He has a point, Nathan.

If I were acting as a middle man Brian, I would state here publicly the case TFI has against you. Feel fortunate that I have refrained from that, and go ask them the questions yourself. I do not want to be accused of twisting information. If you are so sincerely concerned about these issues, you will show the courage to confront TFI yourself and discuss those things with them. I find them to be more reasonable and open than you or Doug have said. Phone Pete and talk to him. Your real problem is with them and not me. So give it a rest.

NathanA,
I like the NathanA who is seeking the truth better than the NathanA that is defending a group too afraid to defend themselves. Don't you? Which is the real NathanA?
cultaware

You will have to judge who the real NathanA is.

Please tell us your three least favorite things about the Trinity Foundation and it's leader, Ole Anthony?

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Please tell us your three least favorite things about the Trinity Foundation and it's leader, Ole Anthony?

That is not really my business here at this point. I will confront Ole about the issues I have before I share them here in public with you. I am only here to discover the truth, and if I have something I feel is valuable to say, then I will.

If you had courteously read that this was my response to this question at the beginning of this page, you would not repeatedly ask the same questions. Unless you mistakenly did not read what I said at the beginning, it would seem you are deliberately trying to instigate me. Please stop asking me questions after i have already answered you. Thankyou.

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NathanA

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Please tell us your three least favorite things about the Trinity Foundation and it's leader, Ole Anthony?

That is not really my business here at this point. I will confront Ole about the issues I have before I share them here in public with you. I am only here to discover the truth, and if I have something I feel is valuable to say, then I will.

If you had courteously read that this was my response to this question at the beginning of this page, you would not repeatedly ask the same questions. Unless you mistakenly did not read what I said at the beginning, it would seem you are deliberately trying to instigate me. Please stop asking me questions after i have already answered you. Thankyou.

So what [i:26f72bcf36]is[/i:26f72bcf36] your business here, other than to annoy and insult us? What are bringing to the table? What do you offer us except hearsay and obstinance? Are you trying to act as their apologist? What [i:26f72bcf36]is[/i:26f72bcf36] your business here?

What would it take to satisfy you, Nathan?

The purpose my asking this question of you would be to see if you're still using your critical thinking skills. It's in your interests to be able to demonstrate the use of those, and for you to allow that. Now please, will you answer my question? You know them so well, so much better than the rest of us. Why are you demonstrating such evasiveness?

Nathan,

I tend to agree with Cultaware. You are a bit of an enigma. There are rare moments when you seem like an honest seeker of the truth, but more often you seem to be shilling for Trinity. It may be that when you are questioning us you are playing devil's advocate, and that your approach to Trinity is just as adversarial as the one you use with us, but the things you say about your conversations with Trinity seem to belie this.

I do not know where this conversation can go from here. I think we have made a pretty good case that there are some very serious problems at Trinity Foundation. I believe there is enough information on the table to qualify as informed consent for anyone who chooses to continue their involvement with Trinity. Wendy and I have done what we set out to do, which is to tell our story in the most genuine and honest way we could. Trinity's response to it has served to validate all that we have said. It is my hope that Trinity will, indeed, take an honest look at themselves at some point. It just appears they are not ready to do so just yet.

If anyone at Trinity has honest concerns about anything in the book they are welcome to email me. I have never cut off conversation with them in the way that they have with me. As for you, Nathan, I truly hope you are able to find the things you are searching for. However, if what you are searching for is an honest community of true believers who are trying to live out the call of the Gospel, you can probably do better than Trinity Foundation.

[b:c99ec2068b]Looking in the Mirror[/b:c99ec2068b]

To me this is about seeing something for what it is. I have read the book, I have talked with you here extensively, and I have talked with a few of the leaders at TFI. I have read all the information I can find about Ole Anthony and the Trinity Foundation. These matters are not easy to judge. In the end though I have to trust God for discernment in this. I say what my feeling is on a subject, and I see if you can give a reply that answers to that. I do the same with TFI. I have seen kernels of truth in what you have said, and I have seen it in what they have said. I have prayed that I would be impartial, and be willing to dump everything I have esteemed TFI to be. I have been to the point where I thought I would have to forget TFI because they were really doing some harmful things. In short, I believe they are nothing. I have though come to believe that there is a spiritual mystery which has been at work in TFI's members and I believe that selfish flesh does not take kindly to it. It is the spirit of Christ. That is why I am very careful about not joining in this supposed call to accountability for TFI(which at times seems more like an attack) that is, without at least possessing true understanding.

