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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: October 18, 2018 05:42AM

Also I found an article published in an independent British newspaper about the science behind hypnosis:

[britishhypnosisresearch.com]

Again, we see hypnosis compared to 'brain-washing' or thought control! The author does say that a type of indirect hypnosis can be used on people without their consent (they have no idea that they are being hypnotized) and that this is skill is dangerous, if it ends up in the wrong hands.

Pretty damn interesting.

I am sure this is what happened to me... I was hypnotized without my consent. In hindsight it is obvious to me. It's obvious to me now... but at the time, I don't know, I just thought that something seemed to be wrong with my head. But it wasn't an especially unpleasant feeling. Then Old Moo was there to tell me "that is just your mind". So you can see how easily it is to become confused!

Moo is very, very manipulative and cunning.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 18, 2018 09:12PM

Quote

indirect hypnosis can be used on people without their consent (they have no idea that they are being hypnotized) and that this is skill is dangerous, if it ends up in the wrong hands.

It has ended up in the wrong hands.

Sexual abuse and the abuse of hypnosis in the therapeutic relationship.

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
by E Hoencamp - ?1990 - ?Cited by 17 - ?Related articles
Int J Clin Exp Hypn. 1990 Oct;38(4):283-97. Sexual abuse and the abuse of hypnosis in the therapeutic relationship. Hoencamp E(1). Author information:
An Ohio lawyer hypnotized six female clients and then molested them ...

[www.washingtonpost.com]...
Nov 15, 2016 - He admitted to using his familiarity with and dexterity in hypnosis to control ... advantage of their trust and faith in you by sexually abusing them.
Hypnotist filmed himself sexually abused 19-year-old patient - Telegraph

[www.telegraph.co.uk]...

Jan 10, 2013 - A hypnotherapist filmed himself sexually abusing a 19-year-old patient when she was in a trance-like state. ... The victim told police that she had no idea of the abuse or the fact it was being filmed. ... He said that he had warned her that during the session she might feel sexually ...

PUA stands for Pick Up Artist.

Hypnotic Gaze - PUA Forum

www.pick-up-artist-forum.com › Related Areas & Misc › NLP & Hypnotic Seduction
Dec 5, 2011 - This is not a hypnotic pattern, this is a plain straight out induction. ... And when you drop a text or call, the moment she picks-up, you use those ...

Hypnosis Live - The Pickup Artist Hypnosis Bundle

[hypnosislive.com]

Would you like to have the confidence to pick up any woman, anywhere? To draw women to you like moths to a flame? Before becoming that perfect pickup artist ...
Missing: induction ?| ?Must include: ?induction
How to hypnotize hot girls for Pick Up Artists - PUA Lingo

www.pualingo.com/how-to-hypnotize-hot-girls-for-pick-up-artists/
May 7, 2011 - Written by Vince Lynch, Master Hypnotist There's huge misconceptions about hypnosis & NLP in the pick-up world. I constantly get emails ...

Missing: induction ?| ?Must include: ?induction



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2018 09:35PM by corboy.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: October 21, 2018 02:20PM

This all reminds me of an article I read recently in The Guardian, about women who allege they were raped at an ashram in Thailand.

[www.theguardian.com]

The women complained that the ashram was like a kind of cult, where male staff members preyed on unsuspecting women. The guru there - a guy named Narcis Tarcau, used some kind of brainwashing and coercion to allegedly sexually assault women.

The victims talked of being "under his spell" and that he broke down women psychologically over time, eroding their self-esteem.

When complaints were raised, they were dismissed as "gossip" and "being dramatic". Which is really interesting, because when I have raised concerns about Mooji online, my concerns have been dismissed using the exact same words! 'Gossip' and 'being dramatic'. It kind of makes me wonder...

It's like a manipulative form of victim-blaming.

When a group dismissed very serious allegations as 'gossip', I think it means something is up.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: yourinlove ()
Date: October 22, 2018 02:16AM

I think this Mooji satsang is very relevant for the discussion:

[www.youtube.com]

I know it is long, but I will try to sum it up, although it would be really good if you guys tried to watch some of it. It is a tea satsang, where Mooji reads some letters sent by followers, answering their questions and doubts.


