Tilton’s lawyers did not uncover this stuff because they did not spend the time to go through the record as carefully as did Wendy and Glenna.

I am a bit confused why you have singled out the question of whether Ole was a delegate to the Republican convention or just an honorary sergeant-at-arms to focus on. In isolation, I do not see it as being a huge issue, except that it is part of a larger theme of exaggerating his story and playing fast-and-loose with the truth. However, if you look at the big picture, things start to fit together. From his false claims of what he was like as a 16-year-old up until his recent denials that he knew Wendy, Ole has shown himself to be honesty-challenged. However, in most of the tales he weaves there is a kernel of truth (the “burning the cross” story being a possible exception to that), so that it is hard to pin him down and be sure you have the “smoking gun.” Nevertheless, if you take all of the elements of Ole’s life story about which there is some doubt or question and put them together, you start to see a pattern. Sure, on some of the points being raised there is a way to give Ole the benefit of the doubt, and if there were only one or two issues in play that would probably be the right thing to do. However, there is [i:6683d06a8d]so[/i:6683d06a8d] much confusion surrounding [i:6683d06a8d]so[/i:6683d06a8d] much of his history, you have to ask yourself, “What is the common denominator in all of these stories?”

C’mon, Nathan, connect the dots. If you will try to look at the picture as a whole, I think you will begin to see what we are saying.

3Jo 1:9 I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to have the preeminence among them, does not receive us.

3Jo 1:10 Therefore, if I come, I will call to mind his deeds which he does, prating against us with malicious words. And not content with that, he himself does not receive the brethren, and forbids those who wish to, putting them out of the church.

3Jo 1:11 Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. He who does good is of God, but he who does evil has not seen God.

Consider Diotrephes...

Nathan, you're going to see what you want to see, and hear what you want to hear. More power to ya. My exhortation to you is: don't let Ole Anthony, Gary B., or anybody else for that matter, do your thinking for you or define your walk for you. Ole does not have powers of Scriptural interpretion beyond the ones that you or anybody else can have, if you truly take on the Mind of Christ. To believe that he does know something that you can't know, or can see something that you can't see, is to believe a lie. God gave you a brain in order to use it and consider the evidence and testimonies that the Duncans, Glenna Whiltley, and myself have presented and I'll (we'll) be praying for you, brother. It's your decision as to whether you'll continue to place your faith in this modern-day Diotrephes, or whether you'll place your faith in Jesus Christ.

You've got more at stake here than I do Doug. After spending the amount of time you did at Trinity and leaving on the terms you did, I suspect you have to justify your actions by making such a case. I have been as objective as I have been able, I have laid it on the line and confessed openly my doubts as well as my skepticism. I mentioned the delegate thing because it is the most verifiable point I have seen. One thing that has stood out to me more than anything Doug, and I find it revealing. Is that Trinity and its members are open to and even embrace being questioned. I have found you on the other hand to not take as kindly to testing. That in itself says something. I don't have any reason to defend Trinity, I would be happy in a sense just to know the truth even if it is as bad as you say it is. My verdict overall is that your case is weak.

From what I understand of you Brian, you got scared when you read the Observer article and Wendy's book. The safest thing for you to do has been to leave by your own understanding. You've called them a cult and you still expect them to be your friends. I don't know all the facts and details as to why you've been shunned, but I know they walk by what they believe is faith. Search for God where you will, but I find no cause to say that God is not working through Trinity Foundation and it's members.

I believe that if or when an objective cult authority examines Trinity, they will not find sufficient criteria to name them a cult. Let them be put to the test. Is there serious psychological damage being done to those who go there? The good outweighs the bad by a long shot. All you've got so far are former upset members Doug, and one reporter. And you may have done damage to those who otherwise would have benefited from the kindness of those at Trinity.

And by the way Brian, I don't place my faith in Ole or Gary or anybody else. I don't let them think for me, I've questioned them just the same as I've questioned you guys.

[i:70efd12e0e]You've got more at stake here than I do Doug. After spending the amount of time you did at Trinity and leaving on the terms you did, I suspect you have to justify your actions by making such a case. I have been as objective as I have been able, I have laid it on the line and confessed openly my doubts as well as my skepticism. I mentioned the delegate thing because it is the most verifiable point I have seen. One thing that has stood out to me more than anything Doug, and I find it revealing. Is that Trinity and its members are open to and even embrace being questioned. I have found you on the other hand to not take as kindly to testing. That in itself says something. I don't have any reason to defend Trinity, I would be happy in a sense just to know the truth even if it is as bad as you say it is. My verdict overall is that your case is weak.[/i:70efd12e0e]

I do have more at stake here, as you say. But how do I know you are anything more than just a shill for Trinity? You say I am testier than they are, but how can anyone know that? I am the only one out here in an open forum carrying on this discussion. All of your talks with Trinity take place out of the public eye.

