Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: GODHIMSELF ()
Date: June 12, 2019 01:56AM

In his fist books Srimad Bhagavatam Swami Bhaktivedanta said that "the black race is an ugly race " so not surprise that Butler does not have African American disciples ..and its surprising that African American became Swami Bhaktivedanta disciples (even if there was very few of them ) The hatred of homosexuality by Butler and his followers are directly related to quotes of Swami Bhaktivedanta stating that homosexuality is a DEMONIC activity .Butler took Swami Bhaktivedanta words to the be ultimate truth in some cases and just disregarded other teachings of Swami Bhaktivedanta for his own gains.Butler is now a multi millionaires mainly living in seclusion with all kinds of strems of incomes coming to him dayly .He as Tulsi Gabbard running for the president of the USA that claim she loves all americans ...blacks and homosexuals .IT IS LIES AND DECEITS over and over again .

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: June 12, 2019 10:57AM

Tulsi- pls just go back to the beach, climb on a board and sail away. I feel bad for you. When will you stop being the 'Play Doh Political Puppet' for Butler?
He pulls you this way- he pulls you that way- he will ride you into Hell (or political exile).
He shapes you, he molds you.
He pulls you up, he will pull you down, especially when you are no longer of any use to him. It is true- you will do nothing unless he has approved it.
When people talk to Tulsi- they are really communicating with Butler via his mouthpiece/talking head puppet.

Tulsi, walk away now, while you still have some semblance of a life.

Latest intel on the campaign trail from Bart Dame:

Bart Dame
June 4 at 12:46 PM ·
Quote: Here is an extended comment on Tulsi’s prospects I made downthread elsewhere. I might as well drag it up to the top level so people can pick at it.
Tulsi is hanging on to the hope her anti-war message will catch on. She is hoping to get a bump from a breakout performance in the first debate.
But I occasionally look at videos of her “rallies” and she generally gets “crowds” of 100 people, even in areas where there are Science of Identity devotees to do advance work for her.
So far, she has not gained traction.
I LIKE most of her foreign policy stuff, with some exceptions. But even there, she does not display a consistent approach. She calls herself a “hawk” in the fight against terrorism. But the war on terror theme has been used to justify the ever-expanding war(s) she also speaks against. So she wants limited and “smart” use of our military. Like drone strikes?
A “smart” approach to the fight against jihadi terrorism would see the importance of building an alliance in which devout Muslims committed to coexistence would play a central role. It seems to me that would prioritize maintaining one’s distance from anti-Muslim bigots. But Tulsi has embraced the Hindu-chauvinist party of India, the BJP, and its bigoted Prime Minister, Narendra Modi. That is not a minor problem for Tulsi. And no “progressive” can overlook this alignment or pretend her ties with Modi are no different than her relationships with national leaders. One of her biggest sources for campaign contributions has been America-based supporters of the BJP.
This seriously undercuts her credibility as an anti-war and pro-justice advocate. It also undercuts her claims she is not anti-Muslim.
Progressives also have difficulty with her repeated attempts to appeal to the Fox News/Tea Party crowd. It is one thing to try to convince working and middle class people to abandon racism, sexism, militarism, etc. But Tulsi keeps sending signals to the Right that she’s not really opposed to their rightwing beliefs. And they love her for it. Her endorsements by Steve Bannon and David Duke are only the most visible of her MANY fans on the Far Right. WHY are they attracted to her? Why do THEY see her as a kindred spirit?
Here are three high profile events when Tulsi did a “call out” to the Right that she is their ally.
1) When she called Mazie Hirono and Kamala Harris “religious bigots” for confronting a Trump judicial nominee for his involvement in a rightwing, anti-women group, the Knights of Columbus. Just because a rightwing group is affiliated with a religious organization does NOT make criticism of them an attack on religious freedom. Tulsi was consciously playing to a rightwing audience with that stunt. And they loved it.
2). When Trump purposely shut down the federal government over his insistence Congress fund his wall, Tulsi totally ignored the moral dimension of that conflict, adopted a “fine people on both sides” approach and said both the Democrats and Republicans were responsible for the shut down. She was bailing out Trump just as he was about to buckle to the public pressure. That was done to reinforce her “bipartisan” image for personal political gain. But it makes sincere progressives shake their heads.
3). As soon as William Barr came out with his dishonest 4 page summary of the Mueller Report, Tulsi rushed in front of the cameras wanting to be the First Democrat to say it Muelkar had proven there was “no collusion” and it was time to “move on.” She argued that any further investigation of Trump was motivated by partisan considerations and bad for the country.
It is one thing to say the Democratic Establishment (and their network, MSNBC) had over-hyped “Russiagate” and to say there was “no collusion” and that Trump’s actions do not deserve congressional scrutiny. What about the obvious instances of obstruction of justice?
Tulsi’s failure to catch on with progressive voters cannot be attributed completely to a lack of “name recognition.” Those who DO recognize her name and become familiar with her views and record do not necessarily fall in love with her. And those that DO fall in love with her can only do so based upon superficial “aesthetic” considerations, including a romanticism of her “Hinduism” and her “exotic” nature.
A long way of saying Tulsi is likely to stay in longer than other candidates with low polling numbers because of her financial support from pro-Modi Indian Americans, because she has a skeleton crew of Butler devotees committed to stick with her, because she hopes her anti-war message will attract a dedicated following and because she benefits from building a national database of donors and supporters for future use.
But unless she gets that hoped for bump from the first debate and her poll numbers rise, she will not make the cut for the next debate which will have higher standards. That would be the end of her campaign. Even if she might not be willing to accept it. Would her image survive losing badly in Iowa and New Hampshire?
Meanwhile, it is hard to believe she can simultaneously run for President and re-election to Congress. Does there come a point where she will have to give up her presidential campaign to focus on holding on to her congressional seat? If she is defeated for Congress, is there any way for her to remain on the national stage (with any dignity)?
Kai Kahele is a formidable opponent. His role in opposing the A&B Water Theft Bill earned him a lot of respect from environmentalists, native Hawaiians and “good government” reformers. At the same time, he angered a big chunk of the political and business elite that otherwise would have supported him for Congress. Unless he behaves like a corporate hack sort of Democrat in the 2020 session, I believe he will get enough if the enviro and progressive vote to pose a serious threat to Tulsi.
IF she stays in the presidential race, she might, with a series of lucky breaks and hard work, win some national delegates in "college towns and art colonies." You know, the areas where Green Party candidates get votes, but it will be a very small number. If she is on the ballot in Hawaii, I doubt she will hit the 15% threshold required to get ANY delegates, even in her own district. Is she willing to endure that humiliation? I don’t think so."
End quote.


