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newagesurvivor
Were you aware when you wrote that piece that it might upset me? Were you aware of what you were doing? Of course you weren’t, since you didn’t mean “to add insult to injury”. But do you see the new age pattern here, in your articulations?

No, I wasn't. And that's why I inadvertently 'came' to a wrong 'conclusion'. I am truly sorry.

This is the primary reason I came onto this website [forum.culteducation.com]. This further elaborates a bit more why I went down all these wrong avenues. [forum.culteducation.com].

Given that background (& even prior to making my first 'landing' on American soil – the (adoptive) home base was an excellent preparatory "field work" for what was to follow) - I but kept blaming myself. For everything that had happened.

And I was merciless on myself. Absolutely merciless.

No weaknesses allowed. Failure is a very subjective thing.

One of the most efficient ways to keep that feeling of 'not good enough' in check is to be hard on oneself. As hard as possible. No fluffy tails for me, thank you.

As hard as nails, please & the hammer to go with it. So I pushed myself beyond my own capacity until I collapsed. Once, twice, a.s.o., a.s.f.

Cyclical energy being what it is, the way one treats oneself, one treats others no matter where they are. As I have said previously, I am not as yet where I would like to be but I am trying my best.

That I'm still here, is, in & of itself a miracle of sorts.

Maybe, it is what was/is still lingering after years of having spent too much time with the wrong kind of people. I am not trying to make excuses, nor am I in anyway asking for pity (no thank you very much, I'll give that a pass…I'd much rather have genuine understanding & compassion, which of course, is a bit much to ask), I am merely but in the process of disentangling myself from the ropes that kept me bound & all too helpless & abused individual for much too long.

I am still working on shedding more off as I go along & you unjustly got some of that. I hope, you have found the right treatment for your condition & that your marriage has survived this & brought you closer as a couple.

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In my country farting at a society party would either be totally ignored (everybody pretending politely that nothing happened) or joked about (fart is fun! mentality).

I can only intuit where you are based, but I know a few countries that are a lot more laidback when it comes to 'human bodily functions' than the US...

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So.. Is it very common in the United States to totally exclude someone who farts? S/he farted so we'll just throw her/him out of the party! And while we're doing the throwing out we'll label her/him 'dark', 'negative', 'robot', 'soulless', or any other name suitable for us to be used for our enemy.

Yes, they probably would attach bad 'spirits' to the farts, like: "uuuuhhhh...!"

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That is what they do in practice in very many new age circles to those who disagree, ask questions, or show any sign of 'not belonging here' (even if that sign is solely in the head of the out-throwers).

Sheep mentality. It's the best way to keep people asleep, so the shysters can do as they please...

And, it goes right across the board; from new age BS merchants to religious &/or ecological fanaticism, financial as well as political - the circus around Obama was a bit hard to swallow - all that was missing during his 'rallies' was the hysterical women throwing their knickers at him before fainting...

And now it's "back to 'business as usual'". A good brainwash by a major NLP programmed robot-like "he-man" disguising as a 'political know-it-all' certainly helps considerably to make things easier.

He sounds like a new ager himself with his constant 'change' mantra... I don't trust him & I think he's major, major con-artist. This is gonna be one rude wake-up. The American people have been had once again.

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Back to farting. In my country it would be quite preposterous to throw anyone out of the party because of such minor and human behavior. It is generally acknowledged that every human being farts, it is just one of those things common to the human race.

It is interesting to observe expatriats trying to 'settle in' on the old continent... Often, at the beginning, they find some of their 'sensitivities' being turned upside down. Farting would be such an example. Or being a lot more open about showing oneself naked without freaking out & making a big deal about it or it turning into some weird sexual 'thing'.

There are still a lot puritans which is why there is a dichotomy between being either completely prude or completely oversexualised, which leads to some serious problems on more than one level...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2008 01:41AM by xythos.

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corboy
And, just because one can only afford access to scientific medicine if one happens to be in the right social class in a technically advanced country does not mean science itself is at fault.

I never said science itself is at fault.

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It means society has a problem that needs to be fixed.

That we have to think consciously about power, social structures and that doing that is part of spirituality.

Thank you for taking the words out of my mouth. I didn't want to put it as such because I was actually worried it would be considered as flaming, which is why I held back. The other reason would've been that I didn't want to go there because I know myself well enough to realise once I get going, I sometimes can't "get off" in time (as the example with NAS so aptly has shown).

I do feel that one of the reasons so many charlatans can get away with 'murder inc.' in the US is one, the terrible health care system, & two, the 'market ideology' that "the end justifies the means" - or, more plainly put; "anything goes" mentality at the cost of those needing the help & assistance...which is a molotov cocktail in the hands of those 'in power'...

