Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: dabcult ()
Date: December 12, 2013 03:17AM

Nice to hear a the new strong voice of AC4711

But can anything be done at this point ..other than inform ?

Butler cult is all legal ...and if he as a few thousand giving him 25% of their income ...His cult well funded $$ ....Now he got polititians to protect him

He is still young ....let not think he is dying just yet

Now with Tulsi in Washington wonder he is initiating dozen of new disciples

He can rightly say ..."look all my Hare Krishna godbrothers are a bunch of moron
who are still collecting nikels and dimes at street corners around America ...mostly under false pretenses and I have a disciple in congress ..another one in the Hawaii senate ...and we have dozens of successful buseneses in Hawaii and in other countries ....he got a few things right even if he is a meglomenia

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: December 19, 2013 09:27PM

Met a young woman at the Ben Gurion airport in Israel selling books on Krishna consciousness. She knew nothing about the history of her cult. She could not hear the truth. I had to catch a plane...

"A faith which cannot survive collision with the truth is not worth many regrets." -Arthur C. Clarke

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: AC4711 ()
Date: December 21, 2013 08:26AM

this cult is a fascinating study.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: December 22, 2013 07:22PM

Just passing on a recent email from a male exer friend:
"Just as an aside, Chris Butler's wife has a yoga show on PBS, represented by GNC, with new background music featuring Butler and "friends" chanting. So, if you choose not to "hear" from Butler, he still makes a killing on her show, products, and affiliates. What an outrageous asshole he is! On the other hand, who really gives a shit! Got other worthwhile things to achieve (but he's still an asshole)."

GNC (vitamin and supplement) company is underwriting Wai Lana Yoga on American Public Television.
Whole Foods also carries her products.

Notice Contact (known Butler follower):
Sunil Khemaney
Gold Moon Productions

Wai Lana is a cult leader's alleged wife who is worshiped as his consort by followers. She is allegedly the one who started the practice of having followers eat toenail clippings of Butler in the 1990's (in "black magic" circles, this practice is a method to bind followers to you). I am not a believer, but I find the reasoning and practice disgusting and unsanitary.

Perhaps a boycott is in order for GNC, APT, and Whole Foods? At least people should know where their time and money are going. Butler seems to be a master of disguise and camouflage hiding behind his star followers.

Camouflage (disambiguation):

Camouflage is the use of any combination of materials, coloration or illumination for concealment, either by making animals or objects hard to see (crypsis), or by disguising them as something else (mimesis).

Examples include the leopard's spotted coat, the battledress of a modern soldier, and the leaf-mimic katydid's wings.

A third approach, motion dazzle, confuses the observer with a conspicuous pattern, making the object visible but momentarily harder to locate. The majority of camouflage methods aim for crypsis, often through a general resemblance to the background, high contrast disruptive coloration, eliminating shadow, and countershading.

In the open ocean, where there is no background, the principal methods of camouflage are transparency, silvering, and countershading, while the ability to produce light is among other things used for counter-illumination on the undersides of cephalopods such as squid. Some animals, such as chameleons and octopuses, are capable of actively changing their skin pattern and colours, whether for camouflage or for signalling...

Like any con man, Butler appears (or does not appear) to have mastered all forms of psychological camouflage from unsuspecting new initiates. But where is the motivation for the political leaders and owned press to expose "Jagged Guru Fraud" when the cult can produce such a formidable political block of donors and manpower for the ruling Democratic Party in Hawaii? Doesn't this make anyone mad!?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2013 07:39PM by Vera City.

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GNC and Whole Foods
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: December 22, 2013 10:06PM

Makes me angry.

Back when I was a fitness buff, I bought powerbars and vitamins at GNC outlets all the time.

At the risk of distracting from Butler, here is a wee bit about Whole Foods

A bit or two about Whole Foods


"According to Mackey (CEO), “capitalism has a serious branding problem…the recent recession was…blamed on greedy financial corporations, deregulation, and capitalism---market failures—rather than on bad government regulations and monetary policies—government failures.” And, Mackey doesn’t believe we can count on the media and educators to address this misperception. As he states, “Business has been hated by the intellectuals and elites for all time.” Mackey’s PowerPoint presentation provided a compelling reason for this hatred: “Intellectuals resent having less money than ‘less intelligent’ businesspeople, and their status is much lower in a capitalistic society.”

Whole Foods and unions


WF Wild Oats anti trust case settled.


(quote_"The U.S. Federal Trade Commission challenged Whole Foods' 2007 purchase of smaller rival Wild Oats, saying it was concerned about loss of competition in 29 markets.

