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Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by: Guru Patrol ()
Date: November 19, 2010 11:34PM

Dear Corboy,

Allow me to explain the function/role/nature of the Guru from within the tradition perspective. You may reject the whole thing outright, but at least you and others will know where teachers and students from within these traditions are coming from.
In the Indian tradition, the Guru is a realised being -- one who has realised their true nature - that non-dual consciousness beyond egoic mind. There are many words and ways to describe truth in this tradition -- but this is the basic idea. The Guru is no longer the ego identified form and mind -- they have the constant knowing/experience that they are that One consciousness -- and that this is all there is truly -- they are no longer deceived by the egoic I misidentification.
The primary function of the Guru is to help others realise this truth for themselves -- by direct knowing/experience. There is a transmission between student and Guru, call it energetic or spiritual or whatever you like, which helps to clear away conditionings and help the unfolding along. The Guru has walked the path from start to end, and so is critical for helping the student steer clear of pitfalls and obstacles and stay focussed on the ultimate objective. What happens is, as the student begins to awaken to their true nature, they are naturally appreciative and grateful for this and want to give something in retutn to the teacher -- it is painfully obvious at this point that there is no way to repay that gift, but they wishat least to make a token gesture - whoch generally takes the form of dakshina or donation. This goes towards the functioning of the ashram and support of the Guru, the primary goal/motivation being the preservation and continuity of a path that one has experienced first-hand is genuinely transformative and beneficial to human kind. This system of dakshina or donation has been the way for thousands of years. In the West, and in the case of this Guru I'm sure, it has been noticed that there isn't the same culture of giving in place - and people often need reminders even if they mean well. Still many others are looking for a free ticket -- in this fast food me me culture - and the Guru knows that this isn't how the universe works. It is a natural law -- something for something. It was the same for great saints like Ramana Maharshi or Buddha or Jesus or whoever -- they all knew that something must be given for the transmission of truth. None could have cared less about money or material things. I think this Guru is simply doing the same thing - it's not at all extravagant -- and it's not even enforced - in general most students don't need to be reminded about giving - they are more than happy to do so of their own free will -- but some get lazy and forgetful - and need to be reminded that the universe isn't a free ride -- and that the Guru isn't there to amuse or entertain you.

As far as respect and leaving a Guru -- this is all standard fare. In a nutshell, the student should be (and generally is naturally) respectful of the Guru. After all, they didn't enter into a realtionship with a math tutor, they entered into a relationship with a spiritual teacher who wants only to help them realise their true nature. It's a whole other ball game. I'm not saying it's license for the Guru to mistreat the student - of course not - I'm saying there is an explicit purpose is willfully and knowingly entering into this dynamic -- and it will involve the egoic conditionings losing their grip and ultimately being blown out completely. As for leaving a Guru, it is similar to the donation aspect. It's not for the Guru's sake that it is said - if you leave a Guru -- do it gracefully and respectfully. Don't run out guns blaring and all the rest. There is no element of force here - she is saying you are most welcome to go on your way - you have Guru's blessings in your journey. But this won't be the case if you leave in a huff. That's all. Think what you want, but it has nothing to do with force or coercion or pressure to stay. A Guru has no desire to continue working with a student who doesn't wish to be there! It simply won't bear any fruit for the student and will cause friction in the group.

Bottom line -- for a genuine Guru, it's not about money, respect, or anything else. These things are in place for the student's sake. The Guru would be just as happy going off and enjoying realisation. Oftentimes, they are reluctant to teach in the first place, but were asked by their Guru to do so -- and out of respect and gratitude they agree to do so through thick and thin. A genuine Guru is a rare and priceless thing in this world. They are out there, but there are far more fakes. It doesn't stop the genuine seekers from searching far and wide for that Guru that will help them realise truth. There have always been realsied beings in the world. And there will likely continue to be. As long as there are seekers who need guidance on the path to realisation.

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Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by: Guru Patrol ()
Date: November 19, 2010 11:44PM

Wow Corboy - you are really pouring a lot of time and energy into this Guru - almost seems like you are an ex-student with a grudge - or perhaps would really like to believe in the Guru. hmm

As for your Hindu and Mahayana comments - this path appears to be primarily Hindu tantra with a little Tibetan tantra mixed in - and it's not unusual to see snippets from both as they are very similar traditions in many ways.

Still have to look over the rest of your long-winded rant. More in a bit.

