Re: International Enlightenment Fellowship/Andrew Cohen
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: April 11, 2011 04:18AM
' I only ever saw one article that fundamentally opposed Cohen's worldview. That was the one about Ramesh Balsekar. Then Cohen flatly said he disagreed with Balsekar and called that worldview "Planet Advaita" as if it was irrelevant for this planet. So much for inquiry.'
If you are genuinely interested in 'inquiry' in the tradition of Advaita and not Cohen's bastardised version that is a blind alley leading to total submission to himself, then of course he has to trash Balsekar and steer his followers away from Balsekar's teaching.
I'm not a fan of Balsekar myself but he was only two steps removed from Ramana who did have a genuine and rigorous method of 'inquiry' --in the tradition of Advaita--to teach.
The operative word here is 'rigorous,' and you could do a lot worse than adopting the rigour of Ramana's thinking regarding his method, whether in the Advaita tradition or any other.
If you are genuinely interested in 'inquiry' in the tradition of Advaita and not Cohen's bastardised version that is a blind alley leading to total submission to himself, then of course he has to trash Balsekar and steer his followers away from Balsekar's teaching.
I'm not a fan of Balsekar myself but he was only two steps removed from Ramana who did have a genuine and rigorous method of 'inquiry' --in the tradition of Advaita--to teach.
The operative word here is 'rigorous,' and you could do a lot worse than adopting the rigour of Ramana's thinking regarding his method, whether in the Advaita tradition or any other.
Re: International Enlightenment Fellowship/Andrew Cohen
Posted by:
lateforbreakfast
()
Date: April 20, 2011 07:28AM
FYI - regarding the EnlightenNext-Cohen event mentioned by Corboy, there's an article questioning Andrew Cohen's motives in publicly declaring his appreciation for HWL Poonja, the teacher disavowed some years ago.
"I Love Him, I Hate Him, I Love Him Again"
"I Love Him, I Hate Him, I Love Him Again"
Re: International Enlightenment Fellowship/Andrew Cohen
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: April 20, 2011 04:24PM
Very astute article there, particularly this piece:
[www.integralworld.net]
“Around the beginning of 2007 EnlightenNext hired a woman named Nadine Hack, a consultant out of New York City to create the ‘development’ program (i.e. fundraising). One of the main things she pushed Andrew on was his relationship with his ex-students, and also his public image in relationship to other teachers, including Poonja, etc. She was very clear with him that his entire fundraising base was dependent upon him having the support of his ex-students, (especially given that more people were ex's than currents), as well as people who were exposed to him, and liked his message, but were never going to ‘join’ his movement. She was instrumental in developing the ‘evolutionaries’ program—even changing the name from the ‘revolutionaries’ to ‘evolutionaries’. So she was very much front and center for most of the organizations ‘philosophical’ changes.”
I think that this clearly shows that Cohen is attempting to position himself next as a 'world' teacher and has taken the professional advice of a PR consultant on how best to accomplish this. His entire fundraising base is dependent on his repositioning of himself to neuter or obscure the previous bad PR, and so have access to the funds of well-meaning non-followers.
Hence his attempts to legitimise himself in the eyes of the world at large and his participation in ecumenical world events of the religious great and good.
Its the next step in his dream of world domination, just like the authentic megalomaniac that he is.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2011 04:25PM by Stoic.
[www.integralworld.net]
“Around the beginning of 2007 EnlightenNext hired a woman named Nadine Hack, a consultant out of New York City to create the ‘development’ program (i.e. fundraising). One of the main things she pushed Andrew on was his relationship with his ex-students, and also his public image in relationship to other teachers, including Poonja, etc. She was very clear with him that his entire fundraising base was dependent upon him having the support of his ex-students, (especially given that more people were ex's than currents), as well as people who were exposed to him, and liked his message, but were never going to ‘join’ his movement. She was instrumental in developing the ‘evolutionaries’ program—even changing the name from the ‘revolutionaries’ to ‘evolutionaries’. So she was very much front and center for most of the organizations ‘philosophical’ changes.”
I think that this clearly shows that Cohen is attempting to position himself next as a 'world' teacher and has taken the professional advice of a PR consultant on how best to accomplish this. His entire fundraising base is dependent on his repositioning of himself to neuter or obscure the previous bad PR, and so have access to the funds of well-meaning non-followers.
Hence his attempts to legitimise himself in the eyes of the world at large and his participation in ecumenical world events of the religious great and good.
Its the next step in his dream of world domination, just like the authentic megalomaniac that he is.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2011 04:25PM by Stoic.
Re: International Enlightenment Fellowship/Andrew Cohen
Posted by:
Martin Gifford
()
Date: April 21, 2011 12:34PM
Well, the whole history of Cohen's relationship to his spiritual teacher Poonja is dodgy. First there was the weird "love affair" where Cohen kept calling Poonja his spiritual father and smothering Poonja with letters and fabulous stories of how wonderful both of them were. Then as soon as Poonja popped Cohen's bubble by criticising him, Cohen threw a fit, then wrote a book denouncing Poonja, and then reinventing the meaning of "enlightenment" to make it fit with his own perculiar standards. Then when Cohen was criticised for it as part of the long list of his faults, Cohen suddenly pretended to love Poonja again. Of course his flock of sheep didn't bat an eyelid.
But this recent grand guru-worshipping event was just so plainly self-serving and fundamentally deluded that I am astounded that so many (semi-)famous people went along with it. It just shows how deluded this current human world is.
But this recent grand guru-worshipping event was just so plainly self-serving and fundamentally deluded that I am astounded that so many (semi-)famous people went along with it. It just shows how deluded this current human world is.
