Truth wins Wrote:
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> I want to make it clear that when I was seriously
> following the path, I had full faith in the
> spiritual teacher.

Most of the people had. Otherwise, it would not last so long serving selflessly, neglecting their ambitions or ordinary real life needs and enduring a lot of pain from activists.

> I know that I was just another annoying patient at
> the mental hospital.

Hospital.It was part of the narrative. "We're all here at the hospital." It tormented me for a long time and finally concluded that it may be a hospital, but the sisters stick syringes poisoned with aids.

> And as some other people said it, it is not all
> black and white.

True.

> I will never
> forgive how you installed the fear of God in me
> with that incessant obsession with offenses.
> I always thought I was very fortunate not having
> been exposed to the Catholic fear and guilt. What
> do you know? I guess I spoke too fast!
> How many times have I heard JG say that fear
> separates us from God?


If we are talking about "fear" then this story / testimony is important. Unfortunately, referring to the name of SIF Poland also as "Chaitanya Mission".

[sekty.pl]

"The witnesses say"

excerpt:

Quote

It was getting worse from week to week. Robert stopped sleeping, refused food, stopped washing. All the time he said he was waiting for death, after all, he had lost contact with the god and the guru. He was in a state of panic, he wondered what would happen to him after death, since he was burdened with such terrible guilt. In an act of despair, in December 1995, he agreed to a psychiatric examination. He was referred for observation at the Psychiatric Clinic of the Medical University. He escaped from there but was detained. After receiving a letter from the Institute ordering him to be treated, he agreed to remain in the hospital. He has been there on and off to this day.

Many people may wonder how some of us stayed for a long time and how we could put up with all the “non sense”.
At first I thought that I partly stayed because of a weak psyche, poor boundaries, a rather toxic upbringing, which made abuse more acceptable.
However I have met other people who were very well adjusted, extremely assertive, smart, talented.... Who also fell into the webb.
I am taking about adults who walk into it with their own feet and not born into it.
Many of us are looking for big answers and are very thirsty in the desert of material life.
The Guru has a very good sense of humor, charisma, the knowledge is imparted in a very clear way...
Asides from the R rated language that many complain about, his teachings do not go against the teachings of the Vedas. And are pretty close to what Jesus would encourage. Be kind, humble, respect others...
What we know about the Guru is based on his lectures and what other devotees, disciples tell us.
Those ex disciples that have posted here, are unknown to those who have entered the group in the late 90’s or 2000.
They are of course blacklisted and cathegorized as offensive demons whose names should never be mentioned.
Our association was/is with the faithful devotees that only have great stories to share.
And we all listen to the old times stories as though we were drinking the Soma juice. Feeling humbled to associate with the disciples who have had the privilege of being around Gurudeva since the beginning.
This is the facade that we are presented. We know nothing about what is revealed in this forum by the 70’s disciples.
The most forbidden info I have ever heard from ex members was the germophbia on site.
And I can assure you that many will leave this world protected and in lala land thinking that they have hit the rare jackpot of finding a “pure” devotee.
I thought I was amongst the blessed ones until I came across all the ugly “covert” information.
The greatest protection of the Guru on the path of Bhakti is the fear of offense
to the “pure” devotee.
The Guru himself oftens speaks about how spiritual life is like the razor’s edge.
That you can get cut so badly if you make huge mistakes.
And the elephant offense is considered putting your own head under the guillotine.
It is the offense of offenses. And a person is even encouraged to destroy their bodies if they commit such offense.
So you can understand why people can never doubt or question the Guru.
You are also encouraged to believe that his wife is also a pure devotee.
Abuse is often called chastisement. So when you ban a sincere person for few years (because they speak up), is to be considered an act of mercy.
Something that will push that person to change for the better.
Then you are supposed to come out of exile with your tail between your legs.
Try to keep your tongue in your pocket, be obedient, so that this time you are not expelled for life. Sell your soul to belong!
Living in very poor conditions while Guru and some disciples live in million dollar houses is also considered very normal.
It is called austerity. Something that is highly regarded on the path.
Also if one comes from an abusive background and low self esteem, it will actually make kit worse.
Self loathing is also very normal. We often use that language:
“I am the most fallen”, “I don’t deserve mercy”, “I deserve even worse”...
Lower than the straw on the street. More tolerant than a tree!
The worse part is that if something really bad happens to you, you will BELIEVE that it was due to your offenses on top of the Karma.
Knowing about all the dysfunctions is to be considered gossip. So that is also very convenient.
This is why this philosophy can be extremely dangerous in the wrong hands.
Unfortunately seems as though both Iskcon and SOI have twisted it around to get on a power trip.
There is also the bliss addiction. The bliss that is like spiritual crack.
Something people feel when participating in Kirtan, serving....
This path is not easy to follow completely alone. Association is very key and of course the Kirtans.
Since Iskcon is the despicaple “devil”, we often wonder where the heck will I go if I leave?
The same way that there are many amazing souls in the SOI, there are also very decent disciples of ACB.
People stay in toxic relations all the time. And it is no different in religious settings.
A husband may give the wife a black eye and bring her flowers the next day.
In this process the carrot at the end of the stick is the spiritual bliss (crack) that one feels and their attachment to “God” and the illusion that they have found the confidential servant of God.
An opportunity that is more rare than getting hit by lightning.
So there is absolutely no point or way to judge anybody who has stayed too long or will stay till the “end”.
I believe that ending up in damaging spiritual groups is also part of fate and a person’s journey.
I am not able to see the bigger picture as to why things happen the way they do.
I just know that fear is the most debilating emotion and it should not have the front seat in a Bhakti Yoga community.
This explanation is for those who are curious about SOI, who are new to the group, who are doubting.
These are the main reasons people stay, are afraid to leave...
It can often be as difficult as freeing yourself from moving sands.
I watched the infamous Meghan Markle interview. Prince Harry said that he felt trapped. That he has compassion for his dad and brother because they are trapped in the system.
This is exactly what is going on with those who have left looking at those who are still in the group.
I know that some are genuinely happy doing their own thing. But some will always live with that sense of being semi trapped.
I don’t enjoy being considered a Judas by those I still care for as friends and teachers.
If I truly believed that the secretive side of SOI allows them to carry a highly divine humanitarian mission, I would have protected it with my life.
This is what I fanatically believed for so many years and dove in with heart and soul.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> However I have met other people who were very well
> adjusted, extremely assertive, smart, talented....
> Who also fell into the webb.

