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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: i yam what i yam ()
Date: October 24, 2018 10:15PM

You've watched the satsangs - Now play the video game:!

[imgur.com]

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: yourinlove ()
Date: October 24, 2018 10:26PM

I don't know what Moo's intentions are, sometimes it seems like he is manipulating people willingly, and sometimes it seems like he is leading this total trainwreck without even realizing it.

For me, it started getting weird during the 2017 Rishikesh season, when the Invitation technique was created. He started repeating himself and saying the same things over and over in every satsang. Somehow, people were getting totally blissed out from the Invitation, so he must've thought that this method was IT, despite all of the people having troubles and coming down from the high worse than before. He just kept sharing the Invitation, and putting the blame of its flaws in "the mind". People were sharing how the Invitation was coming short and Moo kept demonizing the mind. He somehow made people believe that there is a villain inside them that should be fought, and the disaster began. Now, most of satsang was spent talking about this apparent bad guy. I don't know if Mooji knew the consequences and issues that would arise out of this, and if he didn't, that's the proof that supposedly enlightened gurus can fuck up just like us.

Soon, The Invitation became a label and books were published about it. In Monte Sahaja, the team put the Invitation to Freedom video playing repeatedly in a room, so that people could watch it anytime and multiple times a day, indifferent to the unhealthiness of this. Every concern that his followers showed was blamed on the mind and the invitation kept being shared. I remember thinking about how it felt like a cult but dismissing that thought for coming from my "ego-mind". To some people (I was one of them), satsang became a drug. We went to satsang, felt bliss as Moo was speaking and telling his dozens of life stories (and telling us that he didn't want to hear our stories), then went home and crashed. Why? Because the invitation doesn't integrate you into the world and normal life. Moo told us constantly that we should refuse going out with friends and family to, instead, stay inside and listen to the invitation. I don't know what kind of spiritual teacher advises their students to run away from the world. To keep the bliss, you have to keep watching satsang and going to Monte Sahaja. He knows just what to say to make you feel special and spiritual. So we kept going and feeling wonderful, then coming back to the world and feeling disappointed. We were told "You're almost there, just one more satsang!", but it was never just one more. When the bliss of one satsang went away, we had to attend another one to recharge. It was the same experience as being addicted to drugs. I realized something was wrong when I began to notice that I was completely indifferent to the real world. I started to feel annoyed at other people and practices, because "the invitation is so simple and instant, why are people wasting time with other spiritual stuff and psychotherapy?!" and this simplicity and effort-free way to bliss is often advertised by Mooji as something positive. I lost all interest in the world and spent half of the day watching satsangs. I began to see some weirder things surrounding Moo, like the suicide of Flo Camoin in Monte Sahaja and how we were advised to keep quiet and not bring it up. I visited this thread many times, and would always leave thinking you guys were all just really identified with your egos. But something was growing inside of me, some skepticism. At one point I searched about how to know if you're in a cult, and everything matched. That was when I left.


I feel especially bad for Krishnabai, Omkara and all of his other early followers. They seem like such wonderful people and don't deserve what is happening to them. They have been with him for such a long time that I believe they can't even imagine walking away from Monte Sahaja and having a life outside of that place. It's a hole that sucks them in. They left family, study, job and friends to waste their youth with this dude. I imagine some thoughts may appear in them about leaving, but they must think that's "just the mind", after all, that's years of being conditioned to distrust their thoughts completely (Ironically, Moo calls this deconditioning). If any of you are reading this thread while inside Monte Sahaja, like I was, just know that there's a way out. It seems unimaginable to leave, but when you do, it will feel like being released from the prison. I want to let you guys know that I think about you all the time.

Right now, it's just me and God on this path, no guru. The pointings that Moo shares are wonderful and life-changing, but somehow he and his followers confused things.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2018 10:32PM by yourinlove.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: October 25, 2018 06:07AM

Yourinlove,

I'm so glad you have shared your story here. Reading your words, I feel that you describe everything accurately and in detail.... What you say is exactly what I have come to believe about the Moo cult, after all my extensive research over the past few months.

You were actually there in Monte Saharja, while I was only hypnotised over the Internet.