Re: International Enlightenment Fellowship/Andrew Cohen
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: April 21, 2011 10:24PM
Whatever attracts a large enough crowd (or internet hits) will also attract a correspondingly large number of hustlers, whether they are already rich and wear designer clothes or are just starting out in the biz.
Some hustlers just show up to sell hotdogs or rent space for the crowd. But others are there for mutual butt scratching.
Its all to create and add to a feeling of Something Big is Happening.
Its the very thing genuine dharma practitioners see as mere intoxication, an intoxication not produced by drugs, but no less than intoxication for all that.
Some hustlers just show up to sell hotdogs or rent space for the crowd. But others are there for mutual butt scratching.
Its all to create and add to a feeling of Something Big is Happening.
Its the very thing genuine dharma practitioners see as mere intoxication, an intoxication not produced by drugs, but no less than intoxication for all that.
Re: International Enlightenment Fellowship/Andrew Cohen
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: June 16, 2011 08:49AM
Cohen's flip flop on his relationship with Poonja here
[www.integralworld.net]
Comments here on integral world message board.
[integralworld.proboards.com]
---------------------------------------
Author Topic: Stas on Andrew Cohen (Read 546 times)
loringpalmer
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« Thread Started on Apr 10, 2011, 10:06pm »
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Mr. Visser: why are you featuring articles, such as those by Stas M. and Bill Y., former students of Andrew Cohen, that cherry-pick the garbage pail [excuse the mixing metaphors] in order to discredit Andrew with crap that [may have] happened years ago?
"The tree shall be known by the fruit that it bears." Andrew has evolved at the speed of light over the 21 years that I've been honored to be his student. He's empowered a group of teachers that are standing beside him to bring the message of Evolutionary Enlightenment to this world of confusion and despair. So why, Mr. Visser, do you give a platform for such attacks that present a one-sided story?
You have bigger fish to fry.
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mbaigent
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« Reply #1 on Apr 11, 2011, 8:03am »
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Andrew Cohen..... that's one very large garbage pail ...... you would have to cherry pick me thinks
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amarantha
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Re: Stas on Andrew Cohen
« Reply #2 on Apr 14, 2011, 11:59am »
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"The tree shall be known by the fruit that it bears." If this were the case, then there would be no reason at all for anyone anywhere to ever again mention Wagner's antisemitism, Heidegger's membership in the Nazi party, Picasso's womanizing, etc. But it's not the case. Hypothetical future biographers of Cohen - and his very close associate Ken Wilber - will, if the biographers seek to write balanced biographies, report not only on whatever positive contributions these men have made, but on aspects of their lives that reveal them to have shadows, flaws, imperfections, blind spots, distorted views of reality and of themselves, etc.
Cohen and Wilber are often targets of negative attention and criticism for the simple reason that they are exemplars of grandiosity and inflation.
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former student of andrew
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Re: Stas on Andrew Cohen
« Reply #3 on Apr 25, 2011, 4:05pm »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As someone who has been involved with several spiritual communities (including Andrew's), I have found it baffling that serious spiritual students (such as Loring, Roberta, and Pete Bampton and others in Andrew's group) do not find anything wrong with some of the things that Andrew has done to his students. I've sat with this for a long time, and I'm truly trying to make sense of it, because the things Andrew has been accused of are so cut and dry to me. Why don't current students have a problem with these things?
Stas, William Yenner, and other long time students have told stories that no one denies happened, and these stories include instances when Andrew hit students, overtly lied, pressured students to give huge amounts of money, etc. Now Andrew might be a great spiritual teacher, and he might do many great things, but what is one to make of these facts? Does it matter if a spiritual teacher lies? Does it matter if a teacher slaps his students, or orders others to slap students? Does it matter if a spiritual teacher crosses personal and ethical boundaries?
Or are we to simply whitewash these events and say that it doesn't matter what Andrew did because these things pale in comparison to all the supposed good he is doing, or they don't matter because they happened a "long time" ago? Or that we are somehow missing some crucial "context" that makes these events okay?
In trying to understand Loring's position, I can only look at my own experience. When I left Andrew's group, it took me almost a decade to even begin to look at some of the things that took place in Andrew's community. I came to see that I had this huge idealistic vein that ran through me in which I wanted to see Andrew (and many other people in my life) in the most idealistic way possible. They became people to put up on a throne and worship. I needed people to look up to to make life seem worthwhile and meaningful. Through much work with my current teachers, I went through the process of letting go of this idealism in me, which was very long and painful. Ultimately, though, it was just another thing to let go of.
My guess is that Loring and other students of Andrew, many of which I admire personally, gloss over these events because to truly question them, to really sit with them, is too painful and means that they would have to question Andrew's motivations, and to do so would mean losing Andrew as their main source of idealism. Believe me, it takes a lot of guts to do that, and if Andrew's community is anything like it was when I left nearly a decade ago, that kind of openness into questioning EVERYTHING is definitely not allowed.
Questioning Andrew (or any student more senior than you) in that way is just not part of the picture when you're a student in Andrew's group. There's this huge unconscious agreement between everyone that Andrew is a Buddha or a Christ-figure, everything he says and does is completely enlightened, and almost everyone outside the group is living meaningless, compromised, shallow lives, and no one except the chosen few who follow Andrew can even comprehend, let alone judge, what is happening around Andrew.