Yes.Assertive, smart, talented and suddenly on the "spiritual way" they instruct you/warn you "You're sitting in your ass again". That's spiritual gentleness.

And when you ask the initiated activist whether this person - the leader - can do it publicly, and how it relates to Vaishnava etiquette, he will reply that "a devotee can be like a thunderbolt". If, however, if a lamb did that, she would be burned at the stake.


> Our association was/is with the faithful devotees
> that only have great stories to share.

Sure, initial LSD englightment etc...

> The most forbidden info I have ever heard from ex
> members was the germophbia on site.

Many people in Poland did not know about young prince, no information about the temple etc..

> I thought I was amongst the blessed ones until I
> came across all the ugly “covert” information.
> The greatest protection of the Guru on the path of
> Bhakti is the fear of offense
> to the “pure” devotee.
> The Guru himself oftens speaks about how spiritual
> life is like the razor’s edge.
> That you can get cut so badly if you make huge
> mistakes.

Then we start ask - who do other masters they indicate broken sanyas' vows, why a disciple became a wife, a spiritual daughter, and on top of that, who was married to another devotee, a disciple, and so on. And why if a second marriage should be on the vanaprastha level, the disciple initiates have another wife and there is no scandal .... Or why other Vaishnava books are wrong and at the same time yoga nidra is taught that is not part of Gaudiya philosophy ...


> And the elephant offense is considered putting
> your own head under the guillotine.

Then I will suddenly ask, and why, if we are talking about the Vaishnava etiquette, razor's edge and elephant offences, then when a SIF Filiphines member goes away to a great master with tens of thousands of followers, he is (the Master) suddenly bombarded with e-mails and among the bombers there is a previously sentenced marijuana dealer for 12 years . Then there is no etiquette? It is not an elephant offence that this great sanyasi who has always lived a pure life as a child of devotees is now bombarded by e-mail? Mr. Midget - where is the etiquette here?

Happy Man will tell you that a deer ate the etiquette.

It was so that it was a conscious deer in the forest, he reincarnated and he just decided to eat the etiquette. From the writings. He gouged out the right pages and that's it. Nobody was to blame here. Just a deer.

> You are also encouraged to believe that his wife
> is also a pure devotee.

Sure. Earlier being wife of another disciple. Family. Wow. Somethings is wrong here.

> Living in very poor conditions while Guru and some
> disciples live in million dollar houses is also
> considered very normal.
> It is called austerity. Something that is highly
> regarded on the path.

Sure. As in Poland, the Grand Vizier taught in public lectures that an example of materialism is the pursuit and purchase of a house in a quiet and rich district of the city. Finally, he bought a house himself in a wealthy and quiet neighborhood of the city. What could not be forgotby one declared brahmacari. But in the end, he (this brahmacari) also married a woman half his age. In fact, why bother with these questions. She is young, sexy, this house of the Grand Vizier does not matter anymore.

> “I am the most fallen”, “I don’t deserve mercy”,
> “I deserve even worse”...

At the same time, part of the narrative was not to flog yourself.

> This is why this philosophy can be extremely
> dangerous in the wrong hands.

Not exactly. Let's start with the basics of the Guru-Disciple relationship. Tadana & Lalana. No contact with guru - no process, no tradition. Game Over.

> This path is not easy to follow completely alone.
> Association is very key and of course the Kirtans.

True

> Since Iskcon is the despicaple “devil”, we often
> wonder where the heck will I go if I leave?

Sure, the devil. Marijuana dealer busted at least twice is not a devil. To kill a diver - just a mistake.


An whatta bout the farm with cows sold to regular country man. A paper contract or maybe a vow that the fudge will survive till natural death, no one will tear their heads off and turn them into a hamburger? So sweet story ...

