You have misrepresented me in your analysis of my postings, but I will refrain from going over that "line by line" for the moment, because, right now;
I (and some Quakers, and all the posters on this forum) are still waiting for your response to all the repeated postings on this forum regarding your whipping of the Kenyan boy, and request an explaination of how this is in line with Quaker beliefs and practices."To continue with the thread of how offensive and racist it was for Dave to whip that Kenyan volunteer, I have to make mention of the human rights conventions it breeches.
Whipping breeches the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948), the International Convention of Civil and Political Rights (1966), and the United Nations Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (1984).
SOURCE: [www.stop-stoning.org] "
"Dave the "Quaker" said:
"Our decision to return to the whip as a form of punishment is actually based on a desire to shorten the period of punishment at the same time that we sharpen the message about punishment. Whips have been used in just about every culture, as a form of punishment, because they inflict a lot of pain without causing much more than superficial and temporary injury to the body.
We have already experimented in a small way with an offender in Kenya, where it is customary for police to routinely flog suspects during interrogations, and where a prison sentence usually includes 25 lashes a day for the first three days of imprisonment. A young man had stolen some things from us and sold them to buy home brewed wine. We offered him the option of receiving five lashes of the whip (and signing a paper to the effect that he had done so willingly, that it was because he had in fact stolen from us, and that he was sorry for his behaviour). He gladly accepting the flogging, which was carried out in the presence of local village representatives.
While it may be "customary" for the police in Kenya to routinely flog suspects, it is hardly the Quaker way to resolve problems. The man obviously has some problems with alcohol dependency, if he feels a need to steal from and hock your personal property. (even though you tell people to consider nothing your own) Do you really think such a dependency can be removed by using a whip? In the West people with alcohol problems are provided with guidance and understanding and taught how to cope with life using safe techniques. Using a whip would only serve to reinforce any sense of shame he inevitably experiences by stealing your personal possessions. It seems a bit odd that you ask him to say he is sorry before whipping him. Would the number of lashes have increased if he did not say sorry? Turning the other cheek in this instance would have been more in line with Quaker ideology, don't you think?"
Apostate says (and I totally share this viewpoint):
'Personally I find the whipping of the Kenyan volunteer to be the most offensive of their actions to this point. To me it represents the racism and arrogance that sits at their core. The action of whipping that Kenyan volunteer is in principle similar to the tale told by Joseph Conrad in his "Heart of Darkness",(published in 1902) and how Marlow finds a man dishing out to the natives in "the horror, the horror" to try to maintain control. Not that David is anywhere near that level... but something about the principle involved which made me think of that book."
He goes on to say:
"The whipping of the volunteer in Kenya is the most serious and least-known least-publicised human criminal action of the Jesus Christians which flies in the face of not only Quaker values, but of "Decent Australian Values" - i.e. "It's Un-Australian"!!!!!! It is the height of arrogance and imagined racial superiority for Dave to order the whipping of that Kenyan and clearly highlights the power imbalance which exists between those inside and those outside his group. He cites the example of a corrupt police force as justification for him doing it when he really should have set a shining example of an alternative way to treat a person suffering from an alcohol dependency, i.e. forgiveness and understanding. Here we have a poor Kenyan who sees and opportunity to work with some rich foreigners, who has at times turned to alcohol to deal with some of life's problems in the impoverished environment in which he lives. Overcome by the urge to drink he steals something from the "Quaker" foreigners only to find himself suddenly facing them in a home grown court case with wierd catch 22 scenarios being offered to him. He has to take a whipping or allow someone he has grown close to take the whipping on his behalf. What to do he must have said to himself. He has had whipping before from the police and knows that he can take it. He looks at his new white freind and thinks to himself it is not right that he gets whipped as that would be shameful to HIM and me. I will take the whipping, as it is (he thinks to himself) "what I deserve". (a questionable thought). He is then asked to sign a peice of paper saying he was taking the whipping "willingly" and has to say "sorry".
Yes, the whipping of the Kenyan volunteer was a racist act by a man who believes he was racially superior to the one he was whipping. It flies in the face of the multi-cultural values of social justice in Australia, America, Great Britain, in fact any country which has outlawed whipping people for crimes. "
Surely, even if you can not face up to repudiating your statement about this, you could at least remove your justification of it from your web site? It is totally offensive (and possibly criminal) on every level imaginable!