Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by:
Guru Patrol
()
Date: November 17, 2010 02:34AM
As I have said elsewhere, it is good sign that this teacher is not only openly public about her past, something very rare among teachers, but also explains that she had been testing the waters and moved on due to their problems. Everyone has a past, and if they learn from those experiences, and acknowledge the whole picture, this is quite encouraging. As far as whether this teacher is a fully realised Guru, this will always remain a murky subject, as it is widely acknowledged within the wisdom traditions that only a realised being can truly recognise another realised being. And there simply are not many realised beings hanging around. But.......one can get a pretty good sense of the teacher from the changes that take place within - when in the teacher's presence and by implementing the practices in a methodical and earnest way. Skeptics will say it is charisma, hypnosis, trickery, etc; All are welcome to their views.
Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by:
Guru Patrol
()
Date: November 17, 2010 03:48AM
Really. Nailed it you say. Let's take a closer look.
Actually, the burden of proof is on Guru SwamiG who has made numerous assertions regarding what she teaches with no evidence at all to back the validity of those assertions.
From the standpoint of a realised teacher, teachings are not assertions requiring evidence, they are experienced truths and the student is encouraged simply to see for themselves if it is valid or not. And the only way to do so, is to immerse oneself in the practices in an earnest and wholehearted way. The teacher is not interested in intellectual games. That is why I say the burden of proof is on the one being critical of this. How can you criticise something when you aren't willing to put it to the test? A scientist doesn't simply say water boils at x temperature - they boil the water and observe the data. In the same way, so-called skeptics throw around all kinds of comments and assertions, and rarely have any real experience in spirituality, meditation, teacher/student dynamic, etc; And I would go as far to say that ye who are so fervently critical of all things spiritual, are oftentimes ye who are most secretly hoping that it is real and can be discovered.
She is demanding that her followers swallow her assertions on faith, not evidence
Really? She says that? Actually a teacher will never demand anything. They speak from their experience/realisation and have zero concern whether someone is open to it and implements the practices, or rejects it. They have nothing to gain or lose. It is simply a sharing/offering of wisdom based on their own lived reality/experience. You are of course welcome to call this a load of crap, but at least be clear on how a Guru operates. The teacher insists the students discover for themselves the validity of the teachings. It can be no other way.
and promotes a system of bhakti yoga--devotion to the guru--that insists that the follower abdicate responsibility for doing his own thinking in order to allow the guru to dictate supposedly 'right thinking'
Actually this path appears to not be a bhakti yoga path per say. No bhajans or chants to the Guru - no elaborate rituals or ceremonies to the Guru - it appears to be at the core a fairly strict advaita type path - wth a kundalini component. But the teachings appear to be pure advaita - and as for kundalini - it appears to be an unfolding that should not be given any real heed - simply phenomena along the way. This is also encouraging. Many teachers mislead students by attaching undue importance to spiritual phenomena, experiences, the bells and whistles along the way. and students are enticed by this and get lost in it. As far as abdicating responsibility - it appears it is the opposite here. Also encouraging. She insists that the path not be an escape from worldly life. You should work, support yourself, have honest dealings, and all the rest. I think you are confusing boot camp with spiritual investigation. In boot camps, you are reprogrammed. In spiritual investigation, you are invited/encouraged to look within for that which is beyond the intellect and body, which transcends the ego/mind structure.
No critical thinking allowed=no possibility of independently verifying anything that the guru dictates as reality=cult.
It's not that critical thinking isn't allowed. Students willingly and knowingly enter into a relationship with a teacher for the express purpose of quieting the mind and having a glimpse behind the mind if you will. As I say above, the student verifies for themselves based on personal experience whether the teachings hold any water. In this way, the physical Guru/persona loses importance for the student, as they begin to see the non-dula nature of reality, and the illusiuon of another that has something I want. It has nothing to do with manipulation and force. That, I agree, would be a cult.
Every eastern guru worth his salt first teaches the follower to think critically and insists that the follower takes nothing at face value.
Guru SwamiG is selling 'eastern wisdom lite' in order to gather and hoodwink a group of followers to financially support her.
First of all, Gurus can be found in all parts of the world today. And they are women and men of all walks of life. Second, I can see yet again that you have no idea what it is a Guru actually does. It isn't at all about critical thinking. If your interest is mental gymnastics, go take a logic course. Far too many people here and elsewhere on the net, have a total misunderstanding of the role of Guru and spiritual inquiry. I have discussed this above so I will not go into it again here.
Guru SwamiG is selling 'eastern wisdom lite' in order to gather and hoodwink a group of followers to financially support her.
Actually, her teachings are quite refreshingly strict and consistent. There are so many new-age flakes out there today. Her teachings are pure advaita at the core. I would go so far as to say her teachings are "eastern wisdom heavy". The unfortunate trend over the decades since eastern spirituality has come to the West, has been to water down and repackage the teachings in all manner of ways. This doesn't appear to be the case here. As for the money side of the equation, I think this is another area where many are misinformed. Even in ancient India, there were ashrams and donors and even political support. The great Ramana Maharshi, who many love to use as an example of the ideal saint, was fully supported by his followers. An ashram was built around him, all with money from followers. It is silly to say that money = inauthentic. Rubbish. It is everyday people making donations out of the kindness of their hearts, to support their teacher and the running of their path. In fact, many Gurus have various charitable projects in place to attract followers and put them at ease, while much of the money doesn't even go to these charities. There is simply no formula for authenticity. It comforts seekers to believe that there is. Because it requires that they be vulnerable and who wants to be hurt badly? So seekers look for guarantees and indicators that they will be safe if they enter into a path and become vulnerable. There are no guarantees - there are authentic and fraudulent teachers - and it is quite simply seekers proceed at your own risk. With a real Guru, the only thing they risk is the death of ego. With a false Guru, the outcome can be disastrous.
