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Re: James Arthur Ray - Dave Lakhani and "intent"
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: January 14, 2010 05:25PM

There is so much above from Dave Lakhani that needs to be looked at, and it will be looked at as time permits.
After all, he's not the only person in the world who's worked with ole Richard Bandler.

But take note of the serious WARNING in previous posts, about being extremely cautious when "talking in person" or on the phone, to these kinds of professional advanced persuaders. Remember, they do this professionally for a living, and some have done it for decades. This is a SERIOUS warning about calling up a professional persuader/manipulator on the phone.

HOW TO NOT GET KNOCKED OUT:
Would you get into a sparring ring with a blackbelt in Taekwondo, when you've never practiced martial arts? What if the guy inviting you into the ring, had a big smile on his face?
What if the blackbelt Taekwondo expert was wearing a nice sweater, and pretended he wasn't a blackbelt, would you Voluntarily walk into the ring?
What if he told you that Taekwondo is not as effective as everyone thinks...and to not look at the 900 lb gorilla in the room and instead to direct your Attention to where he is putting it now? ..that's right...

Would you like to get knocked Unconscious in seconds by this person? You will literally not even see it coming.
Beware, as those who are professional and experts, can literally have you in a submission hold in minutes if not SECONDS.

Dave Lakhani talks in his writings about inducing trance rapidly, and some of these guys know they can use those techniques in literally minutes. Watch out.

The entire point of many recent threads, is exploring the precise techniques used by persuasion experts person to person, in what appears to be "normal conversation". That is conversational trance and hypno-persuasion, and its very powerful and effective, especially when the guy who is doing it to you, tells you its NOT that effective.
(normally they just say it doesn't exist, at the exact same time they are doing it to you).
Or like Byron Katie, they say reality doesn't exist, while they are doing it to you.

The Taekwondo martial artist inviting you into the ring using deception and misdirection, is the professional persuasion expert who's studied all of the techniques in the world, inviting you to phone him, to have a "conversation"...conversational hypnosis and persuasion..that is.
You don't stand a chance, unless you are too a blackbelt, and you will not know what hit you, until you are knocked out, and then its a bit late.


SUBLIMINAL PERSUASION:
There is a book called Subliminal Persuasion Book By Dave Lakhani, and its sitting right here.
The Forword is by Kevin Hogan, the hypnotist and persuader. Even Kevin Hogan in the books intro tells you to "WATCH OUT...Dave might have a hidden agenda he isn't telling you about".

Well, someone is going to tell you about it.
First off, he is using that technique, of telling people to watch out, as a technique to build mysteryin the reader. When a persuader tells you to watch out for the hidden agenda, then they are trying to give you a double-whammy mindfuck, as they know their audience is looking for that. Its a Red Herring for more misdirection.

He does the same thing in the book from page 1. One page 1, Dave Lakhani says his publisher refused to publish the REAL book he wanted to publish as it was TOO DANGEROUS, and made him publish a more lame one. (so you just bought a crappy lame book sucker!)
Do you believe that? Hopefully not. Its a tactic.
He wants it to sound like he wrote a banned book, and that the real edgy material is not in the book, as its too dangerous.
That way later, he can direct you to his "exclusive" group which pays lots of money to learn the alleged secret techniques of persuasion. (read his previous book to learn that specific technique)
So he's setting you up for that from the first page of the book, from first contact.
You are being primed to want to join up into the expensive exclusive group, to learn the real DANGEROUS techniques of mass persuasion, that are not in the book.

Who is that meant to attract? Its meant to attract the kind of people who want to be able to do that kind of exploitation and manipulation to people.

As has been said before, its the big sharks eating the little wannabe sharks for lunch.

He even says elsewhere he might REJECT you from the inner group, even if you have the money! (haha! that is another tactic from his other book, when you REJECT your clients and try to play hard to get). Dave is gonna take your money, you can take that to the bank.

This is why James Ray and Byron Katie target the NEW AGE audience, as they don't ask these kinds of questions. They just go into a deep-trance on command, and buy what they are told to buy.

But does not even scratch the surface of what is going down with this.

