Bnei Baruch anyone?
Posted by:
outtathere
()
Date: January 11, 2007 11:12PM
I want to post just a few more "bits" of information, and links, that might lead one to, at the very least, think that there is something more going on with Bnei Baruch, and the Bleep film in question. I mean, you really do get the impression that BB LIKES THIS MOVIE, and that they took all possible advantage of the supposed connection between its "truth" and kabbalah's "truth."
I have given links here, and just small quotes from each. Drawing the same conclusions I have, is, of course, optional. Any emphasis in quotes is mine.
From:
[www.kabbalah.info]
"In March 2005, Dr. Laitman held a successful public meeting in San Francisco California with leading American scientists, contributors to the hit docudrama What the Bleep Do We Know?"[/color:b872fccb33]
From:
[www.kabbalah.info]
“TEL AVIV, July 31 (UPI) — Science explains the mechanisms that sustain life; Kabbalah explains why life exists. In his new book, Kabbalah, Science and the Meaning of Life, Rav Michael Laitman, Kabbalist and scientist, combines science and spirituality in a captivating dialogue that reveals life's meaning.
The book is mainly based on Laitman's meetings and discussions with What the Bleep Do We Know!? scientists Fred Alan Wolf, William Tiller and Jeffrey Satinover, that took place in San Francisco in March of 2005.” [/color:b872fccb33]
more evidence of Skippy's point here:
From: [www.kabbalah.info]
Preface to the Book of Zohar
“…Yesterday, I saw a film called "What the Bleep Do We Know?". They've discovered something that they consider a great discovery: if a certain form does not exist within me in advance, I cannot perceive it on the outside.
As an example, they used the story about the Indians who stood on the ocean shore and looked at Columbus's armada arriving. [i:b872fccb33][b:b872fccb33]They could not see the ships even though they were looking at them.[/b:b872fccb33][/i:b872fccb33] [b:b872fccb33]The scientists said[/b:b872fccb33] that the Indians could not see the ships because there was no model of something similar already existing in their minds. It doesn't have to be exactly this kind of a ship, it might be a different kind, but it has to be something that already exists and can serve as a Kli, a tool to perceive what is on the outside. If that inner Kli to perceive what is on the outside doesn't already exist within us, we will not perceive it.”[/color:b872fccb33] [my emphasis—and this is Laitman speaking, btw]
From:
[www.kabbalah.info]
“Dr. Satinover, who represents the perspective of quantum physics, opened the discussion by disagreeing with the link made between quantum theory and spirituality in[i:b872fccb33] What the Bleep Do We Know!? [/i:b872fccb33]He immediately drew a line between the two worlds - physical and spiritual - saying that while modern quantum theory invites one to spiritual questioning, it cannot say anything about the spiritual realm.
The film encourages people to focus on one of life's fundamental questions: "What is reality?" It also stimulates people to think beyond a commonly accepted scientific worldview; one that treats everything in our world as coming from, in Satinover's words, "a dead, mechanical object." In other words, it is a worldview that considers every living thing to be unfeelingly machine-driven, as if under the control of some super-computer.”[/color:b872fccb33]
From:
[www.kabbalah.info]
This page has a link to the movie’s direct site. Now please notice again, this flyer (and many other informational blurbs on the BB site) implies a greater connection to BB and kabbalah and the information in the movie than Markos would have us believe. One can surmise two things: that BB wants you to believe that the Bleep movie imparts wisdom about the nature of reality, and that kabbalah has been teaching this same wisdom, all along. Oh, and since when is Laitman the “world’s foremost Kabbalist”? Says who? Is he “foremost” because Bnei Baruch has increasingly been able to place his name and the organization in the media? I wonder what other fellows in the world who consider themselves kabbalists think of this ranking.
From:
[www.kabbalah.info]
“April was also very uplifting, especially when Jeffrey Satinover, M.D., one of the scientists from the hit movie What The Bleep Do We Know spoke about quantum physics at the Fifth International Kabbalah Congress. That was following a very successful panel event in San Francisco where bleep scientists Fred Alan Wolf, PhD, William Tiller, PhD, and Jeffrey Satinover, M.D., met up with foremost Kabbalist Michael Laitman in a panel discussion called, Quantum Physics and Theology Meet Kabbalah – the long hidden science of the how and why of reality.”[/color:b872fccb33][This para. also gives a direct link to promotion for the film What The Bleep Do We Know]
Lord of the Wind Films?
