Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: August 10, 2009 12:07AM


I was going to try and find one of the original quotes from David where he talks about the trial only being used to get the Johnsons to pay Reinhard's medcal expenses. Now that they have been paid, it begs the question: why are they pursuing this civil matter?

I am aware fo the fact that there is a forthcoming trial, and anything said on this site may be prejudicial.

However, McKay’s release of cell phone video (said to be from the incident) is a deliberate and calculated abuse of the judicial system. It is, in effect, contempt of court and should be commented on.

This video was not entered into the previous criminal court case as the parties had plead guilty to the assault. Evidence is only presented, if it is necessary to establish guilt.

The public release and particularly its release out of context, is designed to sway public opinion against the Johnsons, and to garner support for the Jesus Christians, in preparation for their forthcoming civil trial.

The public could easily be forgiven for thinking that Reinhard was a gay man that walked past the Johnsons' house and was suddenly attacked.

The actual facts will come out in the trial:

The members of the Jesus Christians were warned that it would not be wise for them to visit the house.

If the Johnsons had Googled Reinhard Zeuner they would they have discovered that he was arrested in the United Kingdom in connection with the kidnapping of Bobby Kelly.

This was the person who was present in their lounge room and wanted to take their son away and to take items of value from the house in order to help fund the cult.

He, a man of large stature, trained by the German Army, and his similarly built accomplice were refusing to leave the house. They outnumbered the more slightly built Jared who was trying to push them out of the house.

This is what the Police Report said: “Reinhard was concerned for the safety of Joe, and resisted being pushed out of the house. He thought they might hold Joe captive and not allow him to become a missionary.”

Things changed when John the stepson arrived to help his stepfather as he was pushing them off his property and yes, Reinhard got a beating.

One wonders how any one of us would react if our parents phoned us to say that two large men were in their house and were refusing to leave.

It is unfortunate that when people are angry and fighting things often get carried away and may use more force than may be necessary. People become “lost in the moment” and parties often regret their actions later on, and are probably shocked when they see their own actions on film after the event.

However, time can not be turned back and we can all be clever in hindsight.

The issue now is what price have the Johnsons already paid for their attempt to save their son from the cult and is further compensation and/or punishment necessary?

* Loss of their son for more than 2 years.

* A mock Trial where supposedly the cult took the punishment for the Johnsons.

* Public humiliation via the subsequent Fox TV News Story that told the story of the trial.

* A Criminal Court case where they plead guilty

* The real possibility of Jared losing his position as a teacher as an assault conviction could have meant his license being cancelled. This would have led to him being no longer able to earning a living in his chosen profession.

* The loss of more than twenty thousands of dollars that was paid for Reinhard’s medical expenses.

* Continued humiliation and abuse of the Johnsons by McKay over the internet and the publishing of their private correspondence. False claims by McKay have included the claim that the Johnsons are engaged in a worldwide conspiracy to kill Jesus Christians.

* Now publication of the cell phone video footage of the end result of the incident that does not fully explain what actually occurred and falsely represents it as a “gay bashing”, again deliberately designed to slander the Johnsons.

Still this is not enough for McKay and we still see him engaged in attempting to use this unfortunate incident (caused by the cult methods of breaking up families) as an opportunity to gain money for his cult. To add insult to injury the Lawyer being used by Reinhard Zeuner has been heavily involved in the Church of Scientology.

Moving to the question of compensation: as an investigation from Private Eyes revealed, Reinhard participated in a 5k race one month after the event. Private Eyes even obtained a photograph of Reinhard at the event, positively beaming and you would be hard pressed to believe he had even been assaulted.

This is probably one of the biggest mistakes that Zeuner made, if he wanted compensation and this will surely go against him. The Jesus Christians probably thought that information would not become public. Joe even signed on at the event using an alias.

Reinhard continued to work for the cult without any problems and in fact remained in America, until he was arrested for overstaying his visa. A matter brought to the public’s attention by myself and Private Eyes and which McKay continually denied had happened.