It took me a long time to see what a bunch of crap this all is. But if you're going to be a part of Andrew's group, it's absolutely essential to keep this whole illusion intact. I think that's why Andrew can't admit to any wrongdoing, because to do so might open a tiny crack of doubt in his students that perhaps he isn't the fully enlightened individual (whatever that means) that he's always claimed himself to be. By labeling Stas, William, and anyone else who has criticized Andrew as "failures" and "losers" (see here: [www.andrewcohen.org]), Andrew has made it very clear to his followers what happens to anyone who dares question him.
I mean, seriously? Every single person who has spoken out against Andrew is a failure who only did so because they couldn't cut it? It's statements like this that make it very clear to me that Andrew's group is a cult, pure and simple. There is no avenue for anyone to really question Andrew's actions, and there is no way to leave the group on good terms.
And when I read anything from Andrew's students, it always seems to be written by the same person. I don't see individuals in Andrew's group, I see a bunch of people who are mouthpieces for Andrew's vision. Does becoming enlightened mean that you no longer have your own ideas or thoughts?
In my experience, the process of becoming free involves paying attention to something essential inside oneself that reveals itself slowly over time. I have no control over where it goes and what it chooses to reveal to me, and my role in this process is to become aware of the obstacles obscuring me and understand them. In understanding them, the obstacles dissolve and more of my essential self is revealed. Part of my process has been to understand my time with Andrew's community and what happened there. I can say that my exploration of this has been very rich and continues to evolve.
I don't know what will happen with Andrew and his community, but my hope is that at some point he and his students truly come to terms with his shadow side, for their own sake. This has not yet occurred.
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another former student
Guest
Re: Stas on Andrew Cohen
« Reply #4 on May 2, 2011, 10:22pm »
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Dear Former student,
Thank you for your thoughtful and authentic post. I'm totally with you on everything you said.
I admire Loring's loyalty but it breaks my heart that he is so loyal to someone who doesn't deserve it. I hope that one day he will be able to see the light of day on that.
About Staz's "I Love him, I hate him, I love him", Way to go, Staz. Great article and very clarifying. I bumped into a current student last month who has been in the community since the mid 90's. I lived with her when I first moved to Cambridge. She reminded me about the upcoming 25th (?) anniversary of Andrew's awakening and was telling me all about how he loves and admires his former teacher. I said something to the effect that it wasn't always like that and she replied that Andrew has always spoken very highly of his teacher. I was kind of scratching my head and waiting for her to unzip and some sort of alien nematode to step out of her skin. I'm pretty sure we were at all the same community meetings where Andrew was blasting the hell out of Poonjaji. Staz's article has put some light on the subject for me so thankyou for that.
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Former Student
Guest
Re: Stas on Andrew Cohen
« Reply #5 on May 11, 2011, 6:18pm »
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I wanted to add something else to this discussion, because for some reason I find myself coming back to it. Call it righteous anger, I guess.
I was originally attracted to Andrew's community (and spirituality in general) because there was something different around these people, a different energy, more aliveness. But a big part of it was my attraction to the truth. Before I was ever attracted to anything "spiritual" I found myself gravitating to wanting to know why things were the way that they were, why people acted the way that they did, what made me tick, etc. And I noticed that not very many other people did.
I don't know what other people mean when they say The Truth (spiritual communities, including Andrew's, tend to spend a lot of time talking about this without ever really defining it), but to me the truth meant simply what was true, what was really going on. It means what is really there, what is really happening, apart from any feelings I may have about it, or any agenda I may bring to it. And of course, every spiritual community says it is only interested in the truth.
Part of the anger I feel when I read Lor's comments or other comments by Andrew's students is how little they seem to be interested in the truth while supposedly living a life dedicated to only The Truth. Further, the whole arrangement around Andrew seems rigged to ensure that no students dare question him. It's simply off limits. To do so means that they risk complete banishment to the "pits of hell" (Andrew's term). Who in their right mind would risk that? I mean, it's really completely understandable the predicament they find themselves in. But can they really say they are interested in the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
I'm going to give Lor and other students the benefit of the doubt. I bet they have questioned Andrew's actions in the privacy of their own minds. They are too intelligent (and too human) to truly push all of this stuff under the rug. But they seem to simply ignore it, or pretend it isn't really there. Or at least that's the response I've gotten from Andrew's current students when I try to talk to them about it. They do not engage in the discussion except to follow Andrew's example and shame the accusers or call them liars.
I would have a lot more respect for them if they came out and said "You know what? Andrew did slap a bunch of people because we believe that these methods work and get results." Instead you get these wishy-washy statements like those from Lor above which say these things may or may not have happened, but even if they did, they happened a long time ago so it doesn't matter anyway.
I'm angry and continue to be angry because this denial of the truth goes against everything that spirituality and freedom is supposed to be about. It's a perversion of the truth.
What I want to ask Lor is this: why can't you see how this fatally undercuts Andrew's entire message?
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Dragan
Guest
Re: Stas on Andrew Cohen
« Reply #6 on May 13, 2011, 5:41am »
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Excellent article Stas! Thank you for once again sharing the truth that is either not known or otherwise so easily forgotten by the narcissistic leader and his brain-washed followers. The case of Andrew Cohen and his rhetoric and his followers is very similar to the case of the world leaderships, their propaganda and the general populous falling for it every time! It's blinding power of combined idealism, fear and deception. I can't see Andrew's followers posing for a moment and saying to Andrew, "Wait a minute, but you always hated your guru, how is it..." I certainly remember him utterly dismissing his guru. As long as anyone is living in the same field as Andrew, their grass will be of the same colour as Andrew sees it, one day blue, next day pink and another day, no grass at all! ...