More here:
[www.culteducation.com]
“…The breakdown of strict reductionism has become common knowledge among scientists, and yet Amit Goswami, John Hagelin, and Fred Alan Wolf, to mention just three from the film, have not caught up with this way of thinking about science. They prefer to remain within the old-fashioned paradigm that supposes that everything is indeed nothing but physics. This is not entirely surprising, given that each of them earns money writing books about popular physics laced with allusions to Eastern mysticism and the "really big questions in life." But now their knowledge of quantum mechanics is even allowing them to become movie stars and, better still, in a movie that is changing people's lives!”[/color:b872fccb33]
From:
[www.kabbalah.info]
“Science explains the mechanisms that sustain life; Kabbalah explains why life exists. In Kabbalah, Science and the Meaning of Life, Rav Michael Laitman, PhD, a Kabbalist and a scientist, combines science and spirituality in a captivating dialogue that reveals life’s meaning.
For thousands of years Kabbalists have been writing that the world is made of a single entity divided into separate beings. Today the cutting edge science of quantum physics states a very similar idea: that at the most fundamental level of matter, we are all literally one.
Science proves that reality is affected by the observer who examines it. And so does Kabbalah. But Kabbalah says more: even the Creator of reality is found within the observer. In other words, God is inside of us, he doesn’t exist anywhere else. When we pass away so does he.
These earthshaking concepts and more are eloquently introduced so that even readers uneducated in Kabbalah or science will easily understand them. Therefore, if you’re just a little curious about why you are here, what life means, and what you can do to enjoy it more, this is your book.”[/color:b872fccb33]
From:
[ramtha.com]
Truth Verified by Experience
The teachings of Ramtha are a unique science. It requires very careful examination and consideration in order to grasp the full meaning and impact of its content. Ramtha's teachings address the fundamental questions about human existence and the human person, our origins and destiny, good and evil, the soul, death and life, the world, our relationship to others, and the nature of space, time, and the fabric of reality. The teachings are not simply an intellectual dissertation on specific subjects or a mere intellectual analysis of them, nor are they a form of revealed truth that requires the blind allegiance of faith. Ramtha's teachings are not a new religion, nor are they the building blocks of a new church. They offer us a unique perspective from which to view the mystery of life. They offer us a framework in which the questions that have remained unanswered by philosophy, science, and religion find a new meaning and a new setting for their personal experience. Ramtha's teachings can broaden the scope of human experience far beyond the boundaries set by science and the various religions of the world to this day. Ramtha's science is the personal truth that was gained and verified by the experience of a member of the human race. In this sense it is Ramtha's knowledge, Ramtha's science. And now that the path has been trodden upon, the doors are open for those who desire to explore it and make their own journey into the unknown.
Who Is Ramtha?
Ramtha is an ancient warrior, conqueror, and ascended Master who lived 35,000 years ago…
…Ramtha chose JZ Knight and prepared her to channel him, using her body to teach his message in person. A channel is different from a medium in that the channel is not the intermediary between the consciousness coming through her and the audience. The channel does not remain in a transfixed altered state while channeling; rather she leaves her body completely and allows the consciousness coming through to have full faculty over all her bodily movements and functions. Ramtha, while being channeled through JZ Knight, has the ability to open his eyes, walk, dance, eat and drink, laugh, speak, converse, and teach his students personally. JZ Knight is the only channel he has chosen and uses to deliver his message.[/color:b872fccb33]
[b:b872fccb33]Ah, it's a SCIENCE! Amazing![/b:b872fccb33][/color:b872fccb33]
According to my understanding: Michael Laitman and kabbalists before him claim that we have kabbalistic wisdom about the “upper worlds” (and thus, the reality of this one) only as a result of teachings that have been handed down from the earth’s kabbalists, who were actually, all the same soul. (really!)
“We notice the first manifestation of egoism in the appearance of Adam. There were people on Earth even before him, but a point in the heart did not manifest in them. It manifested for the first time in Adam. Starting from him, in accordance with the souls' root, this process commenced in our world. Next time this point in the heart manifested in Abraham, later - in Moses. For the fourth time it arose in Rashbi, the fifth - in ARI, and the last time in Baal HaSulam.
All these Kabbalists were embodiments of the same soul, which descends into our world and creates in it certain Kabbalistic method, fit for its generation."[/color:b872fccb33]
from:
[www.kabbalah.info]
An interesting notion, isn’t it? Is it any more believable than JZ Knight’s fanciful “channeling” of the wisdom, so called, of a 35,000-year-old “Ascended Master”?