Cash from a huge abortion clinic? 350 thousand abortions a year? Wait a minute, benefactors, they do so many other things. Although the Bhagavatam does not allow to relativize as in the case of eating and selling meat, it does not apply to abortion at all ...



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2021 05:33AM by DaWatcher.

There is one thing that truly surpriises me. People have been posting here since 2004. There was also the very public disclosures from Rama....
I don’t understand how they thought that they could get away with the pro gay marriage sratedy just to gain popularity. They knew that they had ao many ennemies out there. Insiders who would step forward and expose the lies.
With ao many lectures to back the lies up.
Why are they shooting themseles in the foot? If anything they should keep a low profile.
It is amazing that the senior devotees cannot see that these ugly truths coming out is not just demons trying to destroy their mission.
It is a divine voice telling them:
“I have been watching you!”
Maybe a mercy. An opportunity to clean house and make it better for the poor souls who are “trapped”. Who sincerely want to know and serve.
I know they feel that they are invincible. That God is on their side in the battle... Confident that hypocisy and lies are allowed as long as you serve Guru and God 24/7.
Never underestimate the power of Illusion!

At least the party mentality and the syndrome of a besieged fortress.

For this arrogance and ignorance. Tulsi. It didn't take much for "candidate" to sue Google - a private company - and lose.

For this classic contempt for the smaller ones. National. As reported, the Americans in the Filipino brahmacari school were treated better than, for example, Poles. This is supposed to be this wonderful spiritual atmosphere? Worth selling an apartment and sending a child thousands of kilometers away? To a country with a different language, climate and problems with medical care? When younger brahmacaris were molested by the elders? A floor under the current and a prince sneaking out to a Filipino prostitute and infecting other boys?

Or protecting a marijuana dealer. There is tolerance for him. For poor Kasia Socha, who sold newspapers at the station (the equivalent of Life Force News) - there is no tolerance. 1 hour to pack and out. Pack and out.

Teachings of mercy. Best sect in the world.

Or stories in lectures about how the whole world uses us. But when it comes to paying for Poles' work - you don't pay the same amount or not at all. Gosh, why?

Therefore, I believe that on your beautiful haciendas on Hawaii you should be liberated from this material burden by the Chinese People's Liberation Army. Face them, Sweeties. It can be so exciting ....



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2021 07:00PM by DaWatcher.

We cannot change anything within group. What we can do is to help open the eyes of those who have doubts.
Those who are afraid to leave, question, use their critical thinking.
Going through the old posts, I came across a person who said that this forum has helped (him or her) as well as 2 other people to leave.
This is all we can do. Help those who are no longer happy with their situations.
Those who serve in fear.
A good majority is also very happy, well treated, well married, well everything!
Dawatcher, I feel your sadness as I too cannot stand the partialities.
I trust that we all have our own fate. We all mature at different pace.
We are doing our best to make a difference (possibly a small one).
I try to look at it all with detachment so that I don’t get too emotional.
Iskcon is still standing on their feet so will SoI.

Keep reading through the old posts on this thread. You will be amazed at what you will learn about CB and his group.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those who are afraid to leave, question, use their
> critical thinking.

If increased fear is this brake, it is a criminal case.

> A good majority is also very happy, well treated,
> well married, well everything!

Their situation, their freedom, right and choice.

> Dawatcher, I feel your sadness as I too cannot
> stand the partialities.

A sad lack of responsibility in the context of subsequent recruitment attempts with total denial, hypocrisy.

> I trust that we all have our own fate. We all
> mature at different pace.

True

> We are doing our best to make a difference
> (possibly a small one).

As I wrote earlier, ultimately bearing in mind that only some people are looking for absolute truth, we are lonely on this path. Considering even the teachings in SIF that you should be ready to jump out of a speeding train if it's a comfortable train to hell or nowhere, you pop up.

> I try to look at it all with detachment so that I
> don’t get too emotional.

Many have already done it

> Iskcon is still standing on their feet so will
> SoI.

There are other sangas. Some of them have standard where brahmans do not chant at all, some with very high and sublte teachings.

Any way. Some teachers' writings were liberating, such as Srila Haridasa Sastriji Maharaja. And the spirit of Bhagavag Gita's comments by Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami did not agree with utilitarianism and treating people like cattle.


Finally on the way to the Absolute Truth if it exist one goes alone when he wants to go.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2021 05:17AM by DaWatcher.

Hoax108 I have been going through the novel worthy old posts.I know I will always miss my friends, teachers and the very good memories. However after everything I know now, I am glad that I am blacklisted. I cannot be emotionally drawn back to the group. I know many who return after 10 years of absence. There are way too many lies, contradictions, secrets, hypocrisy... Ignorance is bliss for those who are blindly following. The senior disciples are doing an amazing job at keeping the secrets. It must be exhausting to cover all this up. I have compassion for them. They are under a heavy spell. I hope they will one day realize what they have been doing. Not only to themselves but to the whole community.

This is a very interesting video that I am reposting. I forgot which person posted it in the forum. Sorry I cannot give credit to that person.


[m.youtube.com]