The clients then are but "dollars walking into my practice":

"Yes, please sit down. Now, what can I 'do' for you?"

Translation:

"How can I best rip you off at my benefit, so you keep coming back for more of the same & make sure I can pay my bills or get that nice vacation/house/car, etc... Thank you very much & see you next week...! That'll make $120 (& up) please."

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Some Roman Catholics have attempted to do exactly this by coming up with Liberation Theology. There are valid arguments that too much of Liberation Theologyis permeated with out of date Marxist catagories, but at least Liberation Theology was developed from a context in which intellectual endeavor was considered compatible with spiritual practice.

Oh dear...please, please, do some research on Roman Catholicism's real agenda (i.e., the agenda behind the agenda... Even raising it within the context of "ethical code of morale" is pretty much...um...risky at best & seriously misleading at worst....

It's a maze all right...but their 'corporate body' (the "physical manifestation" of this being the Vatican in Rome) is to be approached with extreme caution... The 'Nazi history' is only a tiny, tiny part of the whole apparatus.... The Vatican is the "corporation" that 'spreads' the Roman Catholic doctrine to those who, much as you have mentioned in your V essay on Hinduism, would 'listen' to the "pope" rather than apply their critical analytical thinking while still maintaining a deeply Christian 'belief/faith'....

They are not one & the same...

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And...the ability to combine spiritulity with analytic thought will remain a rare capacity as long as arguements that analytic thought is incompatible with spiriutality remain commonplace and unexamined, and if it remains commonplace to teach people that they can only be spiritual after they've left their brains at the front door.

Indeed. I couldn't agree more, which is why, it might be worth your while to investigate the Roman Catholic doctrine in more depth... They are not who they 'proclaim' to be...

Very, very dangerous... Please use your god given abilities to find out more.... I am not sure to what degree these sources would hold up to your scrutiny, but I feel they have considerable weight...

[www.bibliotecapleyades.net]

'Pope' Benedict, BTW, is known in Europe as the Nazi pope (as a Nazi Hitler Youth that led him straight into the inner circle of Adolf himself...). My main spiritual influence used to refer to him as "Cardinal Rat-singer". This side of the pond he's simply known as "the Nazi Pope". There's a very dark energy emitting from this old fart (oops, farts everywhere!)

I'm not sure how good your Spanish is, but, althought this is initially in Spanish, I understand they received the copy of the video from the BBC.

[www.bibliotecapleyades.net]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2008 02:59AM by xythos.

Note: Italics, bold & underline are my emphasis

Before I continue let me quote the president that that Obama clown is constantly being referred to but is nowhere close in possessing any real authentic charisma (not fabricated by the media or his backpushers), substance, integrity or uprightness (he's a Kenyan born 'bought' lackey who is doing his masters' bidding, just like Bush Jr was):

John F. Kennedy's speech on April 27, 1961 on Secret Societies ruling the 'Great American Empire'

"For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence - on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations. Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed." (murdered on November 22, 1963).

Here's the full-length speech: [de.youtube.com]

Back to topic which the above speech ties into, even if it may not appear so at first.

Excerpt of "The Vatican & the Jesuits"

The Jesuit Order is an almost 500-year old covert operation, geo-political, male-only organization, structured as a secret military operation: demanding secret oaths and complete obedience to each direct superior, which is ultimately the Superior General (often nicknamed as the Black Pope, since he dresses in black and 'stands in the shadow' of the white Pope).

The Jesuit Order is, since 1814, in complete control of the - obscenely wealthy - Vatican institution (and its Catholic clergy hierarchy) and presently also controls various other organizations together with the Military Order of Malta, such as:

- the United Nations
- NATO
- European Commission
- Council on Foreign Relations
- various central banks (notably, the Bank of England, my remarks)
- secret services
- numerous societies and cults, such as Freemasonry ("The Brotherhood") and
- Opus Dei

The "Society of Jesus" - as they are officially known - was originally used by the Vatican to counter the various Reformation movements in Europe, to which the Vatican lost much of its religious and political power. Absolute-temporal-ruling power has always been the Vatican institution's primary objective.

The Vatican-Jesuit-Masonic crusades, up to our present time, show their criminal "full-spectrum dominance" doctrine is effectuated all over the world by:

- War, genocide and depopulation (recent examples: Canadian natives genocide between 1880-1984, the "Vatican managed Serbian genocide during WWII" with an ongoing US court case, and the ongoing Shia Muslim genocide in Iraq with over 1.217.892 deaths)

- Political subversions
- Economic slavery (in full swing as we speak!)
- Poor quality nutrition, healthcare and housing (as above)
- Government propaganda (via education, media, science, and religion)
- Suppression of sovereignty, consciousness and spirituality.

