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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: muppet ()
Date: October 07, 2006 04:47AM

Thanks for your understanding and postive feedback Muppet. What you say is true. I can recall the mental angush I went through within the group as I struggled with some of their stuff, and then afterwards when I was discarded as "dead wood", to coin their phraseology. I can recall the struggles my mind went through as I came to accept reality. Such things can be literally physically painful.

It is true that there are no locks on the door of his community, but imagine the scenario of a member who is threatened with expulsion in a developing country where he or she gets to take nothing with them. There is no duty of care in these incidents. People are left to fend for themselves. Dave at these times will work to break up marraiges if one members has "backslidden" into rebellion. He will do this by offering accomodation and support to the one he sees as continuing to be faithful to him. Children become community property with parents being expected to conform with community guidleines on how they should be raised and disciplined.

Anyway, I am going of track a little. I mainly wanted to say thanks for the encouraging words and the support. It is good to be able to air some of this stuff.

Hi Apostate,
DM is duplicitous and very strategic in his recruitment and retention od members. Anyone who retains any sense of self worth on exiting this group is a very strong person. His aim is always to breed dependency on the group and discourage any maverick thinking., so leaving is very painful but staying is worse. You will have witnessed people being reduced to almost infantile states and being unable to support them because of the dire consequences it would lead to. In truth, noone has any say on important matters in the group but D is manipulative and makes it seem as if there sreally is a grievance system that is fair.
Ex members are survivors of an abusive regime. You are very brave to have identified yourself as an ex member and challenge him openly. Meanwhile he has retreated to a forum he has generated and controls himself, because freedom is his enemy.
If he had any conscience he would acknowledge that what he puts pople through is wrong but then as he himself says, he abaqndoned his social conscience a long time ago. Dave knows exactly what he is doing and he knows it is wrong but instead of facing up to it, he has chosen to grab whoever he can find and create a dependency in them that feeds his own need for attention and respect.
Some comments were made about his childhood further up, but on its one, that does not explain his behaviour. Attempts made by his family to change him have failed too, by all accounts, and thise that stayed with him have, become almost as cold as he is. It is incredibly difficult for family members of such leaders to come to terms with the behaviour of their parents. What a lot of suffering he has generated.
Were you in during the young Liverpool lads time? DM speaks so disrespectfully of him.
Here's to freedom Apostate! Keep it real.[/color:9c781fdc9d]

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: apostate ()
Date: October 07, 2006 06:46AM

Quote
muppet

Hi Apostate,
DM is duplicitous and very strategic in his recruitment and retention od members. Anyone who retains any sense of self worth on exiting this group is a very strong person. His aim is always to breed dependency on the group and discourage any maverick thinking., so leaving is very painful but staying is worse. You will have witnessed people being reduced to almost infantile states and being unable to support them because of the dire consequences it would lead to. In truth, noone has any say on important matters in the group but D is manipulative and makes it seem as if there sreally is a grievance system that is fair.
Ex members are survivors of an abusive regime. You are very brave to have identified yourself as an ex member and challenge him openly. Meanwhile he has retreated to a forum he has generated and controls himself, because freedom is his enemy.
If he had any conscience he would acknowledge that what he puts pople through is wrong but then as he himself says, he abaqndoned his social conscience a long time ago. Dave knows exactly what he is doing and he knows it is wrong but instead of facing up to it, he has chosen to grab whoever he can find and create a dependency in them that feeds his own need for attention and respect.
Some comments were made about his childhood further up, but on its one, that does not explain his behaviour. Attempts made by his family to change him have failed too, by all accounts, and thise that stayed with him have, become almost as cold as he is. It is incredibly difficult for family members of such leaders to come to terms with the behaviour of their parents. What a lot of suffering he has generated.
Were you in during the young Liverpool lads time? DM speaks so disrespectfully of him.
Here's to freedom Apostate! Keep it real.[/color:6c38694c28]

Hi Muppet. No I was not in the JC's when the Liverpool lad saga was happening. I was out by that time, but I was aware of it. I found it interesting listening to Fran's story of events. He has become as slippery as Dave. Fran said that he never told Liverpool lads mother the he was no longer her son, all he said was "he's a child of god". Duh.. how else was she supposed to interpret that.

I have checked out his forum. It is very notable that he dominates the entire forum having the last word on practically every topic. I note that there were a few people who disgreed with him, but they ended up bailing out when Dave started to accuse them of working together against him. It is a typical tactic of Dave to surround those who would criticise him with accusations to deflect what is being said. In that way he cons his followers into thinking he is being persecuted. Now his "forum" is little more than a reflection of his community, i.e. total agreeance, with all his followers rallying around him.

Regarding seeing people reduced to infantile states, yes, I did see that. From my perspective it seems to be a continual cycle of abuse with such members, except that those being abused end up apologising to the abuser for making him angry or needing to "discipline" them.

