illusion illustrates. Dissociation is a fairly normal coping strategy in the face of overwhelming stress, but extreme dissociative tendencies may be pathological.'

The illustrated illusion is from a Magritte painting, The Field Glass:


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Re: I want Eckhart Tolle out
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 05, 2010 12:55AM


The controlling of mind is done by the person themselves, as they attempt to discipline their mind and reform their personality, in accordance with the tenets of their new belief system.

Okay. Lets read a report written some years ago by a person who attended a satsang with Tolle.

You need to read the whole thing. But...notice this paragraph:

"Tons of people still showing up at the door, tickets in hand, being told "We have no more seats..." This seemed to raise some irritation and ire among the ingressing masses. Some individuals more vociferous than others, as always. But I could detect the strain of New Ager's trying to keep their spiritual cool under the hammer of mundane resource-scarcity pressure."

Look again, people.

'I could detect the strain of New Agers trying to keep their spiritual cook under the hammer of mundane resource scarcity pressure."

Now, back to the quote that aly liked so much from the FWBO Advantages Enjoyed By Cults article.

"The controlling of mind is done by the person themselves, as they attempt to discipline their mind and reform their personality, in accordance with the tenets of their new belief system. "

Readers, was this actually mundance resource scarcity going on here?

Am here to tell you all that this seat shortage anxiety does not have to happen. Some years ago I attended a two day lecture by the Dalai Lama.

It started on time and ended on time. We had to wait in line but I did not feel any anxiety. We got our assigned seats and there was never at any time a question of seat shortage.


This is one time when I decided to shout.

Talking and teaching the power of now and being a total slob and bad host and causing anxiety about shortage of seats--thats a mind fuck/Catch 22 for the people who have made you rich and are trusting you to help them--not fuck them over further.

If Tolle puts all this planning and thought into marketing his ass, he can take that same trouble to prevent seat shortages and anxiety for his followers who arrive to hear him twaddle.

This also includes reports on Byron Katie and Gangji) go to the link and read the whole thing if you want all three--C



Eckhart Tolle Session Mar 29, 2003

I turned up an hour early for Eckhart Tolle's scheduled appearance at a New Age church facility in Los Angeles (Culver City).

My ticket was general seating, so I figured I'd arrive waaaay early, an hour early in fact, to secure a near-front location. I consider location an important tactical element for these events, based on my theory that these enlightened types may be shedding some kind of emanative energy which could lead to a pleasant and possibly permanent contact high, thus sparing me a lot of blood, sweat, and sneers in my own chase after the big E.

One block from the event, I get my first clue - Tolle is a Big League Player! Uniformed traffic directors all over, gesturing a long line of cars into a distant side lot, the traffic already beginning to snarl.

I park and scoot into the venue, dodging the milling throngs, get my ticket marked by one of the phalanx of ticket takers, stroll blissfully into the (cavernous, church-ified warehouse of a) meeting hall - only to find ALL the "good" seats including the entire center section and most of the remote wing sections on either side pasted with "RESERVED" signs and prohibitive tape and ropes.

So I creatively, grabbed a chair from the far back and slid it up as an innocent appendage to the end of an existing center-section row.

Lucky I'd got there early though, as when it came up to within 15 minutes of show time, the question wasn't getting a GOOD seat, it was getting ANY seat.

Tons of people still showing up at the door, tickets in hand, being told "We have no more seats..." This seemed to raise some irritation and ire among the ingressing masses. Some individuals more vociferous than others, as always. But I could detect the strain of New Ager's trying to keep their spiritual cool under the hammer of mundane resource-scarcity pressure.

Eventually that problem was solved by opening up two large virgin sections of choir seating on stage behind Tolle's (prospective) chair.

The audience seemed more gender-balanced than either Katie's (f/m 80/20) or Gangaji's (f/m 70/30), at about f/m 60/40. Women always seem to predominate at these things ?

On the stage/platform itself, there was little stagecraft, just the obligatory paired vases of Satsang-Love-In flowers, a simple (audience-identical) four legged chair, a standing mic at chair level, and a smallish table to the chair's right, with water glass.

