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cherenuff1
I understand about the hurt feelings and why they would feel hurt, betrayed, etc. Remember...I was asked to leave and after finding the ex-members, I myself, wanted to think of Trinity as a cult. I, myself, put Ole as a cult leader. I mean, how DARE they ask me to leave when all I did was pretend to be pregnant and told others that I had an abortion.The only difference is that after moving to Kansas and I wasn't around the EX-members, I lost my hate, anger, hurt and shame.

Why talk and dwell about things that have happened YEARS ago. The difference now between me and some others that left is that I chose to let go of my anger. I don't direct this at you since it seems that you are indeed happy and have found a spiritual peace. I like you guys...I've always liked you guys. I don't like your views on things but then again, that would make life boring if everyone agreed. LOl

Not sure you can extrapolate your experience to everyone else's, though. People left for many other reasons besides the ones you left for. It is true that you deserved a consequence for lying, but not everyone who left had lied to the group. In at least one case I know of, it was because they discovered Ole had lied to them. You may have had good reasons to return and ask for forgiveness from everyone at Trinity, but there are cases where the asking for amends needs to run in the other direction.

Wendy and I have, indeed, found a good spiritual home that suits us well. We are at peace, and for what it is worth, I have always liked you, too. But if we can't talk about Trinity, politics, sex, or football, what's left?

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counselor47

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cherenuff1
I understand about the hurt feelings and why they would feel hurt, betrayed, etc. Remember...I was asked to leave and after finding the ex-members, I myself, wanted to think of Trinity as a cult. I, myself, put Ole as a cult leader. I mean, how DARE they ask me to leave when all I did was pretend to be pregnant and told others that I had an abortion.The only difference is that after moving to Kansas and I wasn't around the EX-members, I lost my hate, anger, hurt and shame.

Why talk and dwell about things that have happened YEARS ago. The difference now between me and some others that left is that I chose to let go of my anger. I don't direct this at you since it seems that you are indeed happy and have found a spiritual peace. I like you guys...I've always liked you guys. I don't like your views on things but then again, that would make life boring if everyone agreed. LOl

Not sure you can extrapolate your experience to everyone else's, though. People left for many other reasons besides the ones you left for. It is true that you deserved a consequence for lying, but not everyone who left had lied to the group. In at least one case I know of, it was because they discovered Ole had lied to them. You may have had good reasons to return and ask for forgiveness from everyone at Trinity, but there are cases where the asking for amends needs to run in the other direction.

Wendy and I have, indeed, found a good spiritual home that suits us well. We are at peace, and for what it is worth, I have always liked you, too. But if we can't talk about Trinity, politics, sex, or football, what's left?

ROFL...I never said anything about sex or football :wink: We can just take it one conversation at a time. Like...how are you guys doing. Where you go to church, how's work, home life. How is your Master's coming along. Marriage woes, Wendy and I can whine about our husbands but you and Mike can't :lol: . To me, there's a lot to catch up on. We have three kids now,trying to become a nurse and I'm a.. **gasp** Liberal. That might be fun, come to think of it.

You're right. If Ole hurt anyone, he should apologize, but I can't apologize for him and Trinity can't do that either. If I've hurt anyone, I would like the chance to say "I'm sorry." So...if anyone thinks I've wronged them...come and get it. It only lasts for awhile though since I'm rarely wrong.. :wink: If Ole hurt them I'd say: come to Bible Study, let him know how you feel, get it out and hang out with the rest of us. Who care's if he apologizes. Lord knows I would never had talked to my Mom again if I thought to wait for an apology. You yourself have never apologized to me either about things, yet...I don't care now. It's in the past. (Let's not discuss this here though..I'm sure the moderators are getting tired of this straying from cult topics.)

Send me a private message with your email on it and I will send you mine and we can do some of our personal catching up off of this forum. Your statement, "...come to Bible Study, let him know how you feel, get it out and hang out with the rest of us..." is just not going to work for some people. For one thing, for most of the former members that would not feel like a safe thing to do. For another, that minimizes how badly some people have been hurt.