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foyoinfo
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Re: Stas on Andrew Cohen
« Reply #7 on May 15, 2011, 7:26pm »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See more on Cohen just posted below:
[mumonno.blogspot.com]
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zengirl
Guest
Re: Stas on Andrew Cohen
« Reply #8 on May 16, 2011, 12:05am »
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Ken Wilber's endorsements, past and present: Andrew Cohen, Dennis Merzel, Marc Gafni, Adi Da. (More on Merzel scandals here: [sweepingzen.com]
[www.integralworld.net]
Comments here on integral world message board.
[integralworld.proboards.com]
---------------------------------------
Author Topic: Stas on Andrew Cohen (Read 546 times)
loringpalmer
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member is offline
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Karma: 0 Stas on Andrew Cohen
« Thread Started on Apr 10, 2011, 10:06pm »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Visser: why are you featuring articles, such as those by Stas M. and Bill Y., former students of Andrew Cohen, that cherry-pick the garbage pail [excuse the mixing metaphors] in order to discredit Andrew with crap that [may have] happened years ago?
"The tree shall be known by the fruit that it bears." Andrew has evolved at the speed of light over the 21 years that I've been honored to be his student. He's empowered a group of teachers that are standing beside him to bring the message of Evolutionary Enlightenment to this world of confusion and despair. So why, Mr. Visser, do you give a platform for such attacks that present a one-sided story?
You have bigger fish to fry.
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mbaigent
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Posts: 3
Karma: 0 Re: Stas on Andrew Cohen
« Reply #1 on Apr 11, 2011, 8:03am »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Cohen..... that's one very large garbage pail ...... you would have to cherry pick me thinks
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amarantha
Guest
Re: Stas on Andrew Cohen
« Reply #2 on Apr 14, 2011, 11:59am »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The tree shall be known by the fruit that it bears." If this were the case, then there would be no reason at all for anyone anywhere to ever again mention Wagner's antisemitism, Heidegger's membership in the Nazi party, Picasso's womanizing, etc. But it's not the case. Hypothetical future biographers of Cohen - and his very close associate Ken Wilber - will, if the biographers seek to write balanced biographies, report not only on whatever positive contributions these men have made, but on aspects of their lives that reveal them to have shadows, flaws, imperfections, blind spots, distorted views of reality and of themselves, etc.
Cohen and Wilber are often targets of negative attention and criticism for the simple reason that they are exemplars of grandiosity and inflation.
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former student of andrew
Guest
Re: Stas on Andrew Cohen
« Reply #3 on Apr 25, 2011, 4:05pm »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As someone who has been involved with several spiritual communities (including Andrew's), I have found it baffling that serious spiritual students (such as Loring, Roberta, and Pete Bampton and others in Andrew's group) do not find anything wrong with some of the things that Andrew has done to his students. I've sat with this for a long time, and I'm truly trying to make sense of it, because the things Andrew has been accused of are so cut and dry to me. Why don't current students have a problem with these things?
Stas, William Yenner, and other long time students have told stories that no one denies happened, and these stories include instances when Andrew hit students, overtly lied, pressured students to give huge amounts of money, etc. Now Andrew might be a great spiritual teacher, and he might do many great things, but what is one to make of these facts? Does it matter if a spiritual teacher lies? Does it matter if a teacher slaps his students, or orders others to slap students? Does it matter if a spiritual teacher crosses personal and ethical boundaries?
Or are we to simply whitewash these events and say that it doesn't matter what Andrew did because these things pale in comparison to all the supposed good he is doing, or they don't matter because they happened a "long time" ago? Or that we are somehow missing some crucial "context" that makes these events okay?
In trying to understand Loring's position, I can only look at my own experience. When I left Andrew's group, it took me almost a decade to even begin to look at some of the things that took place in Andrew's community. I came to see that I had this huge idealistic vein that ran through me in which I wanted to see Andrew (and many other people in my life) in the most idealistic way possible. They became people to put up on a throne and worship. I needed people to look up to to make life seem worthwhile and meaningful. Through much work with my current teachers, I went through the process of letting go of this idealism in me, which was very long and painful. Ultimately, though, it was just another thing to let go of.
My guess is that Loring and other students of Andrew, many of which I admire personally, gloss over these events because to truly question them, to really sit with them, is too painful and means that they would have to question Andrew's motivations, and to do so would mean losing Andrew as their main source of idealism. Believe me, it takes a lot of guts to do that, and if Andrew's community is anything like it was when I left nearly a decade ago, that kind of openness into questioning EVERYTHING is definitely not allowed.
Questioning Andrew (or any student more senior than you) in that way is just not part of the picture when you're a student in Andrew's group. There's this huge unconscious agreement between everyone that Andrew is a Buddha or a Christ-figure, everything he says and does is completely enlightened, and almost everyone outside the group is living meaningless, compromised, shallow lives, and no one except the chosen few who follow Andrew can even comprehend, let alone judge, what is happening around Andrew.
It took me a long time to see what a bunch of crap this all is. But if you're going to be a part of Andrew's group, it's absolutely essential to keep this whole illusion intact. I think that's why Andrew can't admit to any wrongdoing, because to do so might open a tiny crack of doubt in his students that perhaps he isn't the fully enlightened individual (whatever that means) that he's always claimed himself to be. By labeling Stas, William, and anyone else who has criticized Andrew as "failures" and "losers" (see here: [www.andrewcohen.org]), Andrew has made it very clear to his followers what happens to anyone who dares question him.
I mean, seriously? Every single person who has spoken out against Andrew is a failure who only did so because they couldn't cut it? It's statements like this that make it very clear to me that Andrew's group is a cult, pure and simple. There is no avenue for anyone to really question Andrew's actions, and there is no way to leave the group on good terms.
