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Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: January 11, 2010 07:52AM

'Both promoted Ray around the time of The Secret, but only Larry King has covered the Death Lodge.'

Agreed. I find anyone who has been associated and who has profited from that association with Ray, who now cannot openly denounce his behaviour must be suspect. Silence on such an issue is appalling.

I generally try to stay away from considering the ethics of others, I have enough trouble trying to figure out my own, but this is an open pattern of repeated destructive behaviours, there is no excuse for silence from any of us.

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Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: January 11, 2010 08:42AM

Cassandra Yorgey, who has access to pictures of some of the documents taken as evidence from James Ray, has another post analysing some of Ray's workings on his events. He seems to have been working out how to use LGAT techniques already in use by others and putting his own personal spin on them.

Worth a read as it becomes clear that Ray was practising his delivery of fake sincerity along with the destructive techniques--not much wiggle-room left for any devotees still trying to see Death Ray as a misunderstood leader with the misfortune to be caught up in an appalling accident through no fault of his own.

Ray doc analysis

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Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by: quackdave ()
Date: January 11, 2010 10:23AM

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objektivist
....... I'm grateful to have found this site to hear about what really goes on behind closed doors.

Welcome, objektivist. Thanks for sharing your recent experiences. You are not alone; this story (mine is a bit like yours) is not at all uncommon. I only came here a little over a year ago, after nearly going to the next level with BKI, after doing "The Work" online.

To encourage you, let me say that I am so much stronger and clearer minded than I ever thought I would be. I have quite a ways to go, before I feel confident to walk into the lion's den and converse with these professional persuaders, but I imagine more power is forthcoming. Growth takes time, eh?

qd

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Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by: Eddystone ()
Date: January 13, 2010 08:47PM

Sweat-lodge documents reveal chaotic scene

by JJ Hensley - Jan. 13, 2010 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic


Hundreds of documents released Tuesday give the most complete picture yet of the events that took place at a sweat lodge outside Sedona that left three people dead and a spiritual guru's empire on shaky ground.

The interview transcripts also provide insight into the task investigators face in putting together a case against James Arthur Ray more than three months after the sweat-lodge ceremony.

The accounts from participants and observers give conflicting versions of what took place at the Angel Valley Retreat Center on Oct. 8, including key points of whether Ray adequately prepared participants or discouraged people from leaving the sweltering structure as temperatures inside increased.

Yavapai County investigators are still trying to determine what responsibility Ray might have for the events that left three people dead and more than a dozen hospitalized, but a detective's interview with a survivor in late October hints at the possibilities:

Detective Shonna Willingham told Stephen Ray (no relation to James Ray) that Arizona law enforcement can look at four culpable mental states for homicide: intentionally, knowingly, recklessly or negligently, all of which are based on what a reasonable person would do.

"But we are looking at a lot of avenues, but you hit the nail on the head that this isn't intentionally or knowingly, it's not a first and second degree," Willingham is quoted as saying in October. "We are going to be fortunate to get either reckless or negligent."

The investigation is ongoing, and James Ray has not been charged with any crime.

Throughout the interviews, patterns emerge in detectives' questions, with detectives repeatedly focusing on three areas:

• Were the participants adequately prepared for what awaited them in the sweat lodge? Many participants told detectives that Ray and his staff members told them to hydrate before the sweat-lodge ceremony, after spending 36 hours fasting in the woods. Ray also told participants they would be extremely hot inside the 415-square-foot sweat lodge.

• Was Ray's team adequately prepared for a medical emergency that might arise from the sweat lodge? Participants say Ray discouraged someone from calling an ambulance for a man who required medical care at a 2005 sweat-lodge event in Sedona. This year, most of those interviewed described a chaotic scene where participants were helping one another but adequate professional medical care wasn't available until ambulances arrived about 15 minutes after someone called 911.

• Did Ray tell participants he was adequately trained to perform such a ceremony? For many people detectives interviewed, Ray's sweat lodge was their first experience with the Native American purification rite. It wasn't until after the fatal ceremony that participants learned a traditional sweat lodge might have up to 12 people inside. Ray's event involved between 50 and 60 people for more than two hours. The participants said Ray told them his experience with shamans and spiritual leaders taught him how to properly perform the ritual.

