Quote
Meadow
I just found out that within the BK circles the word is going around that some crazy lady from Europe is spreading lies about Katie.

the only crazy lady spreading lies about anything is Katie herself.

And furthermore they (yet again) re-adjusted their 'Code of Ethics':

Professional Conduct Agreement
1. I agree to conduct myself in a manner that reflects positively upon The Work, and I will
not engage in conduct or make statements that may negatively affect another facilitator
and/or The Work.
2. I will strive to recognize personal issues that may impair, conflict, or interfere with my
facilitation. Should the facts and circumstances necessitate, I will promptly seek and
welcome assistance to determine any action to be taken, including whether it is
appropriate to suspend or terminate my facilitation relationship(s).
3. When moving The Work in the world, I agree to conduct myself in a manner that will
support the efforts of Byron Katie International and the Institute for the Work, its
Certified Facilitators, and certification candidates. In advertising and promoting my
Work-related services, I will abide by principles of open and direct communication,
inclusion, kindness, and non-competition.

They sound like a scared and scary bunch!

Anticult quoted something on another thread about a quite different teacher. But..this section seemed especially good and transferable to other situations.

Quote

You
should see the pictures of Crane on his website and he looks like a
mildly dorky mid-30's businessman, but you see him in person and he's
just a weird old man with these glossed over eyes.


I say "eyes" loosely though because you don't get the idea these release techniquers themselves actually see you when they look at you – but they're listening for a change in the tone of your voice, a certain inflection, a pause in the
wrong place and they wait to jump on it at just the right time and try
to sell you one package or another.

That's when, if you look, you see the greed in their eye, a something-for-nothing leer, that's when you realize the release technique works mostly on your wallet.

[forum.culteducation.com]

I suggest 'the look' is more than simple greed.

It may be that of someone pretending to relate to you as a person but who is actually seeing you not as a person at all, but as a program to penetrate and into which to insert a section of THEIR CODE so as to corrupt your core and reprogram you to equate your identity, and cherised hopes with the operators public personality--all to route your money and loyalty into their coffers.

The glazed glittering eyes of a mind hacker?

This is something worth pondering.

Some interesting things can be learned by reading various discussion venues on BK is that there appear to be many persons who report themselves troubled by the current behavior of BK and her organizational practices--yet they are not willing to question the techniques produced by BK. .

THe process of mythologizing something, anything, has to be questioned. Keep mythologising something, and another guru will come along and fill that hole.

A technique such as the work can be mythologized,not just the guru who created the technique.

Mythologize a technique and you're still in handcuffs even if you think you have left a guru. A dog can break away, but still be trailing a long length of chain. Anyone can come along and grab the chain and re-capture the dog.

These thoughtful persons, some of whom have reported themselves gravely concerned about BK and her retreats, want to believe they can hang onto doing 4 questions and turnarounds without BK--that the two can be separated.

They want a middle ground. They keep saying they do not want to 'throw the baby out with the bathwater.'

(Corboy question--This question doesnt say what kind of 'baby' is in the bathwater. What if 'the baby' is a rattlesnake?)

(Also, one doesnt have to dump out the baby and the bathwater. How about--removing your own body from that body of water? The lesson here is--learn not to be a prisoner of someone else's metaphor.)

They keep hoping to find to do The Work apart from the person who created it, tradmarked it and linked it to her mythologized public persona.

These struggling people find RR.com rather harsh because here we do go further and question the entire context in which people like BK make themselves plausible.

These 'in the middle' people are not yet ready to question the four questions and turnarounds. They are troubled by BK but want to keep using the techniques, possible because the techniques are like a point of connection--instant initmacy in a lonely world and access to network of like minded folks.

These persons are potentially an exploitable group--a potential niche market.

They risk being exploited and used by yet another set of entrepreneurs who know how they tick.

cThis is a constituency that wants someone to look up to, want to hope. They dont yet want to face that any mass promoted guru or teacher is a product of theatre, of specialized marketing, and this kind of marketing is designed to reach a specific demographic--an important group of people who are in terrible pain, and who feel reluctant or afraid to consult licenesed psychotherapists and yet willing to take the far greater risk of making themselves vulnerable to entreprenuers to operate for profit and with out the legal accountability accepted by professional therapists.