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Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by: Guru Patrol ()
Date: November 19, 2010 11:48PM

Correction. This path appears to be primarily advaita with a hindu tantra flavor - some Buddhist tantra - but they are so interwoven anyway - so no surprises there.

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Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 19, 2010 11:53PM

"Private ownership of the mind and its products - of imagination or of memory - becomes highly immoral. " Robert J Lifton

Quote from Swami Guru G website


Psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton wrote that cults have these three characteristics:

(note-Lifton's list of criteria is longer than the three items quoted here. Lifton's actual list are eight

Milieu Control

Through this milieu control the totalist environment seeks to establish domain over not only the individual's communication with the outside (all that he sees and hears, reads or writes, experiences, and expresses), but also - in its penetration of his inner life - over what we may speak of as his communication with himself.

Mystical Manipulation

This manipulation assumes a no-holds-barred character, and uses every possible device at the milieu's command, no matter how bizarre or painful. Initiated from above, it seeks to provoke specific patterns of behavior and emotion in such a way that these will appear to have arisen spontaneously, directed as it is by an ostensibly omniscient group, must assume, for the manipulated, a near-mystical quality.

Ideological totalists do not pursue this approach solely for the purpose of maintaining a sense of power over others. Rather they are impelled by a special kind of mystique which not only justifies such manipulations, but makes them mandatory. Included in this mystique is a sense of "higher purpose," of having "directly perceived some imminent law of social development," --or (corboy suggests) "Crazy Wisdom"

The Demand for Purity

In the thought reform milieu, as in all situations of ideological totalism, the experiential world is sharply divided into the pure and the impure, into the absolutely good and the absolutely evil. The good and the pure are of course those ideas, feelings, and actions which are consistent with the totalist ideology and policy; anything else is apt to be relegated to the bad and the impure. Nothing human is immune from the flood of stern moral judgments. All "taints" and "poisons" which contribute to the existing state of impurity must be searched out and eliminated.

The philosophical assumption underlying this demand is that absolute purity is attainable, and that anything done to anyone in the name of this purity is ultimately moral.

The Cult of Confession

Closely related to the demand for absolute purity is an obsession with personal confession. Confession is carried beyond its ordinary religious, legal, and therapeutic expressions to the point of becoming a cult in itself. There is the demand that one confess to crimes one has not committed, to sinfulness that is artificially induced, in the name of a cure that is arbitrarily imposed. Such demands are made possible not only by the ubiquitous human tendencies toward guilt and shame but also by the need to give expression to these tendencies. In totalist hands, confession becomes a means of exploiting, rather than offering solace for, these vulnerabilities.

The totalist confession takes on a number of special meanings. It is first a vehicle for the kind of personal purification which we have just discussed, a means of maintaining a perpetual inner emptying or psychological purge of impurity; this purging milieu enhances the totalists' hold upon existential guilt. Second, it is an act of symbolic self-surrender, the expression of the merging of individual and environment. Third, it is a means of maintaining an ethos of total exposure - a policy of making public (or at least known to the Organization) everything possible about the life experiences, thoughts, and passions of each individual, and especially those elements which might be regarded as derogatory.

The assumption underlying total exposure (besides those which relate to the demand for purity) is the environment's claim to total ownership of each individual self within it. Private ownership of the mind and its products - of imagination or of memory - becomes highly immoral.

The "Sacred Science"

The totalist milieu maintains an aura of sacredness around its basic dogma, holding it out as an ultimate moral vision for the ordering of human existence. This sacredness is evident in the prohibition (whether or not explicit) against the questioning of basic assumptions, and in the reverence which is demanded for the originators of the Word, the present bearers of the Word, and the Word itself.

Loading the Language

The language of the totalist environment is characterized by the thought-terminating clich鮠 The most far-reaching and complex of human problems are compressed into brief, highly reductive, definitive-sounding phrases, easily memorized and easily expressed. These become the start and finish of any ideological analysis. In [Chinese Communist] thought reform, for instance, the phrase "bourgeois mentality" is used to encompass and critically dismiss ordinarily troublesome concerns like the quest for individual expression, the exploration of alternative ideas, and the search for perspective and balance in political judgments. And in addition to their function as interpretive shortcuts, these cliches become what Richard Weaver has called "ultimate terms" : either "god terms," representative of ultimate good; or "devil terms," representative of ultimate evil.

