Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by:
Culthusiast
()
Date: March 06, 2023 11:07PM
Quote
Are those assholes still running that store in Lahaina, why don’t they give it to DTE, assholes--- and they call themselves my disciples make all kinds of money while their kids skate and surf, assholes, they should give it to me
Does anyone know what happened to the owners of this store in Lahaina referred in the quote? It is not on the list of stores of the "Down to Earth" network - apparently they did not transfer the store to the network. Are these people still in the cult?
Do you know how connected Balakhilya das is with the "Down to Earth" network today? According to archival articles, he was associated, among others, with by Jiva Ltd. together with Moore.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2023 11:08PM by Culthusiast.
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by:
Truth wins
()
Date: March 07, 2023 11:31PM
In all my years of being part of SoI I never heard of butler and muncie being the incarnation of NitaiGaur.
If this is a fact, they are a bit more worse off than I thought.
Devotees cannot do drugs, smoke, gamble, have material fun…. Beliefs and spiritual bliss is all they can trip on.
Of course they will milk the beliefs as much as possible.
I am a person who grew up on faith. And I can say that not buying any beliefs can be quite painful.
When you go very deep into the rabbit hole, you realize that you have been sold a huge amount of lies mixed with some truths.
No matter how deep you dig, you will never find the true answers as to how this reality operates.
So those who have a firm belief in the gita, bible, koran… have some peace in their hearts.
They believe that everything in this clown show makes perfect sense. Why? Because and all powerful lord and master god is in control.
This hope and logic help billions to stand this rather rough realm.
I never knew how powerful beliefs were. I only grasped it when I let go of beliefs.
If I know chant the maha mantra, it has almost no effect on me.
But when my faith was strong, I would enter a diferent dimension emotionally closing my eyes.
This is why I was so addcited to it.
I know a woman who is as fanatic as the hare krishnas but her belief is that we (the soul) chose to coem here to learn lessons and grow.
And that narcissists and psychopaths are our greatest teachers.
She also wants to hammer that belief into ther people’s heads. If you don’t enjoy life on earth, you are seen as a person who plays victim.
I think we live in one giant the blind leading the blind reality where everybody thinks their beliefs is greater than the guy next door.
There is nothing more humbling than realizing we don’t know anything about anything.
And this is something most humans are not ready to accept. So they need to buy one program or the other.
Beliefs are truly what keep most alive.
If the goal of the human life is to shed false ego, the lower self, cleanse the heart… it can be done without a guru and scriptures.
Noone can stop the natural evolution or progress of the individual soul.
When you are carefully watched in the high security SOI mental hospital/prison, you are obligated to act and speak a certain way.
Many times people just act holy while within they are still Aholes.
So how much of the change attained at SoI is sincere versus a show in order to avoid trouble or getting thrown out.
It is and can be a bit of a bandaid solution. It all looks pretty good from the outside compared to a material world setting.
However it is still rotten from the inside because noone has truly done the work.
Ultimately one can reach the JESUS state without being under the microscope of 10000 devotees and guru.
Those poor souls would not even be able to recognize a pure soul. Because all that counts is the external.
How much service, money, time… can you offer? Who gives one single damn about your pure heart?
At the end of the day, the goal of SoI is not even about reaching the pure devotee state.
It is about pleasing/serving a rather unstable master and his mindless minions.
It is not about purification. You actually get even more infected in that group.
But overall it is a very nice and good illusion. Another illusion amongst thousands of other illusions.
There are zero chances of bursting that illusion bubble. Especially for those who have been snorting the bliss for 40 years.
If this is a fact, they are a bit more worse off than I thought.
Devotees cannot do drugs, smoke, gamble, have material fun…. Beliefs and spiritual bliss is all they can trip on.
Of course they will milk the beliefs as much as possible.
I am a person who grew up on faith. And I can say that not buying any beliefs can be quite painful.
When you go very deep into the rabbit hole, you realize that you have been sold a huge amount of lies mixed with some truths.
No matter how deep you dig, you will never find the true answers as to how this reality operates.
So those who have a firm belief in the gita, bible, koran… have some peace in their hearts.
They believe that everything in this clown show makes perfect sense. Why? Because and all powerful lord and master god is in control.
This hope and logic help billions to stand this rather rough realm.
I never knew how powerful beliefs were. I only grasped it when I let go of beliefs.
If I know chant the maha mantra, it has almost no effect on me.
But when my faith was strong, I would enter a diferent dimension emotionally closing my eyes.
This is why I was so addcited to it.
I know a woman who is as fanatic as the hare krishnas but her belief is that we (the soul) chose to coem here to learn lessons and grow.
And that narcissists and psychopaths are our greatest teachers.
She also wants to hammer that belief into ther people’s heads. If you don’t enjoy life on earth, you are seen as a person who plays victim.
I think we live in one giant the blind leading the blind reality where everybody thinks their beliefs is greater than the guy next door.
There is nothing more humbling than realizing we don’t know anything about anything.
And this is something most humans are not ready to accept. So they need to buy one program or the other.
Beliefs are truly what keep most alive.
If the goal of the human life is to shed false ego, the lower self, cleanse the heart… it can be done without a guru and scriptures.
Noone can stop the natural evolution or progress of the individual soul.
When you are carefully watched in the high security SOI mental hospital/prison, you are obligated to act and speak a certain way.
Many times people just act holy while within they are still Aholes.
So how much of the change attained at SoI is sincere versus a show in order to avoid trouble or getting thrown out.
It is and can be a bit of a bandaid solution. It all looks pretty good from the outside compared to a material world setting.
However it is still rotten from the inside because noone has truly done the work.
Ultimately one can reach the JESUS state without being under the microscope of 10000 devotees and guru.
Those poor souls would not even be able to recognize a pure soul. Because all that counts is the external.
How much service, money, time… can you offer? Who gives one single damn about your pure heart?
At the end of the day, the goal of SoI is not even about reaching the pure devotee state.
It is about pleasing/serving a rather unstable master and his mindless minions.
It is not about purification. You actually get even more infected in that group.
But overall it is a very nice and good illusion. Another illusion amongst thousands of other illusions.
There are zero chances of bursting that illusion bubble. Especially for those who have been snorting the bliss for 40 years.
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by:
RUN_FOREST_RUN
()
Date: March 08, 2023 04:10AM
The store in question was Westside Natural foods.
It was owned by Rama Ransons father. He has passed on. The mother lives in New Zealand and is involved heavily with he cult. Far as I know she lives on a property that was originally purchased as place for Bulter to stay. Rama's big revelation that he was ina cult came after he realized that when he was just a little child, his mother, on the order of butler, withheld giving him asthma medications because they were "drugs". He has since expossed many other seedy aspects of the cult here and elsewhere.
On Maui (where the store was), several families were key players in Butler's enterprises and also true seekers who were vilified by Butler when they found shiksha in another gaudiya vaishnava group. Families were torn apart and friendships fell apart not to mention existential threats. All because Butler got jealous and threw one of his famous tantrums.
Actually, the store was liquified and to my knowledge, a substantial portion went to Butler. Butler shamed Ramas family through letters and phone calls about not handing the biz over to him or giving him more money from it.