- This tea satsang happened when the hurricane was hitting Florida last year, and many people asked Mooji to talk a little bit about it and send good thoughts and prayers, but he treated it with disdain. ("Pray for Florida? Already done that"). Besides this, one particular person from Florida sent him a letter with their concerns, worried if Mooji would answer it before the hurricane hit, this was received with jokes and laughters from Mooji and people on the audience.


- Now, I think this is the most relevent part of the satsang for this discussion. At approximately 1:46:55, Mooji picks a new letter sent by someone with concerns about his followers touching his feet and worshiping him, and how it all feels like a cult. They also wrote about how weird it sounds when everybody answers Mooji's questions in one voice. I won't put everything he/she wrote in the letter here, I highly recommend that you guys watch this part. Mooji sounds particularly angry when they mention the word cult (from 1:57:45). Shortly after, he compares himself to the great teachers of humanity, mentioning how Jesus and Buddha's gatherings were also called sects. Around 2:03:15, Krishnabai (That girl from the bhajans, who follows Mooji wherever he goes and is seen next to him in every video. I believe she has been living with him for 7 years or so.) speaks up to defend him.


- At 2:22:05, Omkara (who's been living in Monte Sahaja for more than 10 years) gets up on the stage and delivers a note to Mooji. I feel like he wasn't meant to read it aloud, but I'm not sure about that. Apparently she wanted to let him know that people were concerned about his jokes on the Florida hurricane. At 2:39:25 he talks about the issue again.


Basically the whole satsang had a weird vibes, and I had never seen Mooji act like he does in some parts of this satsang. I'm posting because I hope this is of value for you guys.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2018 02:20AM by yourinlove.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: October 22, 2018 04:49AM

Thank you yourinlove,

I will take a look at the video, it sounds really interesting. I am flat out busy at the moment but will try to watch some of it.

Yeah, Moo loves to compare himself to Christ and Buddha, so much for not having an ego! He bangs on about how godly he is all the time.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 22, 2018 07:01AM

Grab it before it is scrubbed.

Informative stuff tends to disappear.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: October 22, 2018 12:20PM

OK,
I managed to watch a few sections of the video in question.
Firstly, I watched the beginning 40 minutes or so. Right at the start, Moo seems to be loosely plagiarising The Lord's Prayer in his creepy voice-over, then he goes off speaking on a tangent, but it's basically all about God. It feels like I'm in church and the preacher is on drugs.

This is followed by a devotional song that goes on and on and on.... I nearly fell asleep because it was such a tedious song! It sounds like some kind of C-grade soap opera is beginning...

Finally, we have Moo appear on stage and read out a letter about the hurricane approaching Florida. He drones on and on in reply.... A lot of what he says is indecipherable rubbish- it's so hard to follow. It sounds like no one knows what is going on, but everyone in the audience gives rapt attention. Moo takes a lot of long, long meaningful pauses, just to get people tranced out, I guess.

I then watched the video at 1.46.55 - the part with a letter comparing the Moo movement to a cult or sect. Moo makes fun of the criticism, but he seems annoyed. He says he has heard it all before.

He then goes on to say that it is "just our minds" that want us to compare the Moo group to a cult, as our minds want to flee the truth. Moo says that if the teachings were not effective, then no-one would be afraid of them, and everyone would want to follow Moo, because "our minds" operate this way.

Does that then mean that Moo followers are "in their minds" or not? It's hard to say, it confusing and it doesn't get any clearer...

Moo's number one girlfriend or assistant, Krishnabai, makes matters worse by acting like a blissed-out zealot who has popped a few too many happy pills and tries to speak on behalf of Moo. She leads the audience in a scary chant that has the opposite of the desired effect.... It does indeed look like a cult.

I have to switch off the whole show because it's so hard to watch.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: SadGame ()
Date: October 24, 2018 12:07AM

the video posted by yourinlove I feel is illustrative of what is wrong with Moo's conduct as a teacher,
he lacks humility, cannot just say that he is sorry for saying something that hurt peoples feelings
example: in response to the note from Omkara about florida around 2:39.
Instead of just saying sorry he is only sorry "sort of"
he feels and says that he should be free to be himself freely and act sponteneously.
Ok fine, but not without being held accountable for his behaviour.
very dangerous attitude, as if only because of his true intensions,
assuming for a moment that they are,
his conduct is raised above all criticism.
That is just not so.
His position as a teacher comes with great responsibility, and some humility is sorely needed.