So there is now a market open for sanctuaries run by those who offer ways to do 4 questions and turnarounds but without BK.

They dont want to face that the four questions and turnaround were never designed to be therapeutic or healing becasue the person who designed them was never trained as a therapist and never researched these methods before releasing them to the general populace--UNLIKE COGNITIVE BEHAVIORAL THERAPY WHICH WAS RESEARCHED.

More people with glittering eyes may begin to show up and fish in the New Age pond--which includes cyberspace.

We may start to see persons trying with the best of intentions, to offer ways to do The Work apart from BK, much the way Freezone Scientologists are sincerely trying to use auditing and the Scientology Gnostic belief system but without the oppressive trappings of the Church of Scientology.

All I can say is that no matter how generous and warm hearted their intentions, anyone offering to set up a spin off of the Work would do better to take a break, a very long break from the New Age entrepreneur scene and go into a long course of private therapy with a licensed professional who is trained to work with trauma issues.

For it seems trauma and powerlessness drive many to utilize The Work or set up as healers. If one does not work through ones' personal issues, there is a very high risk one may risk burnout or in the most tragic cases, re-enact patterns of abuse within their new organization--the scenario that led them to depart from their earlier leader.

Abuses can be passed through generations of New Age families, as they can via multiple generations of biological families.

One can only break that cycle by bringing ones powerlessness to full conscious awareness, finding ways to hold and contain the emotions one split off and dissociated from in early childhood.

One cannot accomplish that task by using word games to confuse the mind into supressing and disowning what one has experienced.

For that experience is not merely between the ears. It is embodied.

The adult mind can be conned into denying what one's body has lived with--and still remembers, though that memory is often mute.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2009 11:13PM by corboy.

Corboy, thanks for the excellent post. So much food for thought...

I'll pick out one thing you said:

"One cannot accomplish that task by using word games to confuse the mind into supressing and disowning what one has experienced."

I am reminded of the sad case of Rochelle Laudenslager, former facilitator of The Work, now behind bars.

[[url=http://www.culteducation.com/reference/general/general1011.html]Murder Suspect Claimed Self-Help Plan Helped Her[/url]]

[[url=http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2008/02/laudenslager_to_serve_2040_yea.html]Laudenslager Pleads Guilty to Killing Former Lover[/url]]

I'd like to say a thing or two about "working" with facilitators of Byron Katie's Work.

I will not name any names here. I have already mentioned working with at least one facilitator. There may have been others I've had dealings with. I don't feel comfortable saying more about that at this time.

The thing is, I am not the only one who has had problems with facilitators. So far a couple of others besides me have spoken up about facilitators on this message board. Here is one example from "JB":

Quote
JB
As long as we're collecting names of people who are liberally spreading Byron Katie crapola around I'd like to throw this link out for addition to the long list previously posted.

http://www.kimrosen.net/about.htm

I attended a weekend workshop she facilitated. Basically it was an LGAT type sampler with the usual hypnotic regression to childhood "splits" as the culmination of a long weekend of being prompted to dish out secrets. There was bioenergetic work, repackaged as coreeneregetic work, repackaged again as pathwork. There was a big chunk of Byron Katie turnaround bullshit.

One especially annoying portion of self disclosure: when prompted to share a difficult experience in recent past, the facilitator asserts that any reaction you may have to a toxic personality - fight, flight, freezing in place - is a sign of immaturity. Even asserting yourself is wrong. What works is some sort of BK like "surrender". Sheesh.

I hadn't been to a weekend like this in twenty-five years (a Lifespring event in the Bay Area) so I'd forgotten how much stuff they pack in to a weekend. Also, how similar the format is. If you had told me that I would be doing the whole Lifespring type thing, with a different label, I would have said, "no thanks".

It took me quite some time to "recover" from just this one weekend. Particularly the repeated assertion that our idiosyncratic selves, were primarily coping mechanisms for the split that occurs to all of us as we deal with a set of parents that we are still trying to please, blah, blah, blah. The regression itself was quite painful emotionally, and left me spent for a number of days. Frankly, if I hadn't worked with a competent licensed bioenergetic therapist in the past, I don't think I would have been able to keep my bearings.