To be sure, this kind of language exists to some degree within any cultural or organizational group, and all systems of belief depend upon it. It is in part an expression of unity and exclusiveness: as Edward Sapir put it, "'He talks like us' is equivalent to saying 'He is one of us.'" The loading is much more extreme in ideological totalism, however, since the jargon expresses the claimed certitudes of the sacred science. Also involved is an underlying assumption that language - like all other human products - can be owned and operated by the Movement. No compunctions are felt about manipulating or loading it in any fashion; the only consideration is its usefulness to the cause.

For an individual person, the effect of the language of ideological totalism can be summed up in one word: constriction. He is, so to speak, linguistically deprived; and since language is so central to all human experience, his capacities for thinking and feeling are immensely narrowed. This is what Hu meant when he said, "using the same pattern of words for so long…you feel chained." Actually, not everyone exposed feels chained, but in effect everyone is profoundly confined by these verbal fetters. As in other aspects of totalism, this loading may provide an initial sense of insight and security, eventually followed by uneasiness. This uneasiness may result in a retreat into a rigid orthodoxy in which an individual shouts the ideological jargon all the louder in order to demonstrate his conformity, hide his own dilemma and his despair, and protect himself from the fear and guilt he would feel should he attempt to use words and phrases other than the correct ones. Or else he may adapt a complex pattern of inner division, and dutifully produce the expected clich駳 in public performances while in his private moments he searches for more meaningful avenues of expression. Either way, his imagination becomes increasingly dissociated from his actual life experiences and may tend to atrophy from disuse.

(Corboy this constriction, brought about by loaded language, will result in conditioned mind)

Doctrine Over Person

This sterile language reflects characteristic feature of ideological totalism: the subordination of human experience to the claims of doctrine. This primacy of doctrine over person is evident in the continual shift between experience itself and the highly abstract interpretation of such experience - between genuine feelings and spurious cataloguing of feelings.

The same doctrinal primacy prevails in the totalist approach to changing people: the demand that character and identity be reshaped, not in accordance with one's special nature or potentialities, but rather to fit the rigid contours of the doctrinal mold. The human is thus subjected to the ahuman. And in this manner, the totalists, as Camus phrases it, "put an abstract idea above human life, even if they call it history, to which they themselves have submitted in advance and to which they will decide arbitrarily, to submit everyone else as well."

The underlying assumption is that the doctrine - including its mythological elements - is ultimately more valid, true, and real than is any aspect of actual human character or human experience.

The Dispensing of Existence

The totalist environment draws a sharp line between those whose right to existence can be recognized, and those who possess no such right.

Totalists thus feel themselves compelled to destroy all possibilities of false existence as a means of furthering the great plan of true existence to which they are committed.

For the individual, the polar emotional conflict is the ultimate existential one of "being versus nothingness."

Existence comes to depend upon creed (I believe, therefore I am), upon submission (I obey, therefore I am) and beyond these, upon a sense of total merger with the ideological movement. Ultimately of course one compromises and combines the totalist "confirmation" with independent elements of personal identity; but one is ever made aware that, should he stray too far along this "erroneous path," his right to existence may be withdrawn.

re-read article on why a student may be asked to leave


So judge if you will ---- but be careful you don't dig a hole you cannot get out of for lifetimes... . Keep your tongue and either go forward in glad humility or leave quietly and seek what it is you think you need that you aren't finding here....

Do not judge less you be judged....

-----What does it mean that Guru can save you from God but none can save you from the Guru ????

It means that Guru gives the light and Grace which may turn your life around and mitigate much karma that you would have had to pay.... Guru brings a Transmission of GRACE...

When the Guru washes their hands of you then none may help you....



The Guru Swami G article continues:

A charismatic leader who becomes an object of worship* and ultimate authority.
- There is no one being worshiped and looked at as God ---Guru is a Guide to aide Sadhaka's to go beyond the conditioned mind to Discover the Reality that is the essence of Being... O-ne.

[quote(from the Guru G website)Devotional acts include serving the guru, prostrating daily and offering a gift in love, chanting his or her name and meditating on his or her inner form as the embodiment of the Divine, partaking of ucchishta-waters from his or her holy sandals, and his or her food leavings-emulating his or her awakened qualities, seeking initiation and striving for Self Realization as he directs.

Codes of harmony include seeking his or her blessings, obeying his or her directions, keeping no secrets and honoring his or her lofty presence.

Coercive persuasion; thought control.