A year ago, in [www.kabbalahforwomen.com]
this was said about the BB/Laitman/Bleep connection:
"Special Effects Bleep Zohar Lesson (Clip)
[u:b872fccb33][b:b872fccb33]The release of the movie What The Bleep was a pretty major turning point - finally we found a connection between standard media channels and authentic kabbalah from Israel. [/b:b872fccb33][/u:b872fccb33]
Kabbalist Rav Laitman was all over it in this Special Effects Bleep Zohar Lesson (video clip) where he is talking about walking through walls and how one thing can be in two places at the same time - truly one of the most entertaining lessons ever! Then the video team went all out making this really cool clip featuring Fred Alan Wolf and Jeffrey Satinover who have since become closely acquainted with Rav Laitman and the concepts of Kabbalah." [/color:b872fccb33]
Sadly, the link in that article to the “entertaining” video is now 404. Maybe it was a little too entertaining for general public viewing? One wonders, though, if Michael Laitman can walk through walls yet. I suppose walking on water is next.
I have given links here, and just small quotes from each. Drawing the same conclusions I have, is, of course, optional. Any emphasis in quotes is mine.
From:
[www.kabbalah.info]
"In March 2005, Dr. Laitman held a successful public meeting in San Francisco California with leading American scientists, contributors to the hit docudrama What the Bleep Do We Know?"[/color:b872fccb33]
From:
[www.kabbalah.info]
“TEL AVIV, July 31 (UPI) — Science explains the mechanisms that sustain life; Kabbalah explains why life exists. In his new book, Kabbalah, Science and the Meaning of Life, Rav Michael Laitman, Kabbalist and scientist, combines science and spirituality in a captivating dialogue that reveals life's meaning.
The book is mainly based on Laitman's meetings and discussions with What the Bleep Do We Know!? scientists Fred Alan Wolf, William Tiller and Jeffrey Satinover, that took place in San Francisco in March of 2005.” [/color:b872fccb33]
more evidence of Skippy's point here:
From: [www.kabbalah.info]
Preface to the Book of Zohar
“…Yesterday, I saw a film called "What the Bleep Do We Know?". They've discovered something that they consider a great discovery: if a certain form does not exist within me in advance, I cannot perceive it on the outside.
As an example, they used the story about the Indians who stood on the ocean shore and looked at Columbus's armada arriving. [i:b872fccb33][b:b872fccb33]They could not see the ships even though they were looking at them.[/b:b872fccb33][/i:b872fccb33] [b:b872fccb33]The scientists said[/b:b872fccb33] that the Indians could not see the ships because there was no model of something similar already existing in their minds. It doesn't have to be exactly this kind of a ship, it might be a different kind, but it has to be something that already exists and can serve as a Kli, a tool to perceive what is on the outside. If that inner Kli to perceive what is on the outside doesn't already exist within us, we will not perceive it.”[/color:b872fccb33] [my emphasis—and this is Laitman speaking, btw]
From:
[www.kabbalah.info]
“Dr. Satinover, who represents the perspective of quantum physics, opened the discussion by disagreeing with the link made between quantum theory and spirituality in[i:b872fccb33] What the Bleep Do We Know!? [/i:b872fccb33]He immediately drew a line between the two worlds - physical and spiritual - saying that while modern quantum theory invites one to spiritual questioning, it cannot say anything about the spiritual realm.
The film encourages people to focus on one of life's fundamental questions: "What is reality?" It also stimulates people to think beyond a commonly accepted scientific worldview; one that treats everything in our world as coming from, in Satinover's words, "a dead, mechanical object." In other words, it is a worldview that considers every living thing to be unfeelingly machine-driven, as if under the control of some super-computer.”[/color:b872fccb33]
From:
[www.kabbalah.info]
This page has a link to the movie’s direct site. Now please notice again, this flyer (and many other informational blurbs on the BB site) implies a greater connection to BB and kabbalah and the information in the movie than Markos would have us believe. One can surmise two things: that BB wants you to believe that the Bleep movie imparts wisdom about the nature of reality, and that kabbalah has been teaching this same wisdom, all along. Oh, and since when is Laitman the “world’s foremost Kabbalist”? Says who? Is he “foremost” because Bnei Baruch has increasingly been able to place his name and the organization in the media? I wonder what other fellows in the world who consider themselves kabbalists think of this ranking.
From:
[www.kabbalah.info]
“April was also very uplifting, especially when Jeffrey Satinover, M.D., one of the scientists from the hit movie What The Bleep Do We Know spoke about quantum physics at the Fifth International Kabbalah Congress. That was following a very successful panel event in San Francisco where bleep scientists Fred Alan Wolf, PhD, William Tiller, PhD, and Jeffrey Satinover, M.D., met up with foremost Kabbalist Michael Laitman in a panel discussion called, Quantum Physics and Theology Meet Kabbalah – the long hidden science of the how and why of reality.”[/color:b872fccb33][This para. also gives a direct link to promotion for the film What The Bleep Do We Know]
Lord of the Wind Films?
