Bnei Baruch anyone?
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: January 09, 2007 03:36AM
To whom it may concern:
The user "MikeBB" has been banned from this Message Board.
He was not here for any meaningful discussion, but rather participated in an apparent attempt to subvert criticism of his group here.
MikeBB's admissions and pattern of avoiding answering questions about BB in any meaningful way was interesting though.
The user "MikeBB" has been banned from this Message Board.
He was not here for any meaningful discussion, but rather participated in an apparent attempt to subvert criticism of his group here.
MikeBB's admissions and pattern of avoiding answering questions about BB in any meaningful way was interesting though.
Bnei Baruch anyone?
Posted by:
outtathere
()
Date: January 09, 2007 06:19AM
Aw Rick, you didn't give me a chance to ask him about those "serious misconceptions" he mentioned in his first post. I especially wanted to question his view of the Bleep movie and the Ramtha connection. I know those questions won't get answered over on [i:be09c91169]their[/i:be09c91169] board, and besides, they probably won't let [i:be09c91169]me[/i:be09c91169] on [i:be09c91169]that[/i:be09c91169] one anymore.
Gian Maria's indeed brutal assertion that for Laitman and his "chosen" Jewish men, the rest are just the means to the end, must have brought about some serious cognitive dissonance for Mike, if we assume he is under a different impression. And the fact that SkippyPB has let this damning information go by without a word like it was never even posted is quite peculiar, in my view. Of course, it is true that one can study Ashlagian kabbalah superficially at kabbalah.info without any reference whatsoever to the doings and opinions and plans of the core group of Bnei Baruch in Israel.
From what is admitedly just my personal perspective given my residence inside another cult 12 years ago, and the present situation, and reading about many others, I want to make two points.
The first is that it always seems to be true that the public face of an organization like this is just ever so inviting, so innocent, showing nothing that anyone might question or quibble with. All the people you meet or might deal with are helpful and smiling and enthusiastic, and you [i:be09c91169]assume[/i:be09c91169] that they're well on their way to attaining the "goal" or that they have attained it, but they won't tell you a thing about their own personal level of attainment--it's a secret. But then, if you [i:be09c91169]live with[/i:be09c91169] the inner core of people, thinking that will be better, more, shockingly you find (if that is, if you don't become one of those willing to carry on the illusion/delusion) that things are so very very very different, so very negative, and that the worst of human traits are in front of you on a daily basis, and not that lovingkindness you expected. And the leader!? Has his/her supposed closeness to Source/God/Christ/Light/Creator made of him a kind and wise human being? It always seems to not be the case, sadly. I highly recommend an online free book that I didn't see listed on this site, Stripping the Gurus. The chapters that speak about the psychology of cult involvement across the board are:
[www.strippingthegurus.com]
[www.strippingthegurus.com]
and
[www.strippingthegurus.com]
And they are always offering you something, something you want, something you need. In the present case, what you get (eventually, somehow, with the "scientfic" kabbalistic method) are answers to life's deepest questions and yearnings and admission into the presence of the Creator Itself (eventually... as I said before). And the intoxicating rush may be there--you've found IT, what you've been looking for, all your life maybe. But soon, too soon, you see that you absolutely, positively can't get there overnight, and you're going to have work at it very very hard for a long, long, long time. And not only that, but your ugly EGO will be rubbing elbows with every body else's ugly EGO. And it gets ugly.
The second point, which Gian Maria made so well in his letter to katot.org, is what may happen to you when you finally have the courage to leave: they will hate you, revile you, act like you are nothing if they might meet you on the street. I KNOW this is true, because I experienced this exact treatment upon leaving the cult I was in. In fact, where I was so long ago, we were taught to do this, expected to do it--reject utterly the person who dares leave, no matter if it was your wife, father, child, sister, didn't matter. And my husband rejected me when I left. We had occasion to meet about 6 months after, and he wouldn't even touch me, because I was now "unclean" and he didn't want to become "defiled." The above chapters also give many examples, and explains the psychology of it much better than I am able to do.
I want to quote from the letter, and note that it bolsters Rick's comments about issues of spiritual elitism:
"This general attitude is combined together with the inducted feeling that whatever is outside the group, being part of the big swindle (or physical appearance of creation), is fake, low, pathetic and unbearable. As a result Bnei Baruch members measure people who belong to the group and those who don’t in a completely different way from the norm. The group is your life, the air you breathe, your refuge, your family, the gathering of your only friends, your only and exclusive spiritual hope. Outside the group there is no life, people are like beasts (meaning their behaviors and desires are no different from those of animals) and there is nowhere to go. The group owns the Way, the group owns the only tools to possibly reach the target, the group owns the truth. Everyone, once they have been accepted to become one of the group, is indoctrinated to fear finding himself outside!