"We're getting relief in 17 (markets). It substantially restores the competition that was lost," said David Wales, director of the FTC's Bureau of Competition.

John Mackey, chairman and co-founder of Whole Foods, called the deal "mutually satisfactory."

"We believe it was in the best interests of all our stakeholders to resolve this matter," he said.

Pali Research analyst Robert Summers said the 13 stores being sold "seem to be huge underperformers."

"When you look at them having to close these stores, they're like, 'OK twist my arm,'" he said. "Given the range of potential outcomes, this is definitely a win

Now, back to Butler and Company

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: dabcult ()
Date: December 24, 2013 09:00AM

Chris Butler was very quick to ask his disciples to bow down to him and call him "PRABHUPAD" but over the years research of the books of Prabhupad as shown that he was a racist ...a person that denigrated woman ..and call homosexuals DEMONIACS
but the most shoking of all quotes are his quotes stating that women "enjoy being rape " I made a video on the subject


Chris Butler keeps asking people to call him PRABHUPAD ...he is himself a homosexual hater ...a meglomeniac ....and as probably no idea of the gravity of those quotes
he is interested being worship giving himself names like PRABHUPAD and PARAMAHANSA is a sort of hypnosis tool to get he followers believing that he is so special ...and keep the money roloing in

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: January 05, 2014 04:10AM

Here are some more interesting links from a young man you grew up in Butler's cult. While he is never explicit in identifying what group he was born into or what 'guru-ette' declared him "enlightened", he reveals the powerful damages wrought on both followers and leaders in the cult. He also does not go into much depth about the specifics of the philosophy or practices of his youth in any of his writings. I would hope that in future writings that he would expand upon this. He generally glosses it over with a varnish of generalizations, perhaps to protect family members still in the cult or to protect himself from litigation. At any rate, in spite of deftly handling the specifics, he still allegedly received death threats for his book Wet Hot and Wild American Yogi: A Memoir

Back Story
Thanks to both of his parents, Shyam Dodge was exceptionally well educated for a kid in Butler's cult. He has become infinitely more educated than his former guru and most of his followers. It is surprising because classic education was frowned upon by the cult.

His parents at first followed Chris Butler and then moved on to Kathy Hoshijo aka "Katyayani". Butler declared Kathy Hoshijo a pure devotee early on and groomed her for both a failed political career and to be the vegetarian promoter in her PBS natural foods cooking show "Kathy Cooks Naturally".

"Katyayani" went on to follow Butler's methods and set herself up as a guru in Southern California. Shyam Dodge's parents became her devotees. Years later, Katyayani declared Shyam "enlightened" which was the catalyst for life altering events documented in his book Wet Hot & Wild American Yogi

Here are his thoughts. My additions are in square brackets. On Being A Guru

Shyam Dodge
I was once a guru. But before that I was a monk. Raised to be a prophet from birth by devout parents of the Eastern Wisdom traditions. [A reductive branch of ISKCON/Gaudiya Vaishnavism led by one of AC Bhaktivedanta's Goswamis, "Siddhaswarupananda" aka Chris Butler] I was a masochist for enlightenment. I had many followers, disciples of my every word and gesture. Then, in my earliest adulthood, I was crowned with spiritual enlightenment by my master [Katyayani/ Kathy Hoshijo]. The declaration of my enlightened sainthood dispelled a long-held illusion,
and not the one expected.

I had lived my whole life in a panoptic* community with my master sitting in the high tower, the invisible all-seeing guru, my every innermost thought a knowable object in the transcendent sphere that she (my master) resided in. Yet, I knew something she didn’t: I was nowhere near the myth of the Buddha [actually "Krishna" and the myth of the "pure devotee"]. I was addicted to the idea of perfection, but my body, my genitals, my quivering flesh kept getting in the way. This lack of insight, on the part of my master, was a disruptive force.

The master, I had idealized, now conferred upon me the imperial cloth of the guru, but it was invisible, I couldn’t grasp it. In that moment I saw her nakedness and my own. We both fell short of the myth.
I have three things to say:
My life as a guru was a constant violence to my humanity.
My life as a disciple of a master was a constant violence to my humanity.
My life as a guru was a constant violence to the humanity of my disciples.

It is the myth of enlightenment, of supernatural wholeness, that produces this destructive idealism. The guru tradition is an industry of illusion and coercive dupery, which fragments, erases, and replaces our humanity with an impossible ideal of perfection.

