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Re: Desteni, Winged, Eagle, Sunette, Durban, Christian
Posted by: Noble9 ()
Date: June 01, 2010 04:33AM

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Sandman
He may also be concerned that his personal appearance as a middle-aged man might be off-putting for potential young Desteni recruits.

This is another thing that creeps me out about Bernard Poolman, his age-inappropriate relationships. He's around 50 years old, yet he hangs around with 20- and 30-somethings and interrogates them about their sex lives. That alone should be a major red flag to anyone observing this group. How are people letting their kids go to this brainwashing cult farm?

Thanks for the extra info, Sandman. I am not too surprised to hear that he served as a police officer. Bernard Poolman seems to have that domineering, over-compensating personality type that the worst cops have. He also looks like he is exceptionally short -- "Napoleon complex" perhaps?

I wonder if the head-shaving campaign that he began a few months ago is related to the fact that he, himself, is bald. This has produced some of the most self-indulgent Desteni videos of late. Spending 10 minutes in front of the camera, making faces, and trying to rationalize why you shaved your head is the height of conceit. If these kids honestly want to help the world there are better avenues than making ego-gratifying videos.

The more I learn about Desteni, the more it becomes apparent that these kids are the victims of a savvy, manipulative older man with less-than-pure intentions.

Noble9

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Re: Desteni
Posted by: Sandman ()
Date: June 02, 2010 10:19AM

This is hilarious . . .

Free Market Capitalism Creates Overpopulation
[www.youtube.com]

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Re: Desteni
Posted by: ThomDarc ()
Date: June 02, 2010 12:39PM

Bernard Poolman invents yet more jargon for his followers to use.

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Structural Resonance Alignment

The 8 Levels of Self

By Bernard Poolman

In Structural Resonance Alignment we will be Identifying the ‘Levels of Self’ Levels of Self: These are ‘Aspects of Self’ that act as Coping Mechanisms within our Daily Lives. We will be identifying which Level of Self plays a role within our daily Patterns. These are the 8 basic steps a person goes through in their process and It is through these ‘Levels of Self’ that we tacitly give Permission to re-Conditioning – which are the tacit ‘permissions’ that exist behind everything we do. Thus by identifying the Levels of Self and removing the Permissions – we are Establishing a Clear starting point for ourselves before we start any SRA Lesson/Technique. Through this identification technique we will also Identify the primary ‘temptation’ one gives into on any particular Level of Self.

The 8 levels of Self:

(1) The Self-Deceiver
Self-Deceivers are those that design deliberately, systems within which they have Complete Control and Benefit and where they trap people through the written word, legal word, into these systems and make sure that they believe it unquestionably, so that they remain in control of the System. So the Elite, Illuminati and so on, falls in the level of the Self-Deceiver - also those that write the religious books and get followers from that perspective, all within the realm of Self-Deceivers. They are presenting Humanity as an existent force that is “faulty,” and has no Opportunity or Means to Ever be anything more than “Completely Fucked.”
From there you move from Self-Deceiver to Self-Loser.

(2) The Self-Loser
What is a Self-Loser? A Self-Loser is one that has gone to the Pinnacle of their Self-Deception – realized that they were just harming others in what they were doing, and then they “Give up” everything and they virtually become a beggar, and they collapse in the system completely. They then become a “Constant Loser,” they refuse to participate in anything, they withdraw from society, and they would at that stage, see themselves as incapable of ever “amounting to anything,” and simplistically either eventually moving on to the next stage or becoming completely demented and obviously die and have to do the next cycle. The third step is the self illusionist.