- There is no one here attempting to create new conditioned mind in anyone.*
Economic, sexual, and other exploitation of members by the leader or leaders.

(Corboy)--it is interesting that economic, sexual 'and other' exploitation are mentioned, but nothing is clearly stated to exclude emotional battery. And for 'conditioned mind' one can substitute FEAR of losing the guru's good graces and FEAR of being believed to be critical of the guru and FEAR of being sent away--such as:


Prohibitions include never contradicting or arguing with the guru, never criticizing him or her, nor listening to criticism by others, not imitating his or her dress or deportment, not standing or sitting above him or her, nor walking or driving ahead of him or her; not assuming authority in his or her presence, nor uttering words of falsehood or contempt, and not initiating conversation or asking questions unless invited.

- Sexual exploitation - is most assuredly not in place. We lean towards celibacy and chastity. Economic exploitation? No one is forced to give anything.

Corboy: If people become emotionally dependent on the guru and getting advice from the guru and the only way to get advice from the guru is to pay money, the more anxious people are, the more they will be willing to pay as in



Guru Swami G is available for questions and consultation. The donation schedule is:
• Asking a question: $20 per question
• Consultation: $50 per 1/2 hour, $100 per hour.
If you have 'special circumstances' and cannot afford these amounts then send an email and explain what would be possible. If you decide you want to go forward with a question OR a consultation please use the donation button and send in your question to For consultations, please send your information, with a phone number or a Skype ID, along with a time frame (based on Eastern time), for Guru-G to get back to you.


OM Shanti Thank you -



What is a Cult?

At The Guardian, Eileen Barker argues that "In popular parlance, a cult is a religion I don't like; ... it is a group or movement of which I disapprove."
No one is likely to say that they themselves belong to a cult – what makes it a cult is that other people call it a cult. We know it's bad and wrong, but we don't know exactly what it is that is bad or wrong.

Certainly some people use the word "cult" that way. There are cult information websites that list Buddhism as a cult. But surely there are religious groups that are abusive and controlling, and others that are healing and sustaining. And many many are capable of being all of those.

Psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton wrote that cults have these three characteristics:

A charismatic leader who becomes an object of worship and ultimate authority.
- There is no one being worshiped and looked at as God ---Guru is a Guide to aide Sadhaka's to go beyond the conditioned mind to Discover the Reality that is the essence of Being... O-ne.
Coercive persuasion; thought control.
- There is no one here attempting to create new conditioned mind in anyone.
Economic, sexual, and other exploitation of members by the leader or leaders.
- Sexual exploitation - is most assuredly not in place. We lean towards celibacy and chastity. Economic exploitation? No one is forced to give anything.
Definitions of terms: Cults, Sects and Denominations
Quotations: "...if you believe in it, it is a religion or perhaps 'the' religio;and if you do not care one way or another about it, it is a sect;but if you fear and hate it, it is a cult." Leo Pfeffer. A humorous quotation, but one that is uncomfortably close to reality.

"Cults are claimed to be deceitful. They are claimed to be harmful to their members. They are claimed to be undermining American values. Cults are claimed to be just about every bad thing in the book these days, and with the pervasive images of Manson and Jim Jones hanging over us, any group that is called a cult is immediately associated with those two people." J. Gordon Melton.

"My working definition of a cult is a group that you don't like, and I say that somewhat facetiously, but at the same time, in fact, that is my working definition of a cult. It is a group that somebody doesn't like. It is a derogatory term, and I have never seen it redeemed from the derogatory connotations that it picked up in the sociological literature in the 1930s." J. Gordon Melton.
"A cult is a church down the street from your church." Anon
Meanings of the word "cult":

Many common religious terms lack a generally accepted, single, current definition. This leads to confusion over the meanings of certain religious terms, such as Christian, cult hell, heaven, occult, Paganism, salvation, Witch, Witchcraft, Unitarian, Universalist, Voodoo, etc. A reader must often look at the context in which the word is used in order to guess at the intent of the writer.

In the newsgroup alt.usage.english, terms like this one are often called "skunk words." They have diverse meanings to different people. They have so many meanings that they often cause misunderstandings wherever they are used. Unfortunately, most people do not know this, and naturally assume that the meaning that they have been taught is the universally accepted definition of the term.