The group’s behaviour towards its members can be summarized by the motto “either with me or against me”. The comparing of opinions is allowed and promoted inside Bnei Baruch, as long as it doesn’t exceed the theoretical limits outlined by Laitman’s teachings. Could it be any different? Should it be?
Unfortunately things become problematic when it concerns the view and treatment of people who have, for one reason or another, left the group. The one who is sent away, or leaves the group for ideological reasons, becomes infected, ceases to exist and ‘dies’. As a rule, people within the group are not allowed to talk with them anymore, nor even look at them and say “hello”. I will try to be more precise with a personal example, and it merely illustrates many other similar cases.
Approximately one year ago, for reasons connected to bad feelings she had collected in the space of two years and partly related to what I’m writing here, my wife decided to leave the group. The women of Bnei Baruch rapidly rejected her, to the point of ignoring her existence. The men simply supported, or even pushed, their wife’s position, or encouraged me that ‘after all she was a bit crazy’. They suggested that this was only a disturbance that, as always, would lead me closer to the target because, for His mysterious reasons, the Creator likes torturing those He loves… Someone said “her eyes are dead”, another tried to convince me to behave like the horse in George Orwell’s “Animal Farm” and told me “work harder!”, others suggested that I should consider getting married again and that a woman after all is nothing but a cow that brings cattle into the world. Most of the so-called friends were apathetic.
Now, the terrible thing is that in other places or ages, behaviors of this kind would surely have resulted in a harsher dismissal, such as lapidation (stoning), mutilation, or other violent abuses of human rights. Only the fact that we are living in more enlightened times spared everyone from falling into such an abyss. Nevertheless, the quality of the facts remains unchanged. To make it clearer, we could call it social lynching. This behaviour might be considered normal for a pack of hyenas that fights over a chunk of meat, but it is unacceptable when originating from the “most developed souls” of the world. It is much closer to a sectarian or tribal behaviour than to the attitude I expected from those who want to spread the universal religion of “love thy neighbor as thyself” all over the globe." [/color:be09c91169]
[I want to thank Gian Maria for being willing to write more on this message board, seeing as how it could be construed that I somewhat forced his hand, so to speak.]
I think Orwell's [i:be09c91169]Animal Farm[/i:be09c91169], btw, is a good one to read, or reread in this context.
Well, whether anyone else is or not, I am satisfied that what I had done a year ago with kabbalah was become interested and involved in just one more of the world's many metaphysical cons. I hope I am going to finally wise up, and not feel the need to go wandering "off to see the wizard" anymore.
Gian Maria's indeed brutal assertion that for Laitman and his "chosen" Jewish men, the rest are just the means to the end, must have brought about some serious cognitive dissonance for Mike, if we assume he is under a different impression. And the fact that SkippyPB has let this damning information go by without a word like it was never even posted is quite peculiar, in my view. Of course, it is true that one can study Ashlagian kabbalah superficially at kabbalah.info without any reference whatsoever to the doings and opinions and plans of the core group of Bnei Baruch in Israel.
From what is admitedly just my personal perspective given my residence inside another cult 12 years ago, and the present situation, and reading about many others, I want to make two points.
The first is that it always seems to be true that the public face of an organization like this is just ever so inviting, so innocent, showing nothing that anyone might question or quibble with. All the people you meet or might deal with are helpful and smiling and enthusiastic, and you [i:be09c91169]assume[/i:be09c91169] that they're well on their way to attaining the "goal" or that they have attained it, but they won't tell you a thing about their own personal level of attainment--it's a secret. But then, if you [i:be09c91169]live with[/i:be09c91169] the inner core of people, thinking that will be better, more, shockingly you find (if that is, if you don't become one of those willing to carry on the illusion/delusion) that things are so very very very different, so very negative, and that the worst of human traits are in front of you on a daily basis, and not that lovingkindness you expected. And the leader!? Has his/her supposed closeness to Source/God/Christ/Light/Creator made of him a kind and wise human being? It always seems to not be the case, sadly. I highly recommend an online free book that I didn't see listed on this site, Stripping the Gurus. The chapters that speak about the psychology of cult involvement across the board are:
[www.strippingthegurus.com]
[www.strippingthegurus.com]
and
[www.strippingthegurus.com]
And they are always offering you something, something you want, something you need. In the present case, what you get (eventually, somehow, with the "scientfic" kabbalistic method) are answers to life's deepest questions and yearnings and admission into the presence of the Creator Itself (eventually... as I said before). And the intoxicating rush may be there--you've found IT, what you've been looking for, all your life maybe. But soon, too soon, you see that you absolutely, positively can't get there overnight, and you're going to have work at it very very hard for a long, long, long time. And not only that, but your ugly EGO will be rubbing elbows with every body else's ugly EGO. And it gets ugly.