The Jesuit Order's agenda is far from exhausted here. And, I have to admit that I am somewhat surprised that the JO have not found their way onto this website as the organisation they have become known for:

A cult that was founded by Ignatius Loyola that, with time, evolved into the secret military service/arm of the Vatican.

The book "Vatican Assassins: 'Wounded in the house of my friends' - the diabolical history of the Society of Jesus including its 2nd 30 Years' War (1914-1945), and the assassination of President, J.F. Kennedy (1963)" by Eric Jon Phelps, I feel, might be quite an eye opener as to the 'benign' ideology of Roman Catholicism's outward 'cloak'.


"New age infiltration", 'global warming', Maurice Strong & Roman "Catholicism"

Although they might be seemingly unconnected, it might be worth investigating this a bit deeper, as well as further... As things go on the 'global stage' of illusion, de-lusion & the 'sales methodology' of new age gurus, NE BS merchants & scaring the world population into submission by all means possible (relgion, sects, cults, 'movements' of various 'orientation', belief systems, 'politics' - excuse me while I puke - ad infinitum), it is akin a "connect the dots" drawing picture.

Since 'new age mumbo jumbo' has been the title of the thread, it might be worth looking up Maurice Strong in more depth who can be given the credit for the term "new age". This is an excerpt from the "The Green Agenda" site that quite elaborately 'explains' how the "global warming, food shortage, worship of Gaia & the 'cult ideologies'" have infiltrated mainstream consciousness... [green-agenda.com]

QUOTE

The 'Spiritual' United Nations

As discussed in various articles on this website the 'green philosophy' that is rapidly permeating our society has been fostered since its inception by the Club of Rome and its affiliated organisations. Members of the Club of Rome triad include Al Gore, Javier Solana, Mikhail Gorbachev, David Rockefeller, Kofi Annan, Bill Clinton, Maurice Strong, Robert Muller, Bill Gates, Jimmy Carter and many other influential leaders. In their various reports the CoR clearly outline their ultimate goal to "transform humanity into a sustainable global interdependent society, based on respect and reverence for the Earth." To briefly recap their stated agenda in their own words:

"Man possesses, for a small moment in his history, the most powerful combination of knowledge, tools, and resources the world has ever known. He has all that is physically necessary to create a totally new form of human society - one that would be built to last for generations." – The Limits to Growth, a report by The Club of Rome

"Now is the time to draw up a master plan for organic sustainable growth and world development based on global allocation of all finite resources and a new global economic system. Ten or twenty years from today it will probably be too late." – Mankind at the Turning Point*, a report by The Club of Rome

*Sounds like Obama's "change" mantra, does it not?

"This proposed new global system is highly interdependent as, in the same manner that the human body assigns different tasks to its various organs, each region is assigned specialized and specific tasks, and is each is dependent on the others for their common survival… The resultant ideal sustainable population is hence more than 500 million but less than one billion." – Goals for Mankind, a report by The Club of Rome

"In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy then, is humanity itself. Democracy is not a panacea. It cannot organize everything and it is unaware of its own limits. These facts must be faced squarely. Sacrilegious though this may sound, democracy is no longer well suited for the tasks ahead." – The First Global Revolution, a report by The Club of Rome

Two of the most influential members of the Club of Rome, Maurice Strong and Robert Muller, have both worked for the United Nations since its inception and risen to the very top of its bureaucracy. Strong was the first Secretary-General of the UN Environment Programme, Chief Policy Advisor to Kofi Annan, Secretary General of the Rio Earth Summit, co-author of the Earth Charter and co-author of the Kyoto Protocol. Muller was the co-founder of UNESCO, the Director of the Budget overseeing all the UN's 32 programmes, the Founder and Chancellor UN University for Peace, and Assistant Secretary-General of the UN for 12 years. Detailed biographies can be read in my article on Gaia's Gurus.

During my research into these two men it has become clear that they have permeated the UN with their New Age philosophies based on reverence for the Earth as a divine sentient being. To accomplish this they have worked closely with various New Age organisations that are officially accredited to the United Nations:

The Lucis Trust

This organisation was originally founded in the 1920s by the renowned occultist Alice Bailey under the name of the Lucifer Publishing Company. The Trust is recognised by the United Nations as a Non-Governmental Organisation (NGO) and is represented at regular briefing sessions at the UN. The Lucis Trust is also a member of the UN Economic and Social Council. Interestingly Robert Muller served as the Secretary of this Council for many years. Until recently the Lucis Trust was located at 666 United Nations Plaza and lists its official sponsors as the UN, Greenpeace and Amnesty International.

