Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: IanKoviak ()
Date: October 21, 2017 08:31AM

Just how far does the spiders web go?

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: October 23, 2017 04:30AM

It goes very very far, Ian.

And here is one more swing, for good measure.

Looks like Chris Butler may become the 'Harvey Weinstein' of the Vaishnava community!


**many many links !!**

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: kailuasleuth ()
Date: October 23, 2017 02:29PM

Cat. Bag. Out. []

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PYRAMID SCAM - cat's out of the bag!
Posted by: just-googling ()
Date: October 25, 2017 05:52AM

MEEEOWWWW ... The cat is out of the bag indeed!

So it's all TRUE! A big thank-you to Christine Gralow for connecting the dots.

BISMARK, TIBBY, KHEMENEY etc ~ CON-MEN, THIEVES, CHEATS, LIARS ... Do these guys really believe they are engaging their victims in "devotional service" because they are using the stolen money to give to the "pure devotee" Kris Butler??? Who spends the stolen monies on beach-front mansions, private jets, and sleaze-bag lawyers to sue anyone who criticizes him? Are these guys so deluded? Brainwashed by their "guru" to become sleazy money-grabbing con-men and low-life thieves on a grandiose scale and at the same time believing they are doing the ultimate good in the world? DELUDED they are!

This does not bode well for "Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa" as all these con-men are his favorite right-hand henchmen. Will he claim "nothing to do with me" because his name is not legally listed as the benefactor of the monies? Despite the fact that he is no doubt living in the ill-gotten mansions and controlling every penny that these thieves are stealing?

I do still hold great respect for anyone who follows a religious tradition that teaches enlightenment thru chanting the Names of God, abstinence from alcoholic intoxication, killing of cows, etc ... HOWEVER, ever since I read Bhagavad-Gita As It Is way back over 40 years ago, I have often wondered what exactly is the meaning of "devotional service" and how these words could be misinterpreted very easily, as seems to be the case here with the SIF organization.

The $$$$$ numbers are mind-boggling ... Australian School of Meditation with 26 million dollars in their account? Are they using this money to feed the poor? House the homeless?

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: October 26, 2017 06:59PM

Thank you kailuasleuth for assembling a very complicated story into a credible and distinctive report.

Hopefully, in an era where people want truth instead of coverup, honesty instead of spin, real information instead of fake news, that the people of Hawaii will appreciate your reportage.


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Tulsi Gabbard, Friends of the BJP Abroad and Vedic Science
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 26, 2017 10:43PM

Someone in the comments section expressed hope there would be a Part Two.

And, what about Shri Shim????

A delicious morsel:

The Butler's web article has a picture of what was once Butler's farm.

Here is the caption under the photo.


North Shore Kaua'i land once used for Butler's farm, now owned by Mark Zuckerberg. (Photo taken by John Wehrheim from atop Zuckerberg's wall.


Butler's Web: Krishna, Politics, and QNET's International Pyramid Scheme

On the financial front, a key part of the Butler group’s business network - rooted in the Down to Earth vegetarian grocery chain and Hong Kong-based QNET’s alleged international pyramid scheme – is currently being scrutinized in the Supreme Court of India.

Tulsi Gabbard associating herself with the BJP the polical party of India's current Prime Ministry, Narendra Modi. (Would Tulsi continue to associate with Friends of BJP if Modi is voted out of office and BJP suffers major losses in the polls, eh?

Some background on the BJP party in India -- and why we must BEWARE of this Friends of the BJP that Tulsi associated herself with in that Youtube video.

The chilling effect on India’s academic freedom
MOHAN J. DUTTA 22 March 2016


The BJP party follows a historical ideology which posits such a thing as Vedic sciences -- which is compatible with Chris Butler's religion, which he in turn learned from Prabhupada. This politicised nationalist history of a Sansrkit, Vedic India has been in India for nearly a century. The BJP now has the power to implement it. Again, this crap is incompatible with American values, but is compatible with Chris Butler's religion and Tulsi Gabbard's religion.