As far as the families affected there by the whole "shiksha" event, it was Mahabhagavata das (of down to Earth) and his family as well as other prominent disciples/followers. Some ended up leaving and taking initiation with the other guru. The other guru, one Turya das maharaj or whatever, was also a scum bag who slaved his disciples to buy him prime hawaii real estate for his little temple and one a week gathering of deluded souls.
Ian knows a lot about the group as his family was also deeply affected. He discusses this incident and others associated with the "shiksha guru" affair on this forum in many places.
Bhalakilya das seemed to always be a vagabond and ready to up and move where he was ended by Butler. I heard many businesses had him listed in some capacity and it really was not till the late 90s and early 2000s that he was given much respect as a "guru" type. Prior to that he was an "uncle" of sorts that showed up and many of the old timer Bhaktivednata butler crew knew him and seemed to enjoy shooting the shit with him. That is when they threw back near beers and did all that tulsi smoking bullshittery.
Butler devotees were always really into the narashingha avatar. I think they enjoyed the concept of a god that looses his shit and rips stuff apart. makes sense. Everyone was getting Narshinga tattoos and wearing jeans jackets with narashingh patches sown on the back like some sort of biker gang. It was actually pretty juvenile. I often wonder what bhaktisiddhanta would say if he met a modern day Butler devotee.
As far as the rumors spread regarding Butler and Tusta being Gaura Nitai incarmnations or whatever, Butler had put a stop to this. But the fact that his fanatical disciples even came up with the idea shows their total blind and retarded faith.
Culthusiast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Does anyone know what happened to the owners of
> this store in Lahaina referred in the quote? It is
> not on the list of stores of the "Down to Earth"
> network - apparently they did not transfer the
> store to the network. Are these people still in
> the cult?
>
> Do you know how connected Balakhilya das is with
> the "Down to Earth" network today? According to
> archival articles, he was associated, among
> others, with by Jiva Ltd. together with Moore.
It was owned by Rama Ransons father. He has passed on. The mother lives in New Zealand and is involved heavily with he cult. Far as I know she lives on a property that was originally purchased as place for Bulter to stay. Rama's big revelation that he was ina cult came after he realized that when he was just a little child, his mother, on the order of butler, withheld giving him asthma medications because they were "drugs". He has since expossed many other seedy aspects of the cult here and elsewhere.
On Maui (where the store was), several families were key players in Butler's enterprises and also true seekers who were vilified by Butler when they found shiksha in another gaudiya vaishnava group. Families were torn apart and friendships fell apart not to mention existential threats. All because Butler got jealous and threw one of his famous tantrums.
Actually, the store was liquified and to my knowledge, a substantial portion went to Butler. Butler shamed Ramas family through letters and phone calls about not handing the biz over to him or giving him more money from it.
As far as the families affected there by the whole "shiksha" event, it was Mahabhagavata das (of down to Earth) and his family as well as other prominent disciples/followers. Some ended up leaving and taking initiation with the other guru. The other guru, one Turya das maharaj or whatever, was also a scum bag who slaved his disciples to buy him prime hawaii real estate for his little temple and one a week gathering of deluded souls.
Ian knows a lot about the group as his family was also deeply affected. He discusses this incident and others associated with the "shiksha guru" affair on this forum in many places.
Bhalakilya das seemed to always be a vagabond and ready to up and move where he was ended by Butler. I heard many businesses had him listed in some capacity and it really was not till the late 90s and early 2000s that he was given much respect as a "guru" type. Prior to that he was an "uncle" of sorts that showed up and many of the old timer Bhaktivednata butler crew knew him and seemed to enjoy shooting the shit with him. That is when they threw back near beers and did all that tulsi smoking bullshittery.
Butler devotees were always really into the narashingha avatar. I think they enjoyed the concept of a god that looses his shit and rips stuff apart. makes sense. Everyone was getting Narshinga tattoos and wearing jeans jackets with narashingh patches sown on the back like some sort of biker gang. It was actually pretty juvenile. I often wonder what bhaktisiddhanta would say if he met a modern day Butler devotee.
As far as the rumors spread regarding Butler and Tusta being Gaura Nitai incarmnations or whatever, Butler had put a stop to this. But the fact that his fanatical disciples even came up with the idea shows their total blind and retarded faith.
Culthusiast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>Quote
Are those assholes still running that store
> in Lahaina, why don’t they give it to DTE,
> assholes--- and they call themselves my disciples
> make all kinds of money while their kids skate and
> surf, assholes, they should give it to me
> Does anyone know what happened to the owners of
> this store in Lahaina referred in the quote? It is
> not on the list of stores of the "Down to Earth"
> network - apparently they did not transfer the
> store to the network. Are these people still in
> the cult?
>
> Do you know how connected Balakhilya das is with
> the "Down to Earth" network today? According to
> archival articles, he was associated, among
> others, with by Jiva Ltd. together with Moore.
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by:
Culthusiast
()
Date: March 08, 2023 04:12AM
Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In all my years of being part of SoI I never heard
> of butler and muncie being the incarnation of
> NitaiGaur.
It is very important whether these words of Balakhilya dasa have been registered. As possibly another pebble-proof of methodical legend-making. On a practical level, however, there's this picture of Chris Butler in a gold suit and David Muncie, whose look and expression seem to say, "yeah, that gold number is pretty good."
> Devotees cannot do drugs, smoke, gamble, have
> material fun…. Beliefs and spiritual bliss is all
> they can trip on.
You can see different profiles on Facebook or Instagram. You can see, for example, the focus on surfing. Someone is cheating because you can see the deep attention and enjoyment of surfing. As a sport or for health, it is not bad in itself and can be beneficial in itself, but here it is an example of attachment and concentration - confronting it with philosophy - accepted or not.
Or the example of the marriage of Japa das and Agnipathi dasi. It is an attachment to material glitz. It blows emptiness.
> When you go very deep into the rabbit hole, you
> realize that you have been sold a huge amount of
> lies mixed with some truths.
An offer of life insurance, guaranteed exclusive salvation, and a sense of worth based on belonging to the one true religious group.
> So those who have a firm belief in the gita,
> bible, koran… have some peace in their hearts.
> They believe that everything in this clown show
> makes perfect sense. Why? Because and all powerful
> lord and master god is in control.
In my case, I countered the feelings in the cult with experiences, e.g. from nature, the beauty of nature, peace, energies and moods that accompany it, or contact with religious, good people, and the conclusion was that in the cult it is of a lower nature. Much less subtle, darker, predatory relationships, fanaticism, etc.
For example, rock kirtans have now appeared on YT. These are the symptoms of turning on rock climates with a reference to faith and the lyrics are a mantra. It looks more like a group shot. Someone likes it. Between rock concerts and religious cries in church. Dynamism, etc. But these are not moods such as forest, idyllic from Vrindavan, etc. Just a rock party with mantras.
> If I know chant the maha mantra, it has almost no
> effect on me.
> But when my faith was strong, I would enter a
> diferent dimension emotionally closing my eyes.
> This is why I was so addcited to it.
In fact, some Gaudiya gurus would praise You.
> She also wants to hammer that belief into ther
> people’s heads. If you don’t enjoy life on earth,
> you are seen as a person who plays victim.