He has generated so much suffering in people. He has a wake of destruction behind him. Going by his past behavior and record of retaining people, the majority of his followers currently with him will they themselves be discarded as failing to live up to his unrealistic expectations. Some of them will have given up their kidneys, or taken a whipping for someone else in some delusional scheme of "Christian" justice. Left to themselves none of these individuals would have done this, and he has the audacity to say that there is no peer pressure involved. He says this, while using twisted Bible verses to back such actions; i.e. "he who has two should give to those who have none".

Thanks for your encouragement Muppet. Were you in the JC's at all?

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: apostate ()
Date: October 08, 2006 02:49PM

The quote below is taken from the Jesus Christian forum.

Quote

Not much power left on my computer, so I'll make this brief. We've just finished the trial in Long Beach and are celebrating a mini-escape at a fast food restaurant a few miles north of there.

Joe, Jeremy, Cherry, and Dave took a total of 60 stripes from the whip on behalf of the Johnson family, who all refused to attend the trial, but then turned up outside when we tried to leave the school hall where it was held. The police were called, and Fox News filmed the fracas that ensued.

In the end, the police kept the family and their friends at the school while the rest of us made our getaway in the four motor homes that we live in here.

The entire trial was filmed by Fox News, and will probably feature in a half-hour special nationwide in November.

Despite disappointment with the family, the spirit in the community is high at the moment. The lashes were very painful at the time, but the pain quickly went away. We have some impressive welts, but very little discomfort. Reinhard is like a new man, as he has left it all behind him now. Sadly, Joe is very disillusioned with his family, but he says that it has probably helped to galvanise his commitment to single-mindedly serving God.

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: cultmalleus ()
Date: October 08, 2006 11:06PM

I wonder how righteous they are feeling now.

What's next?

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: muppet ()
Date: October 09, 2006 06:19AM

Quote
apostate
The quote below is taken from the Jesus Christian forum.

Quote

Not much power left on my computer, so I'll make this brief. We've just finished the trial in Long Beach and are celebrating a mini-escape at a fast food restaurant a few miles north of there.

Joe, Jeremy, Cherry, and Dave took a total of 60 stripes from the whip on behalf of the Johnson family, who all refused to attend the trial, but then turned up outside when we tried to leave the school hall where it was held. The police were called, and Fox News filmed the fracas that ensued.

In the end, the police kept the family and their friends at the school while the rest of us made our getaway in the four motor homes that we live in here.

The entire trial was filmed by Fox News, and will probably feature in a half-hour special nationwide in November.

Despite disappointment with the family, the spirit in the community is high at the moment. The lashes were very painful at the time, but the pain quickly went away. We have some impressive welts, but very little discomfort. Reinhard is like a new man, as he has left it all behind him now. Sadly, Joe is very disillusioned with his family, but he says that it has probably helped to galvanise his commitment to single-mindedly serving God.
[/quote


The key point in Dave's message is that Joe is now very disillusioned with his family and now his commitment to serve Dave is galvanised. Dave's methods are becoming more and more extreme but he never had any intention of risking the loss of a recruit or a soul. The information circulated is that he gave the family less that half an hours notice of the location of the trial. This meant that they did not stand a chance of getting there on time. Dave engineered this, in the same way that he engineers everything, to his advantage.

The purpose of the trial was twofold from the start.

1. To sever the links that Joe retained to his family

2, To get more media coverage.

In the last few weeks Dave has become consumed by comments made about him by Rick Ross and other cult experts. It's true. To silence them he took some lashes himself.


I wonder if the authorities in Australia realise one of their 'disabled ' clients and carers got themselves flogged today?

Apostate, how were family relations when you were in? Is there any way that the Derryn H program could be made available on here?

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: muppet ()
Date: October 09, 2006 07:11AM

Quote
apostate

Thanks for your encouragement Muppet. Were you in the JC's at all?


No probs selah Apostate.

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: apostate ()
Date: October 09, 2006 12:25PM

:lol:

Good one

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: apostate ()
Date: October 09, 2006 12:37PM

Quote
muppet
I wonder if the authorities in Australia realise one of their 'disabled ' clients and carers got themselves flogged today?

Apostate, how were family relations when you were in? Is there any way that the Derryn H program could be made available on here?

I doubt they do realise one of their "disabled" clients took a flogging today. I am sure Dave would not tell them.

Family relations when I was in the JC's were strained as Dave tried to put bad motivations onto my parents. I do not know if a Derryn H program could be made available on here. I do not have access to it anyway. According to Dave Fox news will be running a story shortly on the whipping they gave each other.

What struck me about the court case was the coldness Dave had about phoning the mother of one of the people taking the punishment so that she could hear the court case taking place over the phone. I find that especially disturbing... kinda sick! How would any parent respond to such a phone call. It is quite obvious they would be livid, but Dave interprets that sort of reaction as heavy "conviction" resulting from the truth and "love" of what he is doing. He has chosen to ignore real love and concern a parent has for a child. I guess that is understandable considering he has virtually abandoned his own children and grandchildren.

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: muppet ()
Date: October 10, 2006 07:21AM

[quakers.org.au]


Some tame contributions to the forum here. He knows exactly what he is doing,

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: muppet ()
Date: October 10, 2006 07:27AM

Apostate, were you in during the split? and how dod Gary, Sherry and Kevin leave?

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