The event began a bit late, what with all the filing in and seat hunting. Finally the doors were shut, it got quiet... I was absorbed in some day-dreaming, NOT in the present moment - and when I looked back up on stage - there he was, already standing there, bathed in spotlight, adjusting the standing mic. A smallish and physically unprepossessing guy, I'm sure most of you know. Humble and gentle in appearance and mannerisms. He sat and composed himself, and didn't begin to talk for another 5 minutes or so.

The entire audience of TWELVE HUNDRED PEOPLE (at $75 a shot!) fell reverentially quiet.

After a relatively short opening-silence stint, Eckhart began to speak quietly, in a near-monotone. His voice is gentle, lulling, not unpleasant - approximating 2001's HAL 9000 computer voice, but layered with a touch of soft German accent and the occasional flash of a humorous twinkle.

Kind of an elfin type (though decidedly not a Legolas in the looks department... but hey I'm not exactly Paul Newman myself)

He began with a somewhat interesting riff about "how you might be feeling right now", referring to the just-past ticket snafu's. He said that those frustrations ("What do you mean there are no more seats ?! I've got a ticket!!) were a good practice opportunity for awareness, for saying "yes" to the "form of the present moment". Observe any frustration in yourself, feel how the righteous anger strengthens the small mind, confirming the ego's "rightness" - feel the strengthening yet hardening, almost contraction, of your energy field, the effect on your body, etc.

Of course, absolutely none of the above applied to me at all, as I'd gotten an OK seat long before game time ... Hahaha!

Just kidding, of course he meant it to apply to all of us, and to any other frustration. I only mention it because he returned to this narrative about the ticket frustrations several times throughout the evening.

Lately I've begun to realize that a Satsang, or quasi-Satsang, or pseudo-Satsang or whatever these are, needs to be "evaluated" (if at all) on a couple different levels. The "small (egoic) mind" always needs to judge right ? That's what I'll be doing here.

From the "small mind's" point of view, the intellect that is, most or all of what Eckhart said would be considered platitudes, New Age truisms, or just common sense. He talked for example about themes such as "people who can't give up the role of being a mother or father - even when the child is already 30" (shocking!) or "when you do anything even something trivial, like buying a newspaper, treat it as a chance to engage another equal being with your full attention" or "children get taught labels too early, before they have a chance to fully observe and appreciate a 'tree' they learn to label, categorize, and forget trees'. Now all the above themes (developed at some length) are certainly true and valuable insights... but - honestly - fairly tame stuff.

Of course, my saying it is 'tame' or 'common sense' - all that is just mind-chatter, the shallow and supercilious "intellect" (such as mine is LOL!) compulsively slapping down, judging, comparing, carping, etc.

Yep, I know it.

Tolle himself gets major self-awareness points for stating at the outset that "your mind will feel bored and restless in this session... and it won't excite your emotions either" I mean, what can one say to that ?

Yes, overall it WAS fairly boring, at the level of mind or intellect. You might as well have stayed home and read - I don't know - possibly "Conversations with God" or something ? Or Jonathan Livingston Seagull ? Or hey just stay home and read Tolle's own book (which delivers all his concepts in a far superior fashion than his talk last night, but I don't hold that against him, as I believe he correctly assumed that he was addressing an audience of those in-the- know, and already-on-board.)

So another level of analysis, for me at least, is energetic. I do sometimes get a major, directly palpable energy hit from certain teachers. Unfortunately, I didn't feel much of that from Eckhart either. Maybe I was seated too far away ? Rather than feeling hyper-alert, I began to feel drowsy and dozy before half way through. Bit of an ordeal actually, three hours of that, with Eckhart just a small distant figure on the stage.

