Hi JJ,

Well, I'm certainly open to hearing what people have to say - if there is one thing The Work has taught me is that if I'm resistant to someone or something, there's something for me to look at in there, so I'll at least try to do that if stuff comes up for me.

By the way, my ex-wife attended one of the schools a couple of years ago, also a weekend-intensive prior to that and certainly seemed to get a lot out of them, although as far as I know she doesn't do The Work anymore - yoga seems to be more her thing nowadays.

With thanks,

Jon

Hi Anticult,

Thanks for the invite into the parlor of reality - I accept :-)

I'm open to hearing what is said here - I'm certainly not on here with an agenda to sell The Work or anything like that - just wanted to be open about me and my own experience. Certainly not intended as any kind of sell about The Work.

Looking back on my initial post I can see how the 'free online' thing could be seen as pushing that - sadly, that wasn't my intention, that was more about stressing that I'm not a 'paid out loads of money on workshops, etc' person.

(Besides, I assume this is probably not a great place to try and sell The Work, unless I'm missing something!)

With regards to what you said about only the 4 questions being The Work, that's not my understanding of it - that it is the 4 questions plus the turnarounds. At least that's how I've always heard it described and how I treat it.

Just going and looking at the work website, it is described as 3 parts - the judge your neighbor worksheet, the 4 questions and the turnarounds.

Anyway, I look forward to learning more here.

With thanks,

Jon

Since we are all now talking about how Byron Katie and The Work, and Stever Robbins, and Carol Skolnick are doing covert, secret, Erickonian Hypnosis on you without your awareness...

Here is a previous post that just goes into it a little bit more.
There is even a Erickonsian hypnographic Secret Message for Carol L. Skolnick at the bottom. Maybe too secret?

Waking Hypnosis Love Bombing, covert persuasion
[forum.culteducation.com]

(by the way, the recent Blog comment posting on the Byron Katie blog on the shocking looming death from skin cancer and radiation...is a pure Hypnotic Induction by Carol Skolnick. Carol Skolnick is also a covert hypnotist, I bet you did not know that...'cause its covert!)

also, if you wanted (not) to learn some covert Erickons Hypnosis from the NLP trainer unconscious manipulator Stever Robbins.
Here is a massive page of info by Stever.
It'll only cost you about $50,000 for all the NLP super-LGAT's, once they get done with you.

[www.nlpschedule.com]

"Much of early NLP was based on the work of Virginia Satir, a family therapist; Fritz Perls, founder of Gestalt therapy; Gregory Bateson, anthropologist; and Milton Erickson, hypnotist." - Stever Robbins, NLP Trainer

Anti-cult,,

What info would you recommend to start learning about Ericksonian hypnosis? I'd like a 101 course on it, what are its basic components?

I always imagined that I could not be hypnotized, but I suppose if one is not aware that it's taking place at all . . .

It seems hypnotism is at the core of what is so dangerous about cults, gurus and LGATs. My ex, right before he went to Landmark, insisted that he would not go if they used hypnotic techniques. I don't know what happened to that assertion, except I guess they must have told him they don't use them? Or . . . perhaps he secretly wanted them to do everything to him.

I've been reading "The Demon Haunted World" by Carl Sagan. He says:

"Magic requires tacit cooperation of the audience with the magician -- an abandonment of skepticism, or what is sometimes described as the willing suspension of disbelief. It immediately follows that to penetrate the magic, to expose the trick, we must cease collaborating."

It's been amazing to watch the many ways my ex has been collaborating with Landmark, so their magic will work on him.

Hi vlinden...
you question seems easy, but its not! You are asking...what is the Mind?
:-)
The first thing expert hypnotists do is prove there is no such thing as hypnosis. I actually agree. Its semantics. Sowhen somebody says THERE IS NO HYPNOSIS, that is the first step in the waking Trance.
But, to be specific, here are some links.
[www.google.com]

#1) don't spend 1 penny on this, its full of scammers.
#2) read free stuff on the internet, but follow rule #1. Almost everyone of those guys is DOING to you, not teaching you. They are DOING it, and what they are teaching is really just the Distraction. (like Byron Katie)
#3) get academic books from a good library, by and about Erickson

Seriously, its so complex. Ericksonian style hypnosis is WAKING hypnosis. No waving watches.
Its indirect words and images to the Unconscious.
Unconscious Persuasion.
Watch Byron Katie, that is what she is doing! (her own artistic-autistic version of it).

But stay away from Richard Bandler, I've seen him many times That guy is something else, dangerous.

Quote
vlinden
Anti-cult,,

What info would you recommend to start learning about Ericksonian hypnosis? I'd like a 101 course on it, what are its basic components?

I always imagined that I could not be hypnotized, but I suppose if one is not aware that it's taking place at all . . .

It seems hypnotism is at the core of what is so dangerous about cults, gurus and LGATs. .

