Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Blackhat ()
Date: August 12, 2009 07:23PM


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2009 07:40PM by Blackhat.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Blackhat ()
Date: August 12, 2009 07:30PM

Lady Jayne,

You are testimony to the truth! The only other person who has come close to it was He Who Cannot Be Named.....but I will let you on to a little secret...his name started with Al.......

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Offended ()
Date: August 12, 2009 08:21PM

Am I the only one who seems to have a problem with the fact that Brian (AKA-zeuszor) has MASSIVELY disseminated a dossier that includes the following information to complete strangers:

The SSN of my father.
The current address and phone number of my 87 yr old mother.

I mean I believe many on this site are ok with the fact that the dossier includes pertinent information about current JC members such as Blood type, bank account numbers, addresses, phone numbers, etc,

But,,,, are you also aware that he is using this forum to ellicit information (included in his massively distributed files) from opponents of the JCs such as

photographs of the individuals
photographs of their residences
names, ages, birthdates, addresses, phone numbers, etc of children and siblings of ex-Jesus Christians
arrests records
Usernames of MANY of those who post here and who you are suspected of being by him
Property values of property owned by concerned family members of current and ex-JCs

I mean I understand his campaign against the Jesus Christians, but I am at a loss how the property value of a concerned family member of an ex-JC who has opposed the JCs from the start aids Brian's cause?
I am at a loss as to how revealing the SUSPECTED real name of people posting here opposing the JCs aids his cause.
I am at a loss as to how sharing the arrest records of someone opposing the JCs aids his cause.
I am at a loss as to how sharing photographs of innocent children aids his cause.
I am at a loss as to how sharing the educational background of someone who succeeded in retrieving their daughter from the JCs aids his cause.

AND,,,,, I am at a loss how the moderator of this site feels this is acceptable behavior elliciting this personal information from everyone he comes in contact with on this forum, and then spamming that information to various organizations and people he has never met except to PM on the various forums.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Date: August 13, 2009 07:54AM

Dear Offended,

(I presume that you have already shared your "discomfort" about the matters under public discussion, with Brian privately and directly....I will do the same)....

I would agree that once someone has "exited" the cult, they should have the option to remain "involved" or would be aware that David McKay frequently does exactly the same as you allege Brian has (with say, the purposes of threatening the employment of those who "speak up" against him).....hence if I did NOTHING other than simply report what David McKay said, I would be prone to inadvertently revealing the information you complain should not be released....

However I would in principle, agree with you.

You are welcome to contact me via PM if I may be of any help in addressing this matter.....

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Offended ()
Date: August 13, 2009 02:09PM

[...] YES, Brian has been challenged privately by people upset with their personal info being "spread around the world" as he brags on the xJC site after being called out on this. It wasn't until after his bragging session in response to being asked to stop spreading this information that I posted here.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2009 07:35PM by rrmoderator.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Date: August 13, 2009 11:18PM

Dear Offended,

I will convey my own feelings about this to Brian privately......I will have to respectfully disagree with you that "dossiers" about Mckay are "regrettable" per se, however I also am of the opinion, that any wishes for the privacy of personal details of those now external to the world of the McKays should be respected....(and even information on those INTERNAL to the world of the McKays should NOT be brandished willy nilly to all and sundry on casual request)....

In the event of any criminal charges being laid against McKay (the actual route of the unaudited tens of thousands of dollars that the JesusChristians would have received as "cost reimbursements" for the kidney sales they have made, and even through the trash that he writes these days and then flogs to the public might interest a few govt. authorities, say...) then it is likely that witnesses considered relevant to such proceedings would face legal compellablity to publicly reveal any information that they held.

Until such a time though, I certainly, share your discomfort with the release of private information, frequently held in trust.

One matter, that you do not seem to address though Offended (again, in principle, I must emphasize that I agree with you) is where McKay knowingly fabricates concocted "histories", in the belief that those concerned are not in a position to speak up (he has circumvented their access to express their views or is simply blackmailing them into silence)....deliberate lies of Greycell having "locked Sisi up in a basement"...Betty's father "voluntarily" withdrawing legal action against the JC's in Kenya (as I believe that he was threatened never to be able to see his grand son again)....the invented "testimonies" that Joe is being instructed to manafacture against his parents (as they are "systemites" who are threatening the effectiveness of work of the "Kingdom of Heaven" and hence dishonesty towards them "doesn't count" in the so-called long run, does it!).

The specific examples you provide Offended, certainly support the caution you advocate.

In extreme cases, where major miscarriages of justice were to be perpetrated by McKay, I would (reluctantly) still see the "release of (RELEVANT) information" to be fundamental, even where those with whom this information originated, might object to its release....