Its a shame some respected researchers don't carefully go through all of these advanced persuasion techniques, and write some textbooks explaining them in great detail, for the benefit of those who get exploited.
Until that happens, one has to get some info from those Blackbelt persuaders, who are kicking you in the head to knock you unconscious, at the same time supposedly teaching you persuasion techniques.

Its almost comical how without exception, as they are kicking you in the head to knock you unconscious, they are telling you that kicks to the head are not that powerful.
They are telling you that, so you don't duck.

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Dave Lakhani cult mind control tactics, brainwashing
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: January 14, 2010 06:36PM

As predicted, is Dave Lakhani using those precise techniques below, to try to upsell people to attend his seminars, and purchase his products.
Notice he claims to give a FRIGHTENING EXPERIENCE, (that is to create an emotional response) and to reveal information they would not allow in the book (more manipulation bullshit!), and to teach cult mind control tactics and brainwashing, and how to use those techniques.

The "ethical" BS is just about pandering to a portion of the audience that doesn't want to know how a sausage is made.

The reality is that Dave Lakhani does understand indoctrination, brainwashing and cult mind control tactics, and how to use them.
And he also knows the most advanced people present them in a completely covert way that untrained people cannot recognize.

So he sees exactly what James Ray was doing to those people in the brainwashing tent (sweatlodge) and the entire James Ray mind control program. But he just doesn't want to get drawn into it too much.

The sales approach of Dave Lakhani to market FEAR, and covert knowledge, and exclusivity, with a little bit of "ethical" window-dressing, tells you what you need to know. He's ambiguous about the "ethical" part, as he tries to have it both ways.
He knows the wannabe scammers will just ignore that part of it, and those bleeding-heart whiners out there will feel consoled seeing the word "ethical".

Professional covert persuaders think very differently than normal people about persuasion/manipulation.
Professional persuaders think its unethical to NOT take all your money using every tactic they can think of, if you are "weak/stupid" enough to fall for it. Survival of the fittest.

As a matter of fact, Tony Robbins teaches that manipulation is a good thing, that you manipulate people for their own good, as buying your expensive rip-off illusions will help them, even if they don't know it and don't want it.
Its just semantic window-dressing, used as a fig-leaf to hide behind. They take words like "ethics" and "intent" and reframe their meanings.

That is exactly what Werner Erhard did with the word "Integrity"

Werner Erhard on Integrity, Morality, Ethics, Legality (not a joke!) [forum.culteducation.com]

Integrity: A Positive Model that Incorporates the Normative Phenomena of Morality, Ethics and Legality [forum.culteducation.com]


__________QUOTE______________
Dave Lakhani – Renegades of Persuasion
[www.tactools.org]

Dave Lakhani – I’ll be bringing you two key components in this event and one frightening

experience. I’m going to reveal the information that they would not allow me to include in

the book Subliminal Persuasion and I’ll show you exactly how to use the information. I’m

also going to teach cult mind control tactics so that you can understand how people

become indoctrinated and brainwashed. I’ll also demonstrate the ethical use of these

techniques (this was one of the areas that made my publisher uncomfortable).

___________________________________



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2010 06:49PM by The Anticult.

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Re: Dave Lakhani cult mind control tactics, brainwashing
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: January 14, 2010 07:03PM

One thing about Dave Lakhani, is at least he admits there is such a thing as advanced unconscious persuasion techniques.
Even though he immediately tries to misdirect away from some of the most powerful techniques, at least he admits there are many dozens of techniques that are being used all over the place.

Notice how people like Byron Katie, Stever Robbins, and many others will literally DENY that such techniques even exist, while that is what they do for a living.
Even Tony Robbins, when asked point blank about these techniques in the media, will deny the tech exists, while using the same techniques in that very moment in another form, probably just to entertain himself.

So the vast majority of those use use the techniques, deny the techniques exist, or that they use them.
So its at least better to admit to some of the techniques and how they work.

But always watch for the misdirection, which is a pre-frame that starts right from page 1, they start that from first-contact.

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Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by: Eddystone ()
Date: January 14, 2010 09:02PM

[And now, a word from Ray's paid apologists...]



Lawyers: No crime in fatal sweat-lodge incident

by JJ Hensley - Jan. 13, 2010 01:08 PM
The Arizona Republic


James Ray's attorneys are adamant that their client did everything he could to prevent his sweat lodge from turning deadly outside Sedona in October.