Ray touted his sweat lodges as hotter than most, according to participants.

Representatives for Ray say he has worked with Arizona investigators since late October to determine what led to the deaths.

Ray subsequently postponed his remaining 2009 events, though his Web site shows events begin again in February, including another Spiritual Warrior retreat scheduled for Sedona in September.

The documents released Tuesday include interviews with former members of Ray's staff, including Tere Gingerella, who said the 2005 incident should have offered some warning about the dangers in Ray's sweat lodge.

Daniel Pfankuch was taken to a hospital after the incident. Doctors there told him he suffered from heat stroke and severe dehydration.

"I mean, in my opinion, that was huge," Gingerella told a detective in early November. "When I heard about what happened . . . a couple weeks ago, I, was I shocked? Not really, because my last experience at the sweat lodge was not a good one."

Luis Li, a Ray attorney, said the statements about the 2005 incident, which multiple witnesses recounted, were "neither accurate or credible."

"We've checked the records and Mr. Pfankuch signed up for, and attended, three additional James Ray International events after attending the 2005 sweat lodge," Li said.



[www.azcentral.com]

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Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: January 13, 2010 10:35PM

A good blog on Ray from Salty Droid info, The Anticult gets a mention. Disclaimer: the language can get a bit ripe on this site so be warned:

salty droid blog



James Arthur Ray :: and his shriveled useless nut-sack :: were frequent guests of the news media. The media asked tough questions like: “Don’t you just love the smell of rain?” :: and :: “Why are you so gosh dang awesome?” You can watch five glorious minutes of them wasting our time and leading us to slaughter here :: free of charge {you’re welcome}.

Over the course of several years :: Ray made dozens of different TV appearances. Local :: National :: Cable :: Business :: Oprah. The dude got around. But there is something strange about all these appearances. James NEVER goes off his script :: and the script never changes. Same words :: same inflections :: same lame jokes :: same awkward timing. Please enjoy three minutes of auto-pilot auto-answers ….

(Ther is an imbedded vid on Ray here, visit the site to watch)

salty droid blog



Why?

1. Maybe he’s block stupid? I know that The Anticult is going to be all like :: “No he’s not! These are sophisticated techniques that can’t be pulled off by your average person. There are sophisticated criminals behind all the fronts and facades.” Okay :: true enough … usually. But :: but :: his employees aren’t allowed to talk to him. He’s yet to do a single interview {doesn’t he love the sound of his own voice?}. He didn’t seem to notice people were dead after the sweat lodge. One of the “five pillars” of Harmonic Wealth is “relational” {holy sheesh that’s dumb!}. He said nothing in his own defense to the police :: and then left his passport :: steroids :: and anti-herpes medicine behind.

The Droid thinks that maybe a few of the clones of clones :: like Death Ray here :: do have some of the stupid in them.

2. Or maybe {and more likely} he is using certain words :: and word sequences :: to trigger reactions and associations in his followers. Cassandra Yorgey wrote about Ray’s Event Matrix which had a column for “trigger words” that were correlated to each of the different money sucking seminars. NLP :: Group Hypnosis :: LGAT :: Sleep Deprivation :: Mania … it’s the main course. Then in the follow up calls :: the media appearances :: the emails :: the web marketing … the implanted trigger words are used deliberately :: and specifically … to produce the desired response.

Any one thing alone would probably not be enough effect behaviors :: but together {along with active encouragement to disengage from the real people in your real life} :: it forms a cloud of unconscious persuasion that is hard to break free from.

Stupidity or Manipulation? Either way the media allowed James Arthur Ray to use their wide area distribution networks to pump his “message” out to the masses. Each appearance brought in more fish :: and built up credibility. His followers heard the words from the seminars :: words from their group … their cult … their inside words. “See … he is normal. This is normal. We are the new mainstream!”

He can’t be a ConMan :: he’s always on TV.

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Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: January 13, 2010 10:54PM

JAR statement

An official statement released on behalf of Ray.

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Re: James Arthur Ray, Dave Lakhani, www.boldapproach.com
Posted by: ImthatDave ()
Date: January 14, 2010 07:01AM

Hi everyone and especially The Anti Cult and Buffman

Dave Lakhani here. I tried to sign up for an account using my real name and my primary email address but it appeared not to work, when I used a different email address it worked fine, not sure if that was just a glitch or a function of moderation.

