Cohen's flip flop on his relationship with Poonja here
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Author Topic: Stas on Andrew Cohen (Read 546 times)
loringpalmer
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Karma: 0 Stas on Andrew Cohen
« Thread Started on Apr 10, 2011, 10:06pm »
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Mr. Visser: why are you featuring articles, such as those by Stas M. and Bill Y., former students of Andrew Cohen, that cherry-pick the garbage pail [excuse the mixing metaphors] in order to discredit Andrew with crap that [may have] happened years ago?
"The tree shall be known by the fruit that it bears." Andrew has evolved at the speed of light over the 21 years that I've been honored to be his student. He's empowered a group of teachers that are standing beside him to bring the message of Evolutionary Enlightenment to this world of confusion and despair. So why, Mr. Visser, do you give a platform for such attacks that present a one-sided story?
You have bigger fish to fry.
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mbaigent
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« Reply #1 on Apr 11, 2011, 8:03am »
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Andrew Cohen..... that's one very large garbage pail ...... you would have to cherry pick me thinks
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amarantha
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Re: Stas on Andrew Cohen
« Reply #2 on Apr 14, 2011, 11:59am »
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"The tree shall be known by the fruit that it bears." If this were the case, then there would be no reason at all for anyone anywhere to ever again mention Wagner's antisemitism, Heidegger's membership in the Nazi party, Picasso's womanizing, etc. But it's not the case. Hypothetical future biographers of Cohen - and his very close associate Ken Wilber - will, if the biographers seek to write balanced biographies, report not only on whatever positive contributions these men have made, but on aspects of their lives that reveal them to have shadows, flaws, imperfections, blind spots, distorted views of reality and of themselves, etc.
Cohen and Wilber are often targets of negative attention and criticism for the simple reason that they are exemplars of grandiosity and inflation.
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former student of andrew
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Re: Stas on Andrew Cohen
« Reply #3 on Apr 25, 2011, 4:05pm »
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As someone who has been involved with several spiritual communities (including Andrew's), I have found it baffling that serious spiritual students (such as Loring, Roberta, and Pete Bampton and others in Andrew's group) do not find anything wrong with some of the things that Andrew has done to his students. I've sat with this for a long time, and I'm truly trying to make sense of it, because the things Andrew has been accused of are so cut and dry to me. Why don't current students have a problem with these things?
Stas, William Yenner, and other long time students have told stories that no one denies happened, and these stories include instances when Andrew hit students, overtly lied, pressured students to give huge amounts of money, etc. Now Andrew might be a great spiritual teacher, and he might do many great things, but what is one to make of these facts? Does it matter if a spiritual teacher lies? Does it matter if a teacher slaps his students, or orders others to slap students? Does it matter if a spiritual teacher crosses personal and ethical boundaries?
Or are we to simply whitewash these events and say that it doesn't matter what Andrew did because these things pale in comparison to all the supposed good he is doing, or they don't matter because they happened a "long time" ago? Or that we are somehow missing some crucial "context" that makes these events okay?
In trying to understand Loring's position, I can only look at my own experience. When I left Andrew's group, it took me almost a decade to even begin to look at some of the things that took place in Andrew's community. I came to see that I had this huge idealistic vein that ran through me in which I wanted to see Andrew (and many other people in my life) in the most idealistic way possible. They became people to put up on a throne and worship. I needed people to look up to to make life seem worthwhile and meaningful. Through much work with my current teachers, I went through the process of letting go of this idealism in me, which was very long and painful. Ultimately, though, it was just another thing to let go of.
My guess is that Loring and other students of Andrew, many of which I admire personally, gloss over these events because to truly question them, to really sit with them, is too painful and means that they would have to question Andrew's motivations, and to do so would mean losing Andrew as their main source of idealism. Believe me, it takes a lot of guts to do that, and if Andrew's community is anything like it was when I left nearly a decade ago, that kind of openness into questioning EVERYTHING is definitely not allowed.
Questioning Andrew (or any student more senior than you) in that way is just not part of the picture when you're a student in Andrew's group. There's this huge unconscious agreement between everyone that Andrew is a Buddha or a Christ-figure, everything he says and does is completely enlightened, and almost everyone outside the group is living meaningless, compromised, shallow lives, and no one except the chosen few who follow Andrew can even comprehend, let alone judge, what is happening around Andrew.
It took me a long time to see what a bunch of crap this all is. But if you're going to be a part of Andrew's group, it's absolutely essential to keep this whole illusion intact. I think that's why Andrew can't admit to any wrongdoing, because to do so might open a tiny crack of doubt in his students that perhaps he isn't the fully enlightened individual (whatever that means) that he's always claimed himself to be. By labeling Stas, William, and anyone else who has criticized Andrew as "failures" and "losers" (see here: [
www.andrewcohen.org]), Andrew has made it very clear to his followers what happens to anyone who dares question him.
I mean, seriously? Every single person who has spoken out against Andrew is a failure who only did so because they couldn't cut it? It's statements like this that make it very clear to me that Andrew's group is a cult, pure and simple. There is no avenue for anyone to really question Andrew's actions, and there is no way to leave the group on good terms.