In letters Ray's attorneys wrote to the Yavapai County Attorney's Office during the past two months, the lawyers call the event that left three people dead and more than 20 ill "a tragic accident."

Yavapai County officials are continuing to investigate what went wrong in the 415-square-foot sweat lodge on the Angel Valley Retreat Center in early October, and what role Ray's actions may have played in the deaths of Kirby Brown, 38, James Shore, 40 and Liz Neuman, 49. In transcripts released Tuesday, a detective tells one of the sweat lodge survivors that investigators are looking at a lot of avenues, but "we are going to be fortunate to get either reckless or negligent (homicide)."

Ray, 51, has not been charged with any crime; his attorney's argue that under Arizona's statutes the personal success adviser and author did nothing criminal at the Spiritual Warrior retreat, where some participants paid as much as $9,000 for the experience.

Ray's attorneys point out that:

• Sweat lodges aren't inherently dangerous.

• Ray did not construct the sweat lodge and can't be held responsible for any flaws that might have contributed to the three deaths.

• The 55 people inside the structure voluntarily chose to be there.

• Ray did not prevent anyone from leaving the sweat lodge, either through force or coercion, as some participants have alleged in civil cases filed against James Ray International.

• Ray took adequate precautions for a medical emergency when he had a nurse stationed outside the structure, along with other employees who were trained in CPR

• Ray had conducted the sweat-lodge ceremony in past years without incident.

A 2005 event where a man required medical treatment prompted Ray to make changes in the event that included reducing the number of "rounds" for participants to complete the ceremony and moving the ceremony to daylight hours to increase visibility.

"To prove negligent homicide, the state must prove either that (1) a sweat lodge itself creates a 'substantial and unjustifiable risk of death' that Mr. Ray, in a gross deviation from the standard of care, failed to perceive; or (2) that Mr. Ray operated this sweat lodge in a manner that created such a risk and then was grossly unreasonable in failing to perceive that this risk existed," the letter reads. "Neither theory can be proven here."

Yavapai County authorities haven't given any indication on when the investigation may wrap up.

Ray is also facing a handful of civil lawsuits from participants in the sweat lodge ceremony and families of victims.

A few weeks after the event, Ray canceled his 2009 public appearances, but his Web site indicates his seminars are starting again next month in San Diego and include a stop in Sedona for another Spiritual Warrior retreat in September.




[www.azcentral.com]

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Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by: shakti ()
Date: January 15, 2010 01:38AM

OK, something very troubling is going on here. That puff piece from James Arthur Ray's attorneys has been used to replace a PREVIOUS critical article on Ray. The original article is rapidly disappearing from the Web, probably due to threats from Ray's attorneys. In fact, while trying to find the original article (which I noticed had disappeared from one of my tabs and which I was unable to find again on the Washington Post website), one of the pages even redirected me to this latest "ray's attorneys said" article. Very troubling. Here is the original article before it disappears completely:

[www.kpic.com]


Docs in fatal sweat lodge case show past problems

by FELICIA FONSECA Associated Press Writer

Originally printed at [www.kpic.com]

PRESCOTT, Ariz. (AP) - Documents released in the investigation of a fatal sweat lodge ceremony show that people lost consciousness and others suffered broken bones at past events led by self-help guru James Arthur Ray, but Ray largely ignored the medical problems that arose.

Three people died after an Oct. 8 sweat lodge ceremony that was the highlight of Ray's five-day "Spiritual Warrior" event at a retreat he rented near Sedona. The Yavapai County sheriff's office has focused a homicide investigation on Ray, who has made millions of dollars by convincing people his words will lead them to spiritual and financial wealth.

In documents released Monday, a man Ray hired to build the sweat lodge told investigators that he was hesitant to assist with the ceremony for a third year because participants previously had emerged in medical distress, and emergency help wasn't summoned. Theodore Mercer said the latest ceremony was hotter than in years past, but Ray repeatedly told participants, "You are not going to die. You might think you are, but you're not going to die."