I[i:70efd12e0e] believe that if or when an objective cult authority examines Trinity, they will not find sufficient criteria to name them a cult. Let them be put to the test. Is there serious psychological damage being done to those who go there? The good outweighs the bad by a long shot. All you've got so far are former upset members Doug, and one reporter. And you may have done damage to those who otherwise would have benefited from the kindness of those at Trinity.[/i:70efd12e0e]

The following cult experts have examined the evidence and pronounced Trinity a cult or cult-like, based on their reading of my wife's book:

"This book provides a fascinating and compelling narrative of one woman's journey through religious terrain that few (thankfully) have experienced. It is at times both insightful and
frightening. The author writes with clarity and conviction. Her underlying message is one of warning: not all religion is benign."
Ronald Enroth, Ph.D., Professor of Sociology, Westmont College,
Author of [i:70efd12e0e]Churches That Abuse; Recovery from Churches That Abuse[/i:70efd12e0e]


"I Can’t Hear God Anymore is an extremely well-written, sensitive and insightful accounting of the author’s experience in an abusive religious group. Her revealing chapter on the doctrinal underpinnings that were used to justify such spiritual and psychological abuse will be helpful to former members of other religious groups. Her courageous journey through understanding thought reform techniques and the recovery process serves as an encouragement to ex-members who are struggling to get their identity and life back. I highly recommend this book to recovering former cult members and their families."
Carol Giambalvo, President of reFOCUS
(a support and referral network for former members of abusive groups, www.refocus.org )
Author of [i:70efd12e0e]Exit Counseling: Family Interventions for Cult-Affected Loved Ones[/i:70efd12e0e]
Co-editor of [i:70efd12e0e]Critical Perspectives on the International Churches of Christ[/i:70efd12e0e]
Director of ICSA's Recovery Programs
(International Cultic Studies Association, formerly American Family Foundation www.csj.org)


A Nightmare on Columbia Revealed, July 18, 2006

'Ms. Duncan’s first person account of her seven year experience as a member of The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas, an outwardly reputable Christian organization set up to model Christian living at its best, ranks along side of Stephen Hassan’s Combatting Cult Mind Control and other first person cult narratives. For years I have searched for a book that could clarify from a Christian perspective both the scripture twisting and the theological distortions that quasi Christian cults inflict on their members. This book fits such a niche. When I Can’t Hear God Anymore arrived in the mail I picked it up curiously, intending to look it over. It proved to be a page turner, and I finished it the day it arrived. I couldn’t put it down.
Duncan has done her homework. She has done a difficult thing: made the process by which she was seduced into membership into a highly authoritarian group with bizarre personal reinterpretations of scripture seem both understandable and reasonable. She addresses her particular vulnerabilities which blinded her to warning signs that all was not well in this group. She spells out the promise that fired her imagination (after a couple of divorces, causing her to be treated as an outsider in her own Christian denomination ), she welcomed input from other and supposedly wiser people in choosing a next partner). She also balances the positives of group life (no more loneliness, a ready made social system, a sense of community) with the negatives. What is different about this book is the apparent ‘evangelical mainstreamness’ of the Trinity Foundation.
Duncan was no naive, idealistic teenager. She was adult, in her forties, with a Master’s degree from a seminary and a stable job. She knew about cults. She checked out the group she was considering in several ways before joining. But in spite of her precautions, she still fell in and stayed in seven years.
She writes in a clear, straightforward manner. She organizes her material logically, including the theological distortions of her group leader, Ole Anthony. Superficially, the language and doctrine of her leader would be recognizable to any evangelical, although idiosyncratic. But the idiosyncrasies can be rationalized by the intelligence and originality of its leader. But also as in most cults, there was a discrepancy between the doctrine and the behaviors of the group. She has organized her material into chapters about her process of gradually being drawn into the group, the leader, his theology including both orthodoxy and distortions, the ways the leader used scripture to systematically break down members’ egos, and her exiting the group and the multiple metastases within her system of the pernicious doctrinal distortions, some of which took years to erase. Her recovery, interestingly, was done with a minimum of professional help. She details how she did that. To someone unfamiliar with mainstream Christianity, the great detail that she uses to describe the theological distortions and scripture twisting that are part of the working credos of the Trinity Foundation may seem drawn out and overdone; but for me, it’s the kind of detail I have felt some of the testimonials of other pseudo Christian group former members have glossed over or left out.