Since 2014, Indian universities have been subject to the authoritarian impulse of the state, with the right wing Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) government of Narendra Modi seeking to fundamentally transform the character of these universities, imposing unqualified administrators that are close to the party line, implicitly supporting party-affiliated student groups such as the ABVP, Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad (ABVP) (translation: All Indian Student Council) to silence alternative voices, and deploying both violence and disproportionate punishment to silence student protest against the state’s authoritarian policies.

The ABVP has been reconfigured to establish the BJP agenda on university campuses, serving as both the mouthpiece of the BJP as well as an information source for surveilling over and controlling thought that is seen as critical of the BJP agenda dedicated to Hinduizing India. Moreover, the ABVP has been at the vortex of cooking up trouble and inciting violence across campuses in India.

These active measures of intervention into higher education taken by the Modi government have been orchestrated toward achieving the broader agenda of cleansing the universities of critical voices, instead reconfiguring universities to serve the right wing agendas of further privatization and saffronization of education.

The education agenda is being reworked, and turned toward the teaching of Sanskrit, the discoveries of Vedic science, and the reformulation of teaching as practical skills-building.

The BJP party attacks academic freedom.

BJP fosters censorship of books by scholars who dissent from the BJP's Hindu nationalist ideology of history.


It serves BJP's interests to foster riots. After riots more BJP candidates are elected.

BJP gains in Polls after Every Riot - Yale University/Economic Times, India



Taken in conjunction with the main result, our secondary finding that riots reduce subsequent Congress vote shares raises the possibility of a feedback loop or multiplier effect, whereby the outbreak of Hindu-Muslim violence causes Congress to lose votes and seats, which in turn leads to more riots, and so on in a vicious cycle."

Read more at:

BJP and communal violence in India



lso heavily named in the internal letters as having served as Butler’s close personal assistants are Down to Earth CEO Mark Fergusson (Mahabhagavat das) and Sunil Khemaney (Syamasundara das). The July 1987 letter regarding Krsna Katha das was signed by Mahabhagavat das. The December 1987 letter regarding the call for disciples to do whatever necessary to ensure SIF did not “run out of cash” was signed by Syamasundara das.

Khemaney now works for Rep. Gabbard, assisting her with fundraising and relations within the Hindu American community. Khemaney traveled to India with Rep. Gabbard in December 2014, and he facilitated her appearance at an August 2014 event in Atlanta hosted by Overseas Friends of BJP,


a group that supports India’s Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party.

At the Overseas Friends of BJP event, Rep. Gabbard described Khemaney as her “team member,” and said, “He’s been like an uncle to me since I was a child. And he didn’t have any involvement in politics until I ran for Congress, and now he cannot escape. He’s in this.”

One of the men who grew up deeply within SIF and requested protection of his identity described Khemaney as, “Butler’s ninja. His right-hand man.”

If the Friends of BJP open chapters in universities outside of India , there is a risk, based on what BJP has already done in India, that BJP groups in Western
Universities will establish goon squads to intimidate faculty members who teach
versions of Indian history that run counter to the BJP's ideology.

Wendy Doniger and scholars like her might find themselves attacked on any
campus where there is a BJP chapter.

Universities outside of India also give support, sometimes life saving support to Indian scholars whose findings are disliked by the BJP goons.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2017 11:17PM by corboy.

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Hindutva ideology of BJP and Friends of BJP and Tulsi
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 26, 2017 11:11PM

Anything Tulsi does appears be deeply involved with a trend in Indian politics most Americans, including American Hindus, would find deeply repugnant.

The Hindutva vision seeks India as Hindu -- Hindu according to a version of history that excludes objective evidence.

Which is why adherants of Hindutva such as the BJP foster censorship policies that attack academic freedom and dislike scholars of Indian history who go by evidence and not by Hindutva ideology.

Hindustan Times

Hinduism vs Hindutva: The search for an ideology in times of cow politics

Apr 10, 2017 09:30 IST



While some present-day Hindu nationalists have at times claimed to use the term Hindu to “denote all people who believe in, respect or follow the eternal values of life that have sprung up in Bharat” rather than a religion, they contradict that claim when those ‘eternal values’ are given a religious slant.