It is some kind of narrative. But it's easy to overthrow it. How is a little black woman supposed to enjoy life, whose mother was raped by armed thieves of UN aid, the shaman ordered a mutilator and the kid runs around with bones on top because he suffers from notorious hunger.
> There is nothing more humbling than realizing we
> don’t know anything about anything.
Or maybe a good place to start. It's fair to say - SIF option passed honestly, with effort, effort, chanting 12/16 rounds a day (when sanyasi say 64 minimum), 20 years of service, giving donations - we are nowhere... nowhere...
On the other hand, we remember the Gita - "Everyone follows my path in all respects". Okay, that's light. I'm letting go of the sect, I'm not too immersed in mundane activities because they are boring anyway and the traumas were liberating enough...
> Noone can stop the natural evolution or progress
> of the individual soul.
> When you are carefully watched in the high
> security SOI mental hospital/prison, you are
> obligated to act and speak a certain way.
SIF is more of a business-hospital than a hospital itself. They pointed out the business nature of SoI/SiF sanyasis outside the cult. Finally, in the Bhagavatam, the 6th canto speaks of the glorious death of a yogi or soldier. Not a businessman. Jesus was amazed at the centurion's attitude. But he also mentioned the rich and the eye of a needle. SoI/SIF, on the other hand, is persistently focused on business. With Joseph Bismark - just read the QNET controversy. His "more and more" is some kind of madness or obsession with so many victims. Even fatwas have been issued by Muslims against QNET.
> Those poor souls would not even be able to
> recognize a pure soul. Because all that counts is
> the external.
Pure soul in its chemical-electrical-network nervous system and the body it needs to eat, eats various vegetables and fruits so the chemistry reacts as you can see by the process at night and you can believe in ekadasi but expanding etc...
> How much service, money, time… can you offer? Who
> gives one single damn about your pure heart?
Give it to Eswaran and Bismark. To keep going. The pandemic will end so the list of controversies will continue beyond just 2019. More defrauded, more victims, more invested than $258 million in Malaysia. More, more...
> It is about pleasing/serving a rather unstable
> master and his mindless minions.
A guru whom some have never seen. And they have been serving, for example, in Poland faithfully since 1993, i.e. 3 decades. They didn't get initiated. They didn't ask 1 question.
Yet the Gita says "ask humbly and serve faithfully." They skipped the questions. What is convenient for such a Midget. What are tricky questions for...
> It is not about purification. You actually get
> even more infected in that group.
These are the symptoms. The energy in the group is an amalgam of MLM, business, parties, some stains, most likely LSD, marijuana. Like Buddhist defilements. Recruitment by stain and concepts. An offer of insurance and salvation. With some benefit of rising above your ego. Don't think about the ego. Think of a guru. And money for gurus along with new sheep.
This will effectively protect you from the effects of your own direct egotism. With different results, because when an attractive sif-bhaktina or sif-bhakta appears in a fit of emptiness, it can end up in sex....
Kids. Kids. Like the Active Child Aid project. One of the activists, the mother, fought so bravely in the project - a very attractive woman and her husband too - both initiated - that the family fell apart. What a paradox... What did it take? devotional service? Not enough mantras? sex? personal charm? Tell me why...
Tell me why Babylon like they said...
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2023 04:15AM by Culthusiast.
-------------------------------------------------------
> In all my years of being part of SoI I never heard
> of butler and muncie being the incarnation of
> NitaiGaur.
It is very important whether these words of Balakhilya dasa have been registered. As possibly another pebble-proof of methodical legend-making. On a practical level, however, there's this picture of Chris Butler in a gold suit and David Muncie, whose look and expression seem to say, "yeah, that gold number is pretty good."
> Devotees cannot do drugs, smoke, gamble, have
> material fun…. Beliefs and spiritual bliss is all
> they can trip on.
You can see different profiles on Facebook or Instagram. You can see, for example, the focus on surfing. Someone is cheating because you can see the deep attention and enjoyment of surfing. As a sport or for health, it is not bad in itself and can be beneficial in itself, but here it is an example of attachment and concentration - confronting it with philosophy - accepted or not.
Or the example of the marriage of Japa das and Agnipathi dasi. It is an attachment to material glitz. It blows emptiness.
> When you go very deep into the rabbit hole, you
> realize that you have been sold a huge amount of
> lies mixed with some truths.
An offer of life insurance, guaranteed exclusive salvation, and a sense of worth based on belonging to the one true religious group.
> So those who have a firm belief in the gita,
> bible, koran… have some peace in their hearts.
> They believe that everything in this clown show
> makes perfect sense. Why? Because and all powerful
> lord and master god is in control.
In my case, I countered the feelings in the cult with experiences, e.g. from nature, the beauty of nature, peace, energies and moods that accompany it, or contact with religious, good people, and the conclusion was that in the cult it is of a lower nature. Much less subtle, darker, predatory relationships, fanaticism, etc.
For example, rock kirtans have now appeared on YT. These are the symptoms of turning on rock climates with a reference to faith and the lyrics are a mantra. It looks more like a group shot. Someone likes it. Between rock concerts and religious cries in church. Dynamism, etc. But these are not moods such as forest, idyllic from Vrindavan, etc. Just a rock party with mantras.
> If I know chant the maha mantra, it has almost no
> effect on me.
> But when my faith was strong, I would enter a
> diferent dimension emotionally closing my eyes.
> This is why I was so addcited to it.
In fact, some Gaudiya gurus would praise You.
> She also wants to hammer that belief into ther
> people’s heads. If you don’t enjoy life on earth,
> you are seen as a person who plays victim.
It is some kind of narrative. But it's easy to overthrow it. How is a little black woman supposed to enjoy life, whose mother was raped by armed thieves of UN aid, the shaman ordered a mutilator and the kid runs around with bones on top because he suffers from notorious hunger.
> There is nothing more humbling than realizing we
> don’t know anything about anything.
Or maybe a good place to start. It's fair to say - SIF option passed honestly, with effort, effort, chanting 12/16 rounds a day (when sanyasi say 64 minimum), 20 years of service, giving donations - we are nowhere... nowhere...
On the other hand, we remember the Gita - "Everyone follows my path in all respects". Okay, that's light. I'm letting go of the sect, I'm not too immersed in mundane activities because they are boring anyway and the traumas were liberating enough...
> Noone can stop the natural evolution or progress
> of the individual soul.
> When you are carefully watched in the high
> security SOI mental hospital/prison, you are
> obligated to act and speak a certain way.
SIF is more of a business-hospital than a hospital itself. They pointed out the business nature of SoI/SiF sanyasis outside the cult. Finally, in the Bhagavatam, the 6th canto speaks of the glorious death of a yogi or soldier. Not a businessman. Jesus was amazed at the centurion's attitude. But he also mentioned the rich and the eye of a needle. SoI/SIF, on the other hand, is persistently focused on business. With Joseph Bismark - just read the QNET controversy. His "more and more" is some kind of madness or obsession with so many victims. Even fatwas have been issued by Muslims against QNET.
> Those poor souls would not even be able to
> recognize a pure soul. Because all that counts is
> the external.
Pure soul in its chemical-electrical-network nervous system and the body it needs to eat, eats various vegetables and fruits so the chemistry reacts as you can see by the process at night and you can believe in ekadasi but expanding etc...
