Xythos, I'm sorry that you feel under fire here. I understand that you feel personally attacked but I don't think the comments were intended as 'vitriolic'. They were not on my part.
Well....I'm (understandably, I'd think) very
wary & on my guard after what I've been put through here. Thank you for your understanding & making a genuine effort to deflect the pressure...(little smile).
It simply seems better to me to avoid conspiracy theories that we can't really back up with verifiable facts. It is my own personal opinion that it can sometimes add to our confusion rather than clarify things for us.
True... Let me quote somebody who was instrumental in 'creating' "truth" rather than 'feed' conspiracy theories...:If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie.
~ Dr. Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's minister of propaganda
It seems that you, on the other hand, have read a great deal about these theories and of course you are entitled to your opinions.
Unfortunately, it isn't solely based on having "read a great deal about these theories" solea 13. (Please read my account on the expansions thread).
My life experience has been such that I have seen peaceful protesters against the Iraq war being beaten to mush by the very forces that are supposed to 'protect the people', who were armed to their teeth with pepper spray, teargas, batons, moving in on & encircling these peaceful citizens on horse, on foot, on bike, on motorbike, with dogs ready to tear the unarmed sit-down protesters on the asphalt to pieces if given the "go-ahead".
The colts were visible, the energy was very, very
scary & oppressive & all I can say is that I admired these brave Americans who were trying to protest the outbreak of the Iraq war knowing full well that it was built on nothing but a pretense to 'conquer' more oil in order to ensure the American way of life.
I have witnessed deliberate
vandalism where the 'protesters' were just out to destroy the symbols of "market capitalism & globalism" such as McD's, Mercedes dealers, and countless other shops - in London - during the (then still) G7 summit.
So I do
know the difference between peaceful protest by those attempting to exercise their 1st amendment rights & vandalism driven protest & it is not simply 'based' on having read one too many weird 'theories'.... It is based on first hand experience, having felt the fear, the darkness of the police force (& rising police state) in full light of that beautiful, sunny CA day. That just made it the more terrifying.
Remember that I have mentioned in my 'nationalised Ponzi scheme' thread that I knew back in 2003 (& after
having been witness to the rising arm of the militarised police) where America was going to go - which is one of the main reasons I why left...
I myself do not deny that there are systems in place and people in power who are not working for the best interest of humankind. I agree that it may indeed be true that the Jesuits as an organization have a great deal of wealth, power and influence over certain events in this country and the world - beyond that I don't yet know.
I am glad you are open to this... For it is the Vatican that has more power over a lot of the apparent unrelated 'systems of abuse' (particularly the scandals surrounding the church) - I cannot stress this often enough... They have their own monetary system, their own law as well as their own military SS (secret Service) - which are the Jesuits.
Alberto Rivera is one of the few who have managed to escape the Jesuit Cult & when he finally started to speak up about it, not long thereafter, he was 'terminated' by these very factions.
The City of London (more specifically, the UK in particular - which is the other place I lived for for 4 years - uninterrupted) has its own 'ceremonial' process whereby the Queen
of England has to ask
permission to enter that very restricted square mile - the financial power centre of Europe. Again, I have witnessed this myself - and, the City of London, too, has its own rules, legislation & law. I've lived & worked in the City of London within the financial banking system, so I would think I at least have some awareness of what the fin ancial system entails.
And yes, it was at a time, when Lehman Brothers were still strong & unassailable. Salomon Brothers, Morgan Stanley, Citibank, Goldman Sachs - I've walked through most of the corridors in these 'financial institutions' - top notch. The "crème de la crème" of financial rulership. The bankers' & stockbrokers' arrogance was legendary, as well as their moon lighting after a "hard day's work", drinking themselves beyond oblivion into a stupor & "honouring" the bypassers with their pale, lardy backsides - not
! a 'pretty' sight. But part of the whole scene.
The City of London is not
! "subject" to the British Commonwealth... or the United Kingdom's rule of law.
Regarding your concerns that America itself is a cult, you may be interested in a couple of books by Dr. Arthur Deikman to help you research this:
The Wrong Way Home: Uncovering the Patterns of Cult Behavior in American Society (Hardcover)
Amazing you should mention this book for I sent this very excerpt mentioned in the book off a link to someone I thought had begun to fall for their
respective myth from this very website! So, as you can tell, we might after all, be on the same page...
What is helpful is to think (as the second title states) in terms of 'patterns' of cultic thinking or 'elements' of cultic thinking within the society, rather than America as a whole being a 'cult'.
Hm...yes, I suppose for somebody who has grown up in America & whose life experience is (without meaning to come across as 'insulting' towards anyone here, just knowing the majority of the populace's "travelling experiences") 'limited' to America - as so often is the case - I would think, especially within the 'cult culture'
of staying 'grounded' - meaning, not going anywhere
without obvious 'approval, consent & permission' of the cult/cult leader in question, it might appear as such.