There may well be some points that you are exactly right in calling them to repentence over Doug. I think they ought to hear those things.(I believe it is actually possible they would hear you) I just think Jackie Anon is right in saying that this is a private matter that you took way too publicly without making your very best efforts to talk with them about first. You basically came out of the blue with this book. I do not believe that this should have been the public affair that you have turned it into. There are other people affected by this that cannot even be mentioned here for their protection. This is not a book that should have been written. This is not a discussion that should have taken place. There are people in Trinity who have been deeply kind to you, who have loved you, who have carried your burdens, who have been your close friends. I can say that they still love you. Why has there not been a public response? It is because they believe that if you could still be reconciled,1) it isn't something that is likely to happen as a public feud, 2)there are other people who need to be protected from the public light whose information is involved in discussing these things, 3)the guilty may not be subjected to public embarassment over it. This is grace, rather than failure to acknowledge they have problems. But here you have disregarded that because you refuse to face your own faults, and are not brave enough to sit down face to face and admitt those faults, while humbly pointing out that they have faults too. It is my conviction at this point that a few of you here need to take a very serious and honest look at yourselves, because you are casting stones without acknowledging that you are guilty of the very same sins.

Nathan

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To me this is about seeing something for what it is.

An endeavor at which you are failing.

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I have though come to believe that there is a spiritual mystery which has been at work in TFI's members and I believe that selfish flesh does not take kindly to it. It is the spirit of Christ.

That is exactly the line that any cult would use about its former members. “Those poor people just couldn’t stand the truth.” Baloney! Trinity (using you as their water carrier) is just making excuses for abusing people in the name of God.

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That is why I am very careful about not joining in this supposed call to accountability for TFI(which at times seems more like an attack) that is, without at least possessing true understanding.

And yet, without possessing true understanding, you join in Trinity’s attack on us by repeating the lies, half-truths, and innuendo they whisper in your ear.

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There may well be some points that you are exactly right in calling them to repentence over Doug. I think they ought to hear those things.(I believe it is actually possible they would hear you)

They have Moses and the Scriptures, let them hear them. Let them read Wendy’s book with some honesty and true vulnerability.

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I just think Jackie Anon is right in saying that this is a private matter that you took way too publicly without making your very best efforts to talk with them about first.

Absolutely not true, and if they have told you otherwise they are lying. I have tried numerous times over the last few years to dialogue with John or Gary via email, with mixed results at best. Since leaving I have many efforts to initiate conversations with them, but they were not interested. And, what about the dozens of other former members, many of whom—like Boanerges—are hurting far more than we are. They are only interested in reconciling with [i:3c3ccea5d3]us[/i:3c3ccea5d3] because they are worried about their image. It is all a ploy to get us to pull the book off the market or to recant some of what we have said. The former members who can't hurt them they don't care about.

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You basically came out of the blue with this book. I do not believe that this should have been the public affair that you have turned it into.

Again, this would not have been out of the blue if they had engaged at all in the dialogue I have been trying to have with them for five years.

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There are other people affected by this that cannot even be mentioned here for their protection. This is not a book that should have been written. This is not a discussion that should have taken place. There are people in Trinity who have been deeply kind to you, who have loved you, who have carried your burdens, who have been your close friends. I can say that they still love you. Why has there not been a public response? It is because they believe that if you could still be reconciled,1) it isn't something that is likely to happen as a public feud, 2)there are other people who need to be protected from the public light whose information is involved in discussing these things, 3)the guilty may not be subjected to public embarassment over it.

I don’t even understand what this is. A veiled threat, or what? It is an example of you doing their dirty work for them and coming on this forum and spewing innuendo and spiritual poison. If there is something you want to say to clarify this and do not want to say it in public, please feel free to email me. But, what have I ever said to give you the impression that the people at Trinity Foundation were deeply kind to me? Oh, that’s right, I didn’t. You are just being their mouthpiece again.

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This is grace, rather than failure to acknowledge they have problems.

Grace is from our Lord through His son, Jesus Christ. It does not come from Trinity Foundation, in spite of what they seem to have convinced you of. Perhaps they have shown some discretion by not saying every nasty thing they could—and I applaud them for that—but I have shown the same discretion. I know where the bodies are buried, and they know that.

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But here you have disregarded that because you refuse to face your own faults, and are not brave enough to sit down face to face and admitt those faults, while humbly pointing out that they have faults too.

Since you and I have never met, how can you say I am neither brave nor humble? I have said some negative things about Trinity, but at least I know the people I am talking about. You do not know me from Adam. Once again, you are mindlessly repeating the things your handlers at Trinity feed you.

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It is my conviction at this point that a few of you here need to take a very serious and honest look at yourselves, because you are casting stones without acknowledging that you are guilty of the very same sins.

I am a sinner whose only hope of salvation is the grace of my Lord, Jesus Christ. I hope I have not presented myself as other than that.

If there is any truth to the notion that the folks at Trinity have some interest in reconciliation, I extend this invitation: Either John or Gary (Ole’s two chief lieutenants) are welcome to meet with me and a handful of former members at my house. All they have to do is contact me, and I will set it up. It could be the first step in the process, and one to which I am open. My bet is that they won’t show, but it could be the start of something that would be healing for everyone if they do.