> How much service, money, time… can you offer? Who
> gives one single damn about your pure heart?
Give it to Eswaran and Bismark. To keep going. The pandemic will end so the list of controversies will continue beyond just 2019. More defrauded, more victims, more invested than $258 million in Malaysia. More, more...
> It is about pleasing/serving a rather unstable
> master and his mindless minions.
A guru whom some have never seen. And they have been serving, for example, in Poland faithfully since 1993, i.e. 3 decades. They didn't get initiated. They didn't ask 1 question.
Yet the Gita says "ask humbly and serve faithfully." They skipped the questions. What is convenient for such a Midget. What are tricky questions for...
> It is not about purification. You actually get
> even more infected in that group.
These are the symptoms. The energy in the group is an amalgam of MLM, business, parties, some stains, most likely LSD, marijuana. Like Buddhist defilements. Recruitment by stain and concepts. An offer of insurance and salvation. With some benefit of rising above your ego. Don't think about the ego. Think of a guru. And money for gurus along with new sheep.
This will effectively protect you from the effects of your own direct egotism. With different results, because when an attractive sif-bhaktina or sif-bhakta appears in a fit of emptiness, it can end up in sex....
Kids. Kids. Like the Active Child Aid project. One of the activists, the mother, fought so bravely in the project - a very attractive woman and her husband too - both initiated - that the family fell apart. What a paradox... What did it take? devotional service? Not enough mantras? sex? personal charm? Tell me why...
Tell me why Babylon like they said...
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2023 04:15AM by Culthusiast.
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by:
RUN_FOREST_RUN
()
Date: March 08, 2023 04:32AM
The store in question was Westside Natural foods.
It was owned by Rama Ransons father. He has passed on. The mother lives in New Zealand and is involved heavily with he cult. Far as I know she lives on a property that was originally purchased as place for Bulter to stay. Rama's big revelation that he was ina cult came after he realized that when he was just a little child, his mother, on the order of butler, withheld giving him asthma medications because they were "drugs". He has since expossed many other seedy aspects of the cult here and elsewhere.
On Maui (where the store was), several families were key players in Butler's enterprises and also true seekers who were vilified by Butler when they found shiksha in another gaudiya vaishnava group. Families were torn apart and friendships fell apart not to mention existential threats. All because Butler got jealous and threw one of his famous tantrums.
Actually, the store was liquified and to my knowledge, a substantial portion went to Butler. Butler shamed Ramas family through letters and phone calls about not handing the biz over to him or giving him more money from it.
As far as the families affected there by the whole "shiksha" event, it was Mahabhagavata das (of down to Earth) and his family as well as other prominent disciples/followers. Some ended up leaving and taking initiation with the other guru. The other guru, one Turya das maharaj or whatever, was also a scum bag who slaved his disciples to buy him prime hawaii real estate for his little temple and one a week gathering of deluded souls.
Ian knows a lot about the group as his family was also deeply affected. He discusses this incident and others associated with the "shiksha guru" affair on this forum in many places.
Bhalakilya das seemed to always be a vagabond and ready to up and move where he was ended by Butler. I heard many businesses had him listed in some capacity and it really was not till the late 90s and early 2000s that he was given much respect as a "guru" type. Prior to that he was an "uncle" of sorts that showed up and many of the old timer Bhaktivednata butler crew knew him and seemed to enjoy shooting the shit with him. That is when they threw back near beers and did all that tulsi smoking bullshittery.
Butler devotees were always really into the narashingha avatar. I think they enjoyed the concept of a god that looses his shit and rips stuff apart. makes sense. Everyone was getting Narshinga tattoos and wearing jeans jackets with narashingh patches sown on the back like some sort of biker gang. It was actually pretty juvenile. I often wonder what bhaktisiddhanta would say if he met a modern day Butler devotee.
As far as the rumors spread regarding Butler and Tusta being Gaura Nitai incarnations or whatever, Butler had put a stop to this. But the fact that his fanatical disciples even came up with the idea shows their total blind and retarded faith.
RUN.
It was owned by Rama Ransons father. He has passed on. The mother lives in New Zealand and is involved heavily with he cult. Far as I know she lives on a property that was originally purchased as place for Bulter to stay. Rama's big revelation that he was ina cult came after he realized that when he was just a little child, his mother, on the order of butler, withheld giving him asthma medications because they were "drugs". He has since expossed many other seedy aspects of the cult here and elsewhere.
On Maui (where the store was), several families were key players in Butler's enterprises and also true seekers who were vilified by Butler when they found shiksha in another gaudiya vaishnava group. Families were torn apart and friendships fell apart not to mention existential threats. All because Butler got jealous and threw one of his famous tantrums.
Actually, the store was liquified and to my knowledge, a substantial portion went to Butler. Butler shamed Ramas family through letters and phone calls about not handing the biz over to him or giving him more money from it.
As far as the families affected there by the whole "shiksha" event, it was Mahabhagavata das (of down to Earth) and his family as well as other prominent disciples/followers. Some ended up leaving and taking initiation with the other guru. The other guru, one Turya das maharaj or whatever, was also a scum bag who slaved his disciples to buy him prime hawaii real estate for his little temple and one a week gathering of deluded souls.
Ian knows a lot about the group as his family was also deeply affected. He discusses this incident and others associated with the "shiksha guru" affair on this forum in many places.
Bhalakilya das seemed to always be a vagabond and ready to up and move where he was ended by Butler. I heard many businesses had him listed in some capacity and it really was not till the late 90s and early 2000s that he was given much respect as a "guru" type. Prior to that he was an "uncle" of sorts that showed up and many of the old timer Bhaktivednata butler crew knew him and seemed to enjoy shooting the shit with him. That is when they threw back near beers and did all that tulsi smoking bullshittery.
Butler devotees were always really into the narashingha avatar. I think they enjoyed the concept of a god that looses his shit and rips stuff apart. makes sense. Everyone was getting Narshinga tattoos and wearing jeans jackets with narashingh patches sown on the back like some sort of biker gang. It was actually pretty juvenile. I often wonder what bhaktisiddhanta would say if he met a modern day Butler devotee.
As far as the rumors spread regarding Butler and Tusta being Gaura Nitai incarnations or whatever, Butler had put a stop to this. But the fact that his fanatical disciples even came up with the idea shows their total blind and retarded faith.
RUN.
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by:
RUN_FOREST_RUN
()
Date: March 08, 2023 04:36AM
On the topic of violence:
What with its main holy book being centered around a religious war and
pretty much every purana exploring violence and justifying it:
Prasurama, the serial killing avatar, Narashimha—the atheist eating god,
chaitanya ready to crack the skulls of alcoholic brothers
(Jagai/madhai), is it any wonder
[qz.com]
Never mind the pastimes of krishna riddled with violence and inciting violence whenever possible. Talk about an avatar that didn't know how to use his peaceful words to solve issues...
Never mind its unstoppable problem with rape, women abuse and religious
intolerance of anyone that does not worship 4 headed, four armed, monkey
and elephant gods or the humble cow...
You would think a country that was walked on by the lord in all his many
incarnations and is "flooded" with the chanting of the "holy name" would
have a lot less social ills. You know, since mantras are so powerful...
