A little while back, if you review the postings, Brian had bewailed my lack of scriptural support because I said there was a Biblical basis for casting someone out of a fellowship of believers. He has harped on that point, so I provided those references for his consideration. Take Paul's admonition in Titus for example: "Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned." (Titus 3: 10) And yes, I am fully aware that you need to take these verses in context which is the very thing I said to do.

The point is, that putting someone out of the fellowship is Biblical, when it is done in the manner Jesus prescribed. I doubt though that you personally would see TFI as doing this with sound judgement. I am not so sure.

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NathanA
The point is, that putting someone out of the fellowship is Biblical, when it is done in the manner Jesus prescribed.

Actually, this discussion has gotten kind of off-track. I acknowledge that there is a Biblically sound way for churches to exercise discipline, but that does not apply to the situation with Trinity as it applies to Wendy and me. We were not excommunicated, we simply chose to leave. Zeuszor can speak for himself concerning his own circumstances.

Shunning is a practice distinct from healthy church discipline. When properly done, church discipline is for the good of the person being disciplined. Shunning, OTOH, is all about a group of people drawing the drawbridge up from the castle moat so that they can protect themselves and remain insular. It is of a wholly different spirit than proper discipline, and it is an indicator that a group is cultic.

I opened this thread by pointing out the de facto shunning practices of Trinity Foundation. It is not the only abusive thing that they do—not by a long shot—but it goes to character. It shows that Trinity manifests a spirit of domination and control. Trinity is much more about enslaving people than “setting the captives free.”

Nathan, Nathan, Nathan...I have no patience for this anymore. My spirit grieves for you. Your ineptitude in dividing the Word frustrates me greatly, as does your bullheaded defense of an indefensible position. I am all about engaging in lively discussion and learning and growing together. But I have made a mistake in engaging in any kind of debate with you. It seems like all you want to do here on this board is disagree with whetever anybody says and argue a position in which you are clearly out of your league, Scripturally and experientially. If all you want to do is argue senselessly and have no desire to be taught and to learn something, then I say adios. No more profane and vain babblings for me; they will increase unto more ungodliness. I was where you are too, up until a few months ago; read my first postings and you'll see that I too was caught up in trying to defend these people, all the while living right next door to them. But it got to a point where I realized that in all truth some of TFI's practices are indefensible. I had the guts to search for the truth; do you? Good night, and good luck.

I have been following this thread since it started and have found it quite fascinating. I am familiar with Trinity Foundation and Ole Anthony and thus, was quite alarmed by the postings. I read the Dallas Observer article, The Cult of Ole, and am still trying to wrap my mind around my previous perspective on Trinity Foundation. I have yet to read the book on the Trinity Foundation that people have referred to on this message board. Can anyone tell me what the title is?

Thanks.

My wife wrote it, and the title is I[i:f7af170caa] Can't Hear God Anymore: Life in a Dallas Cult[/i:f7af170caa]. You can order it directly from us at www.dallascult.com

I do not mean to take the thread off topic Doug. I don't know the ins and outs of how TFI disiplines. I know that you would say it is not disipline, but abuse.

I understand what it is like to talk to frustrating and ignorant people, ie. I have talked with members of the church of scientology who refuse to entertain new possibilites.(in my view) Know that is part of my way of searching, by challenging you, and testing you. I have had more doubts about TFI than you may be aware, overall I wondered if my doubts would cause me to withdraw my support.

I admitt my ignorance in never visiting the place, and not having read your wife's book. All I have done is discussed it with you and I have talked to a few individuals at TFI. I know that you don't see eye to eye.

The attitude of a few individuals at TFI appears that they would like to be reconciled with you Doug. No one appears bitter towards you from what I can tell.(from my 'distant perch' as you say)

As it is, I have little left to test unless I read the book or visit TFI myself, thankyou for bearing with me and I hope the truth is heard.