As has been explained, Reinhard’s medical costs have been paid. This was said by McKay to be one of the original reasons why they pursued the mock trial idea.

Although there are as many reasons given and they appear to change whenever it suits McKay’s agenda.

This case now appears to be similar to some car accidents. When people think they can get money, the neck braces come out. Unfortunately, for Zeuner, he has been caught not wearing the brace!

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: August 10, 2009 06:29AM


A scanned image of the 1993 newsletter report can be found here. Thanks, Kevin.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: August 10, 2009 11:40AM

I think it is important to get the original story (of what happened to RZ at the Johnsons' house that day) back in the public eye and also some of the associated facts, ie Reinhard being in the race, etc. which are now buried in old (RR) posts here.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Blackhat ()
Date: August 10, 2009 07:13PM

Now that I've been banned from the JC Forum, I think it's important that I put forward what I was about to post on the JC Forum. Dave said:

Please don't insult our intelligence by saying that you are not frantically trying to resurrect this damnable lie for the purpose of supporting Sheila and Jared's lie in the court in L.A. You say that "some other time" you will talk about what is wrong with what Sheila instigated. When?
Well, Dave, I was about to paste what I wrote here onto your forum, when I discovered that I had been banned. So I paste it here again for you now:

JC's illegally whipping a volunteer in Kenya

I am not only appalled by Dave organizing for a local Kenyan volunteer to be whipped for a petty stealing, I am also very concerned for the impact upon the Kenyan person who actually was placed in the position of administering the lashes.

The member of the Jesus Christians who administered the lashings in the United States publicity whipping has since left the group, and is clearly disturbed by what happened to him and the way he was coerced to administer this punishment.

We have yet to hear from the person in Kenya who similarly was persuaded to administer the whipping for the Jesus Christians, but I can imagine that the person still carries the burden of what he did under social duress to do what the benefactors in his community asked.

Dave complains that the Quakers treated him badly, but truly, these acts are totally and utterly what Quakers are opposed to. To whip someone, either by way of expressing penitence, or by way of avoiding any Civil action, is totally and utterly not what Quakers are about. That, I believe, is one of the reasons why the Australian Quakers took away Dave's membership. Not because of gossip!!!!!!! He didn't "Out Quaker the Quakers" as he claims, he violated one of the basic principles they have held for centuries!


I also want to say that I have viewed the footage as supplied of the assault on Reinhardt. I am also appalled that people would do this. If you think your son is going to be taken away by a cult, and you know that the cult is dubious, maybe you think that kicking the person who has come from the cult is ok. In my belief, it is not ok. Maybe it is worth the sum asked for. The courts will decide. But viewing that footage, I can understand the person being kicked asking for compensation.

When Ash was first involved with this cult, from what I saw on Australian Story, his parents refrained from this kind of response. And so I support them. They tried every non-violent approach they could find to establish relations with him. It is an example of a way to deal with this problem in a non-violent way.

Personally, I hope Reinhardt gets the appropriate compensation, leaves the Jesus Christians, does good works with the money, and David McKay never gets his hands on a cent of it!

I posted that here and on the XJC Forum before I found the original thread on the JC Forum, where Dave says that he did write an article called "Killers for Christ".

Two things bother me now.

1. Dave denied writing the article until his statement saying that he wrote it was produced from his own forum.

2. Dave maintains that I was pursuing the issue because of what others will make of the fact that he says he wrote it. He now claims that I was doing so because of some kind of support for the kicking of Reinhard.

Given my previous statements about my thoughts on beating up or whipping anyone, I fail to see why he maintains this stance. It seems that his view of the world is an "us and them" view, not one where people can have a moral stance which straddles both sides.


As I have stated over and over, my purpose in pursing the issue was to point out that you will deny things until you are locked into a corner, and yet YOU pursue things about lying, like you did with Kirsty, until you wear the person down.

I just wanted you to taste the red cordial for yourself, and it is clear that you find it impossible to swallow.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: August 10, 2009 07:48PM

"The purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than to win. The law can be used very easily to harass, and enough harassment on somebody who is simply on the thin edge anyway, well knowing that he is not authorized, will generally be sufficient to cause his professional decease. If possible, of course, ruin him utterly."