The term "Unitarian" is a good example:
Pre-1776 CE: Belief in a single God and the rejection of the Christian concept of the Trinity.
Post-1775: A creedless and dogma-free religious organization. The Unitarian Universalist Association, (UUA) is an association of Unitarian congregations.
Utter confusion reigns when an author is using one definition of "Unitarian," while a reader assumes the other meaning. Misunderstandings also happen when an author assumes that both definitions refer to the same organization or belief.

One of the most confusing and dangerous religious term is "Cult". The word is derived from the French word "culte" which came from Latin noun "cultus." The latter is related to the Latin verb "colere" which means "to worship or give reverence to a deity." Thus, in its original meaning, the term "cult" can be applied to any group of religious believers: Southern Baptists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Roman Catholics, Hindus or Muslims. However, the term has since been assigned at least eight new and very different meanings. The original meaning of "cult" remains positive; more recent definitions are neutral, negative, or extremely negative:

Positive Meaning:
• Theological usage: Oxford English Dictionary defined "cult" as: "worship; reverential homage rendered to a divine being or beings"; "a particular form or system of religious worship; especially in reference to its external rites and ceremonies"

• Devotion or homage to a particular person or thing. This is the historical meaning of the word, but is rarely today heard outside of religious circles. A reference to the "Cult of Mary" appeared in a newspaper report on the Pope's 1999 visit to the Americas. It simply means that the Pope devotes special attention to the Virgin Mary.

• Cultural usage: The word is often associated with cult films, cult bands, or cult TV programs. Here, the term "cult" refers to a small but devoted following of a movie, entertainment group or television program. Avid supporters of Star Trek may be referred to as devoted cultists.
Neutral Meanings:
• Sociological usage: A small religious group that exists in a state of tension with the predominant religion. Hinduism might be considered a cult in North America; Christianity might be considered a cult in India.

• Additional sociological usage: An innovative, fervent religious group, as contrasted with more established and conventional sects and denominations.
• The Observer: An English newspaper seemed to use the term to refer to any small religious group, no matter what its age or teachings.

• General religious usage: A small, recently created, religious organization which is often headed by a single charismatic leader and is viewed as an spiritually innovative group. A cult in this sense may simply be a new religious movement on its way to becoming a denomination. The Christian religion, as it existed in 30 CE might be considered a cult involving one leader and 12 or 70 devoted disciples as followers. The Mormon denomination was started in the 19th century by Joseph Smith and a few followers; it met this definition of "cult" but has since grown to become an established denomination of about 15 million members.
Negative Meanings:
• Evangelical Christians and Counter-Cult Movement (CCM) usage: They define a cult as any religious group which accepts most but not all of the key historical Christian doctrines (e.g. the divinity of Jesus, virgin birth, the Trinity, salvation by faith, not works, etc.). The implication is that the cult's theology is invalid; they teach heresy. Under this definition, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons), Unification Church, Jehovah's Witnesses, and many others would be cults. But the CCM would not classify Wicca as such, because it is not associated with Christianity. The earliest use of this meaning of the word "Cult" is believed to be a 1938 book "The Chaos of the Cults" by J.K. VanBaalen. On the other hand, new religious groups such as the Mormons, Unification Church and Jehovah's Witnesses generally regard themselves to be the true Christian church. They view all other denominations as being in error. Thus, one group's true church is another group's cult. One group's heresy is the other group's orthodoxy.

• Fundamentalist Christian usage: Some Fundamentalists would accept the Evangelical definition of cult defined above. Others brand any religious group which deviates from historical Protestant Christian beliefs as a cult. This definition would include the LDS Church, Wicca, mainline and liberal Christian denominations, Islam, Hinduism, and all of the other religions of the world. The vast majority of humanity would belong to cults, by this definition.

• Anti-cult movement usage: The anti-cult movement (ACM) attempts to raise public consciousness about what they see as dangerous and authoritarian mind control cults and doomsday cults. Most do not care about the faith group's theology. They target only what they see as deceptive practices, and dangerous psychological pressure techniques, such as brainwashing. The ACM appears to hold opinions about the effectiveness of brainwashing that are not shared by the mental-health community generally. They see mind control/doomsday cults as a widespread social problem.
Very Negative Meaning:
• Popular, media usage: A cult is considered a small, evil religious group, often with a single charismatic leader, that engages in brainwashing and other mind control techniques, believes that the end of the world is imminent, and collects large amounts of weaponry in preparation for a massive war. The earliest use of this meaning of the word is believed to have been in a 1965 book by Walter Martin "The Kingdom of the Cults"