(3) Self-Illusionist.
The Self-Illusioner is somebody that unquestioningly participates in the system according to what they’ve been taught by their parents. So if the parents was a Christian, they’re a Christian. They read their Bible. They do All the things that are required of them according to their education to be a “Good Person” in the System. They are not asking any questions. They accept the system and the world the way it is and they accept the position and the “where they are” in the world as it is, and they have no qualms with it, they are very happy with it, they work within the System. They’re completely Self-Illusioners. That means, they cannot even perceive of the illusion at all. The next ones are the self delusioners

(4) Self-Delusioners.
These ones are actively participating in talking themselves into delusion. They use things like meditation, mantras, prayers, energy work and so on, where they Create their Own Delusion by Actively Participating in methods of creating delusion, and then they promote their illusion as their experience as if it was real. There you have your Charismatic Ones, your Light Workers, your Islamic –basically all those that are working towards a “Higher Position” away from the “Lower Position,” and thus creating a Greater Gap in the separation, and they are doing it deliberately and they call it their own “self-betterment.” They do not work for Perfection. They are making themselves “better.” “Better” than others. They do not Realize the Interconnectiveness of all things and how separation would influence everything through Polarity – and therefore, go to the Extreme point, because in that they are – it’s called in Afrikaans, “Self-heerlekken,” they are “self-realized” glorifying themselves. So your Light Workers or those that are moving towards that perspective of a “Greater Light” or “Ascension” and so on, that is a point they called Self-glorification, where you are Glorifying
Yourself as God, when you are not that In Fact. You are not In Fact as That Perfection, you’re In Fact not living it, you’re not In Fact That Divinity but you Claim That Divinity – that is Self-Glorification. That is Great Deception. Then... from there you move on to the point of the self-justifiers

(5) Self-Justifiers.
The Self-Justifier has to a degree have realized that there are certain things that is “Not Okay” in Reality. But they will justify their point of view because they’ll utilize reason, logic and so on, from the perspective of n Free Will and the fact that they have a Right to it because of all their previous experiences already they have built this idea about themselves and therefore they will justify their positions, and instead of building Groups of Strength that can bring a difference or correction in this world, they will specifically Justify how they will Divide groups. They will Justify why only Their View Is Right when their Point of View when Practically Applied will not be Best For All. But they will be Unwilling to embrace what is Best For All because they will Feel that they will Lose their Identity, because they don’t have enough Self-Value as who They Are. They require Some Form of Separation to have Identity, and that is obviously their Downfall and they will have Justifiable Reasons Why their Fear or Point of Separation is Valid according to them, and then go as far as saying, “I don’t care what You think about it, but this is Right for Me – and I will walk This, and I will give you the Same Right
to Do This; not realizing in that you are separating everyone and in fact embracing the Very System from the Deceivers and the Losers and all the previous stages that are inherent in who you are. From the Self-Justifiers, you then get at last to a point where a sense of forgiveness, of humbleness and a sense of Oneness is Realized. Understand that the Oneness within the Self-Justifier never embraces equality. The Oneness is the Oneness of the Self-Delusion. The Self-Delusioner move to the Self-Justifier where they claim the Oneness is a form of Uniqueness, as a form of Free Will. But that is delusional. The Self-Delusioners will be using things like the Law of Attraction, they will use Trancing, not realizing that whenever you Trance, You Are Possessed! I mean, that is what a Trance mean! Something takes you Over of an Energetic Nature and you have Created It Yourself – therefore, you have created a Trance. From the Justifier, you move to the self realizer.

(6) Self-Realizers.
A Self-Realizer is somebody that is starting to realize that there is a Problem and that they have to do Self-Correction. And they will be using Self-Forgiveness and Self-Honesty extensively from the perspective of Walking Backwards In Their Life and reassessing existence and their lives by doing everything in reverse, and thus doing correction. They are not yet at the stage where they will start looking at Perfecting Themselves, they are still just Correcting Themselves. Therefore they are Still Building Self-Trust, Self-Trust is not yet existent, but they realize it’s gonna be a Process and they are walk that process. The Self-Realizers is the ones that will Walk the process of the 7 Year Process – that’s your 7 Year Process. From the Self-Realizers you go to the

(7) Self-Perfecters.
The Self-Perfecters have reached the Point of Nothing. They have reached the Point from the Perspective of Being Here As Breath and now they are starting to Direct Themselves in their practical, active Participation in this world with Very Clear Principles which they Stand By, No Matter What. That stage, the Self-Perfecters you’re now starting to Apply Equality within Self-Perfection in your Daily Life and you are now starting to understand Your Role you play within Creation and how it Plays Out and how Within Limitation can Be Perfect within and as Breath. Once you’ve got that Clearly, because you have to Labor to do it, you have to Program to do it, you
have to Become it. You’re still in Process, the level of the Self-Perfectors. Once that is Done, you come to the final point existent in this Reality, which is

(8) Self-Here.
Then you’re just Here and you are able to Move Between All of the Dimensions that is existent Without Any
Effort.