A good guru is a guide on a hitherto unmapped path, never a leader. The unmapped path is unique and different for each individual so all that baloney about millenia-old teachings and bowing to scriptural authority does not apply--it is just baloney.
Here I will agree with you. But the Guru or Guide is essential to navigate the path. And as for the teachings, they are at heart basic truths, and as truths, don't change over time. So feel free to read the traditons teachings or not, as you say, each is unique and a tru Guru knows what they need to move forward on the path. And here, no text or scripture can be a substitute for the living Grace of a realised Guru. Books simply cannot get you there.
One last comment. If you are of the opinion that there is no soul or way to realise Truth, then there isn't much room for discussion is there. All paths, no matter what they are like, would be ridiculous cults in this case. And if that's so, then it is pointless to try and highlight indicators that might suggest x path is a cult or not, because you have already decided that they all must be delusional. We can save a lot of discussion on this site and others similar to this site, if you would just get clear on this fundamental point. If on the other hand, you are open to the possibility of spirit/soul/consciouness, then there is some wiggle room for discussion. There can be authentic paths and faudulent paths, and there can be all kinds of criteria and analysis you can implement to try and uncover which is which. My position is that there are realised Gurus and fake Gurus. That by way of various methods in tandem with Grace, reality can be known. That there are some really obvious red flags to look out for when looking into spiritual paths. And that this teacher and path is one of the genuine ones. I might be wrong, of course, but I really don't think so.
Actually, the burden of proof is on Guru SwamiG who has made numerous assertions regarding what she teaches with no evidence at all to back the validity of those assertions.
From the standpoint of a realised teacher, teachings are not assertions requiring evidence, they are experienced truths and the student is encouraged simply to see for themselves if it is valid or not. And the only way to do so, is to immerse oneself in the practices in an earnest and wholehearted way. The teacher is not interested in intellectual games. That is why I say the burden of proof is on the one being critical of this. How can you criticise something when you aren't willing to put it to the test? A scientist doesn't simply say water boils at x temperature - they boil the water and observe the data. In the same way, so-called skeptics throw around all kinds of comments and assertions, and rarely have any real experience in spirituality, meditation, teacher/student dynamic, etc; And I would go as far to say that ye who are so fervently critical of all things spiritual, are oftentimes ye who are most secretly hoping that it is real and can be discovered.
She is demanding that her followers swallow her assertions on faith, not evidence
Really? She says that? Actually a teacher will never demand anything. They speak from their experience/realisation and have zero concern whether someone is open to it and implements the practices, or rejects it. They have nothing to gain or lose. It is simply a sharing/offering of wisdom based on their own lived reality/experience. You are of course welcome to call this a load of crap, but at least be clear on how a Guru operates. The teacher insists the students discover for themselves the validity of the teachings. It can be no other way.
and promotes a system of bhakti yoga--devotion to the guru--that insists that the follower abdicate responsibility for doing his own thinking in order to allow the guru to dictate supposedly 'right thinking'
Actually this path appears to not be a bhakti yoga path per say. No bhajans or chants to the Guru - no elaborate rituals or ceremonies to the Guru - it appears to be at the core a fairly strict advaita type path - wth a kundalini component. But the teachings appear to be pure advaita - and as for kundalini - it appears to be an unfolding that should not be given any real heed - simply phenomena along the way. This is also encouraging. Many teachers mislead students by attaching undue importance to spiritual phenomena, experiences, the bells and whistles along the way. and students are enticed by this and get lost in it. As far as abdicating responsibility - it appears it is the opposite here. Also encouraging. She insists that the path not be an escape from worldly life. You should work, support yourself, have honest dealings, and all the rest. I think you are confusing boot camp with spiritual investigation. In boot camps, you are reprogrammed. In spiritual investigation, you are invited/encouraged to look within for that which is beyond the intellect and body, which transcends the ego/mind structure.
No critical thinking allowed=no possibility of independently verifying anything that the guru dictates as reality=cult.
It's not that critical thinking isn't allowed. Students willingly and knowingly enter into a relationship with a teacher for the express purpose of quieting the mind and having a glimpse behind the mind if you will. As I say above, the student verifies for themselves based on personal experience whether the teachings hold any water. In this way, the physical Guru/persona loses importance for the student, as they begin to see the non-dula nature of reality, and the illusiuon of another that has something I want. It has nothing to do with manipulation and force. That, I agree, would be a cult.
Every eastern guru worth his salt first teaches the follower to think critically and insists that the follower takes nothing at face value.
Guru SwamiG is selling 'eastern wisdom lite' in order to gather and hoodwink a group of followers to financially support her.
First of all, Gurus can be found in all parts of the world today. And they are women and men of all walks of life. Second, I can see yet again that you have no idea what it is a Guru actually does. It isn't at all about critical thinking. If your interest is mental gymnastics, go take a logic course. Far too many people here and elsewhere on the net, have a total misunderstanding of the role of Guru and spiritual inquiry. I have discussed this above so I will not go into it again here.
Guru SwamiG is selling 'eastern wisdom lite' in order to gather and hoodwink a group of followers to financially support her.