The way he frowns angrily in his response to the letter questioning the way he accepts people worshipping him (around 1:50) personnaly just shown in my opinion that he cannot hide his true feelings of disgust when people dare to question him. His mouth says words that finally admit that he finds the person to be courageous to raise the issue, but his whole conduct is so dismissive to the point of disgust that anyone with any insight can feel that these words are not completely congruent with his inner feeling. Plus he only got himself to acknowledge as much after he has framed the criticism as a admittance of spiritual inferiority.

Finally somewhere at the very end there is a woman telling him that she feels so protected like a puppy in his lion hands when he is being harsh with her, after which he tells of a story of a young bride who encounters a lion and forgets even her husband and is completely in the moment, which supposedly is a good thing. So by analogy it is a good thing that HE is the lion on all our paths. This is even the title of the video.
I feel this is over the top hypocritical, because earlier in response to the critique that people worship him he ridicules the person writing in because she signed something like 'black sheep'. He makes the audience laugh because it supposedly is so very ridiculous that someone is suggesting that his followers are sheep. i think this person also addresses him as 'beloved shepherd'.

Then finally he closes by presenting himself as the lion that we must embrace on our paths.

before this i never suspected foul intensions, but this is all very reminiscent of mind control techniques,
if not intentional, they might just be natural to his person.

I don't know which is worse.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2018 12:10AM by SadGame.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: October 24, 2018 04:40AM

I think you are spot on, SadGame.

It bothers me a lot that Moo is always ridiculing people in that subtle, passive-aggressive way he has. And he gets the audience to join in the ridicule, always leading them to laugh at anyone one is "out of line".

It's all about humiliation. It isn't spiritual at all! It's the opposite of spiritual. It's controlling people.

I absolutely believe that this tactic is deliberate on Moo's behalf. He has been on the guru circuit for about 10 years and he has worked out which methods of control are effective. He has to 'play to the crowd' and at the same time, dismiss his opponents.

I think he has copied Osho and others.

The only time Moo is truly pleased in that video is when a young man reads out a kind of devotional letter to him. In this letter, the devotee addresses Moo as though he is God. He even says "amen" at the end of the letter, as though it is a prayer and Moo is a deity. It is really disturbing.

Moo does not make any attempt to clear up the confusion between Moo himself, as a ordinary human being, and God.

The young man obviously believes that Moo is God and he is left to embrace his delusion. Moo is pleased. It's really sad, I feel so sorry for that young man. I think he would definitely be someone who would have a lot of mental problems... I mean, that's only my uneducated opinion. I would love to know where he is now.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: SadGame ()
Date: October 24, 2018 05:30PM

i am quite upset about all this, starting to consider that moo's intentions perhaps aren't all that pure and true.

i still feel that getting to know yourself beyond the body-mind is a valuable thing, at least it is for me. so i got this tool of self inquiry basically from moo and my whole attitude was very forgiving towards his use of what i felt were means to get people to the point where they could recognize themselves as pure awareness.

But now i feel that his approach is not purely aimed towards bringing people to a fundamental insight about themselves, but at the same time towards making people dependent upon him, and submissive towards him. Each time someone is submissive, he awards them plenty compliments and love,regardless of their degree of knowing/being themselves as awareness. On the other hand, people that are in sync with themselves but also with their power of discernment to criticize him are rebuffed and degraded each time, because of supoosed arrogance.

I wonder saharah since you feel that you were hypnotized without your consent, what was the suggestion towards which you were led in your hypnitized state?

i was led towards on the one hand to
a recognition of myself as awareness, which is why i am partly happy,
but also to a belief that personal relationships arent all that important in life
that as long as pure awareness is the primary object of attention all will be well
any engagement with society should be secondary to the realization of the Self
that moo himself is a perfectly realized being beyond faults,
that any amount of watching satsang is healthy and advisable
etc etc...

all of which are ideas that he conveniently never challenges, bacause they support the social arrangement with him firmly in the drivers seat, although they are each strongly antithetical to the core nondual insight of pure awareness.

My conclusion is therefore that he teaches advaita that has a potentially beneficial core , but he does so selfishly, allowing all any any false and illusary beliefs that idolize him and make people depend on his person and satsang offerings.

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