--L. Ron Hubbard, A Manual on the Dissemination of Material.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2009 07:53PM by zeuszor.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Blackhat ()
Date: August 10, 2009 09:02PM

So now we have an interesting situation.

There is a posting on the JC Forum where Dave claims he wrote an article called "Killers for Christ'.

And Kevin has found an article where the Jesus Christians are talking about the old chestnut of whether you would kill someone who was about to kill many people.

So where is the article Dave claimed he wrote?

Either Dave was lying/mistaken when he claimed that he wrote an article called "Killers for Christ", or it never existed!

Look under your lino tonight, folks, because maybe that article Dave says he wrote is hiding there!

And maybe Dave can find it in his heart to soften his approach to Kirstie for taking her to task so appallingly over a misunderstanding?

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: August 10, 2009 10:43PM

David has put his proverbial foot in his mouth (again), and we can use it against him:

Blackhat Quote: "Either Dave was lying/mistaken when he claimed that he wrote an article called "Killers for Christ", or it never existed!"

Blackhat, there is another alternative, being that he did write the article as he says he did, but that it has been purged due to its controversial nature. Too much "strong meat" for the "babes".

Let's not look a gift horse in the mouth. David says that he wrote an article called, "Killers for Christ".

We know how often he makes a point of saying he's not a liar, how it's always everybody else that lies.

So in this instance, let's give him the benefit of the doubt. Let's believe he did write an article, as he says he did, in black and white, on his forum.

I think this truthful admission of his will make an excellent exhibit for a forthcoming trial.

Thanks David!

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Blackhat ()
Date: August 11, 2009 03:30PM

The index to the JC Forum now hides the threads "Families with serious communication problems" and "Publishing the Truth".

If you go to Google's cache of "welikejesus", the threads are there, but they require you to log in to see them.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Lady Jayne ()
Date: August 12, 2009 08:55AM

Dave will do all he can to cover up what kind of insanity goes on within that cult. I don't understand their attitudes and their almost ghetto way of speaking in their music. It seems they are trying to lure young people using Joe and his flashing gangster rap type hand signals. I watched some of their music and it's like very bad Eminmen. With the exception of Joe who wants to be some sort of thug type. It's really frightening to see their video called They Call Us A Cult Plus.....when they do themselves up as braindead zombies they all look basically as you see them in their regular videos-gaunt-hollow-frightened-blank-dead. What is MacKay DOING to these people? What do they SEE in him? He's not gifted-he's old-worn out-so bitter and twisted and he just emits hate.I have so much distaste for the way they conduct their forum with the banning of people who are simply questioning Dave on his OBVIOUS LIES.

Blackhat you were a star!You really were wonderful and so clearly wayyyyy ahead of MacKay you could SEE it was driving him wild. He is easily upset when questioned and that's why he has his little clones come out swinging but when he has people like PollyGlen, it's not too effective since PollyGlen just dithers back and forth. Friend and Foe of all. I find PollyGlen so very offensive because he is being so chicken. Racing back and forth from MacKay to the good side. He's a complete troll if you ask me and doesn't even much rate reaction. His posts are barley readable. I almost wonder if he has some mental illness himself because he seems to spend so much time defending a man who would have no respect for the likes of PollyGlen, a half and half, who doesn't know where he stands so he falls flat. PollyGlen seems to be so pathetically in need of MacKay's attention yet he's not able to just join up for some reason. He's childlike. Almost like a schoolchild who is bullied by everyone and wants to be loved by someone yet he's such a trolling little brat, you can't help but feel disgusted. I know it sounds unkind but there is nothing kind about a little brat who wants to cause trouble for everyone no matter who gets hurt.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Blackhat ()
Date: August 12, 2009 06:22PM

Dave says

"Would it be okay to say that I was mistaken, Anita?"

[]. ... 5&start=75

Yes Dave, it would. That's the kind of person we are. Are you?

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