Alice Bailey claimed to be able to channel a spirit guide called 'the Tibetan Master Djwhal Khul.' Robert Muller was a disciple of Bailey and in his World Core Curriculum it is explicitly stated that "the underlying philosophy upon which the Robert Muller School is based will be found in the teaching set forth in the books of Alice Bailey by the Tibetan teacher Djwhal Khul." Bailey taught that the 'World Spiritual Teacher' would soon appear and lead the world into the Age of Aquarius and it was the task of her disciples to "prepare the way for His imminent appearance".

"Today there is an increasing expectancy regarding the return of the "World Teacher", the Coming One who will return to lead humanity into a new age and into a heightened consciousness. In fact, some claim that the Christ has already reappeared in physical form and has been "sighted" in various parts of the world. proclaimed", either by Himself or by any other individual or group."

Bailey claimed that this reappearance required intense meditation and the reciting of the Great Invocation. Former UN Sec-Gen Dag Hammarskjold was also a follower of Bailey and he was responsible for the construction of the Meditation Room within the UN building.

UNQUOTE

If that isn't what "new age mumbo jumbo" & its multifarious forms of distorted manifestations are all about, I don't what is.

Conclusion: If one looks at what the Jesuits are attempting, in line with the Club of Rome's agenda, it becomes it quite recognisable that there is a common denominator that presents itself as something that it isn't...namely

"Enlightenment"
"Unification"
"Higher consciousness"
"Independent spirituality"
"New age & all its (false) promises"
"Survival & 'saving the planet'"
"Someone to lead us towards that purpose & 'goal'" (i.e., Dalai Lama, Pope, Obama,, etc., etc.)

I've a funny idea that the Jesuits need to be incorporated into this website as an extremely dangerous (certainly hitherto underestimated) & covert sect.

The Pope is the Whore of the 'Catholic' church & the Roman Catholic doctrine. The Dalai Lama is his 'counterpart' for "Buddhism", 'selling' his "spirituality" to the highest bidders on the political as well as the Hollywood 'stage'. Next thing you'll know, he'll be interviewed by the Whore of Marketing, Oprah Winfrey.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2008 10:50PM by xythos.

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xythos

Before I continue let me quote the president that that Obama clown is constantly being referred to but is nowhere close in possessing any real authentic charisma (not fabricated by the media or his backpushers), substance, integrity or uprightness (he's a Kenyan born 'bought' lackey who is doing his masters' bidding, just like Bush Jr was):

Xythos you are entitled to your opinion but it may serve you well to remember that the majority of people in this country voted for 'that Obama clown'.

This is a public message board where people share a wide variety of political views. There are ways to say that you don't support Obama without being so blatantly offensive. I personally read Obama's first book several years ago before he was particularly famous. To me personally, it was coherent, thoughtful, sensitive and not in the least 'robotic'.

So the Jesuits are a secret military society currently controlling the entire world. Um ... okay. This is quite the conspiracy theory. Honestly, I heard enough of such things while I was in my own cult.

The idea that there is some kind of nefarous 'green agenda' and that global warming, etc. do not exist is nonsensical. Scientists have confirmed and re-confirmed time and time again the perils facing the global environment. As discussed in the following article.

[www.blacksunjournal.com]

In my own opinion, the morass of conspiracy theories that plague the Internet are part of a rich compost in which various kinds of cults are able to put down deep roots and really flourish. I consider these ideas as much part of the 'cultic milieu' as any of the New Age notions discussed on this thread.

Discussions on this board are supposed to serve those strugling to exit from cultic groups/ relationships. They should probably be kept somewhat within the realm of verifiable facts in order to prevent further confusion, cognitive dissonance and disassociation from the society at large.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2008 07:57AM by solea13.

Haven't read the entire thread, but maybe its getting into the Conspiracy Theory stuff again?

All I can say, is what can be very helpful, is very careful critical intelligence and thinking, and analyses. That way, we are less likely to go down the rabbit hole.

A good place to start, is something like Carl Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit.
Its a way to look carefully at claims and evidence, and come up with the most likely answers.
If we don't use these sorts of mental tools, its too easy to fall down a rabbit hole. Many folks get wrapped into paranoid conspiracy theories, and it seems they never get out.

But there is a way out, and that is learning how to analyze evidence based on careful analysis, done with good faith, and without preconceptions. That is very hard to do, but its worth it.
That is the way out of the New Age nightmare too.