“Hindutva has nothing to do with Hinduism as a faith or a religion, but rather as a badge of cultural identity and an instrument of political mobilisation,” says author and Member of Parliament, Shashi Tharoor. “Hinduism is a religion without fundamentals – no founder or prophet, no organised Church, no compulsory beliefs or rites of worship, no single sacred book…What we see today as Hindutva is part of an attempt to ‘semitise’ the faith – to make Hinduism more like the ‘better-organised’ religions like Christianity and Islam, the better to resist their encroachments.”

The accuracy of Tharoor’s statement is reflected in an article on the website of the Vishva Hindu Parishad (VHP).

The Hindu nation as a mere community… was equated with the Muslims and Christians who came here as invaders and aggressors and the Parsis and Jews who came here as refugees being driven away from their respective homelands,” rues the article.

Another article on the website declares, “Hindu interest is national interest. Hence the honour of Hindutva and Hindu interests should be protected at all costs.”

A similar mission is espoused by the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) on its website: “Expressed in the simplest terms, the ideal of the Sangh is to carry the nation to the pinnacle of glory through organizing the entire society and ensuring the protection of Hindu Dharma.”



the Hindutva narrative, “in order to achieve its larger goal of Hindi, Hindu, Hindustan, has no appetite for multiple voices, schools of philosophy and even traditions from within the Hindu religion,” says Mukul, a thought that is shared by Tharoor. “They also do not recognise the resistance of lower-caste Hindus and adivasis against the dominant Brahmanical tradition,” adds Mukul. “The idea of Hindutva is to Hinduise everyone and make them read one history that glorifies the ancient Hindu past...”

It finds easy targets, feels Nandy, among “the substantial portion of Hindus who are now urbanites and out of touch with their roots. Many have very localised faiths. So, when they migrate they need a different version of Hinduism, a laptop version, that began in the 19th century. It helps the political needs of the RSS and the BJP”.

Which means Indian Hindus studying abroad may be especially vulnerable to the blandishments of groups such as Oversees Friends of the BJP which fosters
this Hindutva ideology.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 26, 2017 11:28PM

This is one situation where it is of the utmost importance to discuss specific political parties because in this case an American Congressperson associated herself with an event tied to the BJP, as seen in the news link URLs tied
to a mulitude of news reports detailing BJP violence in India.

Any non Indian who gets involved with yoga or a guru tied in any way to India
should conduct due diligence research on any guru and sect so as to learn the actual political affiliation of and past political history in India.

Your soulful guru may, behind his or her deep silences and charming giggles, actually patronize violent regressive political projects in India.

This same guru will say not a word about this when speaking to non Indian disciples.

The purchasing power of the Euro, the British Pound and the US Dollar are very, very much greater than that of the India Rupee.

Any difference in what a guru tells Westerners and what he or she says and does
back home would be considered dishonest by Western standards but is rationalized as 'skillful means' (if the guru is buddhist) or rationalized
as enlightened activity beyond the comprehension of the ignorant (Hindu)

Yeah, sure.

Or this kind of dishonesty (by Western standards) would, by Krishna cult devotees, by rationalized as one of Krishna's "pastimes" -- or as an "offering" to Krishna that only appears to be dishonest to anyone who is a 'karmi' -- anyone who is NOT a devotee of the Krishna cult, anyone who still adheres to
conventional standards of right and wrong.

So, when someone is asked if they swear in the name of God to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, ask them first which god do they truly worship and make their final offering to?

A god who cares about right versus wrong, and one of whose commandments is
thou shalt not lie, thou shalt not bear false witness

or the god of the Hare Krishnas and of Chris Butler, the dissident Hare Krishna?

a god whose devotees are beyond right and wrong, a god for whom it is virtuous to lie if in so doing, one advances the goals of that particular Krishna group and its guru - in this case, Chris Butler.

In America it is considered good manners not to ask searching and specific questions what you believe in, whether you follow a god, and if you do follow a god, is that god beyond good and evil, or does that god care about good vs evil?

Because now we are dealing with people who follow deities for whom the guru says it is OK to lie to non believers.

Because that is what Srila Prabhupada, the Hare Krishna guru taught. And Prabhupada was Chris Butlers guru.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2017 07:27AM by corboy.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: October 29, 2017 02:20AM

Excellent points, Corboy.
There is so much more to the story than people can imagine.

