Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
private eyes
()
Date: June 14, 2007 12:51PM
Never to let the facts get in the way of a good story, Dave's putting his own spin on posts submitted to this site over the last few days. You can read them on his site under the section, Rick Ross invites lies and slander.
It supports what I said the other day, that Dave's delights into using his writing skills against people. He's turned gaining evidence (something he's encouraged people to do for years) into murder.
Quote: "these guys are not going to be happy until I am dead..." and later. "they have murder in their hearts.
Well I certaintly will go on the record as saying I neither want to see Dave or his followers dead and in particular murdered. It would be true to say, his critics are doing more to try to keep his followers alive then he is.
Dave's concerned about people going through his rubbish bin (funny he encourages his followers to go into others) and he's worried that people might talk to his bank manager. Well if Teflon Dave is worried about that, maybe there is something to be found?
It supports what I said the other day, that Dave's delights into using his writing skills against people. He's turned gaining evidence (something he's encouraged people to do for years) into murder.
Quote: "these guys are not going to be happy until I am dead..." and later. "they have murder in their hearts.
Well I certaintly will go on the record as saying I neither want to see Dave or his followers dead and in particular murdered. It would be true to say, his critics are doing more to try to keep his followers alive then he is.
Dave's concerned about people going through his rubbish bin (funny he encourages his followers to go into others) and he's worried that people might talk to his bank manager. Well if Teflon Dave is worried about that, maybe there is something to be found?
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
oiseaux
()
Date: June 14, 2007 02:01PM
I just received an email from an anonymous ex-member of the JCs that guided me to this forum posting. I'm a Quaker and was not aware of what the JCs are about. I've not read all 76 pages of this topic, but I have read enough to be very saddened by what Dave is doing. I'm even sadder that he has received financial support from our organisation. We are not a rich organisation and we carefully choose where we do spend our money, so I'm not sure how this has happened.
Rest assured that I'll do what I can to find out more about this group and encourage other Quakers to do the same.
Rest assured that I'll do what I can to find out more about this group and encourage other Quakers to do the same.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: June 14, 2007 03:21PM
Quote
ashwynQuote
I assume that you are saying here that people should be free to spread as many lies as they want, but never free to retract them. Sounds like a liberty that could cause more hurt than reconciliation to me.
And if someone wants to take back things that they have admitted are hurtful to others, why would you assume that this could only happen as the result of 'bullying'.
Reconciliation entails recognition and acknowledgement of damage done. Dave has NEVER to my knowledge recognised or acknowledged any damage he has done to any person. He has a wake of destruction behind him. He has hurt many people and families through his constant false accusations, lies and bullying tactics.
I took back certain things I have said about Dave on this forum because he threatened his own child's reputation and career if I did not. That is an example of how bullying can cause someone take something back.
Why do you assume that taking something back could not be the result of Dave's bully boy tactics?
Do you like being in a community where the apostle has a little chuckle at someone referring to your mother as "Satan's whore" Ash? Is that what you are part of now?
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
ashwyn
()
Date: June 14, 2007 04:54PM
Quote
apostate
Reconciliation entails recognition and acknowledgement of damage done. Dave has NEVER to my knowledge recognised or acknowledged any damage he has done to any person. He has a wake of destruction behind him. He has hurt many people and families through his constant false accusations, lies and bullying tactics.
I took back certain things I have said about Dave on this forum because he threatened his own child's reputation and career if I did not. That is an example of how bullying can cause someone take something back.
Why do you assume that taking something back could not be the result of Dave's bully boy tactics?
Au contraire my dear friend, I never did anything of the sort. What I did was question your assumption that it could ONLY come from that.
Your answer, and in particular the fact that you have completely ignored the real issue (whether the comments in question are false/hurtful or not) is very telling. Don't try to lecture people on how to reconcile if you are only interested in creating division yourself.
Quote
apostate
Do you like being in a community where the apostle has a little chuckle at someone referring to your mother as "Satan's whore" Ash? Is that what you are part of now?
Craig, do you enjoy being part of a community that has referred to Dave as a paedophile, 'rockspider', 'endtime wanking virgin army apostle, appropriately annointed in his own seminal fluid', etc...?
Why try and damn Dave because he lightly chided someone who wrote offensive things on our forum? If you were offended, there was nothing stopping you from replying to Al's post on our forum yourself. What you did instead, was to document it as another piece of 'evidence' to be used in your hate campaign against Dave.
No matter how many times you tell yourself your actions are loving, I'm afraid it is painfully obvious to an outside observer, that bitterness is driving your actions in this scenario.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: June 14, 2007 05:23PM
ashwhyn:
Dave McKay is probably the best example of "bitterness" that you should focus on.