But alas, the power of the lord somehow can't infiltrate human
ignorance. It can't cure Butlers phobias, tin foil addiction and lust
for power...
The lord in all his glory sure as shit did ISKCON no favors. Gaudiya
math is pretty much unheard of... In less than 100 years,
Bhaktisiddhnatas "glorious" movement is barely recognizable as anything
he had hoped to create. Bhakta dating sites, Instagram gurus and fancy
temples in paradise open to the yoga/hindu shmindu seeker of baloney.
Meanwhile, Butler, Gabbard, SIF and all these other organizations have
done little to nothing for social welfare, spiritual seekers and
philosophical consideration. They have filled the world with
mythological storybooks they try to peddle as unadulterated absolute
truth. How is that different from any other religious faith? Is there
any offering of theirs that is really unique?
Think about it. To the average Gaudya, their naive conception of what
"goloka" is, is just as simplistic as the Christian heaven. Everyone
just feels good, is eternaly young and all the animals live in peace.
Like all other faiths, he who makes the biggest show of their spiritual
life is awarded the most accolades and attention.
Like Tusta et al, there is always a faction of followers touted as important and pure. Assess what qualities make them such and money and followers is close behind...
Sit in a hare krishna class or event. Ask yourself after you leave if the interactions and things that you heard and rituals that you witnessed had any real profound effect on you or left you with more questions than answers and a general sense of confusion about your life. I barter it's the latter and that's what they hope too, because the only solution to the conundrum is to show up again next week. And that is exactly how cults work. They don't offer any meaningful construct or system but rather the system is in the very Act of continuing to do the very things that leave people mindless and more confused.
When I went to my first Beach kirtans in Malibu as a child it was really the first time that I had witnessed such an intense paranoia, fear and confusion at the arrival of Chris Butler with his awkward wife. Don't mistake a sense of oddness for happiness and bliss. That is the same type of logic that a drug addict uses when they are high on some kind of psychedelic or other drug that confuses their state of mind but yet they experience enough Bliss and happiness associated with it that they just keep coming back even though it makes no sense to do so whatsoever.
Consider for a second, if you believe in god, why would such a completely existential incredible Force give a rats ass about temples being built in their name and souls all of a sudden realizing that they're stuck in some kind of illusory Network and they need to get out? What would be the purpose of this. If it is beyond reason and purpose and it is simply some kind of cosmic love. Consider this as well. Is not love a human construct? Anything that one knows about the concept requires a human brain. It requires the complexity of language to describe it. Did ancient humans love in the same way that people love during the Renaissance and medieval times or the Victorian era or the enlightenment or even modern day love? Of course not. It's a highly subjective construct that evolves with time and is a completely human fiction. Regardless of its pleasantry and seeming necessity. Is love needed for any process that you can conceive of in the universe? It certainly not needed for birth. People have senseless and affectionless sex all the time. Certainly on a molecular level there is nothing that we can observe that has the definition of what we consider to be love. The all-loving being makes it pretty much impossible to love. Creating a world that cock blocks your attempt at every turn from knowing "him", it's a miracle anyone even believes in god any more. That's the real miracle. Millions of years of evolution and humans have not figured out who god is, where he is, and what good is he for? Rapes, storms, earthquakes and murders? His "holy name" sure as shit has not changed the ebb and flow at all. And we all know the definition of insanity... chant on your beads till you become blue in the face.
Devotees like to claim that the love they preach about is of a transcendental type. Whatever that means. And of course, one can never verify or really know what that kind of love is or how it is shown. In fact, it can be argued that so-called Western transcendentalism made its way into India right about the time that bhaktivinode takur and his son were writing and preaching. It was definitely a catchphrase that took deep root in the devotee community. As I've stated before cults operate on a series of linguistic terms that are only used within the cult. Same thing with a preoccupation with pastoral romanticism. One can find its roots in all sorts of Village religions throughout India in the Middle East all the way into China and Mongolia. Never mind the growing pastoral romanticism present in medieval Christianity and many other faiths.
Prior to the composition of the srimad bhagavatam there was really no Radha and Krishna cult in India. So, at some point this sect arose as a poetic fascination that took hold in the political and public consciousness. No real veda mentions krishna, hardly vishnu, let alone their supremacy. At least not the main core for Vedas that so-called dharmic sastra's adhere to and make Allegiance and claims as being a part of. Never mind the bogus text that were written by more contemporary gaudia vaishnavacharya's with bold claims that the ideology belongs to the veda. Nothing could be further from the truth. They are propaganda and promotional pamphlets at best in comparison to early upanishadic texts.
Do you see any contemporary gaudiya guru trying to give purports and interpretations on the vedas? Of course not. Because it would be impossible and arduous to tie it to their scriptures in any way whatsoever. Trying to connect the dots of the Rig veda to the Bhagavatam is a giant mental leap. all the characters and their roles have changed and any semblance of the original is a mighty mighty long leap with the most crooked lines and haphazard dots connecting it.
Again, I do not think that it's at all problematic for the people of India to practice their native faiths (questionable what good it's done them if any, ever). After all it's their cultural roots and much of the history of the country is so grandfathered in and baked in with these gods and goddesses and stories that it's not really worth the work to convince them otherwise. I can't say what load of good it has done them from a historical perspective. I have yet to meet anyone who has any kind of impressive enlightened qualities. All that aside, anyone who is culturally appropriating Hinduism as a western person is just playing an eclectic and exotic game with their ego. At best they are modern-day pagans who still believe in the rain being the domain of some God and enjoy stretching and calling it "yoga".
Brahman is what most Hindus believe to be the highest Devine force. They feel it is all-pervading and the one truth like Tao and Yin yang. Because this is largely intangible, humans make God's so it becomes more relatable conceptually. But at it's core, this is what most Indian philosophical spiritual systems promote. This is at the heart fo what makes eastern faiths so appealing. They do not try to force some naive idea of some specific way that god looks or what god does or where we are going after we die. It is about a universal acceptance that all that is, is god. And that we respect that and try to feel that. Not that we run around some plant, chant x amount of rounds and follow some tin foil guru. Not that god is blue had a hot girlfriend and likes cattle. When people speak of sanatana dharma or the universal appeal of these eastern faiths it is hinged on brahman and the universal appeal of that. Not on it's plethora of gods and demons and stories. This is a more recent occurrence in history as people became more verbose and language and writing evolved. People made up stories and wrote poems.
Read the stories. But be realistic. They are parables to teach lessons not much unlike the mechanism of any fairy tale. It's there to encapsulate a moral and ethical consideration. To highlight paradoxes and to offer insight. It's not that snow white and her seven dwarves are real. Any more than Shrek.
Run along now!
[jacobin.com]
[www.nepalitimes.com]
[religionnews.com]
[www.bbc.com]
[www.dharmadispatch.in]
What with its main holy book being centered around a religious war and
pretty much every purana exploring violence and justifying it:
Prasurama, the serial killing avatar, Narashimha—the atheist eating god,
chaitanya ready to crack the skulls of alcoholic brothers
(Jagai/madhai), is it any wonder
[qz.com]
Never mind the pastimes of krishna riddled with violence and inciting violence whenever possible. Talk about an avatar that didn't know how to use his peaceful words to solve issues...