As I said earlier in this thread, Wendy and I are among the [i:b2bf98e883]least[/i:b2bf98e883] angry of the former members. Everyone focuses on us because we spoke out, but we are not bitter. I would like nothing more than to find some way for everyone to be able to hold hands and sing Kum Ba Yah, but it is not going to happen if it has to be on Trinity's terms. Trinity needs to engage in some honest self-examination and try to understand the ways in which they may have been in the wrong at times. A little bit of practicing what they preach would be in order, here.

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counselor47
Send me a private message with your email on it and I will send you mine and we can do some of our personal catching up off of this forum. Your statement, "...come to Bible Study, let him know how you feel, get it out and hang out with the rest of us..." is just not going to work for some people. For one thing, for most of the former members that would not feel like a safe thing to do. For another, that minimizes how badly some people have been hurt.

As I said earlier in this thread, Wendy and I are among the [i:ec4d74fcdb]least[/i:ec4d74fcdb] angry of the former members. Everyone focuses on us because we spoke out, but we are not bitter. I would like nothing more than to find some way for everyone to be able to hold hands and sing Kum Ba Yah, but it is not going to happen if it has to be on Trinity's terms. Trinity needs to engage in some honest self-examination and try to understand the ways in which they may have been in the wrong at times. A little bit of practicing what they preach would be in order, here.

You may want to pm me. I haven't reached my quota of posts in order to pm anyone. Thanks!

You need only post once more in order to have your PM privledge. OK?

Some Warning Signs of Potentially Abusive Groups

Control-oriented style of leadership
Excessive authoritarianism
Lack of accountability of leadership
Individuality is perceived to be sinful and is ridiculed
Leadership is excessively esteemed
Group has an elitist, superior view of itself
Overemphasis on commitment and loyalty to the group
Use of intimidation or psychological manipulation

How many of these warning signs apply to Trinity Foundation? Think about it.

Again, I encourage you to read Wendy's book, I Can't Hear God Anymore: Life in a Dallas Cult. You can order it at www.dallascult.com

2Ti 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient,

2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

2Ti 2:26 And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

An exhortation to myself: this morning I was carried away by my passion for the Word and again was speaking according to my flesh. I do not back off from my position of strongly promoting spiritual discernment by means of a strong Scriptural backbone, but I do repent of coming on too strong and putting too fine of a point on it. I was not gentle, impatient, and a tad judgemental (but just a tad :wink: ) and Michelle I am sorry that I put a fine point on my argument and then started jabbing at people with it. That was wrong of me. But still I exhort you in Jesus' name: without a solid foundation in the Word, we are weak and spiritually impotent Christians. You say that a knowledge of the Scriptures has nothing to do with spiritual discernment and I VERY STRONGLY disagree. I say it has EVERYTHING to do with discernment. It has EVERYTHING to do with the true knowledge of God. I simply exhort all Christians to study the Word and think for yourselves. Scriptural illiteracy and the resulting lack of discernment is exactly why and how people like Ole (or the Crouches, or Hinn, or any of the false teachers in our midst) get away with what they do.

Here is a dandy little article that fits Ole to a T. There REALLY is nothing new under the sun.

[www.thefaithfulword.org]

Matthew 22:29

From Rick Ross:

[b:c5ae18adc7]Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader[/b:c5ae18adc7]

Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

The group/leader is always right.

The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.


[b:c5ae18adc7]Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader. [/b:c5ae18adc7]

Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.

Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".

Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.

Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.

Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.

A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.

Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.

Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.

Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

All of this is covered in my wife's book, [i:c5ae18adc7][b:c5ae18adc7]I Can't Hear God Anymore: Life in a Dallas Cult.[/b:c5ae18adc7][/i:c5ae18adc7]

Hbr 4:11 ¶ Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.


Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


Hbr 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things [are] naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.