However, what has happened primarily in Europe after WWII is that a 'hero-ization of "America the saviour of the world" has led to what could truly be dubbed as America having become the 'role model' - leader, "Führer", "world police" that can do no wrong - as much by the nations that were 'saved' from the Nazi regime as well as by America itself, carefully 'grooming' this image.
The less obvious 'consequence' to this was a slowly developing independent, self-feeding dynamic of self-aggrandisement, self-inflation, sense of entitlement & self-righteousness that "the rest of the world should be thankful" for the American model of "way of life" of representing 'freedom & democracy' & the resulting pompous paradigm of "we own the world".
It is then no longer just a "conspiracy" based on having read too many strange 'off-handed' theories, it has over the years become the proverbial 'proof in the pudding' that America has 'cultivated' an inflated sense of self-importance & by so doing, has turned itself into a 'cult' of sorts on the intl' stage of politics, economics, 'human rights', etc, all the while breaking them without thinking twice when it comes to their own national interests.
Europeans by & large are better educated & more knowledgeable about America than a lot of citizens residing there... It was painful to watch Jay Leno 'interviewing' the American voters prior to the 'election'.... The ignorance was rampant & enough to make anyone
cringe... And this nation then thinks it has voted 'in full knowledge' of their political system.... That's as far as it goes. They do not know all too much about other nations' political systems, nor do they really understand because the linguistic barrier prevents them from being able to fully participate in the culture & how it works from within. In Europe it is more common knowledge than in the US that Grampa Bush was a major financier of Hitler...and it is not
'considered' a conspiracy. Just an awareness of the political factions operating behind the curtain...
One of the most telling remarks I've heard on Thursday on French TV with regards to the Raelians' growing grip on Canada was that:
"Americans are regressing emotionally but because Europe has always dragged about 10 years behind the American 'wave/movements', this is creating a kind of double loop on the European continent & the sects' expanding grip on France".
If you read French, here's the synopsis (link is here [programmes.france2.fr
])QUOTECes gourous qui nous manipulent
Manipulés, isolés, escroqués...
En France, plusieurs centaines de milliers de personnes seraient sous l’emprise de groupes sectaires. Ces multiples organisations promettent toujours la même chose: le bonheur absolu, un épanouissement de tous les instants, de nouveaux pouvoirs, une harmonie totale...
En somme, une nouvelle vie. Derrière ces promesses se cachent souvent de bien douloureuses méthodes: Escroquerie, déstabilisation mentale
, traitement douteux, abus de confiance
... Autant de dérives sectaires qui, aujourd’hui, toucheraient de plein fouet plusieurs milieux dont le monde paramédical. Leur cible principale : les enfants. Plus troublant encore : ces thérapeutes qui inventent de faux traumatismes soit disant vécus dans l’enfance. Des psychothérapies sauvages
aux conséquences souvent désastreuses. Il s’agit là du "syndrome des faux souvenirs induits", un nouveau phénomène qui touche de nombreux pays. Pour mener l’enquête, l’une de nos journalistes s’est infiltrée au sein de plusieurs mouvements à caractère sectaire. Pendant plusieurs mois, elle a évolué dans ces milieux clos, là où les caméras sont rarement les bienvenues.UNQUOTE
Again this should not be taken as an insult (though hard it might be to believe) but Americans have never really been known to travel much anywhere other than from maybe one state to another...from the South to the West or the West to the East Coast. Distances all right but still 'only' one "country".
I lived in the MLK's hometown for a good nine months. I've been to the holiest of 'representative bodies' of your nation: the Capitol.
People mix up the focus of power with the WH, but it is really the Capitol where the fate of the nation is being decided. As well as the Supreme Court.
I have stood at JFK's gravestone in Arlington, VA & I have seen the wall for the Vietnam vet's. And, most notably, I've been to the WTC before it was subject to a controlled demolition.
This is one of the biggest difference maybe, with myself & those trying to rattle my opinions here. They have no foreign country experience worth mentioning. And, it takes at least
2 years to really begin to understand how a country works (I've spent three consecutive years the 2nd time I lived in America & a good 20 months the first time around).
This helps to avoid black and white thinking. American society is so complex, with so many races and religions, with freely-practiced beliefs and traditions that it probably can't be defined as a cult in the strictest sense as much as say, North Korea.
I was not born in North Korea. I was born south of the Demarcation Zone.... I don't have "black & white thinking" & I know
American society is very complex (& it is also
still a very divided country in spite of the proclamations to the opposite....
I'd 'invite' the suggestion for you to live for a good few years in another country (& not an English speaking country & no, not Mexico because it is much too influenced by its big neighbour) & then re-assess your own view of America as a nation.
I myself have spent 8 years in total abroad (out of my adoptive country), so most of what I say here is backed up with lived experience, not 'read' theoretical knowledge...
One only truly begins to 'see' what one's own country is when one has lived sufficiently long enough abroad from whence one grew up to really begin to 'appreciate' the different view the world has of one's homeland.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2008 06:26AM by xythos.