The (dare I say it?) boredom was compounded by the fact that of the 3 guru's surveyed, Eckhart had the least audience participation, that is to say, zero. None whatsoever! Swept onto the stage, sat, talked for just shy of 3 hours, "Thank you thank you", down off the stage, quickly through the center aisle to the main door, flanked by nervous-looking attendants on all side, into a waiting semi-limo type car - whoosh he's OUTTA there... But again highly understandable, as frankly what would the audience do if he hung around ? Just blather and bother him with all their dumbass personal baggage and "problems". So I do genuinely sympathize with him on this point... However, it WOULD have been nice if a few vetted "philosophical" type questions from the audience had been permitted... would have helped keep me awake at least.

It got more interesting in certain stretches. Being in LA, I guess he thought he should address some local concerns, so he talked a little about how in his 20's he'd always wanted to be "recognized" and "appreciated" by the world. But the world never did. Then he said the irony of it is that now "The world thinks I'm great" (appreciative laughter from audience) but that this outcome, now, really doesn't matter at all. He said (tad wistfully?) that being a nobody, unknown to the world, is actually a wonderful thing. He related that bit of personal stuff to an archetypal LA story, going on at some length about how you might today be working as a waiter or waitress and then be suddenly discovered by a major director, end up "moving to Beverly Hills" - then realizing you are still the same person... not satisfied, because "the world of form is not stable"... it can't last, etc. It began to get slightly trite again (<== small, egoic mind Judgement Alert!!)

I did encounter one major insight, a really interesting point he made that indeed seemed to blow my mind somewhat and really woke me up at least. I'm probably not doing this justice, but anyway essentially he made the point that when we look out into space (normal, you know, stars and stuff) there are two kinds of things going on there. There's all the stars, planets, comets and what not, which are the forms or objects, and then there is ... well, there's space. That from out of which all the stuff arises. And he compared that situation to our internal experience of thoughts, constantly streaming, but there's always a huge background field always present, out of which they arise. And then he linked that back to present moment appreciation, the Now, saying that if you resent and resist "the form that the present moment takes" you will never be able to see past that form, into the ever-present Space from which the present moment eternally arises ...

Wow ! Now THAT was cool stuff! I'm probably not catching it right in my description above, please refer to Eckhart's existing or planned published materials for the real deal (don't recall reading this in his existing books, or hearing it on the CD's), but I've summarized it here in the context of saying that that portion really DID seem to open up my brain and perceptions, like a drug. The effect lasted from that segment of his talk until next morning, but is now wearing away. Oh well, it was fun. And I think it is an interesting idea/practice to work with in the future ... maybe he will go into that further in his next book.

[How they stack up]

That was cool!

Overall though, perhaps due to the crowds, the distance, the 'boring' format, whatever, this was the least interesting and 'charging' of my "Big 3" Satsang attendances. Maybe that just means my mind is desperately trying to drag me away from this guy as it senses that HERE, after all, lies the truly greatest threat to its small-time ego shell game... ??

In the personality/presence sweepstakes, the Win, Place, and Show trophies all go to ... Byron Katie !! Yep, she has by far the most interesting, cool, riveting, kick-ass personality of the three, magnetic, genuine, interesting... what can I say, somehow "real" in a more palpable way than the other two (Eckhart, Gangaji). And, definitely not afraid to grapple with anything anybody wanted to say... she had no message really, other than her 4 questions that fit on an index card, just pure audience work. Yet despite her engaging charisma, she never seemed at all phony or manipulative - she seemed like a woman who has simply arrived at her true self. With her winning personality and riveting work-the-crowd style, the exact opposite of Eckhart. Well I know I shouldn't be comparing them. So sue me.

As for the energetics area, Gangaji easily steals the show. Alone of the three, she absolutely radiated a completely obvious and fully charged energy field that was almost instantly detectable, constant throughout the session, warm strong and just so OBVIOUS. She was all energy.

But in the "message" department, despite the boring session I've just described, I think Eckhart, based on his books, is the MAN. His writing is so clear, simple and useful, I don't see how you can beat it as a fully accessible step-by-step walk-through of the concepts, showing exactly how our own egoic mind possesses us like a demon, uses us like donkeys, and basically laughs at us like fools for not seeing through all the stupid games. It is just so easy to see (in other people at least), once you've read Eckhart's book


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