Nathan, and all others reading this: you have no idea what kind of emotional and mental turmoil that I have been through since leaving TFI. Not to mention the fact of the turmoil I went through shortly before arriving at TFI. I'd just a few months before been in Iraq. The decision I made to leave left me essentially homeless; however, I am blessed enough to have good friends in the Gulf Coast area who applauded my decision to leave and are gracious enough to let me stay here until I get my act together and figure out what I am going to do next. I have been quite stressed out trying to figure out what I am going to do and where I am going to go next and it's disrupted my peace and rest in Him. It's taken me off of the mercy seat. I have been very emotionally strung out and I don't know what I am going to do. Depression is setting in and rearing its ugly head. I have fought this monster before and nearly lost, and but for God's grace I would have. That's why I wanted to live in community in the first place. I't's more like I NEEDED to live in community. And I still do. I cannot live alone. That would be dangerous for me. I went to TFI not because I was broke or homeless or anything but because I wanted to live in a Christian community and help fight the greedy televangelists. I have always admired TFI's work in investigating these guys, and still do. Somebody in the Church needs to do it, in my opinion. Too bad that Ole has made a life and career out of making himself look and feel good by making others look bad. When I got to the point of realization where I saw that Ole was just as slick and phony as Benny Hinn (I have a particular distaste for Hinn) it was incredibly disillusioning, and I stuggled with the cognitive dissonance that manifested after Wendy's book and Glenna's article pulled the curtain back. I wanted to believe in the illusion so bad...but my internal honesty and integrity prevented me from beliving in a lie.
So now I am homeless (OK, not strictly speaking, I do have a roof over my head and am living with wonderful people) and am about out of options in terms of what I'm going to do next. Do I regret leaving TFI? No. Do I regret being a part of it in the first place? No. My life has been full of emotional ups and downs in the last couple of months since I left and I have dealt with extermely dangerous, cultish, just downright sick groups since leaving the likes of which I can't get into here. I am about emotionally stretched thin. So I know I have come off as angry and impatient on the board, and I ask for your forgiveness Nathan. I don't recant the content of what I said, but the spirit in which I said it. It's been a good lesson in not being caught up with the spirit of Ahimaaz. Look it up. Today I have been dealing with my blood family and I always come away from dealing with them feeling worthless. Why do I even try with those people? Damn. Thanks for bearing with me here. I don't know what else to do but put this down in some kind of writing, and the board seemed like a good idea.

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NathanA
I do not mean to take the thread off topic Doug. I don't know the ins and outs of how TFI disiplines. I know that you would say it is not disipline, but abuse.

I understand what it is like to talk to frustrating and ignorant people, ie. I have talked with members of the church of scientology who refuse to entertain new possibilites.(in my view) Know that is part of my way of searching, by challenging you, and testing you. I have had more doubts about TFI than you may be aware, overall I wondered if my doubts would cause me to withdraw my support.

I admitt my ignorance in never visiting the place, and not having read your wife's book. All I have done is discussed it with you and I have talked to a few individuals at TFI. I know that you don't see eye to eye.

The attitude of a few individuals at TFI appears that they would like to be reconciled with you Doug. No one appears bitter towards you from what I can tell.(from my 'distant perch' as you say)

As it is, I have little left to test unless I read the book or visit TFI myself, thankyou for bearing with me and I hope the truth is heard.

I think I understand where you are coming from, Nathan, and I hope I have not been too testy with you. You have every right to question me and anyone else who is making claims about something. Perhaps I have been overly sensitive, but you must remember, this is my life. It cost me a great deal spiritually to be involved with Trinity for so long, and it cost me much emotionally to leave. This is not some intellectual game to me.

I am glad to hear that nobody there is bitter toward me. It would be absurd if they were, because I have not done anything to them. They were the ones who said and did the damaging and hurtful things toward Wendy and me—not the other way around. Now, they present themselves to you and others as though they are willing to be reconciled, and yet they do not expend any effort toward bringing that about. Ergo, they are liars and hypocrites. Not necessarily every individual at Trinity, because I think there are some good people there who are seeking to follow Christ, but I do particularly fault the leadership.

I suppose they could say that we have harmed them in some way by writing the book, but that all took place years after we left. If they had any real interest in reconciliation there was plenty of time to say or do something before Wendy even had the idea to write the book. And, as I keep pointing out, we are not the only former members left licking our wounds in the wake of our involvement at Trinity. There are dozens of people out there that Trinity needs to ask for forgiveness if they are interested in cleaning their slate.

I believe that there is a spirit of control at Trinity that is antithetical to nurturing its members in their spiritual growth. The pattern for a church is laid out in the Scriptures in Ephesians 4:11-15 (RSV):

11: And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,
12: to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
13: until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ;
14: so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles.
15: Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ…

Unfortunately, this is not what is happening at Trinity Foundation. People are not encouraged to truly “grow up in Christ.” Instead, Ole consistently infantilizes everyone in such a way as to actually impede their spiritual growth. It is just an unhealthy spirit that pervades the place, and I am grateful to God that I am out of there.

This will be my last post. I consider what Brian is doing (zues.) flaming. He has out and out called people - stupid, blasphemous and un-christian. If the moderators are reading this, I would think that his line of posting are nothing but attacks on the characters of people that are honestly trying to respond in an adult-like manner.

Brian...you are very hurtful in your attacks. I have been nothing but kind to you yet you call me names and are extremely foul. I am a Christian and I have been through more in my life that you so your 'sad' story doesn't sway me. I feel sorry for you and wish you nothing but the best and truly hope you get the help you need.

I don't pore over the scriptures since most of my childhood I was inundated with the scriptures from many different types of relegions. I see God when I look at my severely ill and dying daughter and know that she is taken care of. I am at peace and I can call myself a Believer.

Take care and PLEASE seek help.