Actually, her teachings are quite refreshingly strict and consistent. There are so many new-age flakes out there today. Her teachings are pure advaita at the core. I would go so far as to say her teachings are "eastern wisdom heavy". The unfortunate trend over the decades since eastern spirituality has come to the West, has been to water down and repackage the teachings in all manner of ways. This doesn't appear to be the case here. As for the money side of the equation, I think this is another area where many are misinformed. Even in ancient India, there were ashrams and donors and even political support. The great Ramana Maharshi, who many love to use as an example of the ideal saint, was fully supported by his followers. An ashram was built around him, all with money from followers. It is silly to say that money = inauthentic. Rubbish. It is everyday people making donations out of the kindness of their hearts, to support their teacher and the running of their path. In fact, many Gurus have various charitable projects in place to attract followers and put them at ease, while much of the money doesn't even go to these charities. There is simply no formula for authenticity. It comforts seekers to believe that there is. Because it requires that they be vulnerable and who wants to be hurt badly? So seekers look for guarantees and indicators that they will be safe if they enter into a path and become vulnerable. There are no guarantees - there are authentic and fraudulent teachers - and it is quite simply seekers proceed at your own risk. With a real Guru, the only thing they risk is the death of ego. With a false Guru, the outcome can be disastrous.
A good guru is a guide on a hitherto unmapped path, never a leader. The unmapped path is unique and different for each individual so all that baloney about millenia-old teachings and bowing to scriptural authority does not apply--it is just baloney.
Here I will agree with you. But the Guru or Guide is essential to navigate the path. And as for the teachings, they are at heart basic truths, and as truths, don't change over time. So feel free to read the traditons teachings or not, as you say, each is unique and a tru Guru knows what they need to move forward on the path. And here, no text or scripture can be a substitute for the living Grace of a realised Guru. Books simply cannot get you there.
One last comment. If you are of the opinion that there is no soul or way to realise Truth, then there isn't much room for discussion is there. All paths, no matter what they are like, would be ridiculous cults in this case. And if that's so, then it is pointless to try and highlight indicators that might suggest x path is a cult or not, because you have already decided that they all must be delusional. We can save a lot of discussion on this site and others similar to this site, if you would just get clear on this fundamental point. If on the other hand, you are open to the possibility of spirit/soul/consciouness, then there is some wiggle room for discussion. There can be authentic paths and faudulent paths, and there can be all kinds of criteria and analysis you can implement to try and uncover which is which. My position is that there are realised Gurus and fake Gurus. That by way of various methods in tandem with Grace, reality can be known. That there are some really obvious red flags to look out for when looking into spiritual paths. And that this teacher and path is one of the genuine ones. I might be wrong, of course, but I really don't think so.
Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: November 17, 2010 06:18AM
Guru Patrol,
I am not going through your apology line by line as it is clearly nonsensical.
You start with an indefinite term, 'realised teacher' and then extrapolate from there, building a frothy edifice of even more undefined terms.
In order to communicate in any meaningful way, we at least have to agree on the approximate definition of the terms in use.
What is your definition of 'realised teacher'?
Mine, BTW, which I have gleaned from your writing, is an educator who has realised that she can charge for her courses, i.e. demand payment for them and yet have her acolytes insist that she then demands nothing of them.
This is a very manipulative and dishonest teacher in my book, one who has thoroughly confused the minds of her students, leading them away from logical thinking in order to lead them by the nose.
Here's a starter:
'Teacher--One who teaches, especially one hired to teach.'
[www.thefreedictionary.com]
and for some eastern wisdom:
'The teacher who is indeed wise does not bid you to enter the house of his wisdom but rather leads you to the threshold of your mind.' Kahlil Gibran (my emphasis)
Close reading of those ancient texts for yourself, (amazon is your friend) might do you a better service in the long run than swallowing Guru SwamiG's imaginative renderings.
So, enlighten me, what is a 'realised teacher'--what has this indefinite being realised apart from "what an easy gig being a guru is in the gullible west"?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2010 06:21AM by Stoic.
I am not going through your apology line by line as it is clearly nonsensical.
You start with an indefinite term, 'realised teacher' and then extrapolate from there, building a frothy edifice of even more undefined terms.
In order to communicate in any meaningful way, we at least have to agree on the approximate definition of the terms in use.
What is your definition of 'realised teacher'?
Mine, BTW, which I have gleaned from your writing, is an educator who has realised that she can charge for her courses, i.e. demand payment for them and yet have her acolytes insist that she then demands nothing of them.
This is a very manipulative and dishonest teacher in my book, one who has thoroughly confused the minds of her students, leading them away from logical thinking in order to lead them by the nose.
Here's a starter:
'Teacher--One who teaches, especially one hired to teach.'
[www.thefreedictionary.com]
and for some eastern wisdom:
'The teacher who is indeed wise does not bid you to enter the house of his wisdom but rather leads you to the threshold of your mind.' Kahlil Gibran (my emphasis)
Close reading of those ancient texts for yourself, (amazon is your friend) might do you a better service in the long run than swallowing Guru SwamiG's imaginative renderings.
So, enlighten me, what is a 'realised teacher'--what has this indefinite being realised apart from "what an easy gig being a guru is in the gullible west"?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2010 06:21AM by Stoic.
Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: November 17, 2010 07:40AM
As a starter, I found these:
[dictionary.sensagent.com]
Definition:
realise (v.)
1.perceive (an idea or situation) mentally"Now I see!" "I just can't see your point" "Does she realize how important this decision is?" "I don't understand the idea"
2.be fully aware or cognizant of
3.make real or concrete; give reality or substance to"our ideas must be substantiated into actions"
4.expand or complete (a part in a piece of baroque music) by supplying the harmonies indicated in the figured bass
5.convert into cash; of goods and property
6.earn on some commercial or business transaction; earn as salary or wages"How much do you make a month in your new job?" "She earns a lot in her new job" "this merger brought in lots of money" "He clears $5,000 each month"
synonyms:
realise (v.)
acknowledge, actualise, actualize, agnise, agnize, appreciate, bring, bring about, bring in, clear, comprehend, earn, effectuate, gain, get right, make, make come true, materialise, materialize, procure, produce, pull in, realize, recognise, recognize, see, substantiate, take in, understand
realise (v.) (British)
actualize, admit, appreciate, bring about, effect, effectuate, materialize, realize, recognize, actualise (British), make come true (literary), materialise (British), procure (literary), recognise (British)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2010 07:43AM by Stoic.