I've been a long time supporter of Rick Ross and remain a supporter, I believe the organization does tremendous work for people coming out of what in many cases are very difficult situations. I've referred literally hundreds of people here over the years.

And you may be surprised to know I'm not at all upset by your observations or remarks though many of them are off base or based on incorrect assumptions and interpretations. I'd like to present my side of the picture here and people can then make a decision based balance not a couple of people's opinions based on having never spoken to me.

I'd also like to suggest that I'll publicly debate what I've written with anyone any time and if during that debate you find me to be a manipulator, I'll respect your opinion, I'm confident you won't

First, let me say I think that you have not drawn a clear line between what is proper and ethical sales and what is improper manipulation and I don't think you've done a good job of defining manipulation.

By definition any attempt to change someone's mind is manipulation. That means if I ask you if you want fries with your Big Mac meal I'm manipulating you. Simply asking that question causes a series of biological, physiological and psychological actions to occur in the body, all of which can encourage or discourage you based on your decision making ability. Is it manipulative? By strict definition, yes. Is it unethical? Maybe, there is certainly an argument to be made there by some people especially as it relates to children or obese people. Is the intent of McDonald's to cause you to die of heart disease? Probably not, there is no long term benefit to that for them. So that is where I draw the line. If your intent is to get whatever you want from as many people as possible by saying whatever you need to in order to get them to say yes, then I think that is highly manipulative. James Ray was clearly in that camp. I'll stick with my statement that I strongly doubt it was his intention to kill anyone and that just because it wasn't intentional doesn't make him any less culpable.

You should be very clear about taking what I said about sharing the stage with people vs. saying that they mentored me as you suggested. I didn't say that I simply listed the best known people I'd shared the stage with as good salesmanship, I stand by that. Just because I shared the stage with someone who I may not agree with doesn't mean I shouldn't mention that I've shared the stage with them, that is simply smart marketing and smart salesmanship.

To answer the Joe Vitale question. First, Joe was not in The Secret when I thanked him in my book. Second, Joe introduced me to my editor at Wiley which lead to me working out a book deal with him, he deserved to be thanked and to that end, I'm still thankful to him for that introduction. Now, for the bigger issue which was overlooked all together. I've come out very strongly about many of the things Joe has said (and I told him I was going to in advance because it was the right thing to do) in the secret and specifically what he said on Larry King about the girl who was kidnapped, sexually abused and murdered in FL. I believe that him saying that she attracted that to herself is complete nonsense and reprehensible. I'm a grown, educated adult, I can choose to agree to disagree with someone and that is where Joe and I left it.

Me teach an LGAT? Laughable. If I wanted to be that rich, I wouldn't teach an LGAT, I'd start a religion, I have no intention of doing either, ever. Your reference to my Profitable Speaker program is way off base, to my knowledge neither of you were at the training (I openly identify myself wherever I go and in forums because I think transparency is important). The training was very high level training teaching people exactly how to run the business side of a speaking business. Everything from how to get booked to how to create products to how to close better on stage. Do I teach them persuasion principles? Absolutely. Do I teach them how to build a following? Absolutely. Do I teach them how to use storytelling as a persuasion tool? Absolutely. Is anything I teach them manipulative or unethical? No. Was there a long series of upsells in the event to more and more training? Sorry to disappoint, but no. I've gone on the record publicly and built my seminars and trainings around being done with me as quickly as possible, my goal is to help people become independent, not dependent. I've spoken out very publicly on many stages about how people should not rely on people who keep trying to upsell them, that they should look at that very closely and be suspect. I've also openly said that if someone can teach you anything for $30K in a hotel room in two days that will make you rich it is most likely BS if there are no other components (for example a franchise with ongoing training etc.).

In terms of the work I offer small business people. Well, first I find it offensive that you suggest that small business owners and entrepreneurs are not smart enough to think for themselves and to make good decisions. Personally, I find quite the opposite, they are creating their own wealth and independence precisely because they think for themselves and are fiercely independent. Second, I've owned a good number of traditional businesses in the last twenty years including security companies, pre-employment testing companies, bar, pawn shop, restaurant, spa, ad agency and computer store in addition to my current company. I've been very successful thankfully and so have the businesses, many business owners find my experience very helpful in growing their businesses. I've been ranked and rated by some of the top ranking organizations in the world including Gartner research. My experience stands on its own as does my work.