And when I read anything from Andrew's students, it always seems to be written by the same person. I don't see individuals in Andrew's group, I see a bunch of people who are mouthpieces for Andrew's vision. Does becoming enlightened mean that you no longer have your own ideas or thoughts?
In my experience, the process of becoming free involves paying attention to something essential inside oneself that reveals itself slowly over time. I have no control over where it goes and what it chooses to reveal to me, and my role in this process is to become aware of the obstacles obscuring me and understand them. In understanding them, the obstacles dissolve and more of my essential self is revealed. Part of my process has been to understand my time with Andrew's community and what happened there. I can say that my exploration of this has been very rich and continues to evolve.
I don't know what will happen with Andrew and his community, but my hope is that at some point he and his students truly come to terms with his shadow side, for their own sake. This has not yet occurred.
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another former student
Guest
Re: Stas on Andrew Cohen
« Reply #4 on May 2, 2011, 10:22pm »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Former student,
Thank you for your thoughtful and authentic post. I'm totally with you on everything you said.
I admire Loring's loyalty but it breaks my heart that he is so loyal to someone who doesn't deserve it. I hope that one day he will be able to see the light of day on that.
About Staz's "I Love him, I hate him, I love him", Way to go, Staz. Great article and very clarifying. I bumped into a current student last month who has been in the community since the mid 90's. I lived with her when I first moved to Cambridge. She reminded me about the upcoming 25th (?) anniversary of Andrew's awakening and was telling me all about how he loves and admires his former teacher. I said something to the effect that it wasn't always like that and she replied that Andrew has always spoken very highly of his teacher. I was kind of scratching my head and waiting for her to unzip and some sort of alien nematode to step out of her skin. I'm pretty sure we were at all the same community meetings where Andrew was blasting the hell out of Poonjaji. Staz's article has put some light on the subject for me so thankyou for that.
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Former Student
Guest
Re: Stas on Andrew Cohen
« Reply #5 on May 11, 2011, 6:18pm »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wanted to add something else to this discussion, because for some reason I find myself coming back to it. Call it righteous anger, I guess.
I was originally attracted to Andrew's community (and spirituality in general) because there was something different around these people, a different energy, more aliveness. But a big part of it was my attraction to the truth. Before I was ever attracted to anything "spiritual" I found myself gravitating to wanting to know why things were the way that they were, why people acted the way that they did, what made me tick, etc. And I noticed that not very many other people did.
I don't know what other people mean when they say The Truth (spiritual communities, including Andrew's, tend to spend a lot of time talking about this without ever really defining it), but to me the truth meant simply what was true, what was really going on. It means what is really there, what is really happening, apart from any feelings I may have about it, or any agenda I may bring to it. And of course, every spiritual community says it is only interested in the truth.
Part of the anger I feel when I read Lor's comments or other comments by Andrew's students is how little they seem to be interested in the truth while supposedly living a life dedicated to only The Truth. Further, the whole arrangement around Andrew seems rigged to ensure that no students dare question him. It's simply off limits. To do so means that they risk complete banishment to the "pits of hell" (Andrew's term). Who in their right mind would risk that? I mean, it's really completely understandable the predicament they find themselves in. But can they really say they are interested in the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
I'm going to give Lor and other students the benefit of the doubt. I bet they have questioned Andrew's actions in the privacy of their own minds. They are too intelligent (and too human) to truly push all of this stuff under the rug. But they seem to simply ignore it, or pretend it isn't really there. Or at least that's the response I've gotten from Andrew's current students when I try to talk to them about it. They do not engage in the discussion except to follow Andrew's example and shame the accusers or call them liars.
I would have a lot more respect for them if they came out and said "You know what? Andrew did slap a bunch of people because we believe that these methods work and get results." Instead you get these wishy-washy statements like those from Lor above which say these things may or may not have happened, but even if they did, they happened a long time ago so it doesn't matter anyway.
I'm angry and continue to be angry because this denial of the truth goes against everything that spirituality and freedom is supposed to be about. It's a perversion of the truth.
What I want to ask Lor is this: why can't you see how this fatally undercuts Andrew's entire message?
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Dragan
Guest
Re: Stas on Andrew Cohen
« Reply #6 on May 13, 2011, 5:41am »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Excellent article Stas! Thank you for once again sharing the truth that is either not known or otherwise so easily forgotten by the narcissistic leader and his brain-washed followers. The case of Andrew Cohen and his rhetoric and his followers is very similar to the case of the world leaderships, their propaganda and the general populous falling for it every time! It's blinding power of combined idealism, fear and deception. I can't see Andrew's followers posing for a moment and saying to Andrew, "Wait a minute, but you always hated your guru, how is it..." I certainly remember him utterly dismissing his guru. As long as anyone is living in the same field as Andrew, their grass will be of the same colour as Andrew sees it, one day blue, next day pink and another day, no grass at all! ...
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foyoinfo
Guest
Re: Stas on Andrew Cohen
« Reply #7 on May 15, 2011, 7:26pm »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See more on Cohen just posted below:
[mumonno.blogspot.com]
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zengirl
Guest
Re: Stas on Andrew Cohen
« Reply #8 on May 16, 2011, 12:05am »
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Ken Wilber's endorsements, past and present: Andrew Cohen, Dennis Merzel, Marc Gafni, Adi Da. (More on Merzel scandals here: [sweepingzen.com]
Re: International Enlightenment Fellowship/Andrew Cohen
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: June 16, 2011 11:16PM
American Guru Author William YennerInterviewed on Smart Authors Website
"Marcellus' fame, like a tree, grows by unseen stages" Horace, Book One, Ode 12
[www.smartauthorsites.com]
Final note by Corboy
[forum.culteducation.com]
Mr Andrew Cohen has become one of the most well documented controversial gurus in the Anglophone world.
