From:
[
welikejesus.com]
"Rob wrote:
The other thing, is who cares if the system recognises our authority or not? Why is that important? It is truth and justice in God's eyes that is really what matters."
It seems to matter to Paul:
Romans 12:9-13:11 wrote:
Let love be without hypocrisy Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good.
Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor;
not lagging behind in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord;
rejoicing in hope, persevering in tribulation, devoted to prayer,
contributing to the needs of the saints, practicing hospitality.
Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.
Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep.
Be of the same mind toward one another; do not be haughty in mind, but associate with the lowly. Do not be wise in your own estimation.
Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all men.
If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.
Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord.
"BUT IF YOUR ENEMY IS HUNGRY, FEED HIM, AND IF HE IS THIRSTY, GIVE HIM A DRINK; FOR IN SO DOING YOU WILL HEAP BURNING COALS ON HIS HEAD."
Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Romans 13
Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.
Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.
For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same;
for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.
Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience' sake.
For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing.
Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.
we nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Do this, knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed.
"Rob wrote:
would argue that EVERYONE is under God's authority (whether they like it or not!) and that God is going to judge the world and he may even use us to do it!"
1Cr 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
I will start by saying that of course everyone is under God's authority. I will also say that not everybody is under the Jesus Christians. The group is not synonymous with God, nor are they claimants on His authority.
You'll note that Paul's argument in the passage you referred to was that since the saints would judge the world in the future, then surely we could resolve internal squabbles among ourselves without referring to external authority. Putting that back into the issue at hand, the ones being punished are not members of the Church, nor of the Jesus Christians, and so it is not an internal matter, and the Jesus Christians have no right to dictate.
Also, here's some context to that verse you quoted, a few verses before:
1 Corinthians 5:12 wrote:
For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?"
Another thing I can't figure out is why Dave and his followers will say on the one hand that they are not subject to system authority, system rules, and yet use that same authority and those same rules to their advantage when it suits them? Why say that the whole point of the trial and whippings was to show that they operate independant of authority and were doing this instead of prosecuting Joe's Dad and brother criminally, but then went ahead and did so anyway? Why does Dave feign
fear and call the very cops he is so contemptuous of? Didn't you stage this whole thing to be a big commercial for the Jesus Christians, except you didn't reckon it'd backfire, did you Dave? How arrogant and self-entitled are you? You need to make peace with your own children Dave, not lash out at the world by pimping out other people's on the street to sell your stupid books and whoring for publicity. You made yourself look like an a**hole on TV.