I (and I think reasonable person) would have to balance the probative value of what they might know with their wishes to remain "anonymous" and "uninvolved".....

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Offended ()
Date: August 13, 2009 11:29PM

Malcolm, two words in your previous post stand out.

RELEVANT and TRUST (private information held in trust)

The information I am complaining about is neither RELEVANT nor information that was conveyed to Brian in TRUST.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2009 11:35PM by rrmoderator.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: August 13, 2009 11:34PM

Everything I have was culled from public-domain sources; anybody with knowledge of databases and some basic research skills could have found all of that data.

I see nothing wrong about delving into DM's background and developing a comprehensive, factual biography of him.

I have made at least eighty cult-ed and religious-studies scholars in my country aware of the JCs, have given my basic JC dossier to all of them, I have distributed all of my research on the JCs across international borders, hundreds of pages of it, I have given this information to Hassan, to RR, aplologetics groups, cult-awareness organizations, to universities, to law enforcement, to journalists, academics, media, medical personnel, concerned relatives, the Jonestown Research Project, you name it.

Further, I have given this information (and more) to people from the BBC, ITV, the Wall Street Journal, the Dallas Morning News, people in France, Canada, England, Australia, India...I mean, it's literally all over the world now.

I have done a great deal to raise general awareness of the danger the JCs represent to the community as a whole, more than anybody else in North America, or maybe even this hemisphere in fact.

In a way, I wish I'd never even heard of the JCs. None of this has directly personally benefited me at all.

Me, I am simply a guy who went "on point" and put myself into the breach for others who were not empowered to speak for themselves. I was the one who agreed to go about all of this non-anonymously. There were and are others working behind me. I was the one who spent hours scanning and posting all of the A/V material for the Visual Archive. I went on Jeremy Kyle in order to stand up to DM and made those episodes available to the public via YouTube.

I have put myself on the line for this matter, and have profited not at all from any of it, in any sense of the word.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Date: August 14, 2009 12:19AM

Dear Offended,

Yes...Those two words DO stand out, don't they,...

I RESPECT the needs of those who are in danger of losing family or friends to McKay,


I will respond to the TRUST place in me by them to help expose Mckay to those considering membership...

(...which was what you meant of course?) As I have said, I certainly agree with you in principle, that those who wish privacy should be afforded it, AND let me say that,

I admire the zeal that Brian may have put into any "dossiers" he has (and as he notes much of it comes from statements already made from others in public) and I will admire Brian even further if he only JUDICIOUSLY releases the said information.....which I believe he will do from now on.

The "contents" of this "secret dossier" are the subject of some wild speculation on the JC site (David's DNA sequence, the chemical strength of Rolands' prescription of "prozac", the CAT scans of Frans' brain (in several desperate attempts to find one) , Jeremys' hand, finger and toe prints(that only just distinguish him from the army of Jeremy clones that the JC's are secretly manufacturing in Kenya), the colour photographs of the birthmarks on Alf's buttocks....and on and on the list goes on!)

You must learn to disregard, a lot of what is trumpeted as "factual knowledge" on the JC site, Offended. A lot of those who are there, are vacuously able to derive some "enjoyment" from the thrill of being able to "bravely" communicate with a "feared cult" order to maximize the impression they make on the site and to emphasize the "importance" of communicating with them, they have learned to fabricate what they know David wants to hear...

.....they are playing on his need to feel "persecuted".

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2009 12:29AM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Date: August 14, 2009 08:23AM

I have "veracity" on the "Chris Butler, Jagad Guru...." (p.283) thread to thank for this item.....
a highly informative and entertainingly presented thread, on the RR forum that I would strongly recommend to others.

"veracity" (quoting someone else) pointed out that;

“Gurus likewise do many things to ensure that their disciples
prime emotional allegiance is toward them. In the realm of sexuality,
the two prevalent ways control is exerted are through promulgating
either celibacy or promiscuity. Although seemingly opposite, both
serve the same function: they minimize the possibilities of people
bonding deeply with each other, thus reducing factors that compete
with the guru for attention
.” (p.92)

Really a useful insight I would say into David McKays "ban" on couples within the JC's....he has seemingly veered from one extreme (accepting the practice of "flirty fishing" while a member of the Children of God....(only his wifes threat to walk out on him, which would have thus prevented him from being able to become a self-made "shepherd", saving his children from a childhood of abuse)..) to the extreme of secretly expecting all those in servitude to him to remain "virgins" devoted to the service of "God" (read McKay) in the army of 144,000.

But, as "veracity" astutely points out.... fact David (and others like him) have NOT really "veered" at all,
.......from the actual intent to isolate and manipulate individuals to their own selfish gain

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