So for those who are interested, spend some time looking into the Baloney Detection Kit from the book The Demon Haunted World, its a great intro...the book is a fun read.
________________________________________________________
[users.tpg.com.au]

CARL SAGAN'S BALONEY DETECTION KIT

Based on the book The Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan

The following are suggested as tools for testing arguments and detecting fallacious or fraudulent arguments:


Wherever possible there must be independent confirmation of the facts
Encourage substantive debate on the evidence by knowledgeable proponents of all points of view.
Arguments from authority carry little weight (in science there are no "authorities").
Spin more than one hypothesis - don't simply run with the first idea that caught your fancy.
Try not to get overly attached to a hypothesis just because it's yours.
Quantify, wherever possible.
If there is a chain of argument every link in the chain must work.
"Occam's razor" - if there are two hypothesis that explain the data equally well choose the simpler.
Ask whether the hypothesis can, at least in principle, be falsified (shown to be false by some unambiguous test). In other words, it is testable? Can others duplicate the experiment and get the same result?
Additional issues are
Conduct control experiments - especially "double blind" experiments where the person taking measurements is not aware of the test and control subjects.
Check for confounding factors - separate the variables.
Common fallacies of logic and rhetoric
Ad hominem - attacking the arguer and not the argument.
Argument from "authority".
Argument from adverse consequences (putting pressure on the decision maker by pointing out dire consequences of an "unfavourable" decision).
Appeal to ignorance (absence of evidence is not evidence of absence).
Special pleading (typically referring to god's will).
Begging the question (assuming an answer in the way the question is phrased).
Observational selection (counting the hits and forgetting the misses).
Statistics of small numbers (such as drawing conclusions from inadequate sample sizes).
Misunderstanding the nature of statistics (President Eisenhower expressing astonishment and alarm on discovering that fully half of all Americans have below average intelligence!)
Inconsistency (e.g. military expenditures based on worst case scenarios but scientific projections on environmental dangers thriftily ignored because they are not "proved").
Non sequitur - "it does not follow" - the logic falls down.
Post hoc, ergo propter hoc - "it happened after so it was caused by" - confusion of cause and effect.
Meaningless question ("what happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable object?).
Excluded middle - considering only the two extremes in a range of possibilities (making the "other side" look worse than it really is).
Short-term v. long-term - a subset of excluded middle ("why pursue fundamental science when we have so huge a budget deficit?").
Slippery slope - a subset of excluded middle - unwarranted extrapolation of the effects (give an inch and they will take a mile).
Confusion of correlation and causation.
Straw man - caricaturing (or stereotyping) a position to make it easier to attack..
Suppressed evidence or half-truths.
Weasel words - for example, use of euphemisms for war such as "police action" to get around limitations on Presidential powers. "An important art of politicians is to find new names for institutions which under old names have become odious to the public"
Above all - read the book!

On december 10th Corboy wrote in two posts to address where the questionable stance originated that critical thinking, and conscious analysis of power came to be considered anti spiriutual and negative by the New Age scene.

As an example of it being possible to combine conscious thought about power and social justice with spirituality, I referred to the Liberation Theology movement, within Roman Catholicism.

And I referred to 'some Roman Catholics'--not the institutional Church as a whole.

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That we have to think consciously about power, social structures and that doing that is part of spirituality. Some Roman Catholics have attempted to do exactly this by coming up with Liberation Theology. There are valid arguments that too much of Liberation Theologyis permeated with out of date Marxist catagories, but at least Liberation Theology was developed from a context in which intellectual endeavor was considered compatible with spiritual practice.

And...the ability to combine spiritulity with analytic thought will remain a rare capacity as long as arguements that analytic thought is incompatible with spiriutality remain commonplace and unexamined, and if it remains commonplace to teach people that they can only be spiritual after they've left their brains at the front door.

The thread here has to do with the way unexamined New Age cliches are darkening minds, and dumbing us down, rather than assisting us to become intellectually aware AND spiriutualy alive and to discover this can be normal, not unusual at all.

Again, there is no reason why intellectual acuity should subvert spiritual awaking, in some sort of either or set up.

This is something that has to be questioned, not taken as a given.

For on the seekers circuit/New Age scene, it does seem to be taken as a given that intellectual acuity (and prudent fact checking) subvert spiritual progress, or that a few unusual persons are capable of combining intellectual acuity and spiritual depth.

Why consider this or dismiss this as rare or unusual? If more persons modelled this, more of us would reach this level. If all we eat are badly cooked vegetables, we will assume vegetables have to taste awful. Once you taste excellently cooked vegetables, you will consider it normal that they can taste good, even wonderful.

Ditto for combining a well trained alert mind with spiritual quest.

This mindset that devalues intellectual acuity and research and exalts 'spirituality' plays right into the hands of charlatans.