More here:
[www.culteducation.com]
“…The breakdown of strict reductionism has become common knowledge among scientists, and yet Amit Goswami, John Hagelin, and Fred Alan Wolf, to mention just three from the film, have not caught up with this way of thinking about science. They prefer to remain within the old-fashioned paradigm that supposes that everything is indeed nothing but physics. This is not entirely surprising, given that each of them earns money writing books about popular physics laced with allusions to Eastern mysticism and the "really big questions in life." But now their knowledge of quantum mechanics is even allowing them to become movie stars and, better still, in a movie that is changing people's lives!”[/color:b872fccb33]
From:
[www.kabbalah.info]
“Science explains the mechanisms that sustain life; Kabbalah explains why life exists. In Kabbalah, Science and the Meaning of Life, Rav Michael Laitman, PhD, a Kabbalist and a scientist, combines science and spirituality in a captivating dialogue that reveals life’s meaning.
For thousands of years Kabbalists have been writing that the world is made of a single entity divided into separate beings. Today the cutting edge science of quantum physics states a very similar idea: that at the most fundamental level of matter, we are all literally one.
Science proves that reality is affected by the observer who examines it. And so does Kabbalah. But Kabbalah says more: even the Creator of reality is found within the observer. In other words, God is inside of us, he doesn’t exist anywhere else. When we pass away so does he.
These earthshaking concepts and more are eloquently introduced so that even readers uneducated in Kabbalah or science will easily understand them. Therefore, if you’re just a little curious about why you are here, what life means, and what you can do to enjoy it more, this is your book.”[/color:b872fccb33]
From:
[ramtha.com]
Truth Verified by Experience
The teachings of Ramtha are a unique science. It requires very careful examination and consideration in order to grasp the full meaning and impact of its content. Ramtha's teachings address the fundamental questions about human existence and the human person, our origins and destiny, good and evil, the soul, death and life, the world, our relationship to others, and the nature of space, time, and the fabric of reality. The teachings are not simply an intellectual dissertation on specific subjects or a mere intellectual analysis of them, nor are they a form of revealed truth that requires the blind allegiance of faith. Ramtha's teachings are not a new religion, nor are they the building blocks of a new church. They offer us a unique perspective from which to view the mystery of life. They offer us a framework in which the questions that have remained unanswered by philosophy, science, and religion find a new meaning and a new setting for their personal experience. Ramtha's teachings can broaden the scope of human experience far beyond the boundaries set by science and the various religions of the world to this day. Ramtha's science is the personal truth that was gained and verified by the experience of a member of the human race. In this sense it is Ramtha's knowledge, Ramtha's science. And now that the path has been trodden upon, the doors are open for those who desire to explore it and make their own journey into the unknown.
Who Is Ramtha?
Ramtha is an ancient warrior, conqueror, and ascended Master who lived 35,000 years ago…
…Ramtha chose JZ Knight and prepared her to channel him, using her body to teach his message in person. A channel is different from a medium in that the channel is not the intermediary between the consciousness coming through her and the audience. The channel does not remain in a transfixed altered state while channeling; rather she leaves her body completely and allows the consciousness coming through to have full faculty over all her bodily movements and functions. Ramtha, while being channeled through JZ Knight, has the ability to open his eyes, walk, dance, eat and drink, laugh, speak, converse, and teach his students personally. JZ Knight is the only channel he has chosen and uses to deliver his message.[/color:b872fccb33]
[b:b872fccb33]Ah, it's a SCIENCE! Amazing![/b:b872fccb33][/color:b872fccb33]
According to my understanding: Michael Laitman and kabbalists before him claim that we have kabbalistic wisdom about the “upper worlds” (and thus, the reality of this one) only as a result of teachings that have been handed down from the earth’s kabbalists, who were actually, all the same soul. (really!)
“We notice the first manifestation of egoism in the appearance of Adam. There were people on Earth even before him, but a point in the heart did not manifest in them. It manifested for the first time in Adam. Starting from him, in accordance with the souls' root, this process commenced in our world. Next time this point in the heart manifested in Abraham, later - in Moses. For the fourth time it arose in Rashbi, the fifth - in ARI, and the last time in Baal HaSulam.
All these Kabbalists were embodiments of the same soul, which descends into our world and creates in it certain Kabbalistic method, fit for its generation."[/color:b872fccb33]
from:
[www.kabbalah.info]
An interesting notion, isn’t it? Is it any more believable than JZ Knight’s fanciful “channeling” of the wisdom, so called, of a 35,000-year-old “Ascended Master”?
