Quote
zeuszor
SumYou probably remember me too Fran. I visited you JCs once in Dallas in Spring/Summer 2002 and you all gave me the willies.

Quote
zeuszor
As a whole, you just all seemed to be a pretty pissed off bunch to me. I saw no fruit of the spirit in my brief visit, just judgementalism and anger.

Quote
zeuszor
I remember the Bible study I sat in on was called "No More Mister Nice Guy."

Quote

And you were all skinny and dirty and smelled bad. Call me superficial, but is this the way to bring people to Jesus?

Quote
zeuszor
The Reserved Articles sections state that "We are not trying to be secretive, but we are trying to get people to read the most important articles (those that are freely available) first." Well, my Bible is freely available, so shouldn't any and all Bible studies be so too? That kind of secrecy makes you look real, real suspicious. Come on, you know it's true.

Quote
Xenophone

Quote
zeuszor
Hey Xenophone, spills the beans, man: what are the "private teachings"? The secret Jesus Christian handshakes? :lol:

As for so called "secret handshakes" amongst the JCs, there really aren't many, but I have noticed at least one. This was one that I used to do with another JC there, so I know it exists.

How it works is two JCs would meet in a public/private place after not seeing eachother for a certain amount of time. They would then do what can only be described as a combination between a high-5 and a regular handshake. After this they would probably hug momentarily and then ask eachother a variance of "How's are you?" or "How's it going?". This was usually followed be conversation.

NOTE: Some of them bypass the hand gestures all together and go straight to the hug.

Quote
cultmalleus
Wasting your life Fran working for Dave is sad.

Quote
cultmalleus
Doesnt it make you frustrated that you want to go out and serve the underpriviledged and downtrodden yet so much of your life is wasted on Dave's sensationalism and attempts to gain media attention?

Quote
cultmalleus
You could achieve so much more for Love and God and Humanity outside of the group.

Quote
cultmalleus
This sensationalism is not "preaching the Gospel". Neither are those booklets. How many are actually read? Have you ever done a survey?

Quote
cultmalleus
Neither would he like any evidence about the efficacy of corporal punishment. Read this:[en.wikipedia.org]

Quote
cultmalleus
What happened to the revelation of the "Fall of America"?

Quote
Fran

Quote
cultmalleus


I am not sure if it has been mentioned or not in this thread so far (as I haven't had time to read all the posts in detail yet) but I think a significant point that may have been missed is that Dave disbanded the community over a year ago. We split up into smaller autonomous teams of which Xenophone and his wife was one. So, although you later felt that you wished not to be associated at all with the JCs, I think you can appreciate that you were in fact autonomous for quite some time before that happened.

You mean Dave restructured the community.

Quote
apostate

Quote
cultmalleus
zeusor, I can tell you one of the secret teachings is called "Honest to Whom" which is basically a justification for lying to "systemites" who, really, boils down to anyone who is not in their group. Indeed, it is one of the JC's most fundamental teachings that you must learn to lie to protect and defend the group. They start from the idea that Bible smugglers into Communist China may have to lie to cross the border but end up using this to justify widespread and constant lying by the group to outsiders. Group members always "cover" their leadership and pretend that decisions are by consensus when really decisions are made by Dave wearing down opposition by meetings that can go on practically all night long. Dave has frequently embarked on deception and lying to try and make a media controversy, for just one example, witness "Anita" [www.guardian.co.uk]

The "grievance system" is the way to ensure conformity by Dave enlisting everyone else to peer pressure the odd one out and to enforce starvation ("fasting and prayer") as punishment if they do not conform. Unity and loyalty are absolute imperatives. Intelligent and independant thinking members have eventually left in disgust. Of Dave's 4 children, 3 are completely alienated from him and want nothing to do with him.

His fruit is rotten.

Hey hey hey, Cultmaleus, remember those times the community all sat around writing out bogus job applications to get unemployment benefits, and the leaving behind a wad of signed blank cheques for the treasurer to be able to access the funds while some members were out of the country? I was always a bit curious about the surgical equipment steralizer that turned up in India as it was stolen from Deakin university. Yep "Honest to whom" was a beauty. I know for a fact that Dave would deliberately lie as a way of sowing "misinformation" to the "enemy", i.e. those outside his group.

By the way, Cultmalleus, my understanding is that the grievance system that you and I remember has now been replaced by a panel of "leaders" who make judgements.

Good to hear from you again. We could chin wag for ages... and what better location than a cult busters website. Shine a little light on Dave McKay's nonsense, eh.

I think the one child Dave has left behind in the group is more about her trying to please him and win his favour than anything else. It really is quite sad. Dave does not show love or acceptance to his other kids, as his "fatherhood" towards them is dependent upon them being completely subserviant. What a pity. He is missing out on so much.

Quote
Xenophone

Yeah, my apologies, I should have heard you out. I do remember that Divine authority article.

I personally don't have a problem with the idea of having an anointed leader. Its just that with the JCs they have this divine authority teaching at the same time they mock other churches for not their lack of spirituality because they follow their leaders.