The second point, which Gian Maria made so well in his letter to katot.org, is what may happen to you when you finally have the courage to leave: they will hate you, revile you, act like you are nothing if they might meet you on the street. I KNOW this is true, because I experienced this exact treatment upon leaving the cult I was in. In fact, where I was so long ago, we were taught to do this, expected to do it--reject utterly the person who dares leave, no matter if it was your wife, father, child, sister, didn't matter. And my husband rejected me when I left. We had occasion to meet about 6 months after, and he wouldn't even touch me, because I was now "unclean" and he didn't want to become "defiled." The above chapters also give many examples, and explains the psychology of it much better than I am able to do.
I want to quote from the letter, and note that it bolsters Rick's comments about issues of spiritual elitism:
"This general attitude is combined together with the inducted feeling that whatever is outside the group, being part of the big swindle (or physical appearance of creation), is fake, low, pathetic and unbearable. As a result Bnei Baruch members measure people who belong to the group and those who don’t in a completely different way from the norm. The group is your life, the air you breathe, your refuge, your family, the gathering of your only friends, your only and exclusive spiritual hope. Outside the group there is no life, people are like beasts (meaning their behaviors and desires are no different from those of animals) and there is nowhere to go. The group owns the Way, the group owns the only tools to possibly reach the target, the group owns the truth. Everyone, once they have been accepted to become one of the group, is indoctrinated to fear finding himself outside!
The group’s behaviour towards its members can be summarized by the motto “either with me or against me”. The comparing of opinions is allowed and promoted inside Bnei Baruch, as long as it doesn’t exceed the theoretical limits outlined by Laitman’s teachings. Could it be any different? Should it be?
Unfortunately things become problematic when it concerns the view and treatment of people who have, for one reason or another, left the group. The one who is sent away, or leaves the group for ideological reasons, becomes infected, ceases to exist and ‘dies’. As a rule, people within the group are not allowed to talk with them anymore, nor even look at them and say “hello”. I will try to be more precise with a personal example, and it merely illustrates many other similar cases.
Approximately one year ago, for reasons connected to bad feelings she had collected in the space of two years and partly related to what I’m writing here, my wife decided to leave the group. The women of Bnei Baruch rapidly rejected her, to the point of ignoring her existence. The men simply supported, or even pushed, their wife’s position, or encouraged me that ‘after all she was a bit crazy’. They suggested that this was only a disturbance that, as always, would lead me closer to the target because, for His mysterious reasons, the Creator likes torturing those He loves… Someone said “her eyes are dead”, another tried to convince me to behave like the horse in George Orwell’s “Animal Farm” and told me “work harder!”, others suggested that I should consider getting married again and that a woman after all is nothing but a cow that brings cattle into the world. Most of the so-called friends were apathetic.
Now, the terrible thing is that in other places or ages, behaviors of this kind would surely have resulted in a harsher dismissal, such as lapidation (stoning), mutilation, or other violent abuses of human rights. Only the fact that we are living in more enlightened times spared everyone from falling into such an abyss. Nevertheless, the quality of the facts remains unchanged. To make it clearer, we could call it social lynching. This behaviour might be considered normal for a pack of hyenas that fights over a chunk of meat, but it is unacceptable when originating from the “most developed souls” of the world. It is much closer to a sectarian or tribal behaviour than to the attitude I expected from those who want to spread the universal religion of “love thy neighbor as thyself” all over the globe." [/color:be09c91169]
[I want to thank Gian Maria for being willing to write more on this message board, seeing as how it could be construed that I somewhat forced his hand, so to speak.]
I think Orwell's [i:be09c91169]Animal Farm[/i:be09c91169], btw, is a good one to read, or reread in this context.
