This is exactly why Ching Hai picks wedge-issues like this to promote.
And its why she chose her other slogans and the diet of her restaurants. Have been doing some research in this area, and will post the details soon.

But every sect needs mechanisms to use in public, something to use to begin to open the doors of peoples minds.
Ching Hai has found several methods to use on the public.

As a front, to attract members of the public..
Some sects sell personal "enlightenment", others sell personal wealth and success, others sell saving the world, others sell eternal life, other sell beauty and pleasure, other sell the idea of supernatural powers, it goes on and on.

Ching Hai seems to be selling all of those at once.
But in fact, those are simply ways for Ching Hai to open the door to her followers minds, and the true program is very simple.

Follow your Supreme Master Ching Hai and follow the Supreme Masters instructions. Obey.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2011 07:07PM by The Anticult.

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Stoic

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Ocean_Of_Lies
It's ridiculous to imagine that one member of the filming crew could have possibly believed one second that the boy was not feeded during the night, when it's impossible to look at him. But the documentary doesn't even imply that fact.

The documentary stated that fact several times--where else did you get it from?

Yes, they did discreetly mentioned that fact, but they present it as a simple technical constraint, when it's actually a scam red light flashing. If they were openly assuming the probable scam, so tell me what's the point in keeping filming until the end of the 96 hours? (and insisting on the suspens, with the timemeter running, taaaa taaaa... will he fail or not? is it a miracle or not?) I was just saying that by doing so, the crew implies that the filming process can still be considered as a proof, and that there may really be a miracle. Of course most people will not fall into that manipulation. But some are effectively manipulated. Isn't it a way for Discovery Channel, with a much wider audience, to make profits with the breatharian scam? I was just saying that.

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Stoic

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Ocean_Of_Lies
I don't know where you got the idea that a media have a primary function to entertain, not educate. That's just your point of view.

It is not in fact my point of view. I was giving you three alternative ways to consider the problem of the stark black and white thinking of the division of the world into true/false, good/bad. I see from your aggressive response and argumentative assumptions that you have already decided what my point of view is and that you are not prepared to think any further than that.

That is your point of view and you are entitled to it.

You may have been upset because I wrote "You should not ignore..." instead of "You may not ignore..." (please forgive me that), then you focus on that point and totally forget what I was talking about : a comparison between Ching Hai and Discovery Channel.

I was not talking about you. I was just discussing with you, trying to make you understand why I was citicizing that documentary. So I was not agressive against you, I was agressive against the Discovery Channel (like some of us here can be agressive against Ching Hai right now). If you thought it was against you, then please accept my apologizes. It may be a communication problem, a lack of accuracy in my language, or a bad habit I have, to use strong words.

I introduced my point of view by "So my point is:" and I thought it was clear enough...

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Ocean_Of_Lies
So, my point is :
Ching Hai is using breatharianism to make her audience captive, and so make profit.
Discovery Channel is also using breatharianism to make it's audience captive, and so make profit.
But...
Ching Hai is watched by disciples only (who are already drown in an ocean of scams)
Discovery Channel is watched by a very very large audience all over the world, which implies much more power, and so much more responsibilities.

To use your words, I was trying to put our accusations toward Ching Hai into an alternative perspective. And I notice that you didn't say a word about that (which is the present subject). You are just discussing on what I misunderstood about yourself.

Again, I'm sorry if I made you upset.

Saying something is wrong is not necessarily falling into a black and white thinking. Or else why would we lose our time accusing Ching Hai from promoting breatharianism? Why couldn't just let her pretend and promote whatever she wants, because we would have no right to decide what is true or false? We do it because we think it's bad to abuse people's credulity, specially on matters which can dangerously affect their life.

Then we can question ourself how much we should concentrate on that breatharian question, considering that it's just a part of Ching Hai's technique for mind control, and maybe not the most important one.

It seems to me that disciples are much more worried by the necessity to erradicate meat consumption than reaching a breatharian way of life (which can be seen more like an ideal than like a concrete goal they intend to reach).

We are mainly talking about what we see from outside (like scams and scandals related by newspapers, blogs, forums...), and from the informations that Ching Hai's communication team choose to deliver to people from outside.

It would be good if, on an other side, we could keep learning more about the initiation process, in order to have a better understanding of what disciples are going through during their initiation, I mean the internal affairs, from the fisrt contact with someone from the sect, until the total submission to the Master. And in which order informations are delivered to them, how do they learn meditation, how is the life in the meditation centers, what is the content of the QuanYin teachings, what do they feel, what do they know about other disciples feelings, what are they allowed or not allowed to know, to say, to do, etc.

The only testimony I heard about is that one on Rick Ross website [www.culteducation.com] I tried to ask my friend, but she remains very vague about the process. She may have been told not to give details to people from outside. I would be glad to read more testimonies, from ex-disciples who participate in this thread, or anyone else.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2011 09:31PM by Ocean_Of_Lies.

'But some are effectively manipulated.'