Mercer's wife, Debra, told investigators that one man emerged from the sweat lodge halfway through the October ceremony believing he was having a heart attack and would die. She said that instead of summoning medical aid, Ray said "It's a good day to die," according to a search warrant affidavit.

When Ray was advised that two participants were unconscious near the end of the two-hour ceremony, Debra Mercer said Ray did not appear overly concerned and said they would be OK until the end.

A message left Monday at a phone listing for the Mercers was not immediately returned.

No charges have been filed. The investigation, including hundreds of interviews, is expected to be turned over to prosecutors next month. Sheriff's officials said they would have no further comment until then.

Ray has hired his own investigative team to determine what went wrong. Brad Brian, an attorney for Ray, said in a statement Monday that Ray's representatives have been working with Arizona authorities to determine the facts, and he urged people not to jump to conclusions.

Brian said he believes the investigation will show "that the Sedona tragedy was a terrible accident that no one, including James Ray, could have seen coming."

Authorities and participants have said no one was forced to remain in the sweat lodge, but they were highly encouraged to stay inside.

Sheriff's officials said they found nothing to explain how the three people - Kirby Brown, 38, of Westtown, N.Y.; James Shore, 40, of Milwaukee; and Liz Neuman, 49, of Prior Lake, Minn. - died other than the extreme heat inside the pitch-black sweat lodge - a 415-square-foot makeshift sauna covered with tarps and blankets and heated with hot rocks.

Authorities have interviewed most of the more than 50 people who attended the event and detailed about a dozen of the interviews in documents released Monday after a judge ruled last week that they be made public.

Some of the people told investigators that Ray responded to cries for help from a man who was burned and warned other participants not to leave the sweat lodge during eight 15-minute rounds so they wouldn't also be scorched by the hot rocks in the center.

Others who were interviewed by investigators described suffering broken bones at other Ray-led events after being instructed to break bricks with their hands. Others said they vomited and slipped into altered states of consciousness.

Mickey Reynolds, who attended Ray's 2005 "Spiritual Warrior" event said it was implied the sweat lodge was safe since Ray had done the ceremonies before. Reynolds told investigators there was no discussion of safety procedures or a plan if something went wrong.

The owner of the Sedona retreat, Amayra Hamilton, said she told Ray in 2005 that he would have to change his ceremonies after a man became severely ill and she saw improvements the following year.

Richard Wright said he took part in the latest sweat lodge as a test of courage, enduring seven of eight 15-minute rounds. The Fort Lauderdale, Fla., resident told The Associated Press participants never were asked to provide emergency contacts or answer questions about their health, and they never were given a clear picture of the effects of a sweat lodge.

Instead, they took Ray's word that vomiting and passing out were normal, he said.

"We all chose what we did," Wright said. "But again, if you make a choice with only having half the story, have you really made a choice?"

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Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by: wondriwhy ()
Date: January 15, 2010 06:16AM

AntiCult-I love reading your posts. You are very concise and straight to the point.Thank you for your insights on JAR.

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Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: January 15, 2010 06:50AM

Links to the documents released on Tuesday, interviews by officers at the scene and in the hospital.
Far from helping out with the injured and dying, Ray was found in his cabin having a meal while the emergency services worked on the injured and did not want to interrupt his meal to answer questions!

narrative 1

part 2

part 3

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Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: January 15, 2010 07:10AM

'Subliminal persuasion occurs when you are able to successfully implant a message in the mind of a person or group of people whom you target for change without their conscious evaluation of the change, and encourage them to spread the idea organically to their associates.' --Dave Lakhani


without their conscious evaluation of the change, --which means without their consent, which means that Mr Lakhani is another one playing God, another one deciding what is best for another human being, another one putting his own agenda before the interests and well-being of his 'targets for change.'

I don't see this as any different at all from what any aspiring destructive cult leader does.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2010 07:16AM by Stoic.

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James Arthur Ray, was found in his cabin having a meal
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: January 15, 2010 01:06PM

James Arthur Ray also twittered a message while eating a meal around the precise time Colleen Conaway died during his seminar. Right after that message on July 25, 2009, there is no mention of anything about her death, and its been shown he knew everything about it.