Bernie here occupies position number one.

[www.box.net]

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Re: Desteni
Posted by: ThomDarc ()
Date: June 03, 2010 02:34AM

I had a recent exchange with a member of Desteni concerning my thoughts on how he was being deceived. I quoted the Mein Kampf qoute left by TheAnitCult to him. His repsonse is as follows:

Quote

the mein kampt quote is one of my favorites actually. i understand where your concerns are coming from. i myself have had them. yet again, i am not in this because i think desteni is telling me the truth. i a member because i am applying the process on my own and i am sharing and discussing my findings as well as enjoying what others are sharing.

desteni cannot deceive me. it is only ever i that can deceive myself if i do not make sure that what i am "believing" is something i can verify consistently on my own and cross reference, and i am satisfied in this regard as far as my participation goes. if i am deceived, it is my fault for placing trust outside of myself.

I also brought up how Desteni uses tags on youtube in a dishonest fashion and that the History of Mankind series is a ploy to attract attention. His response again:

Quote

it is not "honest" if you are talking about morals or what is "fair". but honesty is not always about morality or fairness. honesty is also about doing what is best for all even if people will disagree with you. we realize that people react to and as systems and programming. this occurs all the time without people being aware of it, and likely this will not stop. so we use these systems specifically with the starting point of getting the message out.

people may be drawn to the uniqueness of the desteni "history of mankind", but the actual message is NOT easy to swallow. more people turn away from desteni than stay on board and actually participate. it is a hard "sell" for people to consider that everything they have ever done in their lives was "pre-programmed" and not valid and that the solution requires personal effort and dedication to self honesty in every single breath. i myself was on the verge of passing these people off as "bunk" before i actually participated.

i will not try to convince you otherwise, but i will do not agree that the ONLY purpose of the history of man series was to gather attention and followers. desteni is genuine about their presentation of the history of man material and will stand by it. i will say that it does get people's attention and draws people in.

Thus the means are justified by the ends. And this was part of his response to my critique of the History of Mankind series:

Quote

according to desteni, the dimensional existence operates on "quantum time" which does not translate into the linear progression we consider "time" to be and the universe was existing as a non-physical reality- wherein the current laws of physics do not apply.

i understand that this is a convenient explanation, but it is nonetheless what desteni stands by in the material so for discussion i will posit that the history of man series cannot accurately be "made sense of" with our current model and understanding of the physical universe. this in itself does not constitute a "lie" because it is not said that this occurred within our known model of the universe. one could argue this did not happen or the story is made up, but desteni does not "lie" when they mention specifically this occured in quantum time and non-physical reality and makes no claim that it is verifiable by standard measures.

we can go point by point and discuss your arguments (which are very well laid out and do make sense using the currently accepted scientific model of the physical universe) but i do not see the sense in that. as related in the history of man series and history of the universe series, much of the physical reality as we know it today did not really manifest until the incident of earth becoming magnetically active and "pulling" or "compounding" reality into physical form.

what makes sense today, in our current physical universe, did not make sense in the history provided by desteni. in no way am i making a determination here- one way or another i do not find it relevant....

....again, i am not trying to convince you of anything or attempting to debate. i have no stake on this issue, but wanted to share my perspective on some of the points you mention in your article, which appears to me to be attempting to expose a story taking place in quantum time and non physical existences by using linear time, human mythology, and current scientific models based on a physical universe. i agree that it does not make sense in modern terms but i disagree with the method from which you came to your conclusion.

the crux here seems to be that "jack is lying" according to your research, but your research does not allow for the proper context from which desteni productions is explaining.