A year ago, in [www.kabbalahforwomen.com]
this was said about the BB/Laitman/Bleep connection:
"Special Effects Bleep Zohar Lesson (Clip)
[u:b872fccb33][b:b872fccb33]The release of the movie What The Bleep was a pretty major turning point - finally we found a connection between standard media channels and authentic kabbalah from Israel. [/b:b872fccb33][/u:b872fccb33]
Kabbalist Rav Laitman was all over it in this Special Effects Bleep Zohar Lesson (video clip) where he is talking about walking through walls and how one thing can be in two places at the same time - truly one of the most entertaining lessons ever! Then the video team went all out making this really cool clip featuring Fred Alan Wolf and Jeffrey Satinover who have since become closely acquainted with Rav Laitman and the concepts of Kabbalah." [/color:b872fccb33]
Sadly, the link in that article to the “entertaining” video is now 404. Maybe it was a little too entertaining for general public viewing? One wonders, though, if Michael Laitman can walk through walls yet. I suppose walking on water is next.
Bnei Baruch anyone?
Posted by:
outtathere
()
Date: January 11, 2007 11:45PM
As a small aside to Skippy, who said, "No religion or ideology should be attacked... the actual beliefs should be off limits in a respectful society. You believe what you believe, I'll believe what I believe, and we don't need to attack the other viewpoint." Perhaps he may want to argue his point with Richard Dawkins, writer and (ahem) [i:c67aa8b48e][b:c67aa8b48e]scientist[/b:c67aa8b48e][/i:c67aa8b48e], whose latest book is [i:c67aa8b48e]The God Delusion[/i:c67aa8b48e]. "He eviscerates the major arguments for religion and demonstrates the supreme improbability of a supreme being."
He takes no prisoners.
[richarddawkins.net]
He takes no prisoners.
[richarddawkins.net]
Bnei Baruch anyone?
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: January 12, 2007 12:05AM
outtathere:
The primary point and focus of this board is actually not belief, but rather behavior.
People have the right to believe whatever they want, but this does not give them the right to do whatever they wish in the name of those beliefs.
Leaders and believers of any group should be held accountable for their actions, just like everyone else.
And we can and should question the behavior of leaders.
Morevoer, if people speak out in the free marketplace of ideas, others may respond to their remarks and/or pronouncements.
This is all part of the US First Amendment and freedom of speech.
The primary point and focus of this board is actually not belief, but rather behavior.
People have the right to believe whatever they want, but this does not give them the right to do whatever they wish in the name of those beliefs.
Leaders and believers of any group should be held accountable for their actions, just like everyone else.
And we can and should question the behavior of leaders.
Morevoer, if people speak out in the free marketplace of ideas, others may respond to their remarks and/or pronouncements.
This is all part of the US First Amendment and freedom of speech.
Bnei Baruch anyone?
Posted by:
outtathere
()
Date: January 12, 2007 12:25AM
Yes, but behavior inevitably follows from belief, does it not? Is it profitable, overall, to focus on the behavior alone, and not ask what fostered that behavior? But I will desist, seeing I have gone out of the boundaries of this particular forum.
Bnei Baruch anyone?
Posted by:
FormerBB
()
Date: February 09, 2007 10:07AM
Hello all.
I used to be a student of Laitman's Kabbalah. I have left it because there were too many suspicious things. Some quotes.
Micheal Laitman about himself
[i:6c48969cb1]"My specialization is biological cybernetics. I wanted to uncover the
system of the regulation of organisms."[/i:6c48969cb1]
[www.kabbalah.info]
[i:6c48969cb1]"I might take myself and put myself in the right environment and then through brainwashing myself, as they say, I will convince myself of that and it is not just persuasion, it is an intellect. " [/i:6c48969cb1]
[www.kabbalah.info]
(texts)/baal_hasulam_articles/freedom_of_will/08182005_freedom_of_will.htm
[i:6c48969cb1]"This is because together with them I am a part of the common Kli. Their opinions, desires, and thoughts influence me whether I want it or not. We all belong to the same system. I will feel what they want me to
feel. [u:6c48969cb1]This "brainwashing" constantly happens in our group.[/u:6c48969cb1] "[/i:6c48969cb1]http://www.kabbalah.info/engkab/translated_lessons_(texts)/kabbalah_as_a_science_series/07192004_freedom_of_will.htm
"That is why in practice with us and in our groups where we teach, it is customary that a person who comes to the group and wishes to advance correctly follows our advice: read only whatever we allow about spiritual methodologies. In other words, we completely forbid any other spiritual methodologies, philosophies, psychologies, even a person's studies of
various medical fields that use, supposedly, various internal forces in a person; meaning everything that can be interpreted as something
spiritual in a person, we categorically forbid those things. And out of all the books that talk about the spiritual world we allow only those that describe the spiritual world in a Kabbalistic language. And these are only books by Ari and Baal HaSulam. Beginners are not allowed to use any other books."