It is to be hoped that if anyone still decides to entrust their emotions and bodies to his and his senior disciples' ministrations, they will be able to recognize earlier when they have gone from being challenged to being harmed, and remove themselves from Cohens orbit and from the noxious sector of the human potential scene in which abuse adn power are romanticised and rationalized as being necessary for human evolution--when all this does is result in human devolution.
"Marcellus' fame, like a tree, grows by unseen stages" Horace, Book One, Ode 12
[www.smartauthorsites.com]
Quote
We continue our Author Success Story series by featuring William Yenner, author of American Guru. His website, AmericanGuru.net, receives over 5,000 visitors per month. Here’s how he did it…
Who built your website? How was the experience?
Built by Smart Author Sites, I was happy with the result. Especially liked the way the overall design worked out, the top banner and the buttons to all the important sections.
Which social networking sites do you regularly participate in?
I am on Facebook. I used my book cover instead of my photo. However, FB has not been an important part of my online presence.
How many online followers do you have? How many pageviews have you gotten on your website?
According to stats from my web hosting, my monthly visitor totals has been in the range of 5,000 to 8,000 per month since the site began in Fall of 2009.
How has your online presence increased your visibility/book sales?
This is hard to measure exactly, but I think most of my readers were first introduced to my book via something on the internet, most likely my book site: [americanguru.net] and the book is also listed on Amazon.
What is your “secret” to achieving this success? Were there any tricks or creative ideas (i.e. a contest) that you used?
The key to the interest in my book, I feel, is both the general interest in the subject matter, and the quality of reporting and analysis provided by the book. The book is about a very controversial spiritual teacher and his organization, and reveals, in a lot of detail, many examples of physical, emotional and financial abuse. Some strongly disagree with my thesis, and that “heat” adds to the general interest in the book.
(Corboy note: This is very different from the attitude demonstrated by Mr Cohen and his minions, who dislike any 'heat' that issues from any source other than Cohen and his own supporters)
Is there anything you would do differently if you were starting over again?
I spent quite a bit on a legal vetting of the manuscript, which in hindsight was a waste of money. Here’s all I needed to know about the legal angle: scrupulously tell the truth, be very careful to double and triple check facts, and in that there is the best protection from liability. No lawyer can do that for you.
What is the greatest lesson you’ve learned in the process of building your online presence as an author?
Just staying with it, following up any opportunities for conversation, welcome disagreements, be “out there” without being a pest, carry on calmly, send appreciations to anyone who contributes to the conversation. My website contains a “News and Reviews” section to which I frequently add new articles, so there is something to attract people back over and over again.
How and where do you promote your website? Is the URL on business cards? Your email signature?
The URL is on the book, and it’s on a few other sites which cover this topic, and the book has also been mentioned in a few media stories. All of these are also posted and mentioned on my site. I’ve also generated a list of about 800 names of people interested in the topic and every few months I send out a newsletter. I have a business card with the book cover on it, along with the URL, which makes a great hand out whenever I mention the book to someone. I have also given away a number of free copies to people in a field of work that is related.
Final words of wisdom for any new authors wondering how to get started….
Write about something you believe in, give all the effort needed to turn out a good manuscript, stand behind what you’ve written and carry on with following up.
Final note by Corboy
Quote
Mr. Yenner wisely wrote his book first, and only after completing the
MS and arranging for its publication, did he go public when an article by him was posted on July 2009 on the What Enlightenment, website. Its now September and we've been informed the book is available for purchase.
This is the way to do it.
Research and write your book first, arrange its publication.
Only after doing that, let the world know.
Otherwise, if you make the mistake of running a personal blog and announcing your intention of someday writing a memoir about an oppressive guru, you may find your comments section swamped by guru loyalists who know how to press shame buttons installed in you during your time with the guru. They may not only 'astroturf' the comments section but their use of shame triggers may cripple the momentum needed to create and complete your much needed book.
So..do as Mr Yenner did. Dont blog about a book before it has been sent to the publisher.
Write and publish the book and then start a web page.
Which brings the total number of books about Andrew Cohen to three:
The Mother of God by Cohen's mother, Luna Tarlo
Enlightenment Blues, by Andre van der Braak
American Guru by William Yenner.
[forum.culteducation.com]
Mr Andrew Cohen has become one of the most well documented controversial gurus in the Anglophone world.
It is to be hoped that if anyone still decides to entrust their emotions and bodies to his and his senior disciples' ministrations, they will be able to recognize earlier when they have gone from being challenged to being harmed, and remove themselves from Cohens orbit and from the noxious sector of the human potential scene in which abuse adn power are romanticised and rationalized as being necessary for human evolution--when all this does is result in human devolution.
Re: International Enlightenment Fellowship/Andrew Cohen
Posted by:
Martin Gifford
()
Date: June 17, 2011 09:17AM
Yenner: "Some strongly disagree with my thesis, and that “heat” adds to the general interest in the book."
"(Corboy note: This is very different from the attitude demonstrated by Mr Cohen and his minions, who dislike any 'heat' that issues from any source other than Cohen and his own supporters)"
Yes. My experience with the Cohenites is that they read something critical about their perfect guru, then they embarrassingly lurch into conversations and blurt out memorised Cohenisms. When you challenge them, instead of engaging in debate and backing up their claims, they pretend they've heard it all before, obfuscate, go looking for positive comments and backup from others, and basically stop thinking. Finally, if they have the power, they delete your comments. If they can't do that, they simply disappear from the discussion. They go running back to the group, saying they don't have time.