Well, whether anyone else is or not, I am satisfied that what I had done a year ago with kabbalah was become interested and involved in just one more of the world's many metaphysical cons. I hope I am going to finally wise up, and not feel the need to go wandering "off to see the wizard" anymore.
Bnei Baruch anyone?
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: January 09, 2007 06:40AM
This board is often frequented by Inernet trolls.
MikeBB seems to have been another one.
MikeBB seems to have been another one.
Bnei Baruch anyone?
Posted by:
skippypb
()
Date: January 09, 2007 10:08AM
As I said before, but some people like a little more drama with their coffee than others, I can accept the katot story. I can accept that Bnei Baruch may have unannounced political aspirations. I can also accept that I do not have to agree with every single teaching, such as the notion that anyone not in Bnei Baruch or not in Israel is just a stepping stone. I can also accept that I can gain free knowledge of Kabbalah without setting foot in Israel or attending a congress or any live study groups. I am completely safe, completely unattached to the political group, and my finances are mine and mine alone. I find it offensive that some people feel free to attack someone else's personal convictions on this board (especially when they are clearly mixing old events and old anger with a new experience). No religion or ideology should be attacked. Dangerous methods of teaching or dangerous situations, attack all you want. But the actual beliefs should be off limits in a respectful society. You believe what you believe, I'll believe what I believe, and we don't need to attack the other viewpoint. As I have stated before, if someone is an atheist, I really don't care. Whatever works for you. I just want the same respect back.
I do wish that MikeBB were allowed to answer the Ramtha/What the Bleep questions. It would certainly be interesting. From what I gathered in his posts, he isn't a "higher up" in Bnei Baruch even though he is a teacher. Therefor he didn't have the answers to give to certain questions. I still stand by the idea that not naming a specific alternative Kabbalah organization isn't being evasive. When it comes to Ashlag's teachings in English, Bnei Baruch is the best resource I've found. I have found other schools that teach the same things, but they just don't have the articles translated. But either way, that's not a big deal to me. The financial part is a curiousity, but it's really the political elements that I'm uncomfortable with. Especially because so much of the teachings are based on not interpreting anything to mean something about actions in this world.
Anyway, I still see no problem in studying Kabbalah with Bnei Baruch, as long as I avoid direct interaction with them. I don't have to believe in their political agenda and I don't need to support them financially. So long as everything remains free, I feel like I'm getting quite the good deal. Rick, since you've opened up a lot more now, do you see anything wrong with what I'm doing? Am I placing myself in danger, or am I staying safely outside the harmful parts? I'm asking you because you clearly know more about this than anyone. You've made a career out of studying these groups. What's your opinion on just the free materials and free online study?
I do wish that MikeBB were allowed to answer the Ramtha/What the Bleep questions. It would certainly be interesting. From what I gathered in his posts, he isn't a "higher up" in Bnei Baruch even though he is a teacher. Therefor he didn't have the answers to give to certain questions. I still stand by the idea that not naming a specific alternative Kabbalah organization isn't being evasive. When it comes to Ashlag's teachings in English, Bnei Baruch is the best resource I've found. I have found other schools that teach the same things, but they just don't have the articles translated. But either way, that's not a big deal to me. The financial part is a curiousity, but it's really the political elements that I'm uncomfortable with. Especially because so much of the teachings are based on not interpreting anything to mean something about actions in this world.
Anyway, I still see no problem in studying Kabbalah with Bnei Baruch, as long as I avoid direct interaction with them. I don't have to believe in their political agenda and I don't need to support them financially. So long as everything remains free, I feel like I'm getting quite the good deal. Rick, since you've opened up a lot more now, do you see anything wrong with what I'm doing? Am I placing myself in danger, or am I staying safely outside the harmful parts? I'm asking you because you clearly know more about this than anyone. You've made a career out of studying these groups. What's your opinion on just the free materials and free online study?
Bnei Baruch anyone?
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: January 09, 2007 10:18AM
skippypb:
I wouldn't recommend BB given the responses here.
There are many alternatives that are more credible, such as those previously cited.
I wouldn't recommend BB given the responses here.
There are many alternatives that are more credible, such as those previously cited.
Bnei Baruch anyone?