It is in this way that many members of Desteni allow and excuse the deception within Desteni. Trust and belief are de-externalized while having the same effect. What is validated in the mind is subjective while allowing no external reference to determine what is true. While this Desteni member seems to be quite sincere, he is only making excuses in the end for why he should continue to associate with Desteni and continue the Process.

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Desteni, beliefs, Daryll Thomas, Rapport, Bernard Poolman
Posted by: Sandman ()
Date: June 04, 2010 06:24AM

There are three articles on Desteni published at [www.rapport.co.za]é-plaas-word-met-demone-gepraat-20091121

[www.rapport.co.za] and

[www.rapport.co.za]

Reading these via a Google English translation, they give the impression that Desteni is a rather meek and mild esoteric group focussed on the virtues of forgiveness and honesty, as well as helping people overcome their "demons"; as though they were some sort of contemporary monastic sect with some odd beliefs but their hearts in the right place.

The translation of the first one states,

'"You can not take pictures of me," said Mr. Bernard Poolman. "About a year or two I will show my face."'

And "if Poolman speak, the rest still".

Now to the average person in the street Desteni would be seen as a cult. It doesn't take special knowledge or experience to see that. All the signs are there: weird beliefs, ranting leader, shaved heads, communal living, channeling, glazed looks, courses in pseudoscience, sloganeering, recruitment drive etc etc

Those who insist on pretending that Desteni is "cool" and "supporting" may imagine that Poolman's demented rants are meaningful and reliable because he speaks with an air of conviction. It's a tone of voice affected in order to persuade and manipulate, to get people to collude with his fantasy; and he knows what he's doing -- seeking notoriety for its own sake.

Let's just suppose someone was willing to turn a blind eye to all that in order to try to understand the message. They'd be confronted with the problem of trying to figure out what the hell it's supposed to mean. It tends towards the ridiculous. A few ideas on the surface have some logic to them, but are overshadowed by incongruous, obtuse abstractions, outright fictions, meaningless jargon and hypotheses that are so false, fanciful or unrealistic they are impossible to take seriously.

Daryll Thomas asks readers of the Desteni material to "suspend beliefs". (See: Metaphysics is Deception - Darryl Video Response to BlissWeaver -- [desteni.co.za]) This could be like asking for suspension of disbelief. With the suspension of disbelief Desteni communications may take on a certain fake reality, like reading fiction. When Daryll says "suspend beliefs" it implies that he believes Desteni should be regarded as believable even though it is anything but. The real reason why you can't have "beliefs" in Desteni then is because none of it is actually true or realistic.

That is also why any critical view on Desteni is seen by the followers as inherently wrong or irrelevant. In order to understand or appreciate the "common sense" of Desteni a person has to imagine and behave as though it is authentic and meaningful even though it doesn't make any sense, common or otherwise. Criticism of suspension of disbelief is pointless, we already know the thing's not true, you'd just be spoiling the illusion.

So, just as might happen watching a drama or reading fiction a person could become immersed in the fantasy and collude with it for a while. But then a rational discussion about a drama or work of fiction is impossible without admitting the fakery behind it, which is why all any Desteni devotees can do is repeat slogans because they allow themselves to remain trapped in the suspension of disbelief. There's no moral or rational integrity in their argument to begin with. They are steeped in the realms of emotive fantastical nonsense while trying to promote a practical way of transcending human limitations which is defined according to irrational notions (such as the "Soul Construct" has been dismantled, Bernard cleaned up "Heaven"). It's futile.

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Re: Desteni
Posted by: dsm ()
Date: June 04, 2010 08:04AM

I almost wanted to start a new thread because this one is so big and I am a late-comer to it, but I did read a lot of the beginning pages where Destenites show up to explain their beliefs along with Sandman and Anticult and other criticisms, then I skipped ahead.

