Yes, of course, they are all in cahoots with eachother, doing eachother's cross-marketing, to lure in the Marks and suckers if they can find them.
They don't get that many of them, but at $150K a pop in advance, you don't need many. And the $150K is just the START, they will do everything to keep it going for YEARS and YEARS. And they will upsell from there too. Its almost unbelievable what can go on behind the scenes.

And its not just a two-way shill-fest, its more than a 3-way. They are tight with the Miracle-Man Stephen McGhee, who is slicker than slick.
There is a horde at the trough. Its a cross-shill-orgie really..

BTW, WTF with all the Steve's? Its really getting absurd... [forum.culteducation.com]
Stephen Mitchell, Steve Hardison, Steve Chandler, Stephen McGhee, Stever Robbins, Steven Sashen.


What is interesting and relevant here of course, is that Byron Katie and Stephen Mitchell both strongly, strongly ENDORSE Steve Hardison and the gang.
And Steve Hardison is claiming he "took 21 of my clients with me and we spent nine days in her School". (The Byron Katie School).

Oh yeah? What does he mean by "took". Who paid the bill? Of course they would pay their own way. If in fact Steve Hardison did take 21 "clients" to the BK workshop, did he collect a commission for the referral? 21 people x $4,500 = almost $100,000, just in tickets, never mind everything else.
People get commissions for referring friends and clients to LGATs, sometimes up to 25%, as the rates are reduced for groups.

Its just more pre-arranged cross-promotion and marketing, referrals, commissions, and a shill-fest. You shill for me, I shill for you, and we split the spoils.
One has to wonder who is learning what from who. Clearly Byron Katie is more skilled at certain advanced persuasion methods, and these other guys are trying to mimick her Love-Bombing stuff.
But perhaps they are teaching her the mechanics of the business, the referrals, upselling, internet marketing and the rest of it?
blech.

[www.theultimatecoach.net]
“Dear Steve,
Thanks from both of us from the bottom of our hearts. You are the king of manifestors.
Love and gratitude,
Stephen (Mitchell)”

QUOTE: "I adore you Steve Hardison!...I love you... ...Thank you Steve, for knowing the way.
xoxoxo kt (Byron Katie)"


_____________________________________

Quote
Stoic
"In fact I have the ultimate coach, Steve Hardison. (www.theultimatecoach.net). I've had him off and on for years and we are currently in the middle of a four year contract. He has changed my life.."

I very much doubt that Hardison is doing any coaching of Chandler. This is a sort of two-way shill operation with each one boosting the credibility of the other.
Also the punters need to see that someone- Chandler in this case- is willing to pay the ludicrous fee demanded, its intended to implant the idea that Hardison must have something really special to offer if Chandler, an 'accomplished coach' himself is taking advantage of this great offering of a four year non-refundable contract.

The guys who run the three card trick scams- otherwise known as 'chase the lady'- always have a shill, a plant in the audience to start off the game. Someone needs to break the ice before the real marks will try their luck and enter the game.

Hi there. Why be busy with the messenger (Byron Katie, Eckhart Tolle)? Look into the message and decide for yourself what is useful to you and leave the rest would be my suggestion and nobody but you can know what is useful to you, so nobody can give you an answer to whether they are 'the thing' or not.
Love and hugs from Solvejg

'One has to wonder who is learning what from who.'

I think they are all learning from each other how to sell hot air, or ice to Eskimo's, or water by the river--because there is no product to sell in coaching except a future promise--with no guarantee or predictable result---of something that is not quantifiable, not measurable.

Success, a better life, better relationships, knowledge of god--these all mean different things to different people, and are completely personal and subjective valuations, purely ideas.

The idea that a man called Steve or even several men called Steve have the magic key (at such a bargain price!) to manifest all this good stuff is laughable.
Ideals and good ideas can translate into something concrete but not by any magical means.

The best coach in the world can only encourage the coachee to think out a plan and put it into practice, take some action. Success, which would need to be defined as success at something-a job, sport, a concrete endeavour- before the word 'success' has any meaning at all, is just a feel-good idea when it is used in such sales.

'I, too, have left seminars with a bag of junk and a lighter wallet.'

I've thought about quite a bit about how these hypnotic techniques work, the modern stuff is nothing like as crude as one man putting the woo on another.

My own conclusions are that we are predisposed, through upbringing and socialisation to obey somone who 'sounds' authoritive. He might be making it up as he goes along but sounding authoritive gives a veneer of credibility.

We all grew up learning to obey parents, teachers and just the prevailing social rules, and this formative experience has a lot to do with how we behave in groups.

These guys play on just this formative experience--which we all share as we all got socialised one way or another-- and use it to sell the worthless junk.

Just watched a good film 'The Wave' on the main site that illustrates this very well.