Posted by:
outtathere
()
Date: January 10, 2007 01:58AM
You find lots of things offensive, I'm sure. Life is messy, though. Some people might call what I have done, or am trying to do, "learning from experience." It's sort of a fairly common component of intelligent human life, not to put [i:00eed86034]too[/i:00eed86034] much drama into it.Quote
skippypb
I find it offensive that some people feel free to attack someone else's personal convictions on this board (especially when they are clearly mixing old events and old anger with a new experience).
[i:00eed86034]Warning, drama following:[/i:00eed86034]
Old event: attacked by large rabid dog. Old anger: had to go through rabies shot series, and now missing left hand. New experience: walking down the street and being approached by yet another large rabid dog ... and I run away as fast as I can, screaming at the top my lungs, "Rabid dog! Everybody run for your life!" But wait, no, maybe I'll just pet the nice doggie. And maybe I'll take him home for my very own, since I don't have a god, opps, I mean dog, presently... not only that, I think I'll tell anyone who asks that I lost my hand in a silly little meat grinder accident, especially since so many people don't believe in rabies, and I don't want to upset anybody.[/color:00eed86034]
(I take half-and-half in my coffee, thank you. When I want drama, I use Bailey's Irish Cream.)
Quote
skippypb
No religion or ideology should be attacked. Dangerous methods of teaching or dangerous situations, attack all you want. But the actual beliefs should be off limits in a respectful society. You believe what you believe, I'll believe what I believe, and we don't need to attack the other viewpoint.
Why do you keep talking about "attack"? "Actual beliefs should be off limits in a respectful society"? You've got to be kidding! You've got to be kidding. You know, I believe you ought to be attacked for believing that. And I'm gonna get everybody I can to believe the same, and maybe after a while, if we all believe it strongly enough, we'll all come to your place and act on that belief, and [i:00eed86034]attack [/i:00eed86034]you. Cultreporter just didn't get the point across to you I see.
Quote
skippypb
I do wish that MikeBB were allowed to answer the Ramtha/What the Bleep questions. It would certainly be interesting.
Yes, it would, even though it would probably be more non-answers. So why don't you get back on their board and ask them? BTW, I think you underestimate Mike's relative importance to BB in the US. I could be wrong, but Tony and Mike seem to be the #1 and #2 guys respectively.
Bnei Baruch anyone?
Posted by:
skippypb
()
Date: January 10, 2007 08:24AM
*Yawn* Anyone can join the kabbalahlearningcenter.info message board without an approval process. Why don't you go ask the question yourself. I'm sure you'll get a lot more fun out of it. I'm taking Rick's advice and cutting my very limited ties. I'm not interested in playing games with them or acting a fool, I'll just walk away.
Being #1 and #2 in the US and Canada (Tony is Canadian) doesn't mean they are entitled to much knowledge, especially if something in Israel is what's being kept secret. If Bnei Baruch doesn't value the international divisions, then why would they advertise that to the international teachers? Based entirely on my own semi-dislike of Tony's attitude, I would bet he would be a secret keeper, but Mike seems much more genuine and really didn't come across as evasive to me... just unknowledgeable.
I will also remind you that people have different opinions. It's why we have different political parties for example. Neither side is "right" or "wrong" -- they just differ in opinion. Continuously acting like your opinion is correct or acting like you've proven a point (with no evidence) is just not intellectual discussion.
Being #1 and #2 in the US and Canada (Tony is Canadian) doesn't mean they are entitled to much knowledge, especially if something in Israel is what's being kept secret. If Bnei Baruch doesn't value the international divisions, then why would they advertise that to the international teachers? Based entirely on my own semi-dislike of Tony's attitude, I would bet he would be a secret keeper, but Mike seems much more genuine and really didn't come across as evasive to me... just unknowledgeable.
I will also remind you that people have different opinions. It's why we have different political parties for example. Neither side is "right" or "wrong" -- they just differ in opinion. Continuously acting like your opinion is correct or acting like you've proven a point (with no evidence) is just not intellectual discussion.
Bnei Baruch anyone?
Posted by:
markos
()
Date: January 10, 2007 10:54PM
Hi, my name is Markos and I've been a student of Bnei Baruch in Israel for the past 14 months.
1. Financial documentation:
Bnei Baruch has been working the last month on providing a full financial budget nakedly available for public viewing on their website - similar to the way Wikipedia presents their financial budget.
The reason there was no naked financial budget on the website prior to this is simply because Bnei Baruch is very small-staffed, and the staff works only in creating study content. Only recently has the topic even arose, from one member looking at Wikipedia and seeing how "Hey, Bnei Baruch should do the same" and then everyone agreed, and it should be up in February.