Never mind its unstoppable problem with rape, women abuse and religious
intolerance of anyone that does not worship 4 headed, four armed, monkey
and elephant gods or the humble cow...
You would think a country that was walked on by the lord in all his many
incarnations and is "flooded" with the chanting of the "holy name" would
have a lot less social ills. You know, since mantras are so powerful...
But alas, the power of the lord somehow can't infiltrate human
ignorance. It can't cure Butlers phobias, tin foil addiction and lust
for power...
The lord in all his glory sure as shit did ISKCON no favors. Gaudiya
math is pretty much unheard of... In less than 100 years,
Bhaktisiddhnatas "glorious" movement is barely recognizable as anything
he had hoped to create. Bhakta dating sites, Instagram gurus and fancy
temples in paradise open to the yoga/hindu shmindu seeker of baloney.
Meanwhile, Butler, Gabbard, SIF and all these other organizations have
done little to nothing for social welfare, spiritual seekers and
philosophical consideration. They have filled the world with
mythological storybooks they try to peddle as unadulterated absolute
truth. How is that different from any other religious faith? Is there
any offering of theirs that is really unique?
Think about it. To the average Gaudya, their naive conception of what
"goloka" is, is just as simplistic as the Christian heaven. Everyone
just feels good, is eternaly young and all the animals live in peace.
Like all other faiths, he who makes the biggest show of their spiritual
life is awarded the most accolades and attention.
Like Tusta et al, there is always a faction of followers touted as important and pure. Assess what qualities make them such and money and followers is close behind...
Sit in a hare krishna class or event. Ask yourself after you leave if the interactions and things that you heard and rituals that you witnessed had any real profound effect on you or left you with more questions than answers and a general sense of confusion about your life. I barter it's the latter and that's what they hope too, because the only solution to the conundrum is to show up again next week. And that is exactly how cults work. They don't offer any meaningful construct or system but rather the system is in the very Act of continuing to do the very things that leave people mindless and more confused.
When I went to my first Beach kirtans in Malibu as a child it was really the first time that I had witnessed such an intense paranoia, fear and confusion at the arrival of Chris Butler with his awkward wife. Don't mistake a sense of oddness for happiness and bliss. That is the same type of logic that a drug addict uses when they are high on some kind of psychedelic or other drug that confuses their state of mind but yet they experience enough Bliss and happiness associated with it that they just keep coming back even though it makes no sense to do so whatsoever.
Consider for a second, if you believe in god, why would such a completely existential incredible Force give a rats ass about temples being built in their name and souls all of a sudden realizing that they're stuck in some kind of illusory Network and they need to get out? What would be the purpose of this. If it is beyond reason and purpose and it is simply some kind of cosmic love. Consider this as well. Is not love a human construct? Anything that one knows about the concept requires a human brain. It requires the complexity of language to describe it. Did ancient humans love in the same way that people love during the Renaissance and medieval times or the Victorian era or the enlightenment or even modern day love? Of course not. It's a highly subjective construct that evolves with time and is a completely human fiction. Regardless of its pleasantry and seeming necessity. Is love needed for any process that you can conceive of in the universe? It certainly not needed for birth. People have senseless and affectionless sex all the time. Certainly on a molecular level there is nothing that we can observe that has the definition of what we consider to be love. The all-loving being makes it pretty much impossible to love. Creating a world that cock blocks your attempt at every turn from knowing "him", it's a miracle anyone even believes in god any more. That's the real miracle. Millions of years of evolution and humans have not figured out who god is, where he is, and what good is he for? Rapes, storms, earthquakes and murders? His "holy name" sure as shit has not changed the ebb and flow at all. And we all know the definition of insanity... chant on your beads till you become blue in the face.
Devotees like to claim that the love they preach about is of a transcendental type. Whatever that means. And of course, one can never verify or really know what that kind of love is or how it is shown. In fact, it can be argued that so-called Western transcendentalism made its way into India right about the time that bhaktivinode takur and his son were writing and preaching. It was definitely a catchphrase that took deep root in the devotee community. As I've stated before cults operate on a series of linguistic terms that are only used within the cult. Same thing with a preoccupation with pastoral romanticism. One can find its roots in all sorts of Village religions throughout India in the Middle East all the way into China and Mongolia. Never mind the growing pastoral romanticism present in medieval Christianity and many other faiths.
Prior to the composition of the srimad bhagavatam there was really no Radha and Krishna cult in India. So, at some point this sect arose as a poetic fascination that took hold in the political and public consciousness. No real veda mentions krishna, hardly vishnu, let alone their supremacy. At least not the main core for Vedas that so-called dharmic sastra's adhere to and make Allegiance and claims as being a part of. Never mind the bogus text that were written by more contemporary gaudia vaishnavacharya's with bold claims that the ideology belongs to the veda. Nothing could be further from the truth. They are propaganda and promotional pamphlets at best in comparison to early upanishadic texts.
Do you see any contemporary gaudiya guru trying to give purports and interpretations on the vedas? Of course not. Because it would be impossible and arduous to tie it to their scriptures in any way whatsoever. Trying to connect the dots of the Rig veda to the Bhagavatam is a giant mental leap. all the characters and their roles have changed and any semblance of the original is a mighty mighty long leap with the most crooked lines and haphazard dots connecting it.
Again, I do not think that it's at all problematic for the people of India to practice their native faiths (questionable what good it's done them if any, ever). After all it's their cultural roots and much of the history of the country is so grandfathered in and baked in with these gods and goddesses and stories that it's not really worth the work to convince them otherwise. I can't say what load of good it has done them from a historical perspective. I have yet to meet anyone who has any kind of impressive enlightened qualities. All that aside, anyone who is culturally appropriating Hinduism as a western person is just playing an eclectic and exotic game with their ego. At best they are modern-day pagans who still believe in the rain being the domain of some God and enjoy stretching and calling it "yoga".
Brahman is what most Hindus believe to be the highest Devine force. They feel it is all-pervading and the one truth like Tao and Yin yang. Because this is largely intangible, humans make God's so it becomes more relatable conceptually. But at it's core, this is what most Indian philosophical spiritual systems promote. This is at the heart fo what makes eastern faiths so appealing. They do not try to force some naive idea of some specific way that god looks or what god does or where we are going after we die. It is about a universal acceptance that all that is, is god. And that we respect that and try to feel that. Not that we run around some plant, chant x amount of rounds and follow some tin foil guru. Not that god is blue had a hot girlfriend and likes cattle. When people speak of sanatana dharma or the universal appeal of these eastern faiths it is hinged on brahman and the universal appeal of that. Not on it's plethora of gods and demons and stories. This is a more recent occurrence in history as people became more verbose and language and writing evolved. People made up stories and wrote poems.
Read the stories. But be realistic. They are parables to teach lessons not much unlike the mechanism of any fairy tale. It's there to encapsulate a moral and ethical consideration. To highlight paradoxes and to offer insight. It's not that snow white and her seven dwarves are real. Any more than Shrek.
Run along now!