I would recommend this book without reservation to anyone who is interested in understanding why the Christian church has always relied on scripture and the church through the ages for orthodoxy. Families, former high authority group members, pastors, students, could all benefit."
Reviewed by Lois V. Svoboda, M.D., L.M.F.T., Editorial Board, [i:70efd12e0e]Cultic Studies Review[/i:70efd12e0e]

"Wendy Duncan shares her pain and disillusionment in her story, which should awaken all of us to the reality of spiritual abuse. I highly recommend this book to pastors, counselors, family members, as well as those entrapped by the many cultic and abusive groups in our land."
The Rev. Raymond C. Ball, TSSF, D. Min., CPC, Episcopal priest, teacher, and counselor

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NathanA
And by the way Brian, I don't place my faith in Ole or Gary or anybody else. I don't let them think for me, I've questioned them just the same as I've questioned you guys.

Perhaps you've let them do the thinking for you more than you realize, friend. Have you ever even met these people in person? Have you ever been verbally lambasted and publicly humiliated by Ole or Harry? Have you ever spend any substantial time around these people? Have you ever sat through any of Ole's depressing 7:30 A.M. "Bible studies" (which are less Bible studies and more about listening to Ole ramble his way through Ecclisiastes and Job EVERY DAY)? Have you ever even been to the block? If your answer to the above questions is "no", then my friend YOU JUST SIMPLY DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
Hey, when I first heard about Wendy's book during a Sunday night Seder, the revelation that I was involved with a cult sounded absurd, laughable. So I know where you're coming from. But I read the book (despite Pete's exhortations not to) and soon after reading it met with the Duncans in person. The fact that I was associating with the Duncans was highly frowned upon, too. So I thought to myself, "Well, if I find myself being shunned for making friends with these folks, there's my proof that this REALLY IS a cult." Sure enough, within a couple of weeks, Ole (through John B.) began putting the squeeze on me to move out of my room above the Lair, using BS excuses that I have since found to be (surprise!) lies. A short period of time, maybe a week or so, before I was to move the Observer piece came out and that was the last straw. You're damn right it all scared me and I thank God for sending the Duncans into my life.
I'm not putting you down, Nathan. I hope that we can share some fellowship (in the present circumstance, e-fellowship :wink: ) Doug seems a lot more soft-spoken and understated in dealing with you than I have the patience for right now in this season of my life. I am not putting you down, brother. It's only that you sound maddeningly naive.

Another thing: at the time, on one day I'd ask Ole about Wendy and he'd say he didn't even remember her. Another day, I'd ask him again and he'd remember her then all right, and would attack her character and her motivations for being a part of TFI in the first place. Never anything nice to say about her. One day he'd remember her, the next he wouldn't. One day he'd say that Rick Ross was his good buddy, the next day he'd say they'd never met. One day he'd be telling stories about his old drinking buddy Marjoe Gortner (Google it) and the nect day he'd be "Marjoe who?" And on and on. This guy is so used to telling lies and never being called on it that he can't keep track of all the lies he's told!

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NathanA
All you've got so far are former upset members Doug, and one reporter.

But it is practically [i:4deb7f0a81]all[/i:4deb7f0a81] of the former members--dozens of people--that feel like Trinity was damaging to them. And, this includes people like Larry & Pam Ferguson, who were elders/Bible study teachers in the group, and Powell Holloway, who worked full time for the foundation and was with Ole when he supposedly discovered the prayer requests. Wendy is just the person who held the pen to tell the story for the former members.

And the "one reporter" happens to be the only journalist who took the time to actually investigate Ole's claims. The only real investigative piece about Trinity Foundation is the one that Glenna did. All of the other people who have written about Trinity have just come and talked to Ole and reported what he said.

Nathan,
I am a disgruntled ex-member. I was there for six years total. I know Doug and Wendy are telling the truth (though I could never convince you ) and unless you are a member I can't for the life of me understand why you so vehemently protect Ole. Maybe it is because of the morning Bible studies (you know they are edited by Harry). Doug has much more patience for your, in my opinion, weak arguments than is humanly possible. He has put himself on the line time after time while at the same time no one from TF has had the brass ones to answer him in public here. What can be said to someone who has his mind made up? I would have more respect for your defense of Ole if you were a member. If you ask me, and you didn't I would suggest you find a Church with a non charismatic leader and lay your life down for your brothers and sisters there wherever you live rather than being a part of Ole's e-church. I was there when Ole orchestrated A fire walk which resulted in severe burns to several members. If that alone is not enough to chase you away from TF I don't know what is. Even they don't deny this episode. Nathan It's your life just don't say you weren't warned.
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