And when I read anything from Andrew's students, it always seems to be written by the same person. I don't see individuals in Andrew's group, I see a bunch of people who are mouthpieces for Andrew's vision. Does becoming enlightened mean that you no longer have your own ideas or thoughts?
In my experience, the process of becoming free involves paying attention to something essential inside oneself that reveals itself slowly over time. I have no control over where it goes and what it chooses to reveal to me, and my role in this process is to become aware of the obstacles obscuring me and understand them. In understanding them, the obstacles dissolve and more of my essential self is revealed. Part of my process has been to understand my time with Andrew's community and what happened there. I can say that my exploration of this has been very rich and continues to evolve.
I don't know what will happen with Andrew and his community, but my hope is that at some point he and his students truly come to terms with his shadow side, for their own sake. This has not yet occurred.
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another former student
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Re: Stas on Andrew Cohen
« Reply #4 on May 2, 2011, 10:22pm »
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Dear Former student,
Thank you for your thoughtful and authentic post. I'm totally with you on everything you said.
I admire Loring's loyalty but it breaks my heart that he is so loyal to someone who doesn't deserve it. I hope that one day he will be able to see the light of day on that.
About Staz's "I Love him, I hate him, I love him", Way to go, Staz. Great article and very clarifying. I bumped into a current student last month who has been in the community since the mid 90's. I lived with her when I first moved to Cambridge. She reminded me about the upcoming 25th (?) anniversary of Andrew's awakening and was telling me all about how he loves and admires his former teacher. I said something to the effect that it wasn't always like that and she replied that Andrew has always spoken very highly of his teacher. I was kind of scratching my head and waiting for her to unzip and some sort of alien nematode to step out of her skin. I'm pretty sure we were at all the same community meetings where Andrew was blasting the hell out of Poonjaji. Staz's article has put some light on the subject for me so thankyou for that.
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Former Student
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Re: Stas on Andrew Cohen
« Reply #5 on May 11, 2011, 6:18pm »
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I wanted to add something else to this discussion, because for some reason I find myself coming back to it. Call it righteous anger, I guess.
I was originally attracted to Andrew's community (and spirituality in general) because there was something different around these people, a different energy, more aliveness. But a big part of it was my attraction to the truth. Before I was ever attracted to anything "spiritual" I found myself gravitating to wanting to know why things were the way that they were, why people acted the way that they did, what made me tick, etc. And I noticed that not very many other people did.
I don't know what other people mean when they say The Truth (spiritual communities, including Andrew's, tend to spend a lot of time talking about this without ever really defining it), but to me the truth meant simply what was true, what was really going on. It means what is really there, what is really happening, apart from any feelings I may have about it, or any agenda I may bring to it. And of course, every spiritual community says it is only interested in the truth.
Part of the anger I feel when I read Lor's comments or other comments by Andrew's students is how little they seem to be interested in the truth while supposedly living a life dedicated to only The Truth. Further, the whole arrangement around Andrew seems rigged to ensure that no students dare question him. It's simply off limits. To do so means that they risk complete banishment to the "pits of hell" (Andrew's term). Who in their right mind would risk that? I mean, it's really completely understandable the predicament they find themselves in. But can they really say they are interested in the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
I'm going to give Lor and other students the benefit of the doubt. I bet they have questioned Andrew's actions in the privacy of their own minds. They are too intelligent (and too human) to truly push all of this stuff under the rug. But they seem to simply ignore it, or pretend it isn't really there. Or at least that's the response I've gotten from Andrew's current students when I try to talk to them about it. They do not engage in the discussion except to follow Andrew's example and shame the accusers or call them liars.
I would have a lot more respect for them if they came out and said "You know what? Andrew did slap a bunch of people because we believe that these methods work and get results." Instead you get these wishy-washy statements like those from Lor above which say these things may or may not have happened, but even if they did, they happened a long time ago so it doesn't matter anyway.
I'm angry and continue to be angry because this denial of the truth goes against everything that spirituality and freedom is supposed to be about. It's a perversion of the truth.
What I want to ask Lor is this: why can't you see how this fatally undercuts Andrew's entire message?
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Dragan
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Re: Stas on Andrew Cohen
« Reply #6 on May 13, 2011, 5:41am »
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Excellent article Stas! Thank you for once again sharing the truth that is either not known or otherwise so easily forgotten by the narcissistic leader and his brain-washed followers. The case of Andrew Cohen and his rhetoric and his followers is very similar to the case of the world leaderships, their propaganda and the general populous falling for it every time! It's blinding power of combined idealism, fear and deception. I can't see Andrew's followers posing for a moment and saying to Andrew, "Wait a minute, but you always hated your guru, how is it..." I certainly remember him utterly dismissing his guru. As long as anyone is living in the same field as Andrew, their grass will be of the same colour as Andrew sees it, one day blue, next day pink and another day, no grass at all! ...
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foyoinfo
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Re: Stas on Andrew Cohen
« Reply #7 on May 15, 2011, 7:26pm »
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See more on Cohen just posted below:
[
mumonno.blogspot.com]
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zengirl
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Re: Stas on Andrew Cohen
« Reply #8 on May 16, 2011, 12:05am »
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Ken Wilber's endorsements, past and present: Andrew Cohen, Dennis Merzel, Marc Gafni, Adi Da. (More on Merzel scandals here: [
sweepingzen.com]