He knew Colleen had died, and the others had died, and that seems to give him an appetite. The man clearly is a psychopath.
And this is the same person that to this day, some of his cronies and colleagues try to portray as having a good "intent".
The man is a psychopath, out to exploit people to the maximum degree possible, at all costs, including severe injuries physically, financially, psychologically, and even to their deaths. You have to be a psychopath to have multiple people perish under your command and on your watch, and to behave has he has behaved, and to have said the things he's said.
Even after the multiple deaths he tried to continue on doing more dangerous seminars like nothing had happened, until he was stopped by media pressure.

[saltydroid.info]
JamesARay Twitter
[twitter.com]
QUOTE:[twitter.com] "Eating lunch w/my dream while CAW participants are having a life changing experience" 2:04 PM Jul 25th, 2009 from txt


Quote
Stoic
Links to the documents released on Tuesday, interviews by officers at the scene and in the hospital.
Far from helping out with the injured and dying, Ray was found in his cabin having a meal while the emergency services worked on the injured and did not want to interrupt his meal to answer questions!

narrative 1

part 2

part 3



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2010 01:13PM by The Anticult.

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James Arthur Ray - Dave Lakhani and the road to sociopathy
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: January 15, 2010 01:45PM

Well, not that Dave Lakhani needs a defense, as frankly criticism of his techniques would help his marketing to the target market that wants to learn to persuade and manipulate to the maximum degree possible, including "mind control" and creating a "cult following"...

But at least he's put a definition like the one below in writing. Others have called what he is talking about covert persuasion, unconscious influence, mind-control, brainwashing, and many other terms.

So at least a good starting point is to define what it is, and exactly how it works.

Far worse than this, are those who are using these techniques, and DENY that such things exist. Many of those people have been exposed in these threads, like Byron Katie, Werner Erhard, and countless others. People like Stever Robbins who know all the same techniques as Lakhani try to pretend and deny there is any such thing as unconscious influence. They do this to try and dupe their audience, to misdirect their attention away from critical analysis.

The next level are the people who say there is such a thing, but there is an "ethical" way to use it. That is basically a cover story they use to try to be politically correct.
In fact, "ethics" to them means, is it technically LEGAL? If its legal and they can't go to jail for it, they will do it. They will take it right up to the edge of the limits of the law, and push the limits of the FTC and other regulations in commerce and contracts. That is what they mean by "ethics" in the real world.

Then you have the others who will use it to go beyond the bounds of legality, and will use to to run amok. Those are the LGAT seminar, and sect and cult leaders, where people are getting terribly exploited, injured, and even killed, sometimes by "accident".
These are the LGAT seminars where there is psychosis and people die from suicide on a regular basis, and they just don't care. All they care about is making the money.


So the only Brownie Point for Dave Lakhani so far, is for outlining how some of the invisible persuasion strategies operate.
Of course, he wins demerit points for the dubious "ethics" smokescreen, the misdirection from the most powerful techniques, the upselling to covert exclusive insider knowledge, and all the other tactics he's running.
But there is no one teaching persuasion, who isn't also running their own embedded persuasion inside of what they are teaching. They all do it, and some are much worse than others.
Many of the persuasion teachers, are outright blatant liars, who lie and pretend they can teach people the secrets of "mind control" simply to exploit people who are hungry for perverse power over people.

And they also try to lure people in and persuade them that advanced persuasion is "ethical".
Even Dave Lakhani says it in his book, those who are persuaders are DIFFERENT than regular people. That seems to be true. Those who really do this stuff for a living, don't have any qualms about using it in any way they can think of to make money and get what they want from others. It never crosses their minds.
They don't lose any sleep over taking what they want, using persuasion and manipulation techniques. Its most likely that those who do this, see others simply as "objects" and pawns in the power-game of life. Its on a continuum towards sociopathy.





Quote
Stoic
'Subliminal persuasion occurs when you are able to successfully implant a message in the mind of a person or group of people whom you target for change without their conscious evaluation of the change, and encourage them to spread the idea organically to their associates.' --Dave Lakhani


without their conscious evaluation of the change, --which means without their consent, which means that Mr Lakhani is another one playing God, another one deciding what is best for another human being, another one putting his own agenda before the interests and well-being of his 'targets for change.'

I don't see this as any different at all from what any aspiring destructive cult leader does.

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