[jacobin.com]
[www.nepalitimes.com]
[religionnews.com]
[www.bbc.com]
[www.dharmadispatch.in]
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by:
RUN_FOREST_RUN
()
Date: March 08, 2023 05:08AM
A country that has no systems in place to care for conditions of poverty is a country that exerts the highest form of violence upon its own people. A country that puts fictitious religious concerns and mythology ahead of rational and scientific thought and consideration for the welfare of its people is a country that exerts the highest form of violence upon its own citizens. Any country, but in this case I am discussing India since devotees love to claim allegiance that their grand systems of knowledge comes from India... That they are "hindus".
Vedic scriptures are grossly redundant and highly repetitive and formulaic. They offer no clarity as to the final goal, they do not come to any sort of rational consideration or agreement about the final goal and ultimately out of thousands of verses spanning one of the largest so-called spiritual and religious systems in the world, it offers no consensus as to the goal of human life, the purpose of life, and anything of more substance than any other religious system in the world. Its most significant crime is that it accomplishes all this nothingness with thousands of garbled and redundant verses that not a single person can shed any kind of rational light on. Both contemporary and historic Scholars of so-called Vedic philosophy and thought have come up was absolutely nothing of substance. You can encapsulate the basic ideology of Vedic thought in one or two sentences and even that is doing it too much Justice.
Concepts like karma, reincarnation, souls, gods and goddesses, heavens and hells and so forth are no more enlightening or transcendental than what is present in absolutely every single religious or spiritual system in the world. There is nothing you need about the idea of a soul that is embodied and there is nothing you need about the idea of material versus a spiritual world or Heaven and there is nothing profound about ideologies of Good and Evil and human sin. There is nothing even unique about chanting and singing a God's glory as a form of worship. These kinds of things are even done in atheistic philosophies like Jainism and Buddhism.
Any religious system that has some sort of naive ideology concerning sexuality, family life, sex and the repression or renunciation of something as biological and naturalistically sound as sex is directly responsible for the enormous amount of sexual perversion and frustration as well as ultimately things like rape and so forth. The fact of the matter is that most of these kinds of transgressions that deal with sexuality in the world have always had a religious underpinning. You will always find some sort of pervert out there who is attacking people having their origin of thinking and aberration directly related to religious ideologies that vilify sexuality. That is a fact and can be shown statistically.
Teaching young men and women about respectful sexual relationships as well as how to communicate and relate to one another as humans sharing an Earthly experience is a lot more fruitful than the majority of garbage that children learn in religious contexts. Me and my God Brothers sitting and suffering through Chris Butler's lecture rants did nothing for us in terms of bettering our ability to forge healthy relationships in the future and raise families.
Butler's dysfunctional marriage to his own disciple who already had children from a godbrother of his as well as his example of how he treated his wife when he was with her and even now when she is obviously on her own (spreading her Plastic Ono Band cheer) and they are absolutely not together in any rational marriage construct, left nothing but a horrible example for any of his householder followers as well as subsequent Generations of children.
Ironically, sex is touted in the cult as only being good for procreation. This is of course idiotic and nowhere to be found in nature is sex only used for procreation. Sex is pleasurable and has been used for the simple function of making the human experience more interesting.
All that aside, did Krishna, with his 16,108 wives and extramarital gopi affairs have sex only for procreation (you know, with his transcendental penis)? Did he raise his kids in Krishna Consciousness and to chant hare krishna all day? What type of consciousness were his thousands of offspring raised in? Did Arjuna and Bhisma and Hanuman chant Hare Krishna all day? Shiva, the so-called greates pot smoking Vaishnava is literally immortalized as a giant cosmic penis in his most popular worshiped form as a dick and yoni. It's kind of silly to think that all these faiths are riddled with sexuality issues. No one ever thought that perhaps there is a more rational and ethical way to weave sex-life into the equation. The result? bhakti couples fucking each other while not making any visual contact while chanting hare krishna. That my friend is fucked up stupidity at its very very finest.
And, this leads me to my final point in all of this:
Butler's guru's organization is still riddled with sex abuse. As it was when the swami was alive n kickin, so it is today:
[www.facebook.com]
[www.facebook.com]
40 years of prabhupadas grand society amounting to a pedophile ring. And they protect it. And mayapur of all places, their so-called "mecca" invented by Bhaktivinod and Bhaktisiddhanta as the epicenter of their cult leader, the epileptic saint Chaitanya—scholar with no scholarly works left behind.
And for the record, Butler getting involved in his follower's marriage/partner choices and criticizing his disciple's sexuality and partner choices IS SEX ABUSE. Butler's lectures describing fringe homosexual acts or bestiality or any paraphilia to underage kids through many lectures and letters IS SEX ABUSE.
And for the record on this forum, Butler used to have his followers, my godbrothers, like Nitai Bishop, infiltrate gay sex clubs to get info about assorted sex acts and going-on in such places. Why? Did krishna want Butler to do that? You know, since Butler is under the direct direction of the lord, one can only ask, what the fuck?!
We know a fraction on this forum of the true depth of depravity, crimes and cult tactics that Burtler and his minions use. A FRACTION.
RUN PEOPLE.
Vedic scriptures are grossly redundant and highly repetitive and formulaic. They offer no clarity as to the final goal, they do not come to any sort of rational consideration or agreement about the final goal and ultimately out of thousands of verses spanning one of the largest so-called spiritual and religious systems in the world, it offers no consensus as to the goal of human life, the purpose of life, and anything of more substance than any other religious system in the world. Its most significant crime is that it accomplishes all this nothingness with thousands of garbled and redundant verses that not a single person can shed any kind of rational light on. Both contemporary and historic Scholars of so-called Vedic philosophy and thought have come up was absolutely nothing of substance. You can encapsulate the basic ideology of Vedic thought in one or two sentences and even that is doing it too much Justice.
Concepts like karma, reincarnation, souls, gods and goddesses, heavens and hells and so forth are no more enlightening or transcendental than what is present in absolutely every single religious or spiritual system in the world. There is nothing you need about the idea of a soul that is embodied and there is nothing you need about the idea of material versus a spiritual world or Heaven and there is nothing profound about ideologies of Good and Evil and human sin. There is nothing even unique about chanting and singing a God's glory as a form of worship. These kinds of things are even done in atheistic philosophies like Jainism and Buddhism.
Any religious system that has some sort of naive ideology concerning sexuality, family life, sex and the repression or renunciation of something as biological and naturalistically sound as sex is directly responsible for the enormous amount of sexual perversion and frustration as well as ultimately things like rape and so forth. The fact of the matter is that most of these kinds of transgressions that deal with sexuality in the world have always had a religious underpinning. You will always find some sort of pervert out there who is attacking people having their origin of thinking and aberration directly related to religious ideologies that vilify sexuality. That is a fact and can be shown statistically.
Teaching young men and women about respectful sexual relationships as well as how to communicate and relate to one another as humans sharing an Earthly experience is a lot more fruitful than the majority of garbage that children learn in religious contexts. Me and my God Brothers sitting and suffering through Chris Butler's lecture rants did nothing for us in terms of bettering our ability to forge healthy relationships in the future and raise families.
Butler's dysfunctional marriage to his own disciple who already had children from a godbrother of his as well as his example of how he treated his wife when he was with her and even now when she is obviously on her own (spreading her Plastic Ono Band cheer) and they are absolutely not together in any rational marriage construct, left nothing but a horrible example for any of his householder followers as well as subsequent Generations of children.