I noticed a few things that I have seen in some other New-Agey cults elsewhere that are involved with manipulating critical thinking in the cult's targets, but to discuss them would cause me to veer into theology which is not the focus of Ross's forum.

However, I noticed that every time the critics pushed the destenites on details, a very common reaction was for the destenites to appeal to the horrors of rape and why we do nothing about it, thus somehow proving we are all in need of Desteny's answers, which remain off-scene. I have not seen any Desteny policy that would eradicate rape or some of the other abuses that Desteny claims to be so upset about.

THEN: TAAA-DAAA!!!! Mr. Poolman's ANSWER is to make rape be OK, so that then it is not a crime!

Here it is, in his own words, in his own video-message:

[www.youtube.com]

(1:27)"Look at all our laws that exist in this world is to protect us from each other. I mean is the criminal not one of us? ....taxes & equality... "...have a moral base for not paying tax, Man will make it a crime and send you to jail and you're a criminal for supporting life. And that is not questionable. [... more about corelation....] we become what we allow: criminals because we are creating crimes..."

Now look at that: first Poolman confuses people about taxes by refusing to acknowledge that a lot of the stuff taxes support are life-assisting activities (eg: food stamps? housing?) and he emphatically repeats "not questionable" so that no one will criticize either him or the topic, not even in his favor. The point is not to gain favor, but to shut down "questioning"

The NEXT part is where we are "criminals creating crimes" and you MIGHT think he is using a little broken English to mean "commiting crimes" BUT WAIT! There's MORE!

(2:54) "you don't have to....commit the crime to be the criminal. You could be the criminal by creating the crime, by actually writing the law and accepting the law that creates criminals: Equal and One."

Now look at that. first the faceless Poolman shuts down critical thought in his young listeners and next he introduces the idea that the law is more criminal than an action. He closes with a solid punch of a cult-mantra from Desteni's ammo-box: "Equal and One"

There is a lot of implanting going on here, a strong implant of blame-the-witness if anyone should accuse anyone else in that group of a crime such as rape or any of the other horrors desteny uses in its propaganda. The speaker is faceless. He has a fatherly tone. He is appealing to the natural rebellion of youth, and exploiting the naivete of today's poorly educated youth (who sadly may lack the understanding of civics and taxes that automatically trump Poolman's Life/Tax dillemma)

This is an extremely dangerous cult. I could easily relate it to some others that are using the same kinds of anarchist-nihilist stuff to groom terrorists but I would be pulling it off-topic.

I do believe that someone needs to start doing a serious investigation of the money trails on this cult because of what looks to my mind like connections to recruiting young prostitutes and willing hands for all kinds of nefarious stuff.

JUST MY OPINION, CAMERON. So sue me, already. *rolleyes*

(editted to fix font colors)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2010 08:15AM by dsm.

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Re: Desteni
Posted by: Sandman ()
Date: June 04, 2010 09:00AM

Quote
dsm
However, I noticed that every time the critics pushed the destenites on details, a very common reaction was for the destenites to appeal to the horrors of rape and why we do nothing about it, thus somehow proving we are all in need of Desteny's answers, which remain off-scene. I have not seen any Desteny policy that would eradicate rape or some of the other abuses that Desteny claims to be so upset about.

THEN: TAAA-DAAA!!!! Mr. Poolman's ANSWER is to make rape be OK, so that then it is not a crime!

Yes, that would be a logical conclusion based on the argument in that video, but as I was saying, the problem is that all Poolman's arguments are so incoherent and full of contradictions that they are more or less pointless in any rational sense, they only exist to stir people up.

Those who are participating in the Desteni process continually use the same strategy in their arguments: when someone criticizes Desteni they tell them their opinions are in tacit support of all the crime, starvation and corruption in the world. They can't address the specifics of a given critical point of view due to the fact that their point of view is almost entirely irrational, not least because Bernard Poolman can't string a sentence together without veering off into double-talk and claptrap that is only ever marginally redeemed by mere platitudes.