And I suggested back on the 10th that one source of this false idea may have been Vivekananda, through whose well intentioned but limited perspective Westeners and very many Western educated Indians were introduced to Hinduism, thinking they had the whole thing when all they were getting was a limited ideology with an anti intellectual slant that was part of a social movement to break the hold of Sanskrit educated powerholders and socially empower disenfranchised groups who wanted to modernize India at a critical time.

I referred, briefly to the small subsection of modern Catholicism termed the Liberation Theology movement, to suggest an analogy to what Vivekananda and other Hindu reformers were trying to do.

I didnt intend for this to become a launch pad into a conspiracy theory diatribe in weird font styles.

Our posts are not for our own private self expression, but to serve the community of RR.com readers--and that means not boring them or making them wonder if someone has been typing while under the influence of some chemical not endogenously produced by the human body.

X, I am no longer clear on what you want from RR.com and why you are here.

Others are probably becoming puzzled, too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2008 09:17AM by corboy.

also, on an even more blunt level, Leaders have always known is better for followers to NOT THINK TOO MUCH, or be too smart.
Like Yogi Bear says to Baba Loui..."I'll do the thinning around here".

So on a very blunt level, Leaders and cultish Leaders, have always wanted to supress the intellect of their followers. Don't think...just follow orders, do what you are told.
Like kids in a primitive boarding school.

So it seems very clear that cultish Leaders have always know that stupifying their followers is a must.

Hey, if you were a cultish leader, would you want critical thinkers figuring out all of your lies and BS, and exposing you? NOT!!
You freedom of mind is their enemy.

AntiCult I am going to use those words of advice.

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solea13
The idea that there is some kind of nefarous 'green agenda' and that global warming, etc. do not exist is nonsensical. Scientists have confirmed and re-confirmed time and time again the perils facing the global environment. As discussed in the following article.

[www.blacksunjournal.com]

Yes, dating back to last year…

Quote

In my own opinion, the morass of conspiracy theories that plague the Internet are part of a rich compost in which various kinds of cults are able to put down deep roots and really flourish. I consider these ideas as much part of the 'cultic milieu' as any of the New Age notions discussed on this thread. Discussions on this board are supposed to serve those strugling to exit from cultic groups/ relationships..

This could be an explanation of what you referred to:

[forum.culteducation.com]
[forum.culteducation.com]
[forum.culteducation.com]

All these threads fall into your categories... as is, with any theory (i.e., prior to or after coming out of the daze, it's always depending on what side of the fence you're standing. Whether that be 'religious', 'political', 'spiritual', 'ecological' or, as you point out; "conspiracy nut theories".

It is worth noting that all these cults often have, at their origin, the cult leader in question having a distorted view of the world.

But, as far as theories are concerned, & the reality of what is happening on an every day to day basis (parts of the US are seriously snowed under, Europe has not seen such masses of snowfall in ages), it is not a morass of conspiracy theories, just right in your face evidence of climate change being very mightily a 'change' but not necessarily towards global warming...

Like I have said, I do not belong to any 'cult'.

I have been affected by them from day one & although no-one at that time would have described "fundamentalist Christianity" as being cultish, it has found its way onto this website which was created in June 2002.

So the 'gap' between when this 'religious direction' was not considered 'cultish' (in 1970) but "the right way to do our Lord's work" & the 'stature' it has taken on in today’s "perception & environment" are quite different. And so it is with your view of "consider these ideas as much part of the 'cultic milieu' as any of the New Age notions discussed on this thread".

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solea13
They should probably be kept somewhat within the realm of verifiable facts in order to prevent further confusion, cognitive dissonance and disassociation from the society at large

Peculiar... I think that there is no black & white, but there are plenty of shades of grey... As an example, if I were to state Einstein's relativity theory back in the late 40s to the mostly uneducated public at the time, it could very easily have fallen into the above-mentioned example of yours. And, yes, by 'extremists', it could very well have been considered as a 'diabolical plan' by a group of people that, as you say, contribute to "'confusion' & 'disassociation from the society at large". Just as the scientists at CERN are decried by various religious fundamentalists (notably American) as 'interfering with God's plan'.

Time has a way to teach those who care to remember. People don't change. The atomic bomb hasn't taught those in power to stop their warfare. It has only sophisticated the whole 'machinery'.

To tell you the truth, I have come to a place where I hardly believe any 'official' mumbo jumbo being sold as "the truth"... The first casualty in politics is precisely the truth. Same goes for 'religious', new age or any other agenda driven belief system.

As a matter of fact, I don't believe anything & I question everything, especially 'official' taglines... As an example, I don't find that link 'black sun' that convincing either... But that's another matter all together...