Excerpt from the Joseph Bismark article -


Quote: "Joseph Bismark (Japa das) grew up taking lessons from his guru who came from a long line of spiritual masters. He started learning Yoga at the tender age of nine in an ashram (spiritual community) where he lived a life of austerity. At seventeen, he took spiritual initiation from his guru and was given the spiritual name Japa Das.”

“What is the story behind QNET’s beginnings?
QNET was started in 1998 by Vijay Eswaran and Joseph Bismark in the Philippines. They were involved with an American direct selling company that suddenly disappeared, leaving them responsible for hundreds of unfulfilled product orders. They had a strong team and so decided to start their own company…”

Shortly after Bismark purchased a home for Chris Butler in the posh neighborhood of Lanikai, he was arrested and spent three months in a Jakarta jail. A follower who has seen inside this home purchased by Bismark remarked to me that it is similar to Butler’s prior home in Malibu (the Malibu home was likely rented). The mortgagor for this Butler home is Joseph Luis Eleuterio Tomacruz Bismark, husband of Zhara Kamari Saatchian. He put down 2,730.000 US dollars on this property. Lloyds TSB Bank in Singapore loaned him the balance of 546,000 US Dollars on March 26, 2007. The Attorney who handled the transaction was Mark Hazlett Esq of Cades Schutte LLP Honolulu.

Wait, it gets better. Alana Leigh Azzopardi and Kainoa Ramananda Penaroza claim to have purchased a $1.5 million Kailua home in 2011 when it was in fact purchased by Joseph Bismark, who also owns Chris Butler’s residence.
Tulsi must certainly know that her Chief of Staff and her office manager, Alana, cannot afford a $1.5 million home. That’s right, folks. Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard’s key staff members live in the home of a man arrested for fraud and who has scammed thousands of people including many in India.

Joseph Bismark has a long association with Allan Tibby probably due to Tibby’s involvement in the cult school in the Philippines. Tibby, like Bismark, was not wealthy up through the 1990’s so where did he accumulate enough cash to purchase all that New Zealand property? Bismark and Tibby were partners in corporations with unknown purposes, thus tying Bismark to the Ti-Leaf Productions gang with their drug money.” End quote.

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Some information about QNet for those who do not know
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 29, 2017 06:17AM


Butler's Web: Krishna, Politics, and QNET's International Pyramid Scheme


On the financial front, a key part of the Butler group’s business network - rooted in the Down to Earth vegetarian grocery chain and Hong Kong-based QNET’s alleged international pyramid scheme – is currently being scrutinized in the Supreme Court of India.

Our friend dharmabum posted this all the way back in 2012 on CEI in the Marketing section of the message board.

Corboy says check it out.


And here is why it is important to copy and capture anything informative

Stuff vanishes.

Five years after the Business Insider Egypt published the 2012 feature
story on QNet, that story is very difficult to access.

You can read the full article thanks to two alert entities:

CEI message board member dharmabum (see above)

A diligent volunteer at the Internet Archives


In dharmabums last essay on the QNet thread (read the whole thing)
DB writes:


Watching Joseph Bismark gives motivational speeches to wide-eyed QNET followers (victims) on YouTube, the same creeps and woowoos one gets when listening to fake gurus, full of esoteric wisdom and otherworldly tales: “I am this”, “I am that” nonsense.

For those who do not know, Science of Identity Institute is far from the “University” Joseph Bismark called it as and claimed it to be. The Haribols are a bunch of naive and impressionable hippies who are clueless about Vedic knowledge; they profess to have understood and mastered. Clueless as their egomaniac, “spiritual” leader, Siddhaswarup Chris Butler, a failed Hare Krishna GBC head of Hawaii, who insisted to the very end that he is the sole bona fide guru from a disciplic succession to be the representative of the god, Krishna, despite the consistent reproaches from the founder himself, A.C. Bhaktivedanta, his ISKCON godbrothers, and from the wider community the cult stemmed from.

To his credit, where he failed, as a renown international religious leader, Chris Butler seems to be thriving as a savvy gimmick king.