Quote
dsm
This is an extremely dangerous cult. I could easily relate it to some others that are using the same kinds of anarchist-nihilist stuff to groom terrorists but I would be pulling it off-topic.

That sounds interesting, not sure it'd be too much off-topic ...?

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Re: Desteni
Posted by: dsm ()
Date: June 04, 2010 09:20AM

I'm Catholic, of the traditional sort, Sandman, and we tend to be sensitive to the way certain twists of Jesus' teachings characterize what we Catholics refer to as "heresies"... so it could get off topic because heresy is not particularly relevant to anyone outside our Catholic culture...

except for the fact that Catholicism shares the unhappy distinction of being one of the religions that has been hospitable to terrorism in recent history (IRA, etc) and also among traditionals there is a fringe group of anti-semites... so I am sensitive to that stuff and we do see people who want to promote that stuff showing up in traditional forums from time to time., and they do try to recruit young people.

I noticed that Desteny is promoting a twisted version of some peculiarly Catholic ideas about masturbation as sin. I have never encountered any other Christian denomination that has the Catholic idea about masturbation, and so that caught my eye. There is also a reference to Jesus in the first few pages related to helping demons, and that caught my eye because of the very esoteric theological points about whether Jesus descended into Hell to save damned souls or not.

I have never seen these particular points argued in non-Catholic circles. I don't want to expose the admittedly bizarre aspects of my religion to mockery, but I did notice these things and I do suspect that Desteny may be a filtering cult because of the way politics and the Catholic church have been entangled with some of these questions lately.

It is a sad but true fact that of all the world religions, the Catholic church is often a haven for money launderers and that is partly because this church is as old as our European monetary system and pre-exists many of today's regulations. Thus, any cult that is laundering money in a seirous way along with having terrorist political ambitions is likely to cultivate some kind of Catholic entanglement.

I don't know if those hints of peculiarly Catholic ideas indicate that Poolman is coming from that direction in his or his colleagues' past or if he is going in that direction with an eye to recruiting Catholic connections. Probably they indicate nothing and it is just a slow night for my imagination. **shrug**

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Desteni, Bernard Poolman is just trying to screw with people's minds
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: June 04, 2010 10:39AM

Having seen countless sects like Desteni, its very obvious that Bernard Poolman is simply using one of the most basic techniques in creating a sect.

Inducing Confusion.

One of the primary techniques, is to literally just screw with people's minds and their belief systems, to CONFUSE them.
The sect leader creates a FOG of confusion around people's minds, and challenges all of their beliefs.
If a person buys into this, their life becomes very unstable.
Technically, they call that a Mindfuck, there is no doubt that is what Bernard Poolman would call it in private.

Then what?
Then the followers are supposed to follow their strongman Arian Leader into the light.

So Bernie Poolman, is using the same old grab-bag of tricks, used by countless other Gurus and other conmen.
Confuse confuse confuse.
He then works to literally RE-PROGRAM people's belief systems, and language patterns in his own image.

The only good thing about Bernard Poolman and Desteni, is that Bernard Poolman is very very crude in his techniques, and does them very obviously, and make many mistakes and obvious errors.
But even a clumsy and vulgar propagandist like Bernie Poolman, still seems to be able to attract some followers.

Keep working to show the endless bullshit coming from the poison-pen of Bernard Poolman and Desteni, so the younger members they are targeting can see what is really going on.


Its best to keep all of the Desteni comments in this one thread, as its easier to reference.
Those tempted to be involved with Desteni, can read the entire thread, and see what is really going on.

Desteni is the Big Lie, a scam, a confidence trick.

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desteni bernard poolman cult scam sunette spies fraud
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: June 04, 2010 10:47AM

Desteni are very worried about this thread, which is exposing the precise techniques of Desteni and Bernard Poolman.

Search for these keywords below, and this thread is top of the list or top 5.
This is the thread to completely expose Desteni for what it really is.

desteni cult
desteni bernard poolman
desteni scam
desteni sunette spies


Any former Desteni members, consider contributing to the thread, it can help others, with Desteni and other sects, groups and cults like it.

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