I know we're not talking about Bandler here, specifically, but since we're dealing with hypnosis and BK, here's an interested Mother Jones article on Bandler.

"Bandler’s story is, in a sense, a parable of the New Age. Having rejected many of the boundaries that
govern relations among people, he was like a sailor without anchor or sails, adrift in a peculiarly New Age
sea. Here the individual was sovereign; problems were solved easily and self-examination was denigrated;
the past could be reimagined at will, and morality was relative. Here Bandler could deny not only guilt,
but all responsibility for the death of Corine Christensen."

[209.85.173.104]

What is The Work? It seems to change daily? Why? Where are the explanations?

Does it need to be immediately reported the psychological authorities in California?

There were detailed and what appeared like extreme psychological and even medical CLAIMS being made on "What Is The Work" website of Byron Katie.
But sometime after Feb 23, 2008 they were DELETED from their webpage, and that area was left blank.
Its all explained starting at this link in the other thread.
[forum.culteducation.com]

But now as of March 03, 2008, they have reposted and CHANGED at least 6 CLAIMS.
That page of The Work website no longer says The Work is:
________________________________________________
"a way to end all your stress and suffering",
'Eliminate stress: Live without anxiety or fear'
"Reduce anger: Get angry less often and less intensely, and eventually not at all"
"Eliminate depression: See perfection in situations that were once debilitating"
"Clarity: Act more intelligently and effectively"
"Peace: Learn how to love what is, and find lasting inner peace"
_________________________________________________

But another of the Byron Katie webpages STILL retains those original medical sounding extreme psychological claims as of March 3, 2008.
[www.thework.com]
Also, about 200 other internet sites STILL contain the original extreme psychological claims! Put any of those claims into a search engine in "quotes" like this and look at all the duplicate sites.

"Eliminate depression: See perfection in situations that were once debilitating"

Does this not appear to need to be reported immediately to the authorities?
_________________________________________________
If any citizen has any concerns or questions about psychological claims being made, they can make a confidential complaint to the California Board of Psychology. [www.psychboard.ca.gov]
_________________________________________________



Now here is the "new" version of their Claims, profoundly altered, in at least 6 main ways. Compare for yourself.
[www.thework.com] (as of March 3, 2008)

Quote

What is The Work?
The Work is a simple yet powerful process of inquiry that teaches you to identify and question thoughts that cause all the suffering in the world. It's a way to understand what's hurting you, and to address your problems with clarity.

People who do The Work as an ongoing practice report life-changing results.

Alleviation of depression: Find resolution, and even happiness, in situations that were once debilitating
Decreased stress: Learn how to live with less anxiety or fear
Improved relationships: Experience deeper connection and intimacy with your partner, your parents, your children, your friends, and yourself
Reduced anger: Understand what makes you angry and resentful, and become less reactive, less often, with less intensity
Increased mental clarity: Live and work more intelligently and effectively, with integrity
More energy: Experience a new sense of ongoing vigor and well-being
More peace: Discover how to become "a lover of what is"

[Below is pasted the original text of Claims that appeared on that web-page as of 23 Feb 2008 19:13:19 GMT]
[forum.culteducation.com]

Quote

What is The Work?
The Work is a simple yet powerful process of inquiry that teaches you to identify and question the stressful thoughts that cause all the suffering in the world. It's a way to understand what's hurting you, a way to end all your stress and suffering.

People who do The Work faithfully report life-changing results.

Eliminate stress: Live without anxiety or fear
Improve relationships: Have a new sense of connection and intimacy with your husband or wife, your parents, your children, and with yourself
Reduce anger: Get angry less often and less intensely, and eventually not at all
Eliminate depression: See perfection in situations that were once debilitating
Clarity: Act more intelligently and effectively
Energy: Experience a new sense of vigor and well-being
Peace: Learn how to love what is, and find lasting inner peace

_________________________________________________
If any citizen has any concerns or questions about psychological claims being made, they can make a confidential complaint to the California Board of Psychology. [www.psychboard.ca.gov]
_________________________________________________

Okay... so all this discussion about byron katie's website and the Ericksonian hypnosis... got me thinking about this book I read once upon a time called "Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion" by Robert B. Cialdini, Ph.D. I found it on the shelf and started going through it tonight... and I'm really glad that I did. Here's what I learned:

Byron Katie uses some pretty solid marketing tricks and techniques to influence people's decision to buy her stuff. Not only that, but her big-time followers-- like Carol Skolnick-- appear to be locked in with the same influence. I'll try to explain this as best I can.

First, is RECIPROCATION. The basic idea is that if you give someone something or do something for them, they will generally feel obligated to reciprocate. So, free samples, bonus buys, all of that free stuff isn't given to consumers out of the kindness of the manufacturer's heart... It's done to ensnare buyers in the social norm of RECIPROCATION. They give you something free, you buy their product. Simple enough.