Quote
The Anticult
There are actually very few "ideas" in the Byron Katie system, the NonDual stuff is really more about just creating confusion in people, which is the primary technique.
For example, the 4 Questions operate like the worm on a fish-hook, to get people to bite into them, and then BK can reel them in, one step at a time.

The 4 Questions of Byron Katie have been debunked before in detail, by a number of people.
(The Work, in terms of the 4 Questions and a Turnaround, is a clever "gimmick"). [forum.culteducation.com]

The Turnaround does not work, what it does is create excessive self-blame, and self-guilt, and that creates depression. That is intentional, as then people are lured into the Byron Katie seminars and "coaching" systems.
Why are there so many people making so much money off the Byron Katie coaching systems, if it worked? It doesn't work. It creates momentary Dissociation, and then that creates even more problems.

Very important to hammer home what The Anticult has pointed out above.

I can attest from my own experience that doing The Work creates momentary Dissociation, which only gives a temporary bit of relief, but then reality always comes crashing back. The twisted Turnarounds DO as Anticult states cause a lot of self-blame as well as disorientation or a sense of unreality.

That is destabilizing, not health-promoting.

Byron Katie's "Work" promotes solipsism, which is the philosophical idea that one's own mind is all that exists.

I've found some fascinating info on something called "Solipsism Syndrome".

Quote

Solipsism syndrome is a pathological psychiatric condition involving a dissociative mental state. This psychiatric condition is characterized by a detachment from reality – a state of mind in which a person begins to feel that all reality is internal and the remainder of the perceived universe is unreal or only exists in a dream state. The condition is not other than incidentally related to Solipsism as a philosophical world view.


Developmental psychologists commonly believe that infants are solipsist, and that eventually children infer that others have experience much like theirs and learn to experience empathy (see Infant metaphysics).

Solipsism syndrome has been postulated as a danger which may be faced by those living in space or on another planet for extended periods of time.

And here is more:

Quote

Some environments may be conducive to producing solipsism syndrome. This state of mind can be easily produced in an environment where everything is artificial, where everything is like a theater stage, where every wish can be fulfilled by a push-button, and where there is nothing beyond the theater stage and beyond an individual's control.

Gee, sounds quite like the uber-controlled environment of a Large Group Awareness Training (LGAT). Imagine that.

Above is from Wikipedia.

Below is a link to a harrowing account of depersonalization. I found it on the recently mentioned RichardDawkins.net's message board.

The person describes a horrifying prolonged state of extreme depersonalization, triggered by involvement with information put forth by "self-improvement" guy Steve Pavlina (yes, another "Steve"):

[[url=http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=28002]Help Overcoming Solipsism[/url]]

I like how, at least for the moment, posters are ignoring that which might be considered disruptive and staying on topic. That may be ticket!

qd

QD, I'm inclined to agree!

Quote

Solipsism syndrome has been postulated as a danger which may be faced by those living in space or on another planet for extended periods of time.

It may also become a hazard now that more and more of us are interacting with computers rather than living breathing present persons, and plugging into iPods.

I met a fellow yesterday whose iPod earpieces were decorated as jewelry with tiny
rhinestones.

He said hed purchased them at a special store. That's the length weve gone to--being plugged into electronic gadgets for so much of the day that the earpieces are now being
designed as jewelry.

And it may be that many who have been or are celebrated as Jnanis may have actually been suffering from solipsistic syndrome.

And its possible that some are fascinated by reading about such persons, thinking its their wisdom teachings that are fascinating, when perhaps subconsciously, the actual fascinating for some readers is that these persons weresocially inept and withdrawn yet by speaking nondual twaddle, could attract attention, adulation and POWER, and end up being celebrated as gurus or jnanis by being in India.

In the US, someone in that condition who did not learn to speak Advaita twaddle and have the good luck to live in California and aquire a PR consultant could end up rating a psych diagnosis and be advised to get training in social skills.

Regarding solipsistic syndrome,

This to me is a troubling account of how someone formerly interested in playing music lost that interest after becoming 'enlightened.'

I will quote a very small excerpt. The author says his episode was triggered by reading an early Ken Wilber book, 'The Spectrum of Consciousness'


[74.125.113.132]

Contrary to what the above writer asserts, enlightenment need not kill creativity.

Now, it may not directly lead TO creativity, but may be a way to keep oneself happy and occuppied in between bliss states. But, the careers of the persons listed below form a counter arguement to the rather chilly state of being described in the URL above.

It is worth noting that other mystics have produced art (Andrei Rublev the icon painter, Zen and Tibetan painters and sculptors) excellent poetry (Juan de la Cruz, William Blake, Jaluladdin Rumi, Shah Bhatai, Abd el Rahman, al Faris and others) and music (Ephraim the Syrian, whose lyrics remain Romanus Melodes and many anonymous Russian Orthodox composers whose liturgical music will lift you to the skies, and many Sufi lineages whose musicians continue to compose today)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2009 11:46PM by corboy.