[www.kabbalah.info]
About Desire and Morals.[/size:6c48969cb1]
"Embracing Kabbalah does not work by merely avoiding nice things so that one’s desire will nt be kindled. Correction does not come from self-punishment, "
[www.kabbalah.info]
"He must expand his will to absorb all worlds (including klipot), including this one. This is the purpose for which he was created. It is not necessary
to become a monk or ascetic, or steer away from life. On the contrary, Kabbalah obliges man to marry, bear children and work and live a full life. Nothing has to be given up; everything was created for a reason, and man need not withdraw from life."
[www.kabbalah.info]
[b:6c48969cb1]"I want to steal, I lie, I am treacherous, I am a murderer and rapist, you name it. These are my natural properties, and I must not regard them as bad. " [/b:6c48969cb1]
[www.kabbalah.info]
[i:6c48969cb1]Giving charity, lighting candles, or performing some allegedly altruistic act does not affect the spiritual. Even our most exalted thoughts and noble deeds have no influence on the spiritual. "[/i:6c48969cb1]
[www.kabbalah.info]
--------------
I could go on and on. Freedom of will is only found in the group, HIS group, paying 10% (in one lecture Michael laitman mentioned as much as 90%), etc etc.
The teacher is ONLY Michael Laitman, the group is ONLY under leadership of Laitman, the books are by MICHAEL LAITMAN (or atleast they are commented, sometimes drastically by him).
I hope for the best, I hope that people will make right choices.
I used to be a student of Laitman's Kabbalah. I have left it because there were too many suspicious things. Some quotes.
Micheal Laitman about himself
[i:6c48969cb1]"My specialization is biological cybernetics. I wanted to uncover the
system of the regulation of organisms."[/i:6c48969cb1]
[www.kabbalah.info]
[i:6c48969cb1]"I might take myself and put myself in the right environment and then through brainwashing myself, as they say, I will convince myself of that and it is not just persuasion, it is an intellect. " [/i:6c48969cb1]
[www.kabbalah.info]
(texts)/baal_hasulam_articles/freedom_of_will/08182005_freedom_of_will.htm
[i:6c48969cb1]"This is because together with them I am a part of the common Kli. Their opinions, desires, and thoughts influence me whether I want it or not. We all belong to the same system. I will feel what they want me to
feel. [u:6c48969cb1]This "brainwashing" constantly happens in our group.[/u:6c48969cb1] "[/i:6c48969cb1]http://www.kabbalah.info/engkab/translated_lessons_(texts)/kabbalah_as_a_science_series/07192004_freedom_of_will.htm
"That is why in practice with us and in our groups where we teach, it is customary that a person who comes to the group and wishes to advance correctly follows our advice: read only whatever we allow about spiritual methodologies. In other words, we completely forbid any other spiritual methodologies, philosophies, psychologies, even a person's studies of
various medical fields that use, supposedly, various internal forces in a person; meaning everything that can be interpreted as something
spiritual in a person, we categorically forbid those things. And out of all the books that talk about the spiritual world we allow only those that describe the spiritual world in a Kabbalistic language. And these are only books by Ari and Baal HaSulam. Beginners are not allowed to use any other books."
[www.kabbalah.info]
About Desire and Morals.[/size:6c48969cb1]
"Embracing Kabbalah does not work by merely avoiding nice things so that one’s desire will nt be kindled. Correction does not come from self-punishment, "
[www.kabbalah.info]
"He must expand his will to absorb all worlds (including klipot), including this one. This is the purpose for which he was created. It is not necessary
to become a monk or ascetic, or steer away from life. On the contrary, Kabbalah obliges man to marry, bear children and work and live a full life. Nothing has to be given up; everything was created for a reason, and man need not withdraw from life."
[www.kabbalah.info]
[b:6c48969cb1]"I want to steal, I lie, I am treacherous, I am a murderer and rapist, you name it. These are my natural properties, and I must not regard them as bad. " [/b:6c48969cb1]
[www.kabbalah.info]
[i:6c48969cb1]Giving charity, lighting candles, or performing some allegedly altruistic act does not affect the spiritual. Even our most exalted thoughts and noble deeds have no influence on the spiritual. "[/i:6c48969cb1]
[www.kabbalah.info]
--------------
I could go on and on. Freedom of will is only found in the group, HIS group, paying 10% (in one lecture Michael laitman mentioned as much as 90%), etc etc.
The teacher is ONLY Michael Laitman, the group is ONLY under leadership of Laitman, the books are by MICHAEL LAITMAN (or atleast they are commented, sometimes drastically by him).
I hope for the best, I hope that people will make right choices.
Bnei Baruch anyone?