[dictionary.sensagent.com]
Definition:
realise (v.)
1.perceive (an idea or situation) mentally"Now I see!" "I just can't see your point" "Does she realize how important this decision is?" "I don't understand the idea"
2.be fully aware or cognizant of
3.make real or concrete; give reality or substance to"our ideas must be substantiated into actions"
4.expand or complete (a part in a piece of baroque music) by supplying the harmonies indicated in the figured bass
5.convert into cash; of goods and property
6.earn on some commercial or business transaction; earn as salary or wages"How much do you make a month in your new job?" "She earns a lot in her new job" "this merger brought in lots of money" "He clears $5,000 each month"
synonyms:
realise (v.)
acknowledge, actualise, actualize, agnise, agnize, appreciate, bring, bring about, bring in, clear, comprehend, earn, effectuate, gain, get right, make, make come true, materialise, materialize, procure, produce, pull in, realize, recognise, recognize, see, substantiate, take in, understand
realise (v.) (British)
actualize, admit, appreciate, bring about, effect, effectuate, materialize, realize, recognize, actualise (British), make come true (literary), materialise (British), procure (literary), recognise (British)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2010 07:43AM by Stoic.
Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by:
indiaspark
()
Date: November 17, 2010 05:58PM
Guru Patrol You and your guru are really out of depth in a forum like this.
Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by:
Guru Patrol
()
Date: November 17, 2010 08:27PM
a) not my Guru
b) are you for real?
b) are you for real?
Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by:
indiaspark
()
Date: November 19, 2010 05:42PM
Quote
Guru Patrol
a) not my Guru
b) are you for real?
Are you sure she is not your guru?
Its obvious from your posts that you are an interested party and an apologist for her !
Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by:
Guru Patrol
()
Date: November 19, 2010 09:20PM
Yes quite sure.
I am interested in the subject. I am not an apologist for this Guru.
Simply put, I have seen and been involved with many ashrams, teachers, over the years in India, Nepal, US, etc;
I have extensive experience both academically and practically.
Let me tell you this, this teacher appears to be fine.
You want to talk cults - show me money scandals, sex scandals, outlandish fees for "seminars", super secrecy of both students and teacher (s), ex students crying bloody murder (not necessarily an indicator actually - falling out with a teacher can be very painful for people and they often lash out in the most vicious ways), even criminal record, inconsistent teachings and/or odd sections of teachings mixed in, people leaving loved ones and lives and work to live in a commune or ashram - there's a whole other post on ashram life and the pitfalls of all that, teacher changing personas often, moving around often, hiding out and unavailable often - the list goes on and on.
If you are genuinely trying to establish criteria for determining which may be cults and which not, then I would say this teacher is not at all a cult.
But if you are on a witchhunt to label all such endeavor as crazy delusional rubbish, then what is the point of this site, and what is your real objective here?
If the moderator were genuinely interested in exploring religious and spiritual paths, I would say you were at the far end of the spectrum here. Basically out and out rejection of the whole package. But.....I don't think the moderator is interested in doing that - I think he/she is more or less on the same page,
Which is really unfortunate - because it is a forum that could accomplish so much more than simply bashing bashing bashing.
I am interested in the subject. I am not an apologist for this Guru.
Simply put, I have seen and been involved with many ashrams, teachers, over the years in India, Nepal, US, etc;
I have extensive experience both academically and practically.
Let me tell you this, this teacher appears to be fine.
You want to talk cults - show me money scandals, sex scandals, outlandish fees for "seminars", super secrecy of both students and teacher (s), ex students crying bloody murder (not necessarily an indicator actually - falling out with a teacher can be very painful for people and they often lash out in the most vicious ways), even criminal record, inconsistent teachings and/or odd sections of teachings mixed in, people leaving loved ones and lives and work to live in a commune or ashram - there's a whole other post on ashram life and the pitfalls of all that, teacher changing personas often, moving around often, hiding out and unavailable often - the list goes on and on.
If you are genuinely trying to establish criteria for determining which may be cults and which not, then I would say this teacher is not at all a cult.
But if you are on a witchhunt to label all such endeavor as crazy delusional rubbish, then what is the point of this site, and what is your real objective here?
If the moderator were genuinely interested in exploring religious and spiritual paths, I would say you were at the far end of the spectrum here. Basically out and out rejection of the whole package. But.....I don't think the moderator is interested in doing that - I think he/she is more or less on the same page,
Which is really unfortunate - because it is a forum that could accomplish so much more than simply bashing bashing bashing.
Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: November 19, 2010 10:44PM
Here are some items from Guru G's website. Respect seems to be an issue.
There is a subsection
[www.ashram-annex.com]
on Guru Swami G's website entitled:
Why would a Sadhaka be sent away? and it states
'Written by Guru Swami G '
Here is the text:
But, there is an article entitled
[www.ashram-annex.com]
How To Leave This Path With Guru's Grace and Blessing
Written by Guru Swami G
It all boils down to your having to ask permission. As if you are an inmate or a child.
Finally, there is the matter of money. Here you have been giving money to this person, and you have to ask her permission to leave if you want her blessing?
She should be grateful that you've been giving her money!