* the word panoptic is an excellent description of the Butler cult. From Wikipedia: "The Panopticon is a type of institutional building designed by the English philosopher and social theorist Jeremy Bentham in the late 18th century. The concept of the design is to allow a single watchman to observe (-opticon) all (pan-) inmates of an institution without them being able to tell whether they are being watched or not. Although it is physically impossible for the single watchman to observe all cells at once, the fact that the inmates cannot know when they are being watched means that all inmates must act as though they are watched at all times, effectively controlling their own behavior constantly. The name is also a reference to Panoptes from Greek mythology; he was a giant with a hundred eyes and thus was known to be a very effective watchman."

Shyam continues
In order to teach my students, on the path toward perfection, I had to invalidate their shadows, their imperfections, so that they could realize an impossible ideal. I was in a constant process of deconstructing, negating through fierce Jnana, their essential embodiedness, their fully human psychology, and replacing it with an idea. They, on the other hand, had to ignore my essential imperfection, in order to continue idealizing me as a master.This circular delusion and co-deception constructed a community entirely disconnected from the world our bodies resided in.
As a guru I was a sadist.
Shyam's Thesis
Thesis: Guru-Masochism underpins the dynamic of master-student. Some experience their interiority, their own minds, as a kind of tyrant; as if they were a subject to a punishing inner despot. In anguish and desperation they seek out an external tyrant, a guru, to subjugate the internal master. Suicide can be averted via a kind of spiritual masochism, the bending and submitting of the will to a dominatrix of the psyche.The myth is that the spiritual master has transcended their subjectivity, their own discrete skull-sized kingdom, and is now capable of liberating others.To submit to such a guru is a deep form of masochism, for the idea of spiritual liberation is unattainable, and so the effort to escape the inner jailer is forever frustrated by subjectivity itself–or at least as long as the person is alive.In my role as a sadist, my humanity was slowly being replaced with an archetype, an idea of an autocratic master of the spiritual domain. And my students were being dehumanized through my psychological tortures. Symbols are symbols; human beings are human beings.It was for this reason I left being a guru. A few weeks after being declared fully “realized” I couldn’t rationalize my own suffering or the suffering I was inflicting on others. I was done with enlightenment.

Leonard Cohen

“For many years I was known as a monk. I shaved my head and wore robes and got up very early. I hated everyone but acted generously and no one found me out. My reputation as a ladies man was a joke. It caused me to laugh bitterly through the ten thousand nights I spent alone.”

From Setting the Table for the (Imaginary) Feast of Knowledge

Shyam Dodge
I know firsthand what it is to be addicted to the idea of perfection, but my body, my genitals, my quivering flesh keeps getting in the way. I know what is to have one’s personhood replaced with a fantasy of spiritual perfection, but, again, my humanity keeps getting in the way. I know what it is to have profound experiences with no good explanations. Spirituality devoid of psychological coherence is crazy-making. It is the price one pays for adopting an archaic metaphysics that remains resistant to modernity. I know what it is to prefer a dream of enlightenment over the tenuous, often difficult, reality of being human.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: January 19, 2014 04:42AM

Yes, topically this is humorous. I assure you that Butler and his cult are not. However a little brevity now and then is not unwarranted. Just remember that in the humor lies a major kernel of Truth. For those that want to find out what makes Butler tick, it is quite simple- Money and Control. Both decidedly not spiritual leanings. Beware, oh Neophyte.
Heavily borrowed from another web site, I have taken the liberty to chang a few words, but the setting was oh so perfect for Chris Butler and his not so merry band of pranksters who, one day, would like to reside in the White House.


"Butler Admits He Rarely Forgives
News Religion God News • Jan 16, 2014

Krishna Loka—Calling into question decades of personally concocted and heavily skewed religious dogma and commonly held psycho-babble half-truths, Srila Prabupad our Lord and Supreme Guru of the Universe, admitted Tuesday, that in actuality it is “extremely rare” for him to ever forgive an individual.

Speaking to reporters, the Paramahamsa, who admitted that he is “generally motivated more by anger and spite than forgiveness,” reiterated that being forgiving is “not in his nature,” and on the whole constitutes a small part of what the Srila does every day and what he feels he should do every day.
“I do not particularly enjoy absolving humans of their earthly transgressions—I prefer to punish the wicked, hold grudges for thousands of years, curse entire regions and ethnicities for the sins of a few, and so forth,” said Butler, the Master. “I typically ignore the words and deeds of the repentant and make a concerted effort to restrict any such individual from ever being in my company in the Kingdom of Krishna. I like paper bags! I also take particular satisfaction, even glee, in repeatedly punishing those who have sinned at any point in their lives and are endeavoring to gain my forgiveness through prayer and devotional [slave] labor.”

