The Anti Cult and Buffman -
I'll be addressing your concerns in more detail shortly as I have time. As I sure you suspect, I tend to disagree with most of your observations, they are off base and filtered through what frankly appears to be some paranoia. Not everyone is out to get you or manipulate you. Some people actually do have others best interests in mind.
It appears that you have a strong aversion to sales and marketing and it appears that what you most object to is my use of marketing language. I'm good with that.
Let me as you this, what is your intent in attempting to expose anyone or any technique here? Are you doing it to try and save people from something or to make yourselves seem smart? Because see, there is some intent behind what you are doing and you are employing many of the same techniques you accuse me of employing to some end. For example, you draw incorrect conclusions and rather than open them for debate present them as factual, which they are not. You quote my book out of context to support your theories, no surprising or even original but effective if you want to cause people with whom you have credibility to believe. Using your own metaphor, when you pick up one end of the stick you pick up the other. You are really no different than me except maybe you are in a different line of business. You do present yourself as holier than thou which I think I've never really done. I've admitted that I've used persuasion techniques inappropriately after I left the cult I was raised in, I used the tools the way I'd been trained. But as I studied and grew, I changed.
You also suggest that people can't change. Then using your own logic, you are no different now than the group you came out of.
In fact, my publisher did not want to publish the book I wanted to write when I wrote Subliminal Persuasion, I wanted to do a much more thorough expose on how LGATs influence people. But, they don't feel those books sell and frankly, they are right, there is a small group of people who want that material. And yet, it was those people who buy Subliminal Persuasion in great numbers and get real value from it. That book gets more calls than any other of my books from people who ask for help getting out of LGATs, Cults and other destructive groups. Calls which I always refer to the proper organizations to help them.
I'd like to ask both of you to be as transparent as I am, identify yourselves and your background. Show my your research, your books, your scholarly works other than posts that you put up here many of which are not well reasoned at best. They are full of opinions and off base observations presented as fact (Would you consider that manipulative?)
So, who are you, what have you written that has been published by a reputable firm, where and who have you studied with that make you an expert?
You can stand on your soapbox here and shout to the masses that I'm bad it doesn't make it true. I know what I do for people who've been mislead, bamboozled, and hurt, what do you do for others, other than pontificate in this forum?
I'm going to be having a call with Rick Ross as well because I'm not sure that I want to continue to support a group that lets such unfiltered, slanderous behavior go unchecked. I don't think he set this forum up to be a bully pulpit for people make inaccurate observations Not that it really matters to me what you say but what matters is that people who come here for help when they need it most end up reading opinions from people whose only claim to actual knowledge or education is 2900 posts.
Did I teach things in Renegades of Persuasion that my publisher didn't want to publish? Yep. Do I use persuasive marketing and sales tactics to sell my products and services? Yep. And you know what? There is nothing wrong with that. You keep referring to a quote form my book about subliminal messaging without referring to my definition of subliminal messaging. If either of you have a spouse or significant other it was not only the things that you did overtly that caused them to love you, it was also the little things you did that slipped in under the radar, subliminal messaging that caused them to change. If you do something knowing that a simple gesture or word will cause their emotion to shift you've used subliminal persuasion. But you likely won't categorize what you do as manipulative, but it is, ANY attempt to change someone's mind is manipulative if you want to be specific and have a semantics argument.
The bottom line to this is that you want all persuasion to be bad, you want all marketing to be bad and it just isn't. I'm the first to admit that there is a thin line between persuasion and manipulation because the techniques are often the same from a psychological perspective. So, after researching, studying, applying for more than 27 years now, the best assessment I could make was that it comes down to intent. Imagine for a moment that based on my experience, years of research, deep study and more that I really do believe that intent is the single differentiating factor (which I do). It may not fit your worldview but it doesn't make me wrong.
Why don't we debate this openly in a format where everyone can listen and make their own decisions? You appear to be skilled enough that even if I were going to try and manipulate you that you'd be able to catch me and point it out as we go. If I'm as devious and manipulative as you think, you'll be able to expose me. But if I'm not, you may find that I'm one of your strongest allies in outing people like James Ray who do things that cause people harm.
What do you say? Shall we do it then we can post the link to the recording here and everyone can hear it. The two of you should be able to easily take me or anyone else on in that kind of debate.
And thanks for pointing out that I'd never suggest that there are no advanced, high level persuasion techniques, I expose them every day. We are all impacted by them from political messages to church doctrine. They are all designed to get some kind of outcome. So, if that is true, and it is, then what do you suggest is the difference between techniques used to persuade and those used to manipulate?
Ok, in my next post, I'll be addressing your points one by one. Frankly, I don't care if you change your opinion or not but if you won't take the debate to a real time conversation then I'll continue to talk to you here.
So, identify yourself. Demonstrate the basis for your opinion. Explain why you won't or when you will have a public debate on this issue. Trust me, you have a lot less to fear from me than you imagine. You'd know that if you carefully listened to any of my interviews about LGATS, and in case you haven't, you should listen to this one that I just did on "How To Protect Yourself From Coercive Groups and Leaders." [exploringthemind.com
I look forward to a reasoned debate with you. I believe you are well intentioned and also incorrect.