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: MyselfMichelle ()
Date: June 13, 2019 12:05PM

Hello, I've been following this for some time but had so much personal processing to do I just never knew how to start sharing my time in CBs(Sif) group. So here it goes. Summarizing the 8 yrs I was in and it's after affects would be impossible, I currently have about 12 journals that I've written so far as personal therapy. I was involved with the Sacramento group and left in 2011. When I left I was at a complete loss of friends or support. I questioned myself for years because I thought I had the gift of discernment and had to figure out how I ended following this fanatic weirdo. I hope it's ok to share bits and pieces as I go, Id like to connect with others.I was brought to a small gathering by a friend and then given a tape by BSSP, it was his singing and speaking that I was curious about, and what seemed like a healthy lifestyle and peaceful living. The women were so sweet and friendly, Id never experienced what felt like such nurturing before and I loved the singing. I became close to two women and blindly trusted them. One was a long time disciple. I was older, had a grown child going through a break up and generally unhappy at the time so it seemed like a wonderful purpose. I always liked Jesus so I had questions, but apparently didn't know biblical scripture, they had what sounded like reasonable answers. I didn't research and compare CBs twists on the Bible, I dove in, they got me at"love for God"And I felt like I had a purpose, oh boy the subtlety of it all,I didn't start seeing the inside until I was about 4 yrs in. Always thinking I'm an independent woman I was in denial of my need to fit in and desire to band with others with a mission. Later after hearing the#3cds and being in shock at the things CB said, I would split for awhile, then go back some how justifying the insanity, oppression of the self and lost my sense of being an objective thinker. I will share details on things as they come to mind, just not sure how to start here. I have connected with someone in this forum and I think he's very brave and strong. I ultimately left because I was seeing mental, and spiritual neglect of a child. Things one would not see just being at a chant. It broke my heart, so I left. My mortal fiber kicked in as I don't like Injustice to the innocent. Feel free to ask me questions. I've grieved the loss of what I thought was my family and friends and I'm over worrying about any thing I say hurting current members or any kind of backlash. Don't care, this is a messed up cult!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: GODHIMSELF ()
Date: June 13, 2019 02:23PM

Welcome MyselfMichelle
What is the worse things you saw or experience in that Cult ?
Did you met Butler in person ??
Do you feell you where emotionally or psychologically damage by this cult ?

Did you hear homophobic remarks in Sacramento ...where you instructed by Tusta Krishna ?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: June 13, 2019 08:34PM

Welcome, MyselfMichelle.

Tulsi Gabbard is highly placed.

It is rare for someone involved with SIF to come forward as you are doing.

It is yet more rare for someone to be able to describe how children
are neglected in SIF.


You are under zero obligation to tell us anything that might disclose your
identity. You are also free to go quiet as long as you like if you need a break.

If you get any private messages that seem wrong, send a copy at once to
Rick Ross. You can contact him here.