Posted by:
skippypb
()
Date: February 11, 2007 08:35AM
There is certainly a mountain of evidence piling up against Bnei Baruch, but some evidence is certainly taken out of context. I thank you for including links to the quotes because it shows how at least one is taken out of context. You had one in bold print that was too crazy to pass up reading the article. The line is:
[b:b60cbf0dca]"I want to steal, I lie, I am treacherous, I am a murderer and rapist, you name it. These are my natural properties, and I must not regard them as bad. "[/b:b60cbf0dca]
If you read the small chunk of the article with this quote, you will find it means you need to look at the intention behind the act... and that the intention is not an altruistic intention. The quote is merely trying to redirect from focusing on the action to focusing on the intention. It was in no way advocating murder or rape as being acceptable. In fact, the next question asks about altruistically stealing, and it is said the only altruistic stealing is stealing from yourself.
I didn't check any of your other quotes, but there are probably some others taken out of context. There is enough evidence of shady activity at Bnei Baruch without you putting in false claims.
[b:b60cbf0dca]"I want to steal, I lie, I am treacherous, I am a murderer and rapist, you name it. These are my natural properties, and I must not regard them as bad. "[/b:b60cbf0dca]
If you read the small chunk of the article with this quote, you will find it means you need to look at the intention behind the act... and that the intention is not an altruistic intention. The quote is merely trying to redirect from focusing on the action to focusing on the intention. It was in no way advocating murder or rape as being acceptable. In fact, the next question asks about altruistically stealing, and it is said the only altruistic stealing is stealing from yourself.
I didn't check any of your other quotes, but there are probably some others taken out of context. There is enough evidence of shady activity at Bnei Baruch without you putting in false claims.
Bnei Baruch anyone?
Posted by:
FormerBB
()
Date: February 12, 2007 12:18AM
Quote
skippypb
You had one in bold print that was too crazy to pass up reading the article. The line is:
[b:d9e61ef865]"I want to steal, I lie, I am treacherous, I am a murderer and rapist, you name it. These are my natural properties, and I must not regard them as bad. "[/b:d9e61ef865]
If you read the small chunk of the article with this quote, you will find it means you need to look at the intention behind the act... and that the intention is not an altruistic intention. The quote is merely trying to redirect from focusing on the action to focusing on the intention. It was in no way advocating murder or rape as being acceptable. In fact, the next question asks about altruistically stealing, and it is said the only altruistic stealing is stealing from yourself.
The problem is: Doing bad materialistic things regardless of intention is bad. Stealing from the Ego and from the bank are different things. Michael Laitman has no problem with the concept that we can do anything on animals, and people who do not study Kabbalah are like animals. I guess you know where it is going...
Alot of information easily and publicly available is definately "light". I've heard one of the members of BB talking about that whenever Rav Laitman publicly talks about that "we need to be good and not to kill" it is just not to scare off people. What gets put on the website and into media archive is not always exactly what happens, some things may be cut out.
After all the law of Torah states that you need to KILL your enemy before he (she) kills you. You have Michael Laitman talking about being a rebellious atheist (when he is speaking to Scientists) and when he returns to Israel he talks about the Love of God, Giving of Torah and so on.
I don't know how many of these made it into English Bnei Baruch site, but it is present in Russian version of BB website.
I wish the best to all!
Bnei Baruch anyone?
Posted by:
The Serpent Bearer
()
Date: March 05, 2007 02:05PM
Hey Renee I remember you from the English BB forum I used to post there occasionally as Mordechai/The Epyon and am a former member myself. My name is Edward and I dont know if you ever attended the New York congress back in 05 but that is the only one I have ever been to.
That link you posted a written by that man and his wife about BB ISrael I remember reading a long time ago. There was also another guy who posted some interesting things about the nature of cults and how it relates to BB, which they labeled as "poison" naturally...Ever since reading those two documents and going on a search for other ways of thinking/feeling/believing, I have seen the kind of mechanism that these organizations operate with. It is funny to me, because once I mentioned to my mother that I was no longer affiliated with BB and Kabbalah in general, she sighed in relief and told me she thanked god that I was done with them because she saw how it was affecting my behavior (in hindsight I see how it did as well)
But yes, I did stumble upon texts about Zionists and how they are lobbying for global domination, and I had wondered to myself if BB fit anywhere within that sphere of influence.
Anyway I am glad to see I am not the only one who felt this way about BB
That link you posted a written by that man and his wife about BB ISrael I remember reading a long time ago. There was also another guy who posted some interesting things about the nature of cults and how it relates to BB, which they labeled as "poison" naturally...Ever since reading those two documents and going on a search for other ways of thinking/feeling/believing, I have seen the kind of mechanism that these organizations operate with. It is funny to me, because once I mentioned to my mother that I was no longer affiliated with BB and Kabbalah in general, she sighed in relief and told me she thanked god that I was done with them because she saw how it was affecting my behavior (in hindsight I see how it did as well)
But yes, I did stumble upon texts about Zionists and how they are lobbying for global domination, and I had wondered to myself if BB fit anywhere within that sphere of influence.