My point to you was that yes, some are effectively manipulated---and the easiest to manipulate are those who insist on the black/white thinking, true/false, good/bad dichotomy.
Another red flag waving above an easily manipulated person is one who expects to be spoon-fed concrete, certain answers to the question of whether or not anything that man can dream up can be so finally labelled good/bad, true/false etc.
Luckily, the vast majority of the real world does not go in for such fundamentalist thinking--and successful manipulation is very much about the paucity of active and engaged thought in fundamentalist thinking and belief.

Had the documentary makers spoon-fed you an answer either true or false, no personal thought required--as you are assuming they have a duty to do---that would be the biggest manipulative red flag possible for a thinking person.

And if you are not yet a thinking person, its high time to start---you have some catching up to do if you wish to stay out of the clutches of the many clever conmen abroad in the world.

Lets keep in mind that english might not be the primary language around Ching Hai and those criticizing her, so there is no point getting into misunderstandings over a few words.
The real issue is Ching Hai and how she does what she does to people.

As well, many Gurus get proven to be liars and crooks in the media, yet many followers still believe in them. Some people just ignore the facts.

Its true Breatharianism appears to be a sideline of Ching Hai. But it really isn't, as its one of the areas where Ching Hai takes people outside of reality. Every sect has those areas where they take people to the point of believing impossible things.
And exposing the Breatharian fraud to other Vegans serves to debunk Ching Hai.

The indoctrination process of Ching Hai will also get exposed soon, and why Ching Hai decided to use her slogans, and focus on the areas she focuses on. Every sect needs an area of focus they can take public, to be used in the recruitment process.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2011 02:22AM by The Anticult.

'so there is no point getting into misunderstandings over a few words.'

Actually, Anticult, there is a point to elucidating the misunderstandings of language and this is not with reference to English being or not being the mother tongue.

Manipulation is begun by using exactly the assumptions, omissions and leaps of logic shown here and it is continued by then attempting to intimidate, scapegoat and shame any person who speaks up and strays from the party line.

All of this uses words and language--minimising the misunderstandings of words and language is skating over the root of the problem for our thoughts are shaped by our understanding of words and language.

Not all conflict is a bad thing to be avoided.

Dear Stoic, in my last entry, I apologized 3 times for what I wrote inaccurately and could have make you upset. I also tried to make you clearly understand what was my point about, but you keep trying to make me say what I'm not saying. It's not a problem of telling the audience what is true or false, and what they have to think. It's a problem of not concealing the evidences in order to make reality more entertaining. I make a difference between "spoon-feed concrete" and "trying to keep a scientific approach" (especially when it's what they pretend to do). I don't care if a lot of documentary cheat to raise the audience, or if lots of documentary makers perfer not to give a conclusion (I didn't disagree with you on that point). I was just talking about sensitive subjects like breatharianism, of which a lot of people ignore everything about, and are ready to swallow anything (even without spoon) just because it's "seen on TV".

I believe you are a very smart thinking person, and you don't need to be "spoon-fed". Good for you.

But you definitely seem to take pleasure in despising people who dare to misunderstand or to contradict you, so I tell just once and then I'll shut up : I'm not going to play that game with you. Not only because I'm not skilled enough to fight in english, but also because even in french that would not interest me.

I'm not here to spoon-feed one's thirst of polemic, I'm here ONLY to get and to share informations about Ching Hai. I may not be clear enough, and sometimes not smart enough, but I do my best. Any entry I write requier many time to me, so from now I will use that time for usefull purpose, if you don't mind.

You seem to be very active member of this forum. But until now your contributions on this thread are mainly to quibble over my words. Don't you have anything to share or to ask about Ching Hai instead?

'I'm not going to play that game with you'

which rather begs the question of why you attempted to play that game with me, starting right here:

[forum.culteducation.com]

FYI, I am not upset, just interested in an accurate portrayal of the subject under discussion.


'But you definitely seem to take pleasure in despising people who dare to misunderstand or to contradict you,'

You might like to try avoiding the very personal and erroneous assumptions of what I am feeling on any given subject--- for which you have no basis to speculate at all, factual or otherwise.


'Don't you have anything to share or to ask about Ching Hai instead?'

Nothing at all to ask. But I have this to share: Ching Hai is a very transparent conwoman, her manoeuvres and methods are easy to spot. Pointing out those methods of manipulation--which do not vary much from person to person---- is what this board is about.

'But until now your contributions on this thread are mainly to quibble over my words.'

If you try your manipulation, bully and bombast with me--- I will point that out too.

Lets try to keep the focus of this thread, on the Queen of All Media brainwashing herself, the Supreme Master Ching Hai.
Ching Hai is very obvious to those with experience in cult-busting, but sadly, she is duping a lot of people in certain areas.

You got from me the rough words you may have deserved.
As for the rest, you should't lose too much time in useless paranoia. You overestimate me :)

Sorry guys, I'll try not spoiling the thread again in the future.