It's easy to find this in byronkatie-world... such as... do "The Work" for free over the hotline. A lot of people are introduced to The Work when they are given one of the little mini-books of "Loving What Is" by a facilitator. Of course, facilitators don't get those books for free, but they hand them out to people they want to recruit. All of this gives the illusion that Byron Katie and her followers are humanitarian, just trying to help out the suffering masses. In reality, they just want you to reciprocate... buy more stuff... maybe a $3000 seminar.

Have you ever seen the sheer volume of book, CD and DVD titles that byron katie has out? How many different ways can you package "four simple questions"? Apparently, many.

Obviously, the trade-off leaves byron katie at an unfair advantage. That's the point. According to Cialdini's studies, this is a highly effective marketing technique. The law of reciprocation is ingrained in most of us in our society from early on.

Next, is COMMITMENT and CONSISTENCY. This technique is based on the knowledge that once people make a commitment... even if they don't mean it... they are much more likely to follow through with something. People like to see themselves as consistent. So, a fundraiser, for example, could ask a person to commit X amount of dollars on a certain date. When that date comes around, that person will likely follow through with no pressure, simple because he wants to see himself as consistent. It also works in a slightly different way... if you tell someone they are generous, they are likely to commit more generous acts of giving because they want to see themselves as consistent.

Being consistent is a highly valued trait in our society. Marketers know how to exploit this trait. I think Byron Katie uses this one in a lot of different ways. Most notably on her website is the promise to end suffering, and bring all those things she has promised through doing "The Work." People who are seeking healing, peace, and personal growth are easily enticed to purchase her books and seminars-- to get involved-- because doing so would be consistent with their self-image and values.

The commitment part of it takes place whenever someone gets another person to do "The Work." Even more twisted and manipulated are the commitments that a person makes to themselves in response to Byron Katie's hynoptic suggestions like: "If this were the only way to God, would you take it?" I should be surprised to find out that many people make inner commitments with themselves in response to her suggestions. Then, when doubts arise, they stay involved because they are so committed, and want to be consistent. I think that may be part of why it's so hard to walk away once you've spent thousands of dollars on her LGATs. Speaking from experience, here.

Cialdini mentions the writing, too. Companies who run contests to get people to write something about their product have a different goal in mind that just a fun contest to draw attention to their product. Getting people to actually write out positive things about the product helps solidify that in the person's mind. It creates a stronger desire and liking for the product.

I think of all the times I've heard Byron Katie say, "Write it down". And all the hours I spent writing it down. And how that was so purposeful... it was to solidify "The Work" in my mind. And, it worked.

Next is SOCIAL PROOF. This is based on the strong tendency that we humans have to look for social proof to show us the correct course of behavior. We tend to look to others to see how to behave in situations where we are unsure. "When in Rome..." Marketers generally know this, and provide testimonies and statements like "9 out of 10 doctors recommend"... or show us images of all the people already using this product...

So, people new to the weird world of byron katie would naturally be looking for social proof to show them what they should do next. byron katie's website is frought with testimonials and her own stories to illustrate for the reader how they should think and behave, and what they should desire... and buy. Social proof is a major instrument used in The School. MAJOR.

(I think this is why some cults tend to inflate their membership numbers... to give others social proof.)

Next, there is LIKING and ASSOCIATION. People tend to make choices based on strong liking... like the guy who chooses the Honda because of the buxom babe in the ad, rather than the car itself. But it's more than just liking. When people see an attractive model next to a product, they tend to associate the traits of the model with the product itself. Obviously, advertisements are full of tricks that use this principle.

I see this with byron katie and her husband. Stephen has a little reputation as an "expert" in religion and philosophy. His marriage and involvement in byron katie's business (and co-authorship of her books) causes people to view her as an "expert" on these things by association. Also, she is frequently endorsed by Eckhart Tolle and other authors who gain converts for her by association.

Her good looks... face lift and all... serve very well to make people like her, whether we realize it or not. I suppose that would be a plausible explanation for the face lift... to maintain her likability.

Then, there is AUTHORITY. People tend to want to follow the advice and example of those they feel are authorities. "9 out of 10 dentists prefer"... This is why we see Tiger Woods advertising deodorant, I suppose. LOL! He must be an authority on sweat.

Anyway, I think this is also why Stephen Mitchell's role in byron katie's kingdom is so public and so important. People view him as an authority on spirituality, enlightenment, religion, philosophy... his endorsement and marriage to byron katie is the BIGGEST endorsement of all.

I guess people who might consider Eckhart Tolle and Wayne Dyer, etc, for authorities might also be persuaded to buy byron katie's stuff on the sheer merit of the endorsement itself.

I think all of this stuff applies to byron katie's big followers like Carol Skolnick. All these people who dedicate their blogsites, websites, and lives to byron katie's philosophy seem to be living on the principle of liking and association. It's almost like they expect us to love and revere them solely on the fact they they are associated with byron katie somehow.

Ugh... it's getting late. Gotta' stop there.

-jj