“Essentially, only individuals who have lived lives of unblemished goodness and have given me their soul-money-first born- shall receive my love and charity,” he added. “Otherwise, it is exceedingly rare for me to forgive any living creature who has erred in my eyes, least of all a Karmi.”
While acknowledging “perhaps 3 or 4” total instances in the last several decades in which he has forgiven a person who is truly sorry for committing a sinful act, “La Butler” confirmed to reporters that such instances are, statistically speaking, tremendous anomalies, and may have in fact been the result of simple negligence on his part rather than any genuine feelings of mercy.

Concurrently, the Supreme Guru of the Whole Universe estimated the number of human beings he has not forgiven in the same span of time at approximately 80 billion.
“Last evening, an individual from the North American continent requested that I forgive him for absconding an article of clothing from a nearby business establishment, and I refused to do so,” Butler said. “I also refused to forgive a woman who had disciplined her child too harshly, a man who had told a lie to his wife, a young boy who had taken my name in vain, and roughly 200 million others, all in one night, for this is simply my way.”
“And my way cannot be questioned or subverted,” he continued.

Prappie went on to concede that while he understands why humans would, on a purely selfish level, seek to absolve themselves of wrongdoing, it would nonetheless be “an extraordinary waste of time and energy” for any human to seek Butler’s forgiveness in such a case, and that doing so may in fact only incur a greater degree of his wrath.
In particular, Srila P told reporters he holds a special contempt for those who ask for his mercy tearfully, with hands clasped tightly, while fully prostrated, or in one’s final moments before dying.
“It is neither my duty nor my inclination to make human beings feel better about who they are or what they do during their short time on earth,” he said. “What does forgiving a human being do for me? How is it to my benefit? It is not. I have held dominion over the cosmos quite successfully for quite some time and I have done so without need or want of a forgiving disposition, and so it is and so it shall always be. I am that I am.”
“If you seek mercy and forgiveness, seek it in your own heart and see if your heart grants it to you,” he continued. “Although, to be honest, I don’t especially care what you do. Just keep $ending me your ca$h.
End Quote.

Run dear Souls, run. You will not find what you seek within this cult.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: January 19, 2014 05:12AM

I recently chanced upon this entry in another forum, written by one of our regular posters. Although it is about another Guru (Amma) the reasons cited for yet another devotee having to escape a cult, holds true for Butler's cult as well. Just change the name! I personally know a few ex-ers that would agree with Gail's list. She has written a book about her 20 year ordeal in the same manner as Shyam Dodge had done. Both brave authors must constantly be on guard for retribution from their respective cults.

Again, dear Readers, why torture yourselves. Do your research on the Butler cult.
Gail's 40 points listed below are nearly identical to what Butler's ex-devotees also experienced.

It is a disease.

Quoted from Rituals of Disenchantment by new
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 27, 2013 04:22PM

Gail/Gayatri Tredwell's book, Holy Hell is now available on Amazon

We can bet that followers of Amma, who has made untold millions of dollars, will scream objections at Treadwell for earning one penny for this book.

The recurring theme in all cults is unreciprocated loyalty.


".....As reported in Guruphiliac, the longtime personal assistant of the hugging saint (as Amritananda is affectionately known) fled her 20-year gig and her Guru's ashram under cover of darkness. After many years spent hiding and in silence, Gail Tredwell found her way to the exAmma Yahoo chat board, joined the site and "came out" to the community a year or so ago with an open letter that details 40 reasons why she left. She is currently writing a book about her experiences."

I've excerpted her letter below, which can be read in its entirety on the French website Le Blog Des Infidèles. The blog owner has also posted an interview with Gayatri, or Gail, there (in English). And any of you who may miss the "the Guru is an omniscient being who is beyond being judged by the standards of normal human behavior" line of bunk, there is a very long and belabored and nine-kinds-of-crazy example posted by an unhinged individual by the likely name of Ram Das in the comments section of the same blog.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

To explain for those who don't know who I am/was. I was Amma's personal attendant for 20 years. I arrived in Jan. 1980 when she was Sudhamani living with her parents and left in Nov. 1999. I was nicknamed 'Amma's shadow' because I was constantly by her side and lived in her quarters. I can speak fluent Malayalam so language was never a barrier to understand what was going on. It would not be an exaggeration to say I know her better than anyone in the world.

"A few days after I escaped, when I was still in hiding, feeling hunted I sat at my laptop and wrote down the reasons why I chose to leave. I wrote them as a reminder in case I ever forgot. After writing it 12 years ago I read it again for the first time just now. I have not edited it...thought I should leave it in it's raw state. Hopefully, this will answer some of your questions.

