No, dwest, for my own reasons I don't want to start such a thread myself. You, of course, are welcome to do so. I'd rather just focus on the JCs, pretty much stick to this one thread, maybe contribute to one or two others from time to time.

And you seem to have misunderstood something, dwest. I myself was never a member of the JCs. I nearly joined them and once even went for a trial week, but (long story short) they creeped me out and I left right away. This was in the spring of 2002, and I have tracked them ever since.

It would be good if all the personalities and egos and factional fighting were kept out of this and we just concentrated on DM and the cult, but I guess that isn't going to happen, as humans are humans...with all their faults.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2010 08:50AM by zeuszor.

To "dsm"

I am the operator of the three sites mentioned in your recent post. I conducted the interview with David McKay of Jesus Christians in 2005. I also publish the blogs "Pine River World News" and "IntelTrends" that you referenced.

The purpose of my website and blogs are to publicize alternative viewpoints. For example, during Jesus Christians' ordeal in Kenya (the subject of my 2005 interview) the media was not reporting the JC side of the story. I therefore undertook an interview with David McKay so that readers would have an opportunity to hear his version of events. Similarly, Pine River World News shares alternative perspectives on current events and foreign policy. You are indeed correct that my IntelTrends blog republishes selected mujahideen statements (including some issued by the Taliban) but this is in addition to regular news reporting. (Basically, the decision to repost some Taliban statements is the result of major news sources quoting only one or two sentences of a lengthy statement - and then presenting those words "out of context" thereby misleading the audience as to what was stated.) I believe that the public should have access to the complete text in order to form an accurate opinion.

The fact that I conducted an interview with David McKay on one website -- and post differing viewpoints on other sites, in no way implies that Mr McKay or Jesus Christians is in any way connected with 'terrorism' or mujahideen activities. This would be like saying that because Fox News carried a story about the Pope -- followed by a story about the BP oil spill, that the Pope is somehow connected to BP's spill. You're reading too much into it.

To set the record straight, I am aware of no Jesus Christians' involvement in any activity other than promoting their religious views. Any perceived implication to the contrary is a misunderstanding.

The experiences that anyone may have had with the Twelve Tribes (while another thread may not be started altogether, I thank those concerned for sharing some of their experiences here,) are likely to have some commonalities with those who have been "in" and "out" of the JesusChristians or other cults.....the manipulation of someones' aspirations, progressive isolation from sources that might cause then to question the "information" they are being fed, the presentation of a succession of "false dilemmas" that persuade someone to act in a fashion that they would not otherwise choose...

''Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad''. (Matthew 12:33 )

[www.jesuschristians.com]

Of course I DO so like the next verse....."O generation of vipers, how can ye being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.."....(Perhaps Simon could address this in his next little effort...!)

Hence we can reliably assert that when David, deliberately orchestrates smear campaigns (waged against say David Lowe or Bettys Father in Nigeria, Fred Ngogre), fabricates charges against those who have dared to stand up to him (the gross accusations of "attempted murder" against Joe Johnsons" parents....the vexatious claims that Bobby Kelly's grandmother simply "over-reacted" when the smiling Jesus Christians refused to provide the location of her grandson, on demand); When David routinely castigates his critics as "personally inadequate" in the hope that this will circumvent consideration of his behaviour and even "justify" his illegal activity....say when he physically withheld the passport and other documents of his son Gary in India(once it was clear he had opted to leave), or when he defrauded his son Kevin of the thousands of dollars held in the accounts by the community in Aust.)....and deliberately poisons the relationships that those in his servitude might have with those external to his organization (intercepted mail, no right to private communication, (naturally enough, public denial of these practises) behind "closed doors" the routine ridicule of those who are not members as soul dead "systemites") ,

We can RELIABLY then on the basis of Christs' teachings assert the the "bad fruit" David has produced, is producing, (and looks like continuing to produce) is evidence that he is nothing less than "evil"....



(Simple) Simon here reproducing the effluent he has faithfully been bottle fed by David, since his "rebirth" as a JesusChristian....


...Creating doubt in someone's mind that they are following God "enough"....

...(at first ever so discreetly) subliminally postulating the Jesus Christians as the correct "response" in faithful service

(once someone starts questioning themself) progressively, condemning as "inadequate", any alternatives to servitude to McKay


Hmm..very ho hum effort here Simon!.....doesn't God forsaken McKay have any NEW tricks in his bag, for you to perform??