2. No Ramtha connection.
There is no connection between Ramtha and Bnei Baruch. Michael Laitman's relationship to the movie "What the Bleep!?" was the following:
1. A meeting organized by sociologist Barry Gurdin in San Francisco between him and the scientists from the movie, Fred Alan Wolf, Jeffrey Satinover, and William Tiller.
Link: [www.kabbalah.info]
2. Laitman used two bits of content from the movie to illustrate topics dealing with perception of reality:
(i) the example of Columbus' ship approaching the shores of America.
(ii) the statistic that was stated in the movie that scientists have discovered that four billion bits of information enter us at every moment, and out of those, only two thousand are registered in the mind.
Here is the direct quote of its use, p. 47 of the book "Kabbalah, Science and the Meaning of Life":
Both these examples were not given by Ramtha, and their full documentation of their use is available at the following links (as well as the first link above):
-- Video: Kabbalah, Science and the Perception of Reality - [www.youtube.com]
(this is part of one of the daily lessons, edited into a movie-like format by ARI Films)
-- Book: Kabbalah, Science and the Meaning of Life -
[www.kabbalahmedia.info]
(most of this book is based on the San Francisco meeting)
Here is my response to the definition of "cult" in www.dictionary.com with regard to what I've experienced participating in Bnei Baruch:
It's definitely a system, but not religious. One who progresses in the study discovers how it is a scientific method, but from an external perspective, it looks like the group might hold some external objectives.
It holds no rites and ceremonies. It has daily studies, and these are available on the internet at www.kab.tv (schedule available there). The goal of the studies is inner, spiritual attainment, and all the work is focused internally.
"Great veneration" is toward "the Creator," which is explained as nature's operating force, an attribute of altruism, and not a person. All the teaching is aimed at attaining the clear perception and sensation of this force.
In this case, there is a great veneration of a "thing" - a force, being altruism.
Altruism as a quality is the object of devotion, and all the work in Bnei Baruch is aimed at attaining it.
as above.
It's not an ideology that bases the work; it's a hypothesis. That hypothesis is that there is a higher force, and that this higher force has been attained completely by people called "Kabbalists" (Heb. "receivers") in the past, and the perception and sensation of this force can be attained through the method that Kabbalists have developed and passed down.
There are daily studies centered around how to attain this goal.
Many consider it to be just another false path, many consider it to be the true path. To this, it is often referred from Kabbalistic texts that "one's soul shall teach one" meaning that one's own desire will lead one to where one will find one's place.
However, everyone studying is obligated to do all the things that this world requires: work, family, etc. and not to obstain oneself in any way from society. This is embedded into the method of inner attainment, that one cannot increase one's desire if one does not incorporate in the desires of others.
see 1 in definition
Bnei Baruch never refers to physical health or sickness in the method it studies.
1. Financial documentation:
Bnei Baruch has been working the last month on providing a full financial budget nakedly available for public viewing on their website - similar to the way Wikipedia presents their financial budget.
The reason there was no naked financial budget on the website prior to this is simply because Bnei Baruch is very small-staffed, and the staff works only in creating study content. Only recently has the topic even arose, from one member looking at Wikipedia and seeing how "Hey, Bnei Baruch should do the same" and then everyone agreed, and it should be up in February.
2. No Ramtha connection.
There is no connection between Ramtha and Bnei Baruch. Michael Laitman's relationship to the movie "What the Bleep!?" was the following:
1. A meeting organized by sociologist Barry Gurdin in San Francisco between him and the scientists from the movie, Fred Alan Wolf, Jeffrey Satinover, and William Tiller.
Link: [www.kabbalah.info]
2. Laitman used two bits of content from the movie to illustrate topics dealing with perception of reality:
(i) the example of Columbus' ship approaching the shores of America.
(ii) the statistic that was stated in the movie that scientists have discovered that four billion bits of information enter us at every moment, and out of those, only two thousand are registered in the mind.
Here is the direct quote of its use, p. 47 of the book "Kabbalah, Science and the Meaning of Life":
Quote
Prof. Tiller mentioned Tor Norretranders, the renowned
Danish researcher who published a book entitled The User Illusion.
Norretranders notes an intriguing point regarding the functionality
of the unconscious and what it contains. It appears that the
five senses perceive fifty million bits of information per second,
gathered as streams of information in the consciousness. The subconscious processes the information mathematically, but it only
processes a tiny fragment of the information—some fifty bits of
information per second.