When I sat out to write persuasion books it was always my goal to expose people to persuasion to keep them from making the same bad decisions that my mom did that lead me to be in a strict religious cult from the time I was six until I was sixteen. In my book Persuasion I teach the manipulation model so that people know what it looks like and can identify it when it occurs. In subliminal persuasion, I reveal exactly how subliminal persuasion occurs and how people can become aware of it. It is my belief that people need to wake up from the trance they are in every day and be aware of what is happening around them.

In terms of NLP and Hypnosis and I highly skilled in both? Yep. I've studied with the best in both practices since 1983. Here is what you may find surprising, I don't think either are particularly effective for selling nor do I recommend the study for that purpose. There are components of both that can be effective when employed by highly skilled practitioners but most people are unwilling to do the work to actually master the information. NLP and Hypnosis are best used in a therapeutic environment where there is open and honest communication about what is being attempted. In my estimation that is what makes it most effective. When people believe something will work and they want it to work, it is much more likely to occur for many reasons. I'm also of the belief that many people, particularly where stage hypnosis is involved are willing performers and not really entranced whether they recognize it or not.

I think that it was buffman who said there is never an ethical use of coercive mind control techniques. I've never endorsed the use of coercive mind control techniques. This is a leap in what I said to his statement. There is a difference between subliminal persuasion and coercion. What is being practiced when you make statements like that is exactly what you have accused me of. It is an intentional attempt to sensationalize and mislead for self promotion. Let's be clear, I don't support the use of coercive mind control techniques . . . and even then, I might make an exception for example if we could use them to disband Al Queda for example. If you've looked deeply enough though, you'll find that I've written about why torture doesn't work and why coercion is always discovered and the negative effects.

Finally, as to "having one foot in the lion's den" I make no excuses or apologies. First of all, before anything I'm an explorer and an experiential learner. I won't tell people to do or not to do anything I don't understand. Do I speak on Harv Eker's stage? Yep. Do I speak on other large stages like that? Yep. Will I do it again, probably. They question you should ask is: Why, if you disagree with much of what is sold there? And the answer is because that is where the people are and the more I can expose them to what is real and true and open their eyes to what is happening to them every day by teaching them the ethical and proper use of persuasion, the more I can keep some people who are most susceptible from being lead into something like the James Ray experience. Have I ever made mistakes or changed my minds and beliefs? Of course and will again. That is the value of being a thinker and of evolution.

I stand by all of the calls that I did talking about LGAT's and James Ray, they are my sincere beliefs. I didn't try and sell anyone anything. People said the same thing when I created thetruthisthesecret.com and co-wrote a book called The Secret Behind The Secret (my worst selling book to date by the way). Everything I say is sincere, based in research and comes from the heart based on my own upbringing. The week before my mother died she wondered out loud to me if she'd go to heaven when she died because she left the Branham group. Even after she left the group, more than a decade later they and their ideas still held sway over her. My intention is to provide people with resources to think for themselves, to observe what is happening and make lucid decisions about life. I also intend to make the job of selling and marketing good products easier for ethical salespeople and businesses and to that end I'll always research, report, and show how to implement the latest persuasion research.

I hope that whoever moderates this forum will allow this post, I'm also printing it and mailing it to Rick Ross as there have been a lot of accusations leveled at me that are at best opinions and at worst incomplete, inaccurate statements.

I don't hide, anyone on this forum can contact me anytime to verify I wrote this post or to question me about anything.

Dave Lakhani
208-323-2653

I appreciate all the work that everyone here does to bring truth to everyone and to support everyone who has been impacted by cults or coercive leaders.

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Re: James Arthur Ray - sweat lodge deaths, white papers
Posted by: buffman ()
Date: January 14, 2010 08:11AM

Two long new "white papers" have been released to the public by James Arthur Ray's lawyers:
[jamesray.com]

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Re: James Arthur Ray, Dave Lakhani, www.boldapproach.com
Posted by: buffman ()
Date: January 14, 2010 12:48PM

Hi Dave,

Thank you for sharing your opinion. You certainly are an interesting fellow.