[www.ashram-annex.com]
There is a subsection
[www.ashram-annex.com]
on Guru Swami G's website entitled:
Why would a Sadhaka be sent away? and it states
'Written by Guru Swami G '
Here is the text:
Quote
Seekers have no idea why Guru's do what they do ---- Seekers see through flawed eyes and only from the small picture..
Why would a Sadhaka (Student) be sent away ?
For one, when insolence and disrespect for the Guru raises it's head the Sadhaka only is digging a hole for himself ...
Each infraction and marked display of disrespect only works to dissolve the Grace which Guru has imparted.... When the Sadhaka has used up all the Grace from Transmissions then no matter how much greener the grass may seem elsewhere Nothing that Sadhaka does will afford him any progress....
How can you Disrespect the Direct Truth and then have any illusions that the Universe is going to continue to Bless you.... You are rather constructing a difficult karmic path which you won't want to walk....
THEREFORE this Guru in Grace and Compassion will cut you off from the Ashram BEFORE you fully Bankrupt the Grace that has been imparted.... Before you have dug a hole that will require Lifetimes of hardship before being given another opportunity for forward motion....
This is the Grace and Compassion of Guru ----
Why would a depressed person be sent away ? Why isn't he being surrounded and loved into being healed ?
When Instructions to do the Balanced Breath (which has still not come into full alignment) and to do the Gratitude Journal (the best practice to open the Heart and begin to pull one out of the depressed attitude) are not done . . .
This instruction is to go and be willing to Live Life for a time.... When in more balance then one may re-apply....
This is GRACE --- AS NOW one has to Rely on those practices rather than having attention that is only ingraining depressing attitudes...
So again it is GRACE and Compassion to give what is Needed versus what is wanted.... The ongoing posts that only focus on negative drama does nothing to pull one free but only serves to entrench that mentality ....
Compassion gives the Gratitude Journal and Balanced Breath and a prescription to go out and Live and breathe in Life rather than wallowing in one's stagnation .... This is the best Grace and Compassion for the Situation ... When there isn't a forum to aire the littany of dark projections of stagnation (which only serves to keep them going in the endless hamster wheel) then all one has left to rely on are the very practices which may turn the situation around... One must rely on and breathe in the practices for them to work --- it's not about getting warm fuzzy's to keep the emotional ego momentarily feeling better ...
So while you sit and want to make judgments as to why the Guru seems harsh ------ you Unfortunately are not looking or seeing with Clarity the larger picture.... You are rather focusing on the emotions of the moment....
Guru is not a persona with personal interests... A Guru acts and reacts with Energies .... Guru's have one function to bring Light into darkness... To be a Catalyst for one's journey.... To break down and through the walls of ignorance...
The Guru gives Seva through Tapashya --- Rather than living Fully in Bliss this is put aside to give the Love needed to break through the ill-usions.. .
Rather than giving Sermons and lovely speeches that one may either attempt to adopt or lay aside and which will pump up the ego convincing it that it is a divine co-creator and pulls the sadhaka only as far as oneness ---- This Guru wants to see the Sadhaka's enter into the full Freedom of Realization. ... Trust this it is much easier to give lovely speeches and stirring affirmations that keep egos feeling cozy and loved but it is Tough Love that is willing to bear the judgements and mistaken notions by sadhaka's in order to move them beyond oneness and lower samadhi bliss....
So judge if you will ---- but be careful you don't dig a hole you cannot get out of for lifetimes... . Keep your tongue and either go forward in glad humility or leave quietly and seek what it is you think you need that you aren't finding here....
Do not judge less you be judged....
-----What does it mean that Guru can save you from God but none can save you from the Guru ????
It means that Guru gives the light and Grace which may turn your life around and mitigate much karma that you would have had to pay.... Guru brings a Transmission of GRACE...
When the Guru washes their hands of you then none may help you....
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But, there is an article entitled
[www.ashram-annex.com]
How To Leave This Path With Guru's Grace and Blessing
Written by Guru Swami G
It all boils down to your having to ask permission. As if you are an inmate or a child.
Quote
How to Seek Dispensation to Leave the Dharma Center
Come to Sat Guru and we can discuss what is going on.... If you can't come then Call...
One leaves by : 1. Giving the intention that one wants to leave and asking for a months hiatus At the end of that month 2. One comes back and either affirms they wish to still leave or asks to remain at the Ashram.. If one still chooses to go you are released on your way with Guru's Full Blessings... When one abruptly leaves there are NO Guru's Blessings afforded for your journey and there are Karmic Consequences to the action..
One doesn't come into the Ashram saying I'm joining the path until I see fit to leave.... One joins this path with the Full Intention and commitment to walk the Whole of the Way to Realization... When this is thrown away then one has Broken their Word to Truth and have chosen Ego over the path.... This is why there are karmic consequences to this type of action...
When leaving you can ask for a 1-3 month Hiatus. During that time you are not Authorized to do anything other than the Starting Practices...
IF at the end of your hiatus you decide to leave then you ASK for the Guru's Blessings --- You are then stripped of your spiritual name ... The Diksha Practices are never uttered again..
And you are free to go your way with Guru's Blessings... IF you find out that things are not as rosy on your own as you thought then you ASK SINCERELY to be allowed to continue on with the Path.... When you come onto a path you aren't purchasing practices for ego to use as it sees fit... You are walking into a Path where there is dedication on Both Sides Guru & Sadhaka.. There is a Bond formed and the Guru takes you under their care in order to move you forward to Realization...
This Path needs to be walked in a Sacred - Honest - Truthful and Transparent manner... From Start to finish..
Finally, there is the matter of money. Here you have been giving money to this person, and you have to ask her permission to leave if you want her blessing?
She should be grateful that you've been giving her money!