Ironically, sex is touted in the cult as only being good for procreation. This is of course idiotic and nowhere to be found in nature is sex only used for procreation. Sex is pleasurable and has been used for the simple function of making the human experience more interesting.
All that aside, did Krishna, with his 16,108 wives and extramarital gopi affairs have sex only for procreation (you know, with his transcendental penis)? Did he raise his kids in Krishna Consciousness and to chant hare krishna all day? What type of consciousness were his thousands of offspring raised in? Did Arjuna and Bhisma and Hanuman chant Hare Krishna all day? Shiva, the so-called greates pot smoking Vaishnava is literally immortalized as a giant cosmic penis in his most popular worshiped form as a dick and yoni. It's kind of silly to think that all these faiths are riddled with sexuality issues. No one ever thought that perhaps there is a more rational and ethical way to weave sex-life into the equation. The result? bhakti couples fucking each other while not making any visual contact while chanting hare krishna. That my friend is fucked up stupidity at its very very finest.
And, this leads me to my final point in all of this:
Butler's guru's organization is still riddled with sex abuse. As it was when the swami was alive n kickin, so it is today:
[www.facebook.com]
[www.facebook.com]
40 years of prabhupadas grand society amounting to a pedophile ring. And they protect it. And mayapur of all places, their so-called "mecca" invented by Bhaktivinod and Bhaktisiddhanta as the epicenter of their cult leader, the epileptic saint Chaitanya—scholar with no scholarly works left behind.
And for the record, Butler getting involved in his follower's marriage/partner choices and criticizing his disciple's sexuality and partner choices IS SEX ABUSE. Butler's lectures describing fringe homosexual acts or bestiality or any paraphilia to underage kids through many lectures and letters IS SEX ABUSE.
And for the record on this forum, Butler used to have his followers, my godbrothers, like Nitai Bishop, infiltrate gay sex clubs to get info about assorted sex acts and going-on in such places. Why? Did krishna want Butler to do that? You know, since Butler is under the direct direction of the lord, one can only ask, what the fuck?!
We know a fraction on this forum of the true depth of depravity, crimes and cult tactics that Burtler and his minions use. A FRACTION.
RUN PEOPLE.
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by:
RUN_FOREST_RUN
()
Date: March 08, 2023 06:35AM
It was always humorous that Butler's camp avoided using traditional gaudya vaishnav tunes to sing their mantras bit instead they used pop songs from the likes of Dylan and the Beatles...
Speaking of the Beatles: [www.irishnews.com]
Ironic how the modern-day krishna cult is sp concerned about social acceptance so they are now celebrating the "disappearance day" of a defunct Beatle who smoked all his life and died of lung cancer.
Apparently all that powerful mantra chanting did George little good with his emotional state: [www.msn.com]
Jai Sri Harrison Ki Jai! Now lets all sing gopala govinda rama to Taylor Swifts latest hit!
Speaking of the Beatles: [www.irishnews.com]
Ironic how the modern-day krishna cult is sp concerned about social acceptance so they are now celebrating the "disappearance day" of a defunct Beatle who smoked all his life and died of lung cancer.
Apparently all that powerful mantra chanting did George little good with his emotional state: [www.msn.com]
Jai Sri Harrison Ki Jai! Now lets all sing gopala govinda rama to Taylor Swifts latest hit!
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by:
Truth wins
()
Date: March 10, 2023 09:07PM
mr midgett became more of a legend when muncie left this reality due to his brain cancer.
Before him, muncie was the second most worshipped entity after butler.
Imagine how life has turned out for him.
After all life in the cult has been crappy for many of us because we did not have the right connections
But on the other hand SoI is paradise for the likes of midgett and their families.
Carte blanche all the way.
Free international travels, the best cuisine and rooms in whatever center, people respecting, adoring you no matter where you go.
You never have to worry about money, rent, food…
Of course such souls have hit the jackpot in every way.
I thought I had hit the jackpot just by coming across the fake representative of god.
Imagine if you believe you are a brahman, that liberation awaits, that you have found the pure devotee and on top of all EVERYBODY loves and respects you.
Kind of the life the rich lead in poor countries.
Not everybody lives the same reality within SoI.
I guess we have landed on the purgatory side while some land on the heaven side.
Before him, muncie was the second most worshipped entity after butler.
Imagine how life has turned out for him.
After all life in the cult has been crappy for many of us because we did not have the right connections
But on the other hand SoI is paradise for the likes of midgett and their families.
Carte blanche all the way.
Free international travels, the best cuisine and rooms in whatever center, people respecting, adoring you no matter where you go.
You never have to worry about money, rent, food…
Of course such souls have hit the jackpot in every way.
I thought I had hit the jackpot just by coming across the fake representative of god.
Imagine if you believe you are a brahman, that liberation awaits, that you have found the pure devotee and on top of all EVERYBODY loves and respects you.
Kind of the life the rich lead in poor countries.
Not everybody lives the same reality within SoI.
I guess we have landed on the purgatory side while some land on the heaven side.
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by:
Truth wins
()
Date: March 10, 2023 09:45PM
Another thing that is not very conducive in those cults, is being constantly with other people.
You are so drained by all those different energies and personalities.
Yet it is called TOLERANCE.
If you are an introvert, you will be called selfish.
There is not much time for the “serious” devotees to be alone and reflect.
The only alone time you have, is when you do japa. And even that becomes a duty. I have to finish my rounds at midnight because I was too busy making wailana money for free.
When I look back at my journey, others were like the water on the fire.
All the bliss and good times were alwasy ruined by the dramas and pettiness.
I am not sure how mental illness can be cured hanging out with a multitude of other mentally ill patients.
I guess both mentally and spiritually ill.
However we still make it work or close our eyes on the dysfunctions.
SoI is one giant dysfunctional family. And like most messed up families, we keep accepting each other unconditionally.
We keep carrying the scars of abuse and fear.
But we stay in the toxic situations because we are told that we deserve even worse.
And what is awaiting out there in the material realm anyway?
This is why many just accept mediorcre situations.
It is not always because they are brainwashed or deeply in love with the cult.
It is truly because you now have friends, families, habits… that you are too afraid to let go of.
You are so drained by all those different energies and personalities.
Yet it is called TOLERANCE.
If you are an introvert, you will be called selfish.
There is not much time for the “serious” devotees to be alone and reflect.
The only alone time you have, is when you do japa. And even that becomes a duty. I have to finish my rounds at midnight because I was too busy making wailana money for free.
When I look back at my journey, others were like the water on the fire.
All the bliss and good times were alwasy ruined by the dramas and pettiness.
I am not sure how mental illness can be cured hanging out with a multitude of other mentally ill patients.
I guess both mentally and spiritually ill.
However we still make it work or close our eyes on the dysfunctions.
SoI is one giant dysfunctional family. And like most messed up families, we keep accepting each other unconditionally.
We keep carrying the scars of abuse and fear.
But we stay in the toxic situations because we are told that we deserve even worse.
And what is awaiting out there in the material realm anyway?
This is why many just accept mediorcre situations.
It is not always because they are brainwashed or deeply in love with the cult.
It is truly because you now have friends, families, habits… that you are too afraid to let go of.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.