I have been betrayed too often by 'official bodies' & 'official', outwardly "well-intended" organisations, people I had no choice over, being enforced to "trust" at an age when I had no choice who abused my vulnerability well & thoroughly (with the American seal of the US Consulate to close the deal properly).

With that awful experience of being at the hands of (mostly but not all American) individuals, I have pretty much lost faith in anyone trying to 'convince' (i.e., 'sell') me of their "brand" of "truth as I 'tell' you". When 'theories' are no longer just "a rich compost in which various kinds of cults 'flourish'" but you've experienced them & their devious agenda in the full bright light of the day on your very own person, it then goes pretty much without saying that 'official' "yes-sayers" (i.e., politicians driving the 'global warming agenda', 'missionaries' doing "the best for all these poor orphans") are not exactly a reliable source of 'trustworthiness'.

As many "pro" global warming sayers there have been, there at least as many that who take the opposite stance. As the game of politics & let's not forget, religion, goes, it is almost always without exception tied into big money (yes, I know you may think that is once more some "conspiracy crap"), the one who can 'fundraise' the most cash can bring his side of his "cultish view" to the fore with the most exposure.

That isn't conspiracy 'stuff', that's just politics plain & simple.

And, as the saying goes, money is in & of itself, not evil. It depends who uses it for what purposes. In the world of (US) politics that certainly goes hand in hand with getting the 'candidate's version being 'promoted' the most to the sheeple... (i.e., the cultish, brainwashed 'public' being drowned by propaganda in various forms – I know what that looks like... I had the dubious 'privilege' to live in LA when Arnie was running for governor of CA).

Talk about 'cultish'!

It was enough to make any critical person wonder whether this whole circus was nothing but a huge 'brainwash' machinery to get the 'voters' (sheeple) to "vote for" X or for Z.

I am not the least surprised that there's such a variety of cults in the US... Having to witness 'pro' demonstrators for either candidate, the really out of control, overemotional behaviour on either side... It's enough to make any half-decent sane person run for cover... Never mind the 'pro' global warming defenders or their counterpart.

It makes one deeply suspicious of anything that is 'promoted' as a "solution", "truth", "justice" or "scientific", not to mention, critical thinking ability with the detachment necessary to actually engage in this without becoming personally derogatory or insulting (as corgirl so beautifully portrays).

The common thread that shines through invariably is this "either/or".

Corgirl's 'expose' is such an example, where she is repeating her Hinduism "line of methodology comparison of 'one vs the other" to seemingly drive home the point of my being unable to distinguish one from the other all the while generously insulting me as being 'off me trolley' which then very clearly shows that as much as she would like to be "above board" & "above reproach", "having it all figured out" (ivory tower style), it has taken on a distinctive "I can't stand you- you make me sick! Get lost & go away!" vibe that is as emotionally coloured & biased as one can get... So much as to the 'unofficial' forum queen.

With time I've certainly come to a conclusion that America seems to be infected with a cultish-oriented mentality... It runs deep within the American psyche, more so, than in other countries.... I'm not saying that there aren't 'movements' existing in other countries, such as China, Japan, Korea, or continents (Africa, Europe or anywhere else in the world), but America in particular seems to suffer from that infliction more than any other nation I know of.

It begs one to question why that is.

But then again, as mentioned above, when one has witnessed the way the 'body politic' is running elections, it doesn't surprise one at all... Elections are a circus anywhere on the planet but...there's something very fanatic about how it's run in the US...which is certainly extremely unnerving to observe for an outsider. The one thing kept that coming to my mind whenever I saw all these people lining both sides of the streets & literally shouting into my face to 'vote for' Arnie or his counterpart; was: "they're all mental". Why would it be any different with the "saviour boy" now?

It's crazy.

Maybe it has to do with a deep unconscious inclination to be in denial (starting with how America was 'won'), the bigotry of "the end justifies the means" (the endless slaughter of killing indigenous tribes in order to get cheap farmland), the hipocrisy that says one thing but really means something else entirely, and, last but not least, the obsession of being in power & running the show...

America is the country of make-believe. Everything's for sale. Emotions, love, health, religion, truth, science, babies, law, religion, politics, your sanity. It's running through the whole fabric of society. It's no wonder then, that this is the perfect platform for all these contorted ideologies to grow faster than there are enough people to keep them from springing up everywhere - akin to Medea's head, who, as soon as you have cut off one head, up come another 10 before you know what happened!

As I have said previously, one needs to look at the root of the problem, not the symptoms.

If you keep looking at the outgrowths of the dis-ease (cults & sects), you do not solve the problem.