In the beginning, I was interested in opening up a dialogue and getting movement and fluidity and balance because I actually think Cohen has some good things to say, but his disciples' responses really proved to me that it is hopeless. I held hope for them, but it turns out they really are completely brainwashed cult-victims. They are incapable of seeing anything other than Cohenism. When they talk, they are just channeling Cohen. It's like there's no one home.
I met one a few years ago, and I could feel the softness and openness he once had was gone and now he looked as if he was inhabited by Cohen - he had that cold hard look in his eyes and you could feel Cohen's edgy anger bubbling underneath. Creepy. In Cohenism, failing to be like Cohen indicates lack of "perfect integrity".
"(Corboy note: This is very different from the attitude demonstrated by Mr Cohen and his minions, who dislike any 'heat' that issues from any source other than Cohen and his own supporters)"
Yes. My experience with the Cohenites is that they read something critical about their perfect guru, then they embarrassingly lurch into conversations and blurt out memorised Cohenisms. When you challenge them, instead of engaging in debate and backing up their claims, they pretend they've heard it all before, obfuscate, go looking for positive comments and backup from others, and basically stop thinking. Finally, if they have the power, they delete your comments. If they can't do that, they simply disappear from the discussion. They go running back to the group, saying they don't have time.
In the beginning, I was interested in opening up a dialogue and getting movement and fluidity and balance because I actually think Cohen has some good things to say, but his disciples' responses really proved to me that it is hopeless. I held hope for them, but it turns out they really are completely brainwashed cult-victims. They are incapable of seeing anything other than Cohenism. When they talk, they are just channeling Cohen. It's like there's no one home.
I met one a few years ago, and I could feel the softness and openness he once had was gone and now he looked as if he was inhabited by Cohen - he had that cold hard look in his eyes and you could feel Cohen's edgy anger bubbling underneath. Creepy. In Cohenism, failing to be like Cohen indicates lack of "perfect integrity".
Re: International Enlightenment Fellowship/Andrew Cohen
Posted by:
Penelope
()
Date: June 17, 2011 07:40PM
Quote
Martin Gifford
In the beginning, I was interested in opening up a dialogue and getting movement and fluidity and balance because I actually think Cohen has some good things to say....
Oh, they ALL have something good to say. I have heard this from EVERY group under the sun. Of course they offer good ideas and some truths, otherwise you would never have joined. That's the trick, they throw in some wise, helpful and enlightened ideas and mix it in with the bullshit. Every cult, sect and new religious movement does this, it makes the bullshit more effective.
Re: International Enlightenment Fellowship/Andrew Cohen
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: June 17, 2011 07:59PM
Martin Gifford says something important here:
One cannot just walk away from a setting so intense that , by Martin Gifford's description a guru has psycholocially impregnated the personality of his or her targets.
At some point, perhaps one or more of Cohen's former students may attempt to set up independent careers as teachers, believing they have freed themselves from Cohen's influence, extruded him from their selves, that they can teach the material cleanly.
Im my First Amendment protected citizens opinion, this will be a great challenge.
If the 'evolutionary spirituality' material has been, over the years, designed in such a way as to trigger Cohen-specific emotional states, trying to teach this evolutionary spirituality material apart from Cohen may either not be possible, or be more difficult than a former student may imagine.
If that material has been composed in such a way as to trigger Cohen specific emotional states and blind spots, including an emphasis on elitism, hardness, the need for struggle, utter contempt for so called softer virtues such as empathy, kindness, and compassion, one may evoke the emotional states of Cohenism, merely by teaching the material, even if Cohen is not physically present. And one may re trigger Cohens presence in oneself and also within a new generation of students.
This is just a hunch, but it might be worth sober appraisal--especially by anyone who wants to be an independent teacher.
One may have walked away from Cohen, but if one tries to teach the Cohenian material apart from Cohen, if that evolutionary material has been composed to insert Cohens harsh critical voice and priorities into oneself, it may not be evolutionary at all--it may just cause the instructor and students to devolve into and re-trigger emotional states and stances promoted by Cohen himself.
(Rather like the feeling one gets when back in ones childhood bedroom and trying to have an adult discussion with Mom or Dad)
Ditto for attempting to use Ken Wilbers material to 'recover' from Andrew Cohen. Since from Martin Gifford's observation, Cohen appears to establish himself within the emotions of many of his students and himself uses Ken Wilbers material, any use of Wilbers material apart from Cohen may still trigger echoes of Cohen within those who have left physically.
What is noteworthy is that it has taken most of Cohen's former students (except for Luna Tarlo) at least 10 years before they could begin to speak out publicly.
In the early shares on What Enlightenment? blog, many described dreadful treatment yet at the same time revealed tremendous lingering loyalty and real concern for Cohens welfare--a concern Cohen never reciprocated for those of his many students whom he either rejected or who departed into the night.
Given how many years it has taken for many ex students to find their voices and speak out, former Cohen students who desire to teach will need to take considerable time--several years--and undergo professional therapy to examine, identify and extrude traces of Cohens personality and to recover the split off emotions and experiences they had to deny in order to remain with Cohen. And to convince themselves that the abuse they suffered had not been abuse but was a special privilege.
(This is nothing more than a re-enactment of the role of the parental 'special' child who is drafted into taking care of the emotional needs of disturbed parents and is used as an object to soothe and comfort the parent, losing both childhood and selfhood in the process. The used child is conned to think that he or she is 'special' and that the specialness compensates for the revulsion, confusion and fear the child denies feeling.