In common parlance, there are two senses of the word manipulation, one of which implies coercion against one's will. If we instead say all communication is manipulation, then we must distinguish between good and bad manipulation--and bad manipulation involves coercion (unless we dispense with ethics altogether).

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ImthatDave
If your intent is to get whatever you want from as many people as possible by saying whatever you need to in order to get them to say yes, then I think that is highly manipulative. James Ray was clearly in that camp. I'll stick with my statement that I strongly doubt it was his intention to kill anyone and that just because it wasn't intentional doesn't make him any less culpable.

Your only criteria for "good manipulation" is good intent, yet you also say James Ray didn't intend to kill anyone and is somehow still culpable. So either Ray is beyond all moral condemnation and his communication wasn't manipulative because of his supposed "good intent" (which is speculation of course), or we must admit that "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" and his impact also matters. If people dying at his event wasn't intentional yet he is still culpable, he is culpable because of the results of his communication. I would call this manipulative, unethical, and perhaps even illegal (which is of course up to the law to decide). Or as they say in NLP, "the meaning of your communication is the result that you get." So when James Ray said "we'll deal with her in the next round," the meaning of his communication was that people died as a direct result. Manipulation 101.

The philosophical foundations for ethics are of course up to debate, but few would argue that Ray isn't a manipulator (except of course his lawyers and die-hard {pun intended} fans).

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ImthatDave
Just because I shared the stage with someone who I may not agree with doesn't mean I shouldn't mention that I've shared the stage with them, that is simply smart marketing and smart salesmanship.

If you pick up one end of the stick, you pick up the other. You decided to associate your name with T. Harv Ecker, Joe Vitale, and other scammers to boost your PR. As they fall, so do you. In PR terms, it doesn't matter if you disagree on minor points with Ecker and Vitale--of course you will, you are a human being. But your friends say a lot about who you are as well, Mr. Lakhani, in terms of your reputation and values. I trust you as much as I trust Ecker and Vitale--which is to say, as far as I can throw you. I'm happy that you publicly questioned some of the idiotic things Vitale has said, yet you continue to connect your name with Vitale's--for better and worse. As a PR professional, you of course already know all of this.

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ImthatDave
When I sat out to write persuasion books it was always my goal to expose people to persuasion to keep them from making the same bad decisions that my mom did that lead me to be in a strict religious cult from the time I was six until I was sixteen. In my book Persuasion I teach the manipulation model so that people know what it looks like and can identify it when it occurs. In subliminal persuasion, I reveal exactly how subliminal persuasion occurs and how people can become aware of it. It is my belief that people need to wake up from the trance they are in every day and be aware of what is happening around them.

Do you recognize these words of yours, Mr. Lakhani?

"Subliminal persuasion occurs when you are able to successfully implant a message in the mind of a person or group of people whom you target for change without their conscious evaluation of the change, and encourage them to spread the idea organically to their associates. ... Subliminal persuasion is a learned skill set that when fully learned and integrated, disappears into the area of competent competence; you don’t have to think about it to do it, you just do it. And the more time you spend focused on experiencing, testing, and leveraging these ideas in your business, your marketing, your advertising, and your sales processes, the more you’ll spread the ideas that you must, so you can get more of whatever it is that you want . . . money, sex, power, fame, or anything else." ~pages 2 and 3 of Subliminal Persuasion by Dave Lakhani

...or how about this: "Subliminal persuasion goes unseen, entering your mind under the conscious radar of critical thinking and it goes undetected and that is what makes it so effective." from [www.subliminalpersuasionbook.com] I think most people would agree that you could replace the word "effective" with "manipulative" (in the pejorative sense) and the meaning of this sentence would be unchanged...or at least most people who aren't in the spin business!

Tell me, Mr. Lakhani--how is teaching people to "implant a message ... without their conscious evaluation of the change" for "whatever it is that you want...money, sex, power, fame" helping people to "wake up from the trance"?

In my opinion, you are teaching the future generation of Joe Vitale's and James Arthur Ray's to entrance and manipulate others for their own egoic glorification--the exact opposite of the Rick Ross's and Margaret Singer's of the world.