From day one, he espoused the philosophy of “dovetailing” seemingly worldly aspirations in the service of Krishna, meaning, engagement in instead of renouncing the world, encouraging his devout followers to excel in the business world and local politics.

If only they all were legitimate and honest. Hearing “whatever means necessary” rings of ISKCON’s “the end justifies the means.” The Hare Krishnas’ fall from grace. History repeats itself over and over again. It’s true: hyenas don’t change spots.

Five years ago, while insiders and ex-members were busy exposing Tulsi’s gimmickry: fund-raising campaign and Hindu claim, another gimmickry were slipping by unnoticed. Bismark claimed to be a penniless yogi when he met the money-man, Eswaran. If Christine was right, it is the other way around.

The big picture may be true and is the big expose: Patrick Bowler’s drug money. It’s a shame; it took an outsider to connect the dots. Kudos Miss Gralow!

Again, the QNet thread is over in the Cult Education Institute's MultiLevel Marketing(MLM) section.


Multi Level Marketing, readers. Like this list on Wikipedia.


QNet is tied to Chris Butler, guru to the Gabbard family, which includes US Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard.

Who swore to uphold the law and constitution of the United States of America.

What is gonna happen if a Congressional committee ever investigates the latest group of MLM groups?

Can we trust Tulsi to recuse herself from serving on such a committee due to potential conflict of interest?

She took her oath of office on the Bhagavad Gita.


And here are some verses from the beginning of the Bhagavad Gita as translated by Ann Stanford, Herder and Herder, 1970.

The BG begins with Arjuna, a great warrior facing an army composed of his relatives and teachers. He is a brave man, veteran of numerous combats.

But Arjuna decides he cannot kill his relatives, though they are his adversaries.

He speaks to his chariot driver who is the god Krishna in disguise. This is the god worshipped by Chris Butler and his disciples, including the Gabbard family.

"Teachers, fathers and sons
And fathers of fathers besides,
Uncles, fathers-in-law, grandsons
Brothers-in-law, and other kinsmen-

These I would not kill
Though they should kill me, Slayer of Madhu,
Not to be ruler of the three worlds,
How much less for a kingdom of the earth.

Krishna replies in Canto Two -- he calls Arjuna a coward for having
these misgivings!

"Where in the hour of danger
has this stain on your spirit come from?
It is in-noble, not leading to heaven,
It is inglorious, Arjuna.
Are you a coward, son of Pritha?
It is not right for you.
Shake off this petty weakness
Stand up, Scorcher of the Foe.

(Corboy, the BG is a surprising 'holy book' isn't it, eh?)

Arjuna says

How shall I send my arrows
At men worth worship, Slayer of Foes?
Better eat beggars food in the world
Than kill my masters worth revering.
If I kill such men, though they seek gain
I would eat food smeared with blood.

The god Krishna, this god who is venerated by Chris Butler and his followers,
and presumably, by Tulsi Gabbard, as she took her oath of office on the Bhagvad Gita --here is what the god Krishna says.

You grieve for those you should not
And yet you talk about wisdom
The truly taught do not mourn the dead or the living.

Krishna then teaches Arjuna that only the body dies, the
soul does not, the soul merely passes to another body

"When a man knows him as undying
Constant, never born, eternal,
How does such a man cause killing
Or when does he kill, son of Pritha?

As a man throws off his threadbare clothes
And puts on others that are new
So leaving his worn out bodies
The embodied takes other fresh ones.

Swords cannot wound him
Nor fire consume him
Nor is he drenched by water
And the wind does not wither him.

So, readers, this is the core story by which Chris Butler and his devotees
ground their ethics.

Now, who here has a conscience?

Who would you rather trust?

Arjuna, before Krishna got to him?

Or, would you trust a bloke like Krishna?

That's a core teaching in Butler's group -- that our bodies are not real.

And that comes from the Bhagavad Gita. And you have just now seen
Krishna using 'the body is not real' to coax Arjuna to ignore his compassion
and instead do his duty as a warrior and kill the people he loves.

Because it is his duty.

To whom does Tulsi owe her duty?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2017 07:07AM by corboy.

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