Reasons why I left the Ashram

1. Loss of faith

2. Not happy for years

3. No harmony amongst seniors

4. No manners from the seniors

5. Too much politics between the seniors

6. No love between the seniors

7. I felt extremely unloved

8. And unsupported

9. And untrusted

10. Absolutely worn out on every level

11. Too much stress

12. Routine too gruelling

13. Never any concern given for physical well being nor emotions which are alsoa very important part of spirituality

14. Partiality shown between the men and women, east and west, rich and poor

15. Swamis arrogance, back stabbing, cruelty, hatred, power struggles.

16. Amma's obvious favouritism towards them

17. Giving too much money and gold to her family members and at the same time denied Suneeti private hospitalisation.

18. Too many secret things going on.

19. Too much scheming, plotting, planning and suspicion

20. No sweet spiritual feeling of love or compassion from amma behind the scenesonly anger, gossip, criticism, revenge, suspicion, business, violence or secretmeetings with the swamis.

21. Terrorism - in a subtle sense not with guns or anything.

22. Violence (mental, emotional, psychological and physical.

23. Horrible yelling and shrieking like a demon

24. Constant accusing me of being a good for nothing and always angry at mewhich always would make my guts cringe and constantly putting me down.

25. Not allowed to feel happy, if you do you should be guilty

26. Guilt if you rest, laugh, take care of your body

27. Money, money, money that is the main aim and you are good if you try and make as much as you can for the ashram even if you squeeze. Amma used to praise people for this

28. Lying, cheating

29. Copying from other writers and books then using amma's name on them andcalling it her teachings. Also none of the speeches which were made at U.N. or Chicago were her own, they were Swamijis from some books or possibly his head that I don't know.

30. Having to tell untrue miracles in talks, she herself would make them up for us.

31. Worn out from heat and crowds and the culture of India, also the jail like lifestyle in the Indian ashram

32. Suppressed and oppress and even hit and abused constantly by the swamis.

33. Too many institutions and projects but not enough capable people to runthem, therefore endless problems which would then fall on my head.

34. Never been understood, or acknowledges for any participation which I had inthe ashram. Never been considered in any major decisions to be made even if it was which girls should get yellow. Even that swamiji would try and decide,until I would put my foot down.

35. Not enough protection given to girls sent to branches. Just go! Whether theyhave a place to stay or not no problem, whether they are by themselves in a hugeschool overnight, no problem.

36. No questions allowed. Just shut your mouth or you will be considered for treason, betrayal and a cheat, you are unloyal to amma and the ashram.

37. Scandalous the way the flats have been built, so much money charged, nomaintenance even though the people pay the same. D block has been built rightin the face of A and B. The buildings were not even finished properly with cracks everywhere and sloppy cement everywhere. Plumbing stinks and leaks all over the steps. Try and maintain and keep clean the existing ones before starting more skyscrapers.

38. The residents i.e. Indian are not fed properly. They are also overworked.Even amma would criticize that some girls were drinking milk, she would tell tos ell all the fruit and not to give the residents. I would still give it now and then. They all look so anemic.

39. Amma's obvious revenge and hatred towards anybody who has left the ashram. Getting even with them, not allowing them to move on or get a job `let themsuffer for a while' her famous quote. Where is understanding and forgiveness,compassion that she teaches so strongly about. Okay, yes she doesn't want to encourage anybody to leave but is keeping them in the ashram by fear of the future or the consequences healthy.

40. Only Hinduism is any good, narrow minded attitude of the swamis against Christianity. Only your guru is any good.

"I understand that my list of reasons was I said it was written years ago when I was in a state of trauma. Without going into too much detail I will try to clarify some of your questions. Many of the topics have been covered in detail in my book and will give a clear and rounded understanding with specific details and examples.
Yours sincerely, Gail a.k.a. Gayatri

End quote.

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Acquired Situational Narcissism
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: February 07, 2014 09:53PM

This will help exers and kids who grew up in the cult understand how Chris Butler became a crazy guru.

Acquired Situational Narcissism

Sam Vaknin, Author of "Malignant Self Love; Narcissism Revisted"
Pathological narcissism can be induced in adulthood by celebrity, wealth, and fame. The "victims" - billionaire tycoons, movie stars, renowned authors, politicians, and other authority figures - develop grandiose fantasies, lose their erstwhile ability to empathize, react with rage to slights, both real and imagined and, in general, act like textbook narcissists.

What do you think? Spot on?

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