• Of course, if you are an author, public speaker or teleminister who wants to direct public fear and hatred against a new religious group, then "cult" is an ideal word to use. But the use of the term may be irresponsible and immoral, depending upon your system of values. We suspect, but cannot prove, that some Internet web sites, including many:

• Counter-cult groups -- those who mainly attack Christian denominations and sects which promote novel beliefs, and

• Anti-cult groups -- those who attack high-intensity new religious movements which require a strong commitment from their members,

• Intentionally use the term "cult" for manipulative purposes. They hope that their visitors will bring with them fear and loathing of dangerous faith groups, like the former Branch Davidians or Heaven's Gate, and transfer these negative feelings to such denominations as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the Jehovah's Witnesses.

• This web site normally refers only to "doomsday faith groups" -- ones who have experienced loss of life among their membership -- as "cults."

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Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 19, 2010 11:57PM



Corboy note if you substitute the word DOT the periods in the URL you get this:



Wednesday, 06 October 2010 13:43

If people think that Darshan and Transmission is a joke -- think again....

What is sad is when people think that because there is such easy access to a Sat Guru here (which is unprecedented) the ability to come for Darshan etc. is to be taken so lightly ---- almost as a second thought.

When it is seen that everything else in life comes first, and that to come here is put in the place of "well, i'm coming in the area for other things as so as long as i am up there guess i could drop in..." Now would this casual stance be taken and promoted with any other Spiritual Teacher and Adept?

Others would give anything to have the chance to spend one moment with their Guru --- as this isn't offered in any other path.... They are lucky if they get an audience with their Spiritual Path Head once in a lifetime --- so what is the lax attitude here?

Is it that this Guru doesn't get paraded around on a throne??? Is it that you don't have to go through hoops and restrictions and that there isn't a lot of pomp and circumstance so it is seen as too normal? Sat Guru is just another persona that maybe has a bit of advice that you can adopt?

Make no mistake --- Just because there aren't crowds - there isn't the parade --- fancy robes --- thrones --- contrived bowings --- or manufactured and prescribed ways that one must approach the Guru --- this doesn't mean that this is less valid, nor that it is to be taken lightly and abused by off-handed casualness in thinking that the Guru is here to cater to you and your whims......

A Sat Guru is a Sat Guru --- no less than any Rimpoche --- no less than any Guru that comes to town where all the pomp and circumstance is in place -----

Don't disrespect what is offered here - by relegating it to such off-handed thinking of "Well, think I'll go hang out or go take a look because I have extra time on my hands." There aren't Sat Guru's on every block ---- they aren't someone that has taken a class and is passing along what they have been taught....

A Sat Guru is there to Awaken and Enliven one and is holding within the palm of their hands the Pearl of Great Price....... Now if you can find this so easily then ok --- be casual and blow it off like just another chat group or just another person you can shoot the breeze with....

One either comes with Respect and Humility requesting this unheard of opportunity ---- or one just blows it off and misses the opportunity of a lifetime.....

Darshan is a gift ---- it's an opportunity to come into an energy field that changes one at the cellular level......One should come in a way to honor that --- one should come in a way that this is taken to Heart ---

Guru Sri Rajiv insisted that Any coming to Satsang Arrive No Later than 15 minutes before start time. There is to be silent meditation while waiting for Satsang to begin... NO interrupting or speaking out of turn is allowed... IF You don't show up on time --- turn around and go home and DON"T walk in and disturb those who have taken the care to arrive on time..

Seekers aren't to come to Satsang for expressing their **views*** as this isn't a debate or chat session... One is coming to have the opportunity to have association with Truth...

If you are not a Sage or Guru then one is to be Still -- to be Silent.

If there is a Sincere question then raise the hand and when acknowledged * then * you may speak and ask your question or for clarification... This does not mean you have the latitude to give your view points as you are seeking Truthand not living from Truth... Sages and Guru's are giving from Direct Living Realization not from a personal viewpoint or opinion..

***** If you choose to violate ANY of these rules then the privilege of Satsang will no longer be extended to you ... *****


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Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 19, 2010 11:59PM

I dont buy it and since guru protocol forbids disciples to hang around in any situation where the Sat Guru is being criticized, you dont belong here.

If you are here, you are either a disciple violating protocol or not a student (in which case why fret?).

Kindly remember Lifton had eight criteria for cultic behavior...