I too, had a lot of concerns about Moo suggesting that people stay home and don't go out socialising unnecessarily. I too, thought that he was trying to get people to isolate themselves, away from family and friends. I also thought that Moo seemed to suggest that you don't tell anyone about your new-found interest in self-enquiry, as though he was worried that people would warn you that it could be a cult!

I have read multiple reports from people now, saying how Moo's pointings caused them to lose touch with the real world, but not in a good way. They became incapable of holding down a job and ran into financial problems - this can't be healthy. No spiritual practice should lead you to become alienated from the real world of friends, productive work, daily life. That is not spirituality, that is hypnosis and in the wrong hands it is dangerous!

I'm so glad that you have left this cult. I hope you will be OK now.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: happytown ()
Date: October 25, 2018 06:26AM

Great advice for anyone exiting a high demand group:

[cultresearch.org]

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: October 25, 2018 06:44AM

SadGame,

You make some very important points. I am actually with you, because I don't think there is anything wrong with self-enquiry as a mode of spiritual development. I don't think there is anything wrong with meditation, or with praying to God, either. I think life can have a spiritual dimension to it, and that spirituality can be immensely rewarding.

However, the way Moo teaches self-enquiry is very misleading and exploitative. I think he does it to fulfill his own ego ambitions to be worshipped as though he is an all-knowing God. I think he is probably a narcissist or even worse, some kind of sociopath. And I don't say that lightly, as though I just want to put him down, because I don't like him. I think he is dangerous.

Putting material out there on the Internet for anyone to watch without making people aware that it is hypnosis or trance-induction (for example- The Invitation) should be illegal. Moo calls some of his videos "guided meditations" when they are actually trace-induction. That is very, very deceptive, in my opinion. A truly spiritual person would never deceive people in that way.

As I have said, there are multiple reports of people losing everything in their lives due to getting addicted to Moo's trance material. They are giving all their money to Moo, leaving their jobs and families and becoming like zombies. All they can say in response to anything you ask them is "That is just your mind".

When I stared watching Moo online myself, I mostly noticed a very pleasant, relaxed feeling. It didn't last the whole day, so I felt like I wanted to get the relaxed feeling back, by watching more and more videos.

I began to feel a bit detached from the outside world. Things that I would normally look forward to, like shopping, for example, lost their appeal to me. I began to think "nothing really matters much". I felt different.

I started to have some kind of "devotional" feelings towards Moo. (Yuck. How embarrassing!!) I felt like he said such profound things and that he had all the answers. Any problem I might encounter, I could just apply self reflection and my problem would go away. (Important note: problems don't go away, just because you are capable of denying them!!)

I began to want to travel to Monte Saharja.... I couldn't see how I could do it with my work commitments, though. I began to think that I could abandon my current job.... it's only a job, right? Never mind that having a job pays for groceries, electricity, water, clothes.... Ummm, you kind of need these things, really.

But this where I was headed.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: happytown ()
Date: October 25, 2018 06:47AM

Great advice for anyone exiting from a high demand group:

[cultresearch.org]

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: happytown ()
Date: October 25, 2018 06:52AM

Are You, or Is Someone You Know, Involved in a High-Demand Group or Movement ("cult")?

We suggest that you check all characteristics that apply to your or your loved one's group:
    [*] ...
    The group is focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.
    The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
    The group is preoccupied with making money.
    Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
    Mind-numbing techniques (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
    The leadership dictates sometimes in great detail how members should think, act, and feel (for example: members must get permission from leaders to date, change jobs, get married; leaders may prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so forth).
    The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).
    The group has a polarized us- versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society.
    The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, military commanders and ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream denominations).
    The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means that members would have considered unethical before joining the group (for example: collecting money for bogus charities).
    The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them.
    Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with family and friends, and to give up personal goals and activities that were of interest before joining the group.
    Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.
    Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
    [*] ...

It is not about ticking all the boxes. Any one of these or more is a serious cause for concern.

[www.dreichel.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2018 06:55AM by happytown.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Constantin ()
Date: October 25, 2018 05:17PM

Hello Everyone!

I was very happy to read this thread since many things that are said here have been watched here first hand. I have been with Mooji and later here at Sahaja since 2011.

Its very hard difficult to get out of this cult because the amount of bliss one can receive, or seemingly so.

