He's right, Doug. Ole did so on Inside Edition. Ole's conversation with Hinn is not in the report, but he is clearly visible in the background as the interview is taking place.

Ole claimed he made attempts to contact Robert Tilton, W.V. Grant, and Larry Lea before helping ABC slam them in the original [i:c66ca5cc7c]PrimeTime Live[/i:c66ca5cc7c] investigative piece, but I never saw any evidence that he had actually done so.

As for Hinn, I don't know that sitting in the background during an interview really counts.

Hmm...yes, point taken.

If Ole is seen in the background of an interview with Benny Hinn, and is known as one of his most outspoken critics, it seems safe to take Ole at his word that he has indeed spoken with Benny. If you really want them to question themselves-which it seems they do in their Bible Studies-why didn't you take it before the whole church and the board of elders? It sounds from their end like your wife went ahead and wrote a book before you even seriously tried to deal with them about this stuff. I doubt it is because they can't be reasoned with.

I am sorry about situations like this Doug. I don't have any serious problems with Trinity so far. Believe me that certain members have told me things that I have not found pleasant. I am thankful for their challenges though. I can see why some would be angry with them. It seems damaging where you have gone by calling them a cult though. I can see where there are similarities to a cult. Ole is a very intense personality, and I have rarely(if never) heard him budge on an issue. You could say that means he is not accountable. I doubt he has such control over the group that he could not be voted out though. Actually, given his offensive speech, it is amazing he hasn't been voted out by now. One could also say that some of Ole's teachings about the anti-christ mind are used to break people down for his control. What he is saying is that you can't fix yourself or understand God by using your mind. Rather, as the scriptures say, you must "take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ." I agree with John Rutledge that after years of public scrutiny Trinity would have been recognized as an abusive cult by now. There are too many things that don't jive with what you are saying.

[i:6784fadd0f]If Ole is seen in the background of an interview with Benny Hinn, and is known as one of his most outspoken critics, it seems safe to take Ole at his word that he has indeed spoken with Benny.[/i:6784fadd0f]

I know Ole quite well, and I have ample reasons not to take him at his word—the latest being his mendacity in saying that he does not remember my wife. And, you are ignoring what I said about his claims to have contacted Tilton, Grant, and Lea before the PrimeTime Live investigation.

[i:6784fadd0f]If you really want them to question themselves-which it seems they do in their Bible Studies-why didn't you take it before the whole church and the board of elders?[/i:6784fadd0f]

They certainly do not question themselves seriously in their Bible studies. I was there, remember? As to why I would not want to set myself up as a clay pigeon in front of one of their Bible studies or meetings of the elders, you would probably have to read the book to get the history of the hot seats. Suffice it to say that I would not want to set myself up to be re-victimized. A former elder of Trinity Foundation who left a few years before I did, Larry Ferguson, did exactly what you are suggesting that Wendy and I should have done as he was leaving. They did not hear him, and all he got was a lot of abuse for his trouble. Having seen what happened to him, I did not want to put myself through the same thing.

[i:6784fadd0f]It sounds from their end like your wife went ahead and wrote a book before you even seriously tried to deal with them about this stuff. I doubt it is because they can't be reasoned with.[/i:6784fadd0f]

Again, a lot of this stuff is dealt with in the book. Sadly, it is the case that they are not open to being reasoned with—especially by the former members. I opened this whole thread by talking about how they shun former members. How can you reason with someone who is shunning you?

[i:6784fadd0f]I am sorry about situations like this Doug. I don't have any serious problems with Trinity so far.[/i:6784fadd0f]

Of course not, Nathan. They still see you as someone they can draw into the group.

[i:6784fadd0f]Believe me that certain members have told me things that I have not found pleasant. I am thankful for their challenges though.[/i:6784fadd0f]

Accountability is important. I have found, however, that there are people who can hold me accountable without abusing me in the process.

[i:6784fadd0f]I can see why some would be angry with them. It seems damaging where you have gone by calling them a cult though. I can see where there are similarities to a cult.[/i:6784fadd0f]

If you can see the similarities with just your casual involvement, do you not think it is possible that, with my years of being on the inside (elder, Levite, board member, Bible-study teacher, Ole’s roommate) I might have more insight into what is going on there than you do?

[i:6784fadd0f]Ole is a very intense personality, and I have rarely(if never) heard him budge on an issue. You could say that means he is not accountable. I doubt he has such control over the group that he could not be voted out though. Actually, given his offensive speech, it is amazing he hasn't been voted out by now. [/i:6784fadd0f]

I hardly need to respond to this point, because you have answered yourself. If Ole should have been voted out for his offensive speech, then why hasn’t that happened?