Aside from all that, one of the things that bugged me most and left quite a bitter aftertaste was her assertion that all our worldly creative efforts were just "droppings" on the path, compared to our effort to work for god. Now, if I did subscribe to a personal deity, I would think that my worldly creative efforts would be an expression of my relationship to that deity. That aside, here was the big hypocritical elephant in the room. This woman was using her poems and the music composed to recite them as backdrops for the workshop. She even set aside time to enjoy reciting her poems before us. In other words, in my mind, she was leaving quite whopping "droppings" all over our path, while telling us
to devalue ours.

I can't tell you all how grateful I am to have this forum here. I don't post often, but I read many of your messages and derive a lot of support and strength from your contributions.

That's all for now.

Thanks,

JB

(Above quote is from http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?12,12906,59977#msg-59977)

People need to know that facilitators of The Work may have "issues" that can detract from YOUR sessions with them.

Why, your facilitator could be a Rochelle Laudenslager with severe mental problems (see yesterday's post re her above).

Your facilitator could be someone who is primarily motivated by greed - i.e., they're really in it for the money you pay them. Session fees might be substantial, on par with what a licensed psychologist or shrink gets.

Your facilitator might be someone with a big ego who loves to add their own input/stories into what is supposed to be a session about YOU. They might even reveal weird bits of personal information about themselves and then you get to feel icky about it.

Hopefully more people will find the courage to speak up about their experiences with facilitators. I realize that it may not be easy to talk about. For one thing, people might feel rather embarrassed about what has happened. I know that's been true for me.

At any rate, let the buyer be very much aware...

Corboy,

FYI, your mailbox is full!

H

Even though Byron Katie uses literally dozens of the most advanced group persuasion techniques that are available, they still are very afraid of any internal criticism, or freedom of thought.
When some of those who are inside the Byron Katie system simply start to ask QUESTIONS of their own, and engage in freedom of thought, and freedom of speech, that threatens the entire Byron Katie system.

Even though Byron Katie is using such powerful techniques, they only work if people are not AWARE of them. Once a person is aware of the techniques and how they work, and start to use some critical intelligence and analysis, the entire Byron Katie structure collapses like a house of cards.

So yes, they are very afraid in the Byron Katie camp.
They fear critical thinking, like all of these groups, which is why they try to demonize the wonderful human mind.

And they also FEAR other people from the Byron Katie inner circle coming forward and telling the truth of what really goes on backstage and behind the scenes.
So its not enough for them to try and control these folks using the standard methods they have been using.
Now they make people sign onto "agreements" that they will NOT "make statements" that criticize the Work. That is how fragile The so-called Work is, as it cannot be allowed to be analyzed or even criticized.
That is one of the first warning signs of a cultic group, where there is no tolerance for criticism or open inquiry.

So what has Byron Katie done about her own people speaking up about what has gone on behind the scenes?
Byron Katie has now BANNED her own people from making ANY critical statements about The Work, Byron Katie, or any BK facilitator.
What will happen if they do speak up?
They are trying to make people FEARFUL of speaking up with an open mind, or with freedom of thought and speech.
She is installing FEAR.

Their other clauses sound like they are having serious trouble with some of their Facilitators running amok in the world, and hurting people.
But the Byron Katie company has gotten itself into a serious double-bind.
On one hand, they disclaim ANY connection to their "facilitators" or what they do.
And at the same time, now they are telling these people they have to contact Head Office when there are problems?
They can't have it both ways.
So obviously, there is some serious trouble brewing with all of these so-called "facilitators" running amok out there, and trying to deal with serious issues with people, and the terrible fall-out which can happen from that kind of untrained malpractice.

In reality, Byron Katie demands total control of her inner ciricle and "facilitators", and at the same time saying she is not responsible for anything they do?
They are trying to walk along a razors edge, to cover their own butts.

Now her own people will all be very afraid of ever saying even ONE WORD that sounds anything like a question, or criticism of anything to do with Byron Katie.
Why?
Because if they do, and then it gets reported to head office, even in whispers, then that person is finished with the Byron Katie Org. Byron Katie knows if she can stop all criticism before it starts to grow, then she can try to nip it in the bud.