But red flags kept coming over the years and now.....well it's not a question any more. Mooji is a cult. The amount of evidence is overwhelming.

We can go into detail all day, but i wish to make a few points that have not come to light in this thread so far.

Firstly Moo likes to control peoples lives, down to who they have sex with with. And because of this there are people going around to see who is sleeping with who.

Furthermore Moo has two faces, one in satsang, where he is lovely and friendly, and then there is the other guy who is very bad tempered and can be callus, rough and will talk behind your back.


Mooji does not follow through with things he says and promises. He makes big meetings about something very important, but then nothing happens.

So the outcome is more and more politics and power games within the Ashram.

And again I would like to point out that many of the stories you hear about Moo cult are true, of course not all of it. We always have to watch out for BS.

So thank you all again for this thread, truth is more important than farce.

C.L.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Constantin ()
Date: October 25, 2018 06:08PM

Moo tried to copy OSHO as much as possible, but mooo is Advaita in the end, which is very different approach.

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1984 We Must Give All Love to Big Brother -- No One Else
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 25, 2018 09:37PM

Let us remember that in Orwell's novel 1984, when Winston Smith is found to
be in love with Julia, he has formed an inner life that excludes Big Brother.

In Big Brother's regime, this is forbidden.

Big Brother's enforcers intervene and destroy their love.

How Totalism Works -- Alexandra Stein

[aeon.co]

This entire article is worth a close look. Here are a few quotations.

Quote

Not all leaders want to get rich, gain sexual favours, or grab political power. But all want utter control over others. Money, sex, free labour or loyal combatants are all fringe benefits, and certainly most leaders take advantage of these, some in a big way. But absolute control over their relationships is the key....Meanwhile, the leader keeps the inner circle off-balance by sowing distrust, and promoting and demoting personnel seemingly at random.

Quote

People in totalist organisations are pressed so tightly together that their individuality is erased – as are any trusting interactions among them. Everyone is a ‘friend’ but true friendship is suppressed as a diversion from, and a threat to, attachment to the cause, the leader and the group. In fact, far from finding true comradeship or companionship, followers face a triple isolation: from the outside world, from each other within the closed system, and from their own internal dialogue, where clear thinking about the group might arise.

Quote

For a totalist system to wield complete control, the leader must tap fear – this is the fourth element of totalism. The process of brainwashing that totalist systems engage in is one of psychological, coercive manipulation where the leader or group alternates terror with ‘love’. Bowlby said that when we are frightened, we don’t simply run away from the fear, but run to a safe haven, ‘to someone…’ – and that someone is usually a person to whom we feel attached. But when the supposed safe haven is also the source of the fear, then running to that person is a failing strategy, causing the frightened person to freeze, trapped between approach and avoidance.

Mary Main, the renowned attachment researcher at the University of California, Berkeley, called this type of fear-based relationship ‘disorganised attachment’. This has a two-fold result: a confused emotional bonding to the source of fear in a failed attempt to seek comfort, and a cognitive dissociation, that is, the inability to think about one’s feelings.

Fear or stress without escape – ‘fright without solution’, as attachment researchers refer to it – is a traumatic state that derails a person’s ability to think logically and clearly about the situation and therefore to take action to resolve it. Further, never achieving safety from the threat, they will keep returning to the relationship trying to gain that safety. Having disabled logical thinking about the traumatic relationship, the leader can then introduce even more of the fictitious ideology to explain away and redirect the follower’s terror.

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Once this fear-based control is in place, it is quite difficult to break: the follower’s dissociation and disorganised emotional attachment to the leader or group makes it extremely difficult to look clearly at what is happening. In fact, any attempt to do so only creates more fear, causing further disorganised bonding to the group to attempt to ease the stress

Quote

Different groups have different fear-arousing themes and methods: the oncoming apocalypse, fear of outsiders, fear of punishment, and exhaustion, among many other types of threatening strategies. But the leader is always the sole saviour, the one who will lead them away from (or through) the fear they are experiencing to a wonderful safety, to paradise, to a perfect, transformed world.

Isolating and fear-driven systems led by authoritarian figures yield deployable followers who override their own survival needs and autonomy in the service of the group. This creation of deployable followers is the fifth characteristic of such groups.

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