Anyway I am glad to see I am not the only one who felt this way about BB
Bnei Baruch anyone?
Posted by:
pnina
()
Date: March 29, 2007 11:54PM
As a BB student and someone who works in the transcription of lessons, proofreading for books etc. I feel I can respond, Renee, to your query about the Ramtha involvement with BB.
There simply is no involvement. She did not appear in the collection of scientists who had a workshop with Rav Michael Laitman investigating how their views of where science meets spirituality are very much answered by Kabbalah. (She was not included because she is NOT a scientist...she is a soccer mom who says she is channeling some dude). It should be noted that the movie 'What the Bleep' had nothing to do with BB. It was an independent film, really, if you read from their website, an investigation on the part of it's three film makers of where science and spirituality meet. I don't know why they decided to include JZ Knight (aka Ramtha)...if you think she's whacked you should take it up with them, not BB.
I read from the Katot website you posted (I can read Hebrew and English) and I didn't see anything that truly alarmed me, maybe a couple of small things I might ask others in BB about. You will know from experience, Renee that the women's groups are full of EGOs bumping up against each other constantly. Sounds like that member's wife was in the middle of some serious ego bumping and decided to hightale it.
From my own life experience I know that every person has a completely different picture of what happened. Haven't you noticed in your own life that you listen to one friend rant about the evil motives of another friend and in your mind you know that it is not 'truth' but rather that person's emotionally convulted perspective.
Maybe I am your 1%.
love Pnina
There simply is no involvement. She did not appear in the collection of scientists who had a workshop with Rav Michael Laitman investigating how their views of where science meets spirituality are very much answered by Kabbalah. (She was not included because she is NOT a scientist...she is a soccer mom who says she is channeling some dude). It should be noted that the movie 'What the Bleep' had nothing to do with BB. It was an independent film, really, if you read from their website, an investigation on the part of it's three film makers of where science and spirituality meet. I don't know why they decided to include JZ Knight (aka Ramtha)...if you think she's whacked you should take it up with them, not BB.
I read from the Katot website you posted (I can read Hebrew and English) and I didn't see anything that truly alarmed me, maybe a couple of small things I might ask others in BB about. You will know from experience, Renee that the women's groups are full of EGOs bumping up against each other constantly. Sounds like that member's wife was in the middle of some serious ego bumping and decided to hightale it.
From my own life experience I know that every person has a completely different picture of what happened. Haven't you noticed in your own life that you listen to one friend rant about the evil motives of another friend and in your mind you know that it is not 'truth' but rather that person's emotionally convulted perspective.
Maybe I am your 1%.
love Pnina
Bnei Baruch anyone?
Posted by:
pnina
()
Date: March 30, 2007 12:09AM
I would like to ask you three, Renee, Alex and Edward, why you feel so bitter about your experience with BB?
Alex I do recall your really quite shocking behaviour in our BB group upon your departure from BB and you hardly qualify to judge anyone else's behaviour having fully displayed your own weaknesses in that area.
However, Renee and Edward...I recall you both as lovely additions to the group. I don't recall either of you raising your questions and concerns within the group. I wonder why you didn't ask the questions of your heart directly? For example, Renee, you are asking us to write to MikeBB and inquire as to the Ramtha connection (which by now you know there really is no connection). Why wouldn't YOU do this...since it is YOUR question?
And Edward, I would ask what it was about your behaviour while you were involved in BB that your mother did not like?
Renee you seem to have a lot of steam for discrediting BB and I don't see that you are doing an effective job at it. The moderator here has refocused you in this string to stick to actual behaviour of groups and not their beliefs. Can you respond to this question: How did BB affect your behaviour?
with best regards,
Pnina
Alex I do recall your really quite shocking behaviour in our BB group upon your departure from BB and you hardly qualify to judge anyone else's behaviour having fully displayed your own weaknesses in that area.
However, Renee and Edward...I recall you both as lovely additions to the group. I don't recall either of you raising your questions and concerns within the group. I wonder why you didn't ask the questions of your heart directly? For example, Renee, you are asking us to write to MikeBB and inquire as to the Ramtha connection (which by now you know there really is no connection). Why wouldn't YOU do this...since it is YOUR question?
And Edward, I would ask what it was about your behaviour while you were involved in BB that your mother did not like?
Renee you seem to have a lot of steam for discrediting BB and I don't see that you are doing an effective job at it. The moderator here has refocused you in this string to stick to actual behaviour of groups and not their beliefs. Can you respond to this question: How did BB affect your behaviour?
with best regards,
Pnina
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