[i:6784fadd0f]One could also say that some of Ole's teachings about the anti-christ mind are used to break people down for his control. What he is saying is that you can't fix yourself or understand God by using your mind. Rather, as the scriptures say, you must "take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ."[/i:6784fadd0f]

Wendy and I are still believers and are still about “taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ.” It is a lifelong process. However, in our experience, the teaching that “your mind is the antichrist” did, indeed, set us up to be controlled. I no longer buy that your mind is the antichrist—at least, not in the way that Ole taught it. Of course, the Scriptures teach that the carnal mind is enmity with God, but it also tells us that we have the mind of Christ. I Cor 14:20 says, “Brethren, do not be children in your thinking; be babes in evil, but in thinking be mature.” (RSV)

[i:6784fadd0f]I agree with John Rutledge that after years of public scrutiny Trinity would have been recognized as an abusive cult by now. There are too many things that don't jive with what you are saying.[/i:6784fadd0f]

Trinity is recognized by many people to be an abusive cult. The most salient fact, in my view, is that essentially all of the former members of Trinity Foundation who spent any significant amount of time there—dozens of people, many of whom Wendy interviewed for her book—say that Trinity is a cult. I don’t understand how you and other Trinity apologists are so cavalier about that fact. These are people who sacrificed time, money, and effort in support of Trinity, and are now left only with their shattered idealism and wounded (and, in some cases, annihilated) faith. Trinity Foundation has much to answer for.

Say NathanA, how come they shunned me and won't reply to my emails or ANYTHING? You may want to ask them about that. Get back to me (us) on that. Go ahead, post their reply publicly. How come Pete personally called to tell me to leave him alone? "I'm in a cult. Why would you want to be my friend? Have a nice life." Of course, he'll/they'll tell you that I am mentally imbalanced and a pothead. Still suffering from some PTSD in part from my experiences in Iraq. It'll have something to do with MY character, their reasoning for having so little compassion (with the exception of J. Bojo, he's always been kind to me. Bent over backwards to help me out), certainly not reflective of the character of anybody in TFI. Oh, of course Ole is totally justified in his own mind! How come Ole warns certain people from associating with me and called me an "idiot"? It's somehow MY fault, right? But all that still doesn't answer my question: how come they cut me off? They won't even acknowledge that I said that I am sorry, much less express forgiveness. I can still be friends with certain individuals there even though they're in a cult and not in control of their individual minds or wills. If I am poking a stick throughthe bars of the little cages that Ole has them in, and they shut me out because I am trying to force them to confront these isssues, then that says more about the TFI mentality (circle the wagons, boys, the Injuns are coming!) than MY mentality.
But if TFI life was so full of pain and fear, you may ask, why didn't somebody speak up during the hot seat era and tell Ole that "this is wrong"? I laugh. Mine is the veteran's tolerant amusement at the novice's question. They'll do anything not to have to give up believing in Ole, that's why. That's just the way followers are. That's how it went. It's not hard to understand, and for one thing I wasn't there but five months, and for yet another thing the Hot Seats were long gone by the time I hit the scene. Besides, when abuse occurs so frequently, and my somebody you've invested so much trust in, , it never even crosses your mind to fight back, much less leave. You know how they train elephants? They raise them tied to a chain in the ground. Later, it's replaced by a rope and a stick. But the elephant never stops thinking it's a chain. That's why people like Pete are still there.

1)Zeuszor, I cannot speak for them regarding your case. Although I can suggest that if you really want to be someone's friend that you quit showing such duplicity. Don't expect to be on everybody's good side. It's what Jesus said, "He who's not with us, is against us." If you really want to be friends with Pete then you should publicly renounce what you've said about them being a cult, and then ask for their forgiveness. You can't just play nice with everybody. Shunning people is something Jesus says to do with the unrepentant and was a practice of the early church. That is not to shun one struggling with sin, but to shun one who is openly refusing to repent.

2)Counselor, you could say that a group of Benedictine monks is a cult. After all, they all walk around in robes and are part of a brotherhood that chants and all the rules are set for them. That's the kind of comparison you are using with Trinity. In my view you are comparing apples with oranges. Also, I flat out don't believe you when you call Ole a liar. I'd trust his word over yours.

Why can't I try and be on good terms with everybody involved? That's not duplicitous. I do not understand your logic. Now you are attacking my character, just like I anticipated you would. It's my responsibility to exhort my brother if I see him in error, and I expect my brothers and sisters to do the same for me. TFI is not my enemy, nor the Duncan's. I HAVE publicly repented of my greivous error in decieving them about my use of the herb, and all we're trying to do is to get them to at least admit some responsibility in the psychic damage done to the many people who have crossed Ole's path. Get him to at least admit that he can be at least a bit of an abusive, manipulative bully. Admitting your problem is the first step in overcoming it, right? I've admitted mine, and publicly. Now the ball is in the TFI court.

And you mis-quoted Jesus; I just realized that. Jesus NEVER said that. Obviously you don't know your Bible too well. Nice try though. What He said was:

Mar 9:38 ¶ And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

Mar 9:39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

Mar 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

Jesus said, in other words, "If you're not against me, you're with me." I am not [i:8d606398d9]against [/i:8d606398d9] TFI or anybody personally, and we're all working for the same kingdom here. I have no enemies. All I am asking them to do is take a look at themselves and try and recieve some correction. That's it. These would be good first steps.

Here is a link to Mark 9:40 in a variety of translations. Just to put a fine point on it.

[www.blueletterbible.org]