These are all very common and familiar tactics in these types of groups, which Byron Katie has now added to her repertoire of techniques on how to block all internal dissent.
So you will never hear one SINGLE word of critical analysis from any Byron Katie facilitator, or anyone who wants to be accepted in the Byron Katie group.
And some BK people will rat others out, who do say something critical about Byron Katie, to try and gain rewards and attention from Byron Katie, by sending in "reports" that so-and-so said something critical about Byron Katie back at the hotel at a seminar.

The Byron Katie internal Thought Police snitch-line is now open for business.

Quote
Meadow
And furthermore they (yet again) re-adjusted their 'Code of Ethics':

Professional Conduct Agreement
1. I agree to conduct myself in a manner that reflects positively upon The Work, and I will
not engage in conduct or make statements that may negatively affect another facilitator
and/or The Work.
[...]
They sound like a scared and scary bunch!

Quote
The Anticult
The Byron Katie internal Thought Police snitch-line is now open for business.

The "Open Forum" at The Institute For The Work site continues to be closed.

Janaki's information remains online.

When my brother was a detective, he occasionally worked with informants. Sometimes they were a big pain in the ass, but it was worth working with them because they often provided crucial, case-making information. Some really evil people are no longer walking the streets because of them.

"Snitching" can be a good thing.

Quote
ON2 LF

Quote
Meadow
I just found out that within the BK circles the word is going around that some crazy lady from Europe is spreading lies about Katie.

the only crazy lady spreading lies about anything is Katie herself.

I just heard that it is Stephen Mitchell himself who is spreading this message.

The Byron Katie Thought Police internal-snitching stemming from the new Byron Katie policy, needs clarification.

In groups like the Byron Katie group, at a certain point, they forbid members INSIDE the group from criticizing the Leader in ANY way. That has just happened.

Now people inside the Byron Katie group start to watch for members who might criticize the Guru, and then snitch to the Guru or their people, that person ______ said something bad about Byron Katie.

That person is then either kicked out of the group, or demoted, or punished in some way.
This creates a climate of fear and paranoia, where noone will speak out within the group, even in a private conversation, because they don't know if the person from inside the group they are speaking to will report them to the BKI people.
It gets to the point where you cannot say anything to anyone, as you don't know if they will report what you said.

Byron Katie, in her new "Professional Conduct Agreement" has literally forbidden people inside her own system from making any "statements" that could be seen to negatively affect the Byron Katie Work.
And if people inside the BK group, even make these statements in a private conversation after a seminar, they could be snitched on, and then kicked out or demoted.
That is not a good thing, in any way of course. Its a terrible tactic of social control and fear.

That is a common tactic used by these types of groups to literally control everything people say.
People become so afraid that anything they say could get reported, that they cannot say anything critical, or they could have their certification revoked, and be pulled off the website, for example.
Or even worse.

Its a powerful tactic to destroy all criticism and analysis within the group.
It appears the closed BK Open Forum had some minimal criticism in it, and now even that tiny amount of questioning is forbidden.
Every single one of the Byron Katie facilitators will now be worried that if they say ONE WORD about Byron Katie that is not positive, they could be reported by a BK-snitch, and then be removed from the BK referral lists, kicked out of seminars, lose all their BK friends, etc.

Its a powerful tactic of social control, and it works..
Byron Katie and her main people are tightening the screws on their people, and they know exactly how to do it.

The only criticism you will ever hear now are from anonymous sources, or people who have left the Byron Katie group.
Their new "agreement" silences all criticism of Byron Katie and the Work for members.
Byron Katie has officially banned all freedom of thought and speech within the Byron Katie group.
If you speak up, they will kick you out.


And of course Stephen Mitchell would be trying to deflect from everything that Janaki said, by trying the Ad Hominem personal attack, where they try to smear the person, and not deal with the substance of what they are saying.
Stephen Mitchell has been exposed in other email exchanges he has had, as being highly manipulative, and deliberately trying to confuse people.
As already shown, the Byron Katie forum was closed right after someone asked if the format of the Tao book by Stephen Mitchell was copied from that other Tao book.
There are some literary skeletons in that closet that will all come out one day...