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Consultations
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Guru Swami G is available for questions and consultation. The donation schedule is:
• Asking a question: $20 per question
• Consultation: $50 per 1/2 hour, $100 per hour.
If you have 'special circumstances' and cannot afford these amounts then send an email and explain what would be possible. If you decide you want to go forward with a question OR a consultation please use the donation button and send in your question to info@guruswamig.com. For consultations, please send your information, with a phone number or a Skype ID, along with a time frame (based on Eastern time), for Guru-G to get back to you.
DO NOT SEND THE QUESTION AND THINK THAT GURU-G WILL SIMPLY ANSWER IT WITHOUT SOME TYPE OF COMPENSATION FOR TIME AND EXPERTISE. YOUR MAIL WILL BE DELETED AND NO ANSWER WILL BE GIVEN. It is almost unheard of to be able to even have ANY access to a Sat Guru directly.
OM Shanti Thank you - 
Finally, an essay from this same site on Crazy Wisdom
[www.ashram-annex.com]
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Crazy Wisdom by Swami Guru G
Now a bit about this Guru and path, as most are not familiar with what Crazy Wisdom is about (no it's not about sex nor abuse).
As a Guru and a teacher i am harder than most and don't give the ego candies that people want to hear constantly. Why is this? Because as Wonderful and warm-hearted as it sounds, if it continues to keep you bound to the wheel of "it has to feel good to be valid" then you haven't as yet found out that the path can be difficult. People more often than not seek out a feel-good Guru, one that gives only what you are willing to hear. I will be forthright and honest in assessment - if there is clinging to something that is unproductive, yes, this will be challenged.
Love is that which seeks your Total Liberation, not the momentary feel-good enabling. I wish to see you in total Unchanging Freedom. This CAN be found in this lifetime - but it takes being willing to go beyond your externalized masks to That which is before any projected image. To the Light beyond lights.
YOU MAY ASK SOME OF MY SADHAKAS HOW DIFFICULT IT IS TO BE CHALLENGED, BUT WHAT HAS THEN BEEN GAINED IN THE LONG RUN.
If you have come to the site only for information, as you have a Guru already, the question I ask you is: Why do you not go to your Guru for the information you are seeking here? If they do not have the Wisdom you seek then perhaps they are not qualified to aide you any further and it may be time to connect with a Guru that Does Know the way through this part of the journey. You respect the Guru you are with Now - and the ones that have Served you in theavideo1a past for furthering your journey to home.
Most do not understand the wisdom and guidance and way of Kali - Kali cuts to the quick and gets to the heart of the matter most rapidly. She is either seen as the All-Loving Mother that cares for her children 100% through tough love OR she is blamed when one does not understand that clearing the way, or in-your-face immediate karma, is her way of showing that something is not working and needs be changed. One may either surrender within the Universal Flow and Harmony or may remain kicking against the goads when ego wants to rule it's way. My energy as a Guru is that of Kali - it is all based upon Love - the Love that aides one in clearing the way of all the dross, but this clearing may seem like entering into the fires when the crud of repressed garbage begins to emerge to be released. I assure you though that no matter what difficulty comes one CAN go beyond it and once in Realization the drama is at an end, never to return as a driving force.
Here are a couple of Poems that illustrate this dynamic - they were written for one of my Guru's - the one that was Most instrumental in moving my journey to completion.
Poem #1
Answer me this:
What is sharper than a two edged sword?
What is mightier that the pen?
If you had a true Guru you would know.
Only their love and compassion make it so.
Have you yet guessed?
Or do you not know?
The sword cuts swift and deep.
And the pen is mightier than the sword.
But the strongest of them all is the tongue of the guru.....
WAS IT EASY? NO - BUT NOW IT IS KNOWN THAT WHAT WAS PRESENTED WAS GIVEN FROM THE HIGHEST LOVE. ONLY THE GURU THAT LOVES YOU WILL CHALLENGE YOU - THE REST WILL GIVE YOU WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR AND WILL COLLECT THE MONEY FOR THE SHOW.
Poem #2
Within your mind
is emptiness
the stillness reigns supreme
and from your eyes
the love shows
forth and compassion there is seen
Your mouth if full of truth
and wisdom there abounds
and if we looked
within your heart
the Self of God is found
You walk in Bliss
and share with us
your radiance of form
Your gift to us can never be repaid
for with knowledge,
Peace, and Bliss
we are reborn......
Poem #3
I humbly bow
and kiss the Lotus feet
of my Guru
For he has taken me
from darkness to light.
He has shattered
the world, and has
given me eternity.
He has cast sin
body and mind
into the darkness;
and only sinless
Truth eternal remains...
i search my rememberances
for your face and form
and Guru-ji they allude me.
Like mists on the Ganga
you have come and gone.
And yet you have so permeated my being
that i feel you ever near.
Strange it is that the
face of my beloved has vanished
and i remember it not.
But your love and compassion enfold me
and i feel myself resting in the arms of my beloved.
My hear rests close to your heart
and i am content in Peace and Bliss.......
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WHEN CHALLENGED ONE FEELS INDIGNANT - ANGRY - THE RUSH OF WHO DOES SHE/HE THINK THEY ARE TO SPEAK TO ME THIS WAY. THEN ONE SETTLES AND GOES WITHIN AND SURRENDERS.
THE KNIFE OF AWARENESS BEGINS TO CHOP AWAY AT THE DROSS AND WHAT IS LEFT IS PURE GOLD. ONLY LATER DOWN THE WAY IS IT UNDERSTOOD THAT WHAT IS GIVEN IS GIVEN FROM THE DEEPEST COMPASSION AND TRUE LOVE - THE LOVE THAT SEEKS YOUR FREEDOM RATHER THAN YOUR WELL WISHES AND ENAMORED JOY HOLDING TO A CHARISMATIC PERSONA.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maha Shanti OM
Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: November 19, 2010 11:23PM
"Prohibitions include never contradicting or arguing with the guru, never criticizing him or her, nor listening to criticism by others" -- quoted from Swami Guru G's website.