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ImthatDave
I think that it was buffman who said there is never an ethical use of coercive mind control techniques. I've never endorsed the use of coercive mind control techniques. This is a leap in what I said to his statement. There is a difference between subliminal persuasion and coercion. What is being practiced when you make statements like that is exactly what you have accused me of. It is an intentional attempt to sensationalize and mislead for self promotion.

Do you recognize this copy, Mr. Lakhani? It's on your website, and it's what I previously quoted.

"I'm also going to teach cult mind control tactics so that you can understand how people become indoctrinated and brainwashed. I'll also demonstrate the ethical use of these techniques (this was one of the areas that made my publisher uncomfortable)." from [www.subliminalpersuasionbook.com]

I'll repeat that, just in case you missed it a second time--you wrote "I'm also going to teach CULT MIND CONTROL TACTICS...I'll demonstrate the ethical use of these techniques." Tell me, Mr. Lakhani, what's the difference between "cult mind control tactics" and "coercive persuasion" in your fancy ethical system you've got there?

And yes, SOMEONE seems to be sensationalizing and misleading for self promotion. Who could it be? The anonymous Rick Ross forum members, who have nothing for sale, and no way of connecting their posts to anything personal whatsoever? (That's the point of anonymity, by the way.) Or could it be that the person who is selling how to perform subliminal persuasion techniques with copy that says he teaches the ethical uses of cult mind control tactics?

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ImthatDave
Finally, as to "having one foot in the lion's den" I make no excuses or apologies.

Distancing yourself from those you have surrounded yourself with when they are exposed as scammers seems like an excuse to me. But you clearly have your own reasons to justify your ongoing association with Ecker and similar characters.

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ImthatDave
I appreciate all the work that everyone here does to bring truth to everyone and to support everyone who has been impacted by cults or coercive leaders.

Me too. I even appreciate your post and podcast about James Arthur Ray, and the times you emphasize critical thinking (not so much the times you emphasize and teach how to trick people into doing what you want for your own ends). You seem sincere about wanting to help people escape cults, yet I still find too many red flags and contradictions to find your words trustworthy.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2010 12:54PM by buffman.

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Re: James Arthur Ray - Dave Lakhani and "intent"
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: January 14, 2010 02:17PM

James Ray is not as stupid as he may appear at first glance, but as I said long ago, he really is a 3rd-rate manipulator/persuader. He is nowhere near the skills of the more advanced people, who are able to evade getting in serious trouble, and keep going for decades making millions.

James Ray was able to select easy-targets from The Secret and from being on Oprah, and ruthlessly exploit them. His sociopathic personality kept him moving forward, even after many injuries and the recent death of Colleen Conaway during his seminar. It seems the astounding arrogance of James Ray made him think he could get away with it, with disclaimers with a "death clause" in them.

James Ray ordered his "employees" not to talk to him, as that is his power-trip. Many of these LGAT guru's get their employees to do their laundry, clean toilets, and do anything they ask of them. That is part of the POWER structure. Its part of their training to lie for him too, when ordered. It makes James Ray seem like a superman to the employees, and they will do anything to please him and get his attention. It also makes sure all communication is ONE-WAY, from James Ray to them.


As far as James Ray not doing any interviews and fleeing the scene without talking to the police, that is how James Ray does it. For example, when Colleen Conaway died during his seminar, he got out of there fast, and they called their lawyers, and covered it up from the rest of that staff, which has been shown from many sources. James Ray knows when bad things happen, just get out of there, don't say anything, and deny everything, which worked for him until recently.


The Harmonic Wealth stuff to James Ray is just "content". He knows its hogwash, but you have to have a "content" to distract people's conscious minds. That is the first thing you learn...they call it Belief Systems or BS. So all of the James Ray Harmonic Wealth BS is literally just "content" meant to occupy peoples minds. Anyone who studies advanced persuasion learns that right away.
The overt "content" is not the real message, its actually a distraction, and is often used to create confusion and misdirection.
Like when a magician is telling you to look at his right hand, that is to allow the left hand to do the trick.