Before you confide in any person here at CEI (including myself) read
posts that person has made. You can assess any of us by clicking
our names which will give our profiles and the date we registered.

For example, click 'Corboy' and this takes you to my profile. Do that
with any of us so you know what we are like.


Anyone without
a prior post, who has just registered - have them prove themselves.

A trustworthy
journalist is employed by a media agency with a top notch legal department and has the resources to protect source anonymity.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2019 08:38PM by corboy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: June 17, 2019 05:41PM

Greetings, Myself Michelle- what Corboy advises is sound!
This forum has been plagued by vermin known as the apologists or trolls.
They will try to ferret out who you are- perhaps contact you and possibly try to
intimidate you in an attempt to silence you.
You already stated above why you were vulnerable to this insidious group which
has perfected saying just the right thing to hook you into their group.

The reason you left was also very telling- it is something rarely touched upon but make no mistake. CHILDREN ARE EMOTIONALLY AND SPIRITUALLY DAMAGED IN THIS GROUP!


So please tell us what you saw along those lines.
Is the emphasis still on performing free labor called 'devotional service'? Its called slave labor in the real world- did you see children performing 'devotional service' instead of going to school?

Are children still told not to call their parents mom and dad & instead they must use their cult name?

Are children still not being watched carefully while the parents leave them all over the place while they are engaged in 'devotional service'?

Are the females still being told they are less valuable than men?

etc etc etc...

So after 4 years- pls tell us what you really think of Butler.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: June 21, 2019 03:23PM

Myselfmichelle, you wrote:

"Later after hearing the#3cds and being in shock at the things CB said, I would split for awhile, then go back some how justifying the insanity, oppression of the self and lost my sense of being an objective thinker."

What was on these CD's that you found objectionable?
Did you ever have to sign a non-disclosure agreement?
How would you advise a person stuck in the cult who wants to leave?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2019 03:29PM by Vera City.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: June 25, 2019 05:41AM

Prime example of what happens in a mind controlled cult- the 2 top dogs-King Butler and his Queen Bee, again engage in self promotion. Purest form of narcissism ever. Her voice is horrible and always has been. She can barely move-how can that be, Yoga Mistress?
And, she has deteriorated so much!
Many others have commented on how the stress of kow-towing to Butler ages those around him. As Way Looney totters into old age, what will become of her?

Remember to invest in Sephora stock, because Wai Lana seems to be buying and using TONS of the stuff.

PS: Way Looney, its not working.

Chant heard at a beach mansion in Kailua: "Mirror mirror on the wall, who's the fairest Guru and wife of all..."

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: June 26, 2019 11:58PM

Hello Everybody,

I am former SIF member from Poland. Will not tell much as many controversies are subject of my study. However for some time I do read this forum and posts, so:

> It is yet more rare for someone to be able to
> describe how children
> are neglected in SIF.

Yes, i can confirm that in the 1990s the children of devotees in Poland were treated as a proof of the lack of seriousness of practical engagement and the time spent with them was treated as material activity. Children, often very humble and gentle, expressed their lack of time, for fun or attention. As far as family idea is concerned, it was verbalised that going into marriage will bring someting about 3 years less activity in so called devotional service.

So, on the one hand, marriages were recommended, but deeply, between words, it was treated as a little spiritual seriousness.

You can imagine what people have been going through with spiritual life and having, for example, a high sexual temperament.

There was a situation where two devotees were embracing in the park, and this became a social sensation. Instead of simply recognizing the family model as supporting spiritual life and not making a problem of it.

Those years in Poland were rather financially hard. So for example it was harder to live separatelly, espiecially when conflicts with parents made people to go away from homes. Poland was different that USA. Harder to get jobs, to get money for separate living. There were for example situations, that serious girl devotees were beaten by parents. And forced to live separatelly, but socially, especially in small villages it was seen suspiciously.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: June 28, 2019 04:20PM

Hello DaWatcher, pleased to finally hear from a former Polish devotee.
I just have a few questions for you, if I may?

Were the Polish devotees obligated, coerced or shamed into sending money to Butler? Were they also condemned if something went wrong for Butler and were they fined (forced to send money) as the American devotees were?

How many kids did you witness working without pay? I witnessed many of the kids forced to work for Butler on several occasions. They called it "devotional service" which was, in fact, unpaid slave labor. It was usually involving one or other of the many businesses that Butler had set up for profit. Nothing was ever in his nanme, of course. He had a convenient foil- they called it the Wai Lana Yoga gimmick.

Did the Polish devotees ever receive - from Hawaii- the special prasadam packages? Each box guaranteed (especially in the 1990's) to contain TOENAILS?

Do you know, by any chance, how many kids were seriously injured or died, due to parental neglect? The parents were usually too busy to care for their children--they were serving the Master.

There was never any question in my mind that children were abused & neglected in one form or another in this cult.

Options: ReplyQuote

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.