If one is in this role in childhood and has not examined this, it is easy to be recruited into that same role of parenting a tantrum producing guru and to believe this suffering is necessary, evolutionary, and that the specialness makes it all worth it. This re-enacts the miserable past and is not an evolutionary step at all. )
The future teacher who would fully be free from Cohens influence must examine both Cohen and also the past relationships that preceded recruitment into Cohen's world. That persons therapist would need solid credentials as a specialist in trauma/abuse and must not buy into the Wilberian Integral material. Ideally one should look for a specialist who socializes strictly with colleagues, and is credentialled as a specialist in trauma. If that therapist has a good reputation for working with combat veterans, this is a plus, for anyone who has lived under Cohens control has been in combat.
I would also advise that persons who have lived under Cohen system for many years deserve to seek medical consultation and should be evaluated head to to see whether their cardiovascular health or carbohydrate metabolism has been adversely affected by years of severe stress. Disturbed sleep patterns will need correction.
Disclaimer. This personal opinion. One can agree or disagree as one chooses. These recommendations have been written from the stand point of an educated layperson but one who has no professional credentials per se.
Requests for referral to expert therapists/exit counselors should be directed to Mr Ross.
Quote
They are incapable of seeing anything other than Cohenism. When they talk, they are just channeling Cohen. It's like there's no one home.
I met one a few years ago, and I could feel the softness and openness he once had was gone and now he looked as if he was inhabited by Cohen - he had that cold hard look in his eyes and you could feel Cohen's edgy anger bubbling underneath. Creepy. In Cohenism, failing to be like Cohen indicates lack of "perfect integrity".
One cannot just walk away from a setting so intense that , by Martin Gifford's description a guru has psycholocially impregnated the personality of his or her targets.
At some point, perhaps one or more of Cohen's former students may attempt to set up independent careers as teachers, believing they have freed themselves from Cohen's influence, extruded him from their selves, that they can teach the material cleanly.
Im my First Amendment protected citizens opinion, this will be a great challenge.
If the 'evolutionary spirituality' material has been, over the years, designed in such a way as to trigger Cohen-specific emotional states, trying to teach this evolutionary spirituality material apart from Cohen may either not be possible, or be more difficult than a former student may imagine.
If that material has been composed in such a way as to trigger Cohen specific emotional states and blind spots, including an emphasis on elitism, hardness, the need for struggle, utter contempt for so called softer virtues such as empathy, kindness, and compassion, one may evoke the emotional states of Cohenism, merely by teaching the material, even if Cohen is not physically present. And one may re trigger Cohens presence in oneself and also within a new generation of students.
This is just a hunch, but it might be worth sober appraisal--especially by anyone who wants to be an independent teacher.
One may have walked away from Cohen, but if one tries to teach the Cohenian material apart from Cohen, if that evolutionary material has been composed to insert Cohens harsh critical voice and priorities into oneself, it may not be evolutionary at all--it may just cause the instructor and students to devolve into and re-trigger emotional states and stances promoted by Cohen himself.
(Rather like the feeling one gets when back in ones childhood bedroom and trying to have an adult discussion with Mom or Dad)
Ditto for attempting to use Ken Wilbers material to 'recover' from Andrew Cohen. Since from Martin Gifford's observation, Cohen appears to establish himself within the emotions of many of his students and himself uses Ken Wilbers material, any use of Wilbers material apart from Cohen may still trigger echoes of Cohen within those who have left physically.
What is noteworthy is that it has taken most of Cohen's former students (except for Luna Tarlo) at least 10 years before they could begin to speak out publicly.
In the early shares on What Enlightenment? blog, many described dreadful treatment yet at the same time revealed tremendous lingering loyalty and real concern for Cohens welfare--a concern Cohen never reciprocated for those of his many students whom he either rejected or who departed into the night.
Given how many years it has taken for many ex students to find their voices and speak out, former Cohen students who desire to teach will need to take considerable time--several years--and undergo professional therapy to examine, identify and extrude traces of Cohens personality and to recover the split off emotions and experiences they had to deny in order to remain with Cohen. And to convince themselves that the abuse they suffered had not been abuse but was a special privilege.
(This is nothing more than a re-enactment of the role of the parental 'special' child who is drafted into taking care of the emotional needs of disturbed parents and is used as an object to soothe and comfort the parent, losing both childhood and selfhood in the process. The used child is conned to think that he or she is 'special' and that the specialness compensates for the revulsion, confusion and fear the child denies feeling.
If one is in this role in childhood and has not examined this, it is easy to be recruited into that same role of parenting a tantrum producing guru and to believe this suffering is necessary, evolutionary, and that the specialness makes it all worth it. This re-enacts the miserable past and is not an evolutionary step at all. )
The future teacher who would fully be free from Cohens influence must examine both Cohen and also the past relationships that preceded recruitment into Cohen's world. That persons therapist would need solid credentials as a specialist in trauma/abuse and must not buy into the Wilberian Integral material. Ideally one should look for a specialist who socializes strictly with colleagues, and is credentialled as a specialist in trauma. If that therapist has a good reputation for working with combat veterans, this is a plus, for anyone who has lived under Cohens control has been in combat.
I would also advise that persons who have lived under Cohen system for many years deserve to seek medical consultation and should be evaluated head to to see whether their cardiovascular health or carbohydrate metabolism has been adversely affected by years of severe stress. Disturbed sleep patterns will need correction.
Disclaimer. This personal opinion. One can agree or disagree as one chooses. These recommendations have been written from the stand point of an educated layperson but one who has no professional credentials per se.
Requests for referral to expert therapists/exit counselors should be directed to Mr Ross.
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