Note to readers. This message board is not a Guru G ashram. It is a public space protected by the US First Amendment.
So if anyone feels their Guru G practice is made difficult by what is written here, the simple solution according to the section of Guru Swami G protocol quoted above is-- not read this message board at all
Guru Protocol
[www.ashram-annex.com]
It should also be noted that the entire Swami Guru G website has a confusing combination of Hindu and Mahayana Buddhist terminology in addition to a scolding tone which would put most readers off.
Swami is a title one has in the Hindu world. In the Mahayana/Vajrayana lineage a person would carry the title of Lama or Rinpoche.
(and it is not satisfactory to cut in and say that all paths are ultimately the same. There is a radical difference between Hindism there are various definitions of Absolute or First Principles. According to Wendy Doninger and other scholars, the Brahmanas had to clarify Hindu doctrine precisely because Buddhadharma and Jainism presented challenging alternatives. Unlike Hinduism which in most cases posits some kind of inherantly separetly existing essence, Being, Atman or Absolute, Buddhadharma has the perspective that there is no inherantly-separately-existing-Atman, or God or Absolute.
A Buddhist would call it a practice center or Dharma center, not an ashram.
Kundalini yoga as referred to on Guru Swami Gs website is mentioned as mostly a Hindu concern--it doesnt come up directly in most Buddhist sites.
Lineage
[www.ashram-annex.com]
Note to readers. This message board is not a Guru G ashram. It is a public space protected by the US First Amendment.
So if anyone feels their Guru G practice is made difficult by what is written here, the simple solution according to the section of Guru Swami G protocol quoted above is-- not read this message board at all
Guru Protocol
[www.ashram-annex.com]
Quote
What Is the Nature of Guru Protocol?
Guru protocol, as outlined in the Kularnava Tantra and Guru Gita, defines Guru protocol and can be understood in three parts: devotional acts, codes of harmony and prohibitions:
Devotional acts include serving the guru, prostrating daily and offering a gift in love, chanting his or her name and meditating on his or her inner form as the embodiment of the Divine, partaking of ucchishta-waters from his or her holy sandals, and his or her food leavings-emulating his or her awakened qualities, seeking initiation and striving for Self Realization as he directs.
Codes of harmony include seeking his or her blessings, obeying his or her directions, keeping no secrets and honoring his or her lofty presence.
Prohibitions include never contradicting or arguing with the guru, never criticizing him or her, nor listening to criticism by others, not imitating his or her dress or deportment, not standing or sitting above him or her, nor walking or driving ahead of him or her; not assuming authority in his or her presence, nor uttering words of falsehood or contempt, and not initiating conversation or asking questions unless invited.
The Kularnava Tantra explains, "Be always in service of the guru, ever in his or her presence, giving up desire and anger, humble and devoted, lauding in spirit, upright in doing his or her work." Aum Namah Sivaya.
It should also be noted that the entire Swami Guru G website has a confusing combination of Hindu and Mahayana Buddhist terminology in addition to a scolding tone which would put most readers off.
Swami is a title one has in the Hindu world. In the Mahayana/Vajrayana lineage a person would carry the title of Lama or Rinpoche.
(and it is not satisfactory to cut in and say that all paths are ultimately the same. There is a radical difference between Hindism there are various definitions of Absolute or First Principles. According to Wendy Doninger and other scholars, the Brahmanas had to clarify Hindu doctrine precisely because Buddhadharma and Jainism presented challenging alternatives. Unlike Hinduism which in most cases posits some kind of inherantly separetly existing essence, Being, Atman or Absolute, Buddhadharma has the perspective that there is no inherantly-separately-existing-Atman, or God or Absolute.
A Buddhist would call it a practice center or Dharma center, not an ashram.
Kundalini yoga as referred to on Guru Swami Gs website is mentioned as mostly a Hindu concern--it doesnt come up directly in most Buddhist sites.
Lineage
[www.ashram-annex.com]
Quote
Guru Swami G Answers Questions about Lineage
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[From an email exchange on January 6, 2008 11:14 AM]
Subject: Question To Guruji from Don about Lineage
* Namaste!
- Namaste and Great Day -
* Where might I read most specifically about Guru Swami-G's lineage?
- My path has been neclectic - my Guru's none that would be recognized.
Lineage: Esoteric Christian - Tantric - Shavite (one of the 10 dasnami traditions, this is one of the oldest traditions in India). What is it you are specifically looking for?
* I am trying to get a clearer picture of the function of "lineage," as you spoke of in your videos. Particularly that a Sat Guru is "commissioned" to be able to help others from a "lineage." And, without being "commissioned by a lineage" the Guru would not be able to help others.
- OK - there is a bit of confusion then. I have said to those who start with the litany of "you are self appointed" that No, i had a Guru that indeed pronounced the state of Realization here. His background was he was taught by 3 Tantric Masters and he himself was also a Tantric, although for him Realization came through Poonjaji, as he was Ripe through his former practices so there was but a thread to be cut. His father was a Realized Being as well.