Evidently, there is a huge gap between the received fifty million
bits of information and the processed fifty bits. The important
element to note is that the subconscious sends to the brain
only the information that the brain determined in advance would
be meaningful. The rest of the information is dismissed by the
subconscious. These findings appear to corroborate the Kabbalah
perspective with regard to the will to receive.
Both these examples were not given by Ramtha, and their full documentation of their use is available at the following links (as well as the first link above):
-- Video: Kabbalah, Science and the Perception of Reality - [www.youtube.com]
(this is part of one of the daily lessons, edited into a movie-like format by ARI Films)
-- Book: Kabbalah, Science and the Meaning of Life -
[www.kabbalahmedia.info]
(most of this book is based on the San Francisco meeting)
Here is my response to the definition of "cult" in www.dictionary.com with regard to what I've experienced participating in Bnei Baruch:
Quote
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
It's definitely a system, but not religious. One who progresses in the study discovers how it is a scientific method, but from an external perspective, it looks like the group might hold some external objectives.
It holds no rites and ceremonies. It has daily studies, and these are available on the internet at www.kab.tv (schedule available there). The goal of the studies is inner, spiritual attainment, and all the work is focused internally.
Quote
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
"Great veneration" is toward "the Creator," which is explained as nature's operating force, an attribute of altruism, and not a person. All the teaching is aimed at attaining the clear perception and sensation of this force.
In this case, there is a great veneration of a "thing" - a force, being altruism.
Quote
3. the object of such devotion.
Altruism as a quality is the object of devotion, and all the work in Bnei Baruch is aimed at attaining it.
Quote
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
as above.
Quote
5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
It's not an ideology that bases the work; it's a hypothesis. That hypothesis is that there is a higher force, and that this higher force has been attained completely by people called "Kabbalists" (Heb. "receivers") in the past, and the perception and sensation of this force can be attained through the method that Kabbalists have developed and passed down.
There are daily studies centered around how to attain this goal.
Quote
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
Many consider it to be just another false path, many consider it to be the true path. To this, it is often referred from Kabbalistic texts that "one's soul shall teach one" meaning that one's own desire will lead one to where one will find one's place.
However, everyone studying is obligated to do all the things that this world requires: work, family, etc. and not to obstain oneself in any way from society. This is embedded into the method of inner attainment, that one cannot increase one's desire if one does not incorporate in the desires of others.
Quote
7. the members of such a religion or sect.
see 1 in definition
Quote
8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.
–adjective 9. of or pertaining to a cult.
Bnei Baruch never refers to physical health or sickness in the method it studies.
Bnei Baruch anyone?
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: January 10, 2007 11:11PM
markos:
Where will this "naked financial budget" appear exactly within the Bnei Barcuh Web site?
Can you provide a link to the precise location where it will appear?
Will this Web site section or page include a letter from an accounting firm that has independently audited the budget to verify its content?
Where will this "naked financial budget" appear exactly within the Bnei Barcuh Web site?
Can you provide a link to the precise location where it will appear?
Will this Web site section or page include a letter from an accounting firm that has independently audited the budget to verify its content?
Bnei Baruch anyone?
Posted by:
skippypb
()
Date: January 11, 2007 07:08AM
Markos: As far as the Ramtha issue goes... The Indians never had any trouble seeing Columbus ships. The ship's records indicate that the Indians swam out to the boats, climbed aboard, and dove off them. The Indians that Columbus ran into no longer exist as a formal tribe, so it is impossible for the tribe to say anything from its own recorded history. Also, the scientists in the film are largely unaccepted by mainstream science. Why would Michael Laitman use false evidence and unaccepted evidence to prove his points? That's what I want to know.
I wanted to correct something you said too: Bnei Baruch does mention physical illness. I don't have the page number handy, but physical illness is said to be the result of something spiritual. It is not said that Bnei Baruch can cure any illness or that you wont get sick if you study Kabbalah, or even that the illness is indicative of a particular spiritual problem. It just says it is the result of a spiritual problem.
I wanted to correct something you said too: Bnei Baruch does mention physical illness. I don't have the page number handy, but physical illness is said to be the result of something spiritual. It is not said that Bnei Baruch can cure any illness or that you wont get sick if you study Kabbalah, or even that the illness is indicative of a particular spiritual problem. It just says it is the result of a spiritual problem.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.