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2010 10:05AM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

What was it that Simon wrote, that you are referring to, Mal?

The link is (hopefully!) to a new article in the teachings thread of the JesusChristians home page,

titled "Choose your tree"

(umm....to piss on, perhaps?)

submitted on the 15th June this year, by one purported "Simon"....

...[www.jesuschristians.com]....



(Are you able to open this?)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2010 10:15AM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

Here it is:

[www.jesus-teachings.com]

''Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad''. (Matthew 12:33 )

In Revelation 3:15 , a similar thought is expressed: ''Because thou art neither hot nor cold, I will spew you out of my mouth''. What God wants us to do is decide who we are. Are we on fire for God walking in the light of the truth, or are we hiding in the cool night of darkness? All of the double-mindedness of being unsure of who we are (Jame 1:8) only serves to hinder the work of God through us.

In Matthew 12:32 , Jesus says all manner of sins can be forgiven, except for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. He then goes on to say the verse above about the tree and its fruit. What is the connection?

I believe Jesus was trying to get people to see through the devil's condemnation, which keeps us from becoming what God wants us to be. Put simply, we all have a choice what 'tree' we will be, and what 'fruit' will be shown in our lives. The devil can condemn us, telling us how terrible we are, that we will always make mistakes, that we can't change etc., but the truth is that we CAN change if we accept the love and forgiveness that comes from God's spirit. While we continue to listen to the lies of the devil, we continue to block God from helping us, and the fruit of such action can only be negative. We CAN change... at any moment. It just takes a willingness to admit our sins, to pray for forgiveness and to pray for the strength to change; then just set about trying to change.

It is almost like the Holy Spirit is standing at our door knocking, but we are inside saying, ''I would open it to you, but I'm so terrible, I want to open it, but I'm afraid I will mess up, I don't know if I can change''. How long will God continue to knock on our door, if this is the defeatist reception he gets? I don't know where God draws the line with regard to blasphemy against the holy spirit, but if one dies with this attitude towards God, an attitude of not listening to God's spirit convicting and encouraging change in ones heart, in not accepting his deep and eternal love and forgiveness for us, then maybe that is where the line is drawn? Of course, the longer we go without accepting God's correction and assistance in changing, the harder opening the door is likely to get, as we allow ourselves to get further sucked into the lies and deceit of the devil.

Do you have these negative thoughts, where you question whether you can change? Jesus says choose...either accept the correction and guidance of God's Holy Spirit and try to change, or reject it. Make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad. But don't fall for the lie that calling yourself a worthless sinner is good enough in itself. There is a tree out there that you need to climb up into. You'll find God's grace up in that tree, but you'll also find the fruits of his spirit popping up in your life as you yield to him in obedience. The longer you stay in defeatist indecision, the more likely that you will be in for a shock when he decides enough is enough, and spews you out of his mouth.

Mal: your inbox is full and I can send you no PMs. Make room please?

Yes that's it!

Do you have these negative thoughts,

(No I don't! I'm positively sure that David McKay is one of the "flase teachers" in the last days, that scripture warns us about...!)

where you question whether you can change?

(....I don't need to even ask myself such a question....it is a probing lie to cause me to doubt myself and then become vulnerable to the predation of David McKay....Simon though needs to aks himself if he can "change" sufficiently that he'd then have enough guts to be able to question his worship of David....regrettably I doubt that he lacks the courage to even be able to consider the question....in desperation, he just "represses" such thoughts as "the influence of the Devil".....

Jesus says choose....

(Absolutely!....Choose service to Christ....not the cowardly life of snivelling service to that pathetic old goat McKay (telling you that "selling" him is the "Great Commission"....What a God-forsaken lie!!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2010 10:33AM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

"Room" and board...now available!

Yeah, the bottom line is that most (not all, but most) of the JCs, judging by their postings, are not really all that bright.

As you can tell, I'm pessimistic about them. If, for example, one of the fastest growing religions in the world, Mormonism, still continues to convince people that the fraudulent and absurd Book of Mormon is actually a holy book, then there will always be idiots somewhere who will come to believe that David Berg was actually a prophet, and that David McKay is actually an apostle.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2010 10:39AM by zeuszor.