Watch this basketball video experiment to see this in action. [forum.culteducation.com]



James Ray knew people were dead after the sweat lodge, that is why he got out of there so fast.
Not speaking to the police on the scene or after, is actually a very clever thing for James Ray to have done, as James Ray knows that professional investigators are not going to be fooled by his Stories. He knows they will catch him up.
And why did he leave behind all that stuff? FEAR, he was scared shitless about what could happen to him, and got out of there probably on the advice of some attorney. The attorney probably would tell him, say nothing, and leave. James Ray is not stupid. He knows if his hired pro's can create enough fog, confusion, and uncertainy, he might be able to totally get away with it, even on a technicality.


The stuff above from Dave Lakhani, about James Ray's "intent" is doublespeak and misdirection.
James Ray had a seriously BAD INTENT to exploit vulnerable people for his own profit, no matter the cost to those people. He was one of the most deliberate, obvious, and vicious practioners of this level of persuasion and mind-control, who wanted to "experiment" and take it as far as it can be taken.
Of course James Ray didn't plan to spend the rest of his life in prison for 1st degree.
But James Ray knew many people had been SERIOUSLY hurt at his seminars in the past, and he knew Colleen Conaway died during his seminar which they covered up. Also, its now been proven that James Ray trained his salespeople to look for the vulnerabilites in his clients and ruthlessly EXPLOIT them.
He also was deliberately pushing people into "near-death" experiences, and one can think about the reasons for that. On top of that, he was dressing up like God, and ordering people to die, and the rest of it. So the POWER was going to his head.

Why push people to the edge of death? Why block them from help when they were in serious distress?
Why put a "death clause" in your contract? [forum.culteducation.com]
Why cover up a recent death during a recent seminar?

The only reasonable conclusion is this person was knowingly pushing people to the edge of death, and even into death, for his own reasons. Maybe he thought having a "death waiver" [forum.culteducation.com] would allow him to conduct seminars in which people died.

Maybe he thought that since people die climbing Everest, then why can't they die at his seminars?
After all, nothing happened to him after Colleen Conaway died during his seminar.

Anyone claiming that James Ray had any type of good "intent" to his clients/victims, is either willingly delusional, or is being dishonest. Obviously, James Ray's "intent" was to find vulnerable people, and then exploit the hell out of them at all costs. ALL costs.
Read his disclaimer, they knew exactly how people were getting injured physically, financially, and even dying.

To try and reframe that into any type of postive or non-exploitative "intent" is despicable.
Every crook claims good "intent", and some of them believe it. The car-jacker didn't "intend" to shoot you, he says its YOUR fault for trying to resist.

Even people who start wars always claim their "intent" is self-defense of their country. That is called propaganda.

This nonsense about "intent" is a deliberate Red Herring, a self-righteous attempt to say...those other guys are bad because I say they are, but me and my buddies have a Holy "intent" and are thus OK...so buy our stuff.

Every single exploitative persuader and manipulator claims they have a positive "intent" to help people. Even when busted red-handed, and convicted to sent to the grey-bar hotel, they still keep claiming they were innocent, were framed..etc.

If people are being EXPLOITED, that is what matters, not the imagined "intent" of the persuader. Every single one of these persuader-manipulators tells the public they have a positive "intent".
Name one who doesn't?








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Stoic
A good blog on Ray from Salty Droid info, The Anticult gets a mention. Disclaimer: the language can get a bit ripe on this site so be warned:

salty droid blog

(Ther is an imbedded vid on Ray here, visit the site to watch)

salty droid blog

Why?

1. Maybe he’s block stupid? I know that The Anticult is going to be all like :: “No he’s not! These are sophisticated techniques that can’t be pulled off by your average person. There are sophisticated criminals behind all the fronts and facades.” Okay :: true enough … usually. But :: but :: his employees aren’t allowed to talk to him. He’s yet to do a single interview {doesn’t he love the sound of his own voice?}. He didn’t seem to notice people were dead after the sweat lodge. One of the “five pillars” of Harmonic Wealth is “relational” {holy sheesh that’s dumb!}. He said nothing in his own defense to the police :: and then left his passport :: steroids :: and anti-herpes medicine behind.

The Droid thinks that maybe a few of the clones of clones :: like Death Ray here :: do have some of the stupid in them.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2010 02:35PM by The Anticult.

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