(Corboy Poojaji may be HWL Poonja aka Papaji who among others, told Andrew Cohen Cohen was enlightened and after just 3 weeks told Cohen to go out and teach. Cohen's track record has been cruel)
This means simply that when my Guru saw that, indeed, all had fallen away into Realization he commissioned me to be a Guru by directly saying "it is now time for you to be a Guru". This was not an idea that i had - it was his admonition. He didn't appear in a dream nor was it that i simply decided "gee, being a guru would be nice". OThere is a danger when one doesn't have a Sat Guru that when the first taste of Bliss or oneness arises that they will *think* they have attained and then they self-appoint themselves as gurus. And yet they are still themselves in the midst of the journey. Then you have the blind leading the blind. Now maybe they are very charismatic and have a lot of shakti but this is no indicator of having the wisdom to be a Guru. People confuse this. Guruji always said that the only true Tantric is the Realized 0-ne. ahahahahahahahaah
* I was wanting to know how you see your lineage and what lineage you were commissioned by to do the important work you do.
- The Lineage of having walked the path from start to completion. The Lineage of Realized Masters - as far as the externals of lineages, they are only indicators of perhaps what type of leanings that the practices will take. Some lineages have become so bogged down in dogmas that they have lost the lifeblood. When speaking of lineage it simply means that there was guidance along the way - although for most of my life it was the Inner Mystics Path - traversing the dark night of the soul and much inner soul searching etc. That came under the heading of the Esoteric Christian Order- Walking the path of Christ.
* As I and others have shared, I have so needed one-to-one instruction and guidance by someone who has traveled this path.
- Indeed, only one that has actually walked it from start to finish can understand and write the map of it. It can't be given by one with theory and no practical knowledge. No lineage by itself is going to help. One HAS to have a Master in place that has Mastered their own journey rather than a set of dogmatic rules and practices. Am not speaking of dead lineages of pomp and circumstance. Am speaking of the Lineage of Realized Masters no matter what the tradition they passed through.
* When you mentioned the "tantra" tradition as one that does this,I felt something deep inside of me click into place. You so clearly do that, so I was wondering if your lineage was that of "tantra" or included that.
- Tantra is the art of using All of life as practice. This is a tantric type of path - yes. But tantra has gotten such a bad name in being touted as finding liberation through sex. Or in india, as being somehow mixed up with doing black magic. Neither of these is correct. And so have not used the name tantra too often as it brings more confusion than not sometimes.
* I am sorting out, in a most productive way, so much confusion the past two weeks with my brief connection to you and your teaching, and this is just one of the many things that have confused me when reading and studying with other teachers who claim a lineage.
- Ok - well there is lineage as far as a tradition and school is concerned. And this can become a dead thing - when you have those who are caught up within dogmas - practices by rote etc. that simply keep one in a spin of creating and exchanging one conditioning for another. So am not speaking of this type of being commissioned. hahahahahahah Nor this type of lineage.
* When you study with a Guru do you, as a student, therefore, become a part of or belong to the Guru's lineage?
- One becomes their Guru - yes. Their background becomes in a sense your background. Would say a lineage is a way of seeing - as lineage comes out of a Sat Guru's or Masters pointings. Unfortunately when there is not a Sat Guru or Master in place that remains Fluid then the tradition may become cold rather than Enlivened.
* Can you have more than one lineage (seems to me most people, especially in the West are eclectic but none I have met ever attained Realization)?
- In the case here i had a number of initiations and have belonged to a number of traditions BUT each was walked on it's own merits only for a time. In other words i wasn't mixing them all at once. I didn't have numerous teachers trying to juggle them at one time. It was a succession of Teachers - paths - and teachings - one by one. <ul><li>1. Esoteric Christian Path - Holy Order of Mans</li><li> 2. Bhakti path - no formal initiation but was instrumental in development </li><li>3. Buddhist - initiate name Karma Sonam Wangmo - Karma Kagyu path (this was really simply a connection with past life tradition) there was remembrence of doing Chod practices in former life and this was a conscious seeing. hahahahahaha nothing is lost from lifetime to lifetime when it comes to spiritual endeavors. </li><li>4. Sri Rajiv instruction into Tantric and blowing out all conditionings. Commissioned to be a Guru. </li><li>5. Sundar Puri - aiding in his passing - also he pointed for this one to give to those in the west (this is also having to do with past life- one could say tying up lose ends hahahahahahah). He really pushed for the taking of Sannyas in this tradition as it has to do with Kundalini.</li><li> 6. Ushered into Sannyas - after Realization. Into this old tradition and lineage of Shavism. For whatever reason this was the way it unfolded.
* Does the lineage only matter if a person becomes a Guru, versus Realization?
- hahahahaha It only matters to those in the world that have a bookish mentality. It is only another way to *classify and to box in a way of thinking*. The world wants a way to define and catagorize but really the path is about breaking free of all of this. Simply what is meant by all of this is that one needs to have a Realized Master or Guru in place to aide in ones journey or else one has simply a blind man bumping through the night. Without having the Gurus and Mentors in place that were there at the right time this one would still be wandering around in no-mans land chasing phenomena and having ideas about what it should be versus being able to break through to the Reality. It is only a Realized Master that can understand and stabalize one that is having the conditioned mind broken apart and dismantling, pulling one towards Realization. ONLY 0-ne that rests in Realization understands whether or not it is Realization or just another passing stage along the way. The one traversing these stages can get to a passing stage where there is Bliss and oneness and may mistake it to be Realization. This is where it is Paramount to have in place a Guide and Mentor that KNOWS the path - the way - from start to finish.
* Thank you for your follow up question.
- You are most welcome The journey here was long and colorful - hahahaahahah it was like tying up lose ends from lifetimes of practices and coming out the other side Free of them. O-ne enters into the Tradition and Lineage of Lineage Holders - those who speak from the Fluidity of Crazy Wisdom or Direct and Penetrating Knowing that carries the Transmission of Stillness Directly. It does no good to be locked into a *tradition* or even a *lineage* when it has been reduced to dogmas and dead practices.
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