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Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 20, 2010 12:03AM

Its Ok for you to pour energy into replying on this website, so its just as fine for others to 'pour out energy', too.

Also tax exempt projects with gurus are indirectly subsidized by those citizens who do pay taxes, so even non members are entitled to speak up if they feel icky about a domineering person who gets tax exempt status and then runs a dictatorship on it has his or her lofty postion venerated.

Tax paying citizens might feel perturbed that they by paying taxes are indirectly subsidizing someone who isnt paying taxes and is being grovelled to and doesnt allow others to speak up or out and who will not answer consultations unless money is sent.


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Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: November 20, 2010 12:11AM

Guru Patrol:

Many of the so-called "gurus" have been exposed as frauds and con artists.

See []

"Karma Cola" is an interesting book written from an Indian perspective, about how so many Westerners fall prey to such scams.

"Sometime in the 1960s, the West adopted India as its newest spiritual resort. The next anyone knew, the Beatles were squatting at the feet of the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Expatriate hippies were turning on entire villages to the pleasures of group sex and I.V. drug use. And Indians who were accustomed to earning enlightenment the old-fashioned way were finding that the visitors wanted their Nirvana now -- and that plenty of native gurus were willing to deliver it.

No one has observed the West's invasion of India more astutely than Gita Mehta. In Karma Cola the acclaimed novelist trains an unblinking journalistic eye on jaded sadhus and beatific acid burnouts, the Bhagwan and Allen Ginsberg, guilt-tripping English girls and a guru who teaches gullible tourists how to view their previous incarnations. Brilliantly irreverent, hilarious, sobering, and wise, Mehta's book is the definitive epitaph for the era of spiritual tourism and all its casualties -- both Eastern and Western."

New York Times Book Review

See []

Other books those interested in "gurus" might want to read before becoming too involved:

Cartwheels in a Sari: A Memoir of Growing Up Cult Jayanti Tamm (Harmony April 14, 2009)

The Enlightenment Blues: My years with an American Guru Andre Van Der Braak (Monkfish Book Publishing October 2003)

Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power Joel Kramer (Frog, Ltd. May 20, 1993)

Feet of Clay: Saints, Sinners, and Madmen: A Study of Gurus Anthony Storr (Free Press; Reprint edition August 19, 1997)

My Life in Orange: Growing up with the Guru Tim Guest (Harvest Books February 1, 2005)

The 99th Monkey: A Spiritual Journalist's Misadventures with Gurus, Messiahs, Sex, Psychedelics, and Other Consciousness-Raising Experiments Eliezer Sobel (Santa Monica Press February 1, 2008)

The Serpent Rising: A Journey of Spiritual Seduction Mary Garden (Sid Harta Publishers October 2002)

Without the Guru: How I took my life back after thirty years Dr Michael Robert Finch (BookSurge Publishing October 6, 2009)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2010 12:13AM by rrmoderator.

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Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: November 20, 2010 12:17AM

To whom it may concern:

There have been many "cults" led by supposed "realized" gurus.

See []

The Ross Institute Internet Archives has a listing of some, with individual subsections that include articles, reports, research and court documents.

A number of such gurus have been called "cult leaders" over the years and reportedly hurt many people.

This is why anyone considering placing their trust with such a person should proceed carefully with caution and research the individual and their background thoroughly.

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Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by: Guru Patrol ()
Date: November 20, 2010 12:34AM

Dear Corboy: somehow I don't buy that you are here out of concern for tax emptions. And while I'm not a student, I am happy to step in for all teachers that I feel are authentic - because there are so many that sadly are not.
Dear moderator: you can provide all the resources you like to support your anti-guru/spiritual stance - I can sum it all up and save people money and time - there are many fakes and a few genune teachers. Chances are, neither this site nor any book will dissuade you from seeking out a teacher if you are so driven to do so - and similarly - no book or site or ignoramus like myself will persuade you to to look further into it and see for yourself. Each to their own. The funny thing is, it's generally not the teachers or students of these paths that are trying to persuade others and sell their beliefs - it's usually the cynics/skeptics that go on the offensive, often with great effort and passion - perhaps out of some false sense of duty to save the masses from brainwashing and suffering - or perhaps simply to comfort themselves in their unrelenting unwavering cynicism that brings nothing but angst and sadness and anger - and for what? For some empty intellectual gymnastics? Anyway, to each their own. It is as it is.

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