So rather than getting 'lost' in outwards ideologies of "pro" global warming, or "morasses of conspiracy theories that are part of a rich compost in which various kinds of cults are able to put down deep roots and really flourish", or intellectualised regurgitated mumbo jumbo semantics of critical thinking vs spiritual or, integrating both, I, instead, have, from my own observations, (& I do not stand alone in this) come to question, why the American people have such a need to run with anyone who looks half-way as if they could take the people to the promised land. Be that political, ideological, spiritual or religious...

The only 'reality' that seems to be constant is the "two party" system - i.e., black or white, red or blue, good or evil, conspiracy vs. other possibilities of reality, child-parent like relationships represented in almost every aspect of American ideology, be they political, religious, spiritual, scientific.

It seems to me, that one major factor in contributing to this psychologically immature inclination to 'look for' somebody to "give them direction" seems to be that it hasn't really evolved emotionally since the beginning of the DoI.

Spiritual independence is in complete contradiction to being a follower, no matter which orientation or 'cloak' it may present itself in. Ultimately, that leads to not defending or feeding any one particular 'agenda', doctrine or belief system for a prolonged period of time.

Spiritual maturity is being able to take on board that which one deems agreeable within one's own worldview & perception of reality, and being able to let go of it when it no longer is 'up-to-'date' as we (hopefully) evolve, grow & become a fully conscious mature individual, able to think for ourselves, to be critical of everything that comes in before 'making up our minds' or simply decide to not have any opinion at all & to just let it be & remove oneself completely from any 'too extreme' ideology, or doctrine, no matter how 'benign' it may seem on the outset...

Ultimately it comes down to making a conscious choice to stand on your own feet, with no one dictating you to "pro/con", "this theorem over another", "this way of thinking/critical analysis", "what spirituality is or isn't" but to gravitate towards that which solea13 has said themselves: to exit from cultic groups/relationships.

Any position that is 'defended too strongly' bears within it the risk of taking on 'cultish' group/relationship like behaviour. It ends up trapping the one who sought 'truth', 'justice', 'freedom' & 'independence'.

Spiritual independence, if I am not mistaken, is, I would think, the hoped for & attempted for goal within the context of "exiting 'cultish' brainwashing methodoligies". Be that conspiracy theories, contorted rationalisations of trying to sound all 'intelligent, wise & 'mature' all the while masking as envy in the form of attacks & insults.

To walk away from this whole charade & truly, verily, authentically stand on your own, by yourself, no crutches of any kind (least of all too many books or too much information!), takes enormous self-discipline, self-reliance, resilience & the determination to not waver at the first sign of being "put on the spot".

To disentangle oneself from the need to be "liked", 'approved of' or "respected" is granting one that freedom which one seeks. An autonomous, self-aware, fully integrated individual within oneself, warts n'all, secure & strong without having to make amends or apologies (or, for that matter, justifications as well as rationalisations) for that which one feels is true, irrespective of the masses' common denominator that would have you believe anything but.

Lack of critical thinking seems to be one of the reasons cults have such a great following, in spite of all the hard work people in all areas of society are trying to invest in to curb the exponantially growing 'membership' all across the planet...

True, authentic freedom demands being able to take full responsibility for oneself & not direct the blame on an outside source. It demands we not only develop but also choose to use all our faculties without exception & at all times, in order to maintain the balance within our self-established independence. This message board is, if I understand correctly, the starting platform from which we can grow mature & as capable of our own destiny in every sense of the word.

Especially spiritually.

If that is not the genuine underlying common denominator, I truly might have missed what this whole message board is about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2008 10:22PM by xythos.

Hi Xythos;
there is an old saying, don't talk about religion or politics at the dinner table; perhaps on this board it is better to focus on the religion, and leave out the politics..
What is interesting is that it seems to me that you, Anticult and Corboy are all saying similar things in different ways.Anticult is pointing out the importance of understanding that cult leaders want unquestioning followers, and the best protection is to think critically.
Corboy is saying that asking questions of religious leaders and looking out for inconsistencies is important. You are saying don't trust organizations to tell you the truth, look at the facts for yourself.
Though I suspect I have different views from you on many things,(including politics) I do have sympathy with how you feel about questioning everything.Having grown up in a group and had to question all the social mores and attitudes that I had been taught were obviously correct, I also got to look at outside society and see that even non cult culture is based on in some ways a similar set of assumptions,not necessarily grounded in anything other than "this is the way is should be done".
And like you, any religious leader interpreting God for me is something i am not comfortable with. Maybe it is because of past experiences?

As another aside, it would probably be more polite not to change someones' user name.People choose user names for a variety of reasons, not all of them based on gender. Even your name is fairly gender neutral.Best just to call people what they want to be called.

All the best, Yasmin



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2008 11:41PM by yasmin.