McKay is bitter about followers that have left him.
McKay is bitter about churches that have rejected his biblical exegesis and won't support him.
McKay is bitter about his children that have left his group.
McKay is bitter about the many times the media have seen through him and his efforts to manipulate news reports to gain attention has backfired.
Dave McKay is a very bitter man.
If you really hope to reconcile with your parents stop your dependency upon McKay and get on with your life as an independent adult.
Take some time (a few weeks) to visit with your parents alone, without McKay or any of his followers shadowing you.
See how long you can be away from the McKay group to objectively demonstrate that you are not "brainwashed" and in control of your own mind.
Dave McKay is probably the best example of "bitterness" that you should focus on.
McKay is bitter about followers that have left him.
McKay is bitter about churches that have rejected his biblical exegesis and won't support him.
McKay is bitter about his children that have left his group.
McKay is bitter about the many times the media have seen through him and his efforts to manipulate news reports to gain attention has backfired.
Dave McKay is a very bitter man.
If you really hope to reconcile with your parents stop your dependency upon McKay and get on with your life as an independent adult.
Take some time (a few weeks) to visit with your parents alone, without McKay or any of his followers shadowing you.
See how long you can be away from the McKay group to objectively demonstrate that you are not "brainwashed" and in control of your own mind.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: June 14, 2007 05:37PM
LotusTheHandmaiden:
Please stop ranting.
The topic of this thread is not all churches everywhere and religion generally, but one very small group led by Dave McKay.
The point is that many people (former Jesus Christians, concerned families, journalists and others) question what Dave McKay is really all about.
And you have completely failed to address that subject, other than to say, "I dont believe Dave McKay is a bad man."
However, a great many people include Dave McKay as one of the "bad men and false prophets out there" that you acknowledge exist.
McKay essentially lives off of his followers and has not held down a real job in a long time. And he has hurt many individuals and families (including his own) through his career as a purported "cult leader."
Jesus did teach love, but he also taught judgement and warned against those who would come in his name, but whom he would not know.
Remember, the biblical analogy of a "wolf in sheep's clothing"?
That is exactly what many people think of Dave McKay is.
Please try ot stay on topic.
Please stop ranting.
The topic of this thread is not all churches everywhere and religion generally, but one very small group led by Dave McKay.
The point is that many people (former Jesus Christians, concerned families, journalists and others) question what Dave McKay is really all about.
And you have completely failed to address that subject, other than to say, "I dont believe Dave McKay is a bad man."
However, a great many people include Dave McKay as one of the "bad men and false prophets out there" that you acknowledge exist.
McKay essentially lives off of his followers and has not held down a real job in a long time. And he has hurt many individuals and families (including his own) through his career as a purported "cult leader."
Jesus did teach love, but he also taught judgement and warned against those who would come in his name, but whom he would not know.
Remember, the biblical analogy of a "wolf in sheep's clothing"?
That is exactly what many people think of Dave McKay is.
Please try ot stay on topic.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
ashwyn
()
Date: June 14, 2007 06:34PM
Quote
rrmoderator
Take some time (a few weeks) to visit with your parents alone, without McKay or any of his followers shadowing you.
See how long you can be away from the McKay group to objectively demonstrate that you are not "brainwashed" and in control of your own mind.
Hi Rick,
Just a question because I am curious, has anyone ever followed your advice to take some time away from the group, and then gone back to rejoin?
If that has ever occurred, did you feel that they had taken enough time away, and objectively demonstrated that they were not 'brainwashed'?
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: June 14, 2007 06:59PM
ashwhyn:
Most people walk away from groups called "cults" on their own.
Some people have left cults and returned, often finding it hard to adjust to the outside world, or missing relationships they had inside the group.
Many more leave and never come back.
Perhaps the best test regarding claims about "cult brainwashing" and excessive dependence upon cult leaders is for a group member to leave for awhile and attempt to function without that influence.
Most cult members when asked to do this will refuse and offer some excuse, insisting that it is not necessary.
However, this response only further illustrates their dependency and/or the control of the group.
Most people walk away from groups called "cults" on their own.
Some people have left cults and returned, often finding it hard to adjust to the outside world, or missing relationships they had inside the group.
Many more leave and never come back.
Perhaps the best test regarding claims about "cult brainwashing" and excessive dependence upon cult leaders is for a group member to leave for awhile and attempt to function without that influence.
Most cult members when asked to do this will refuse and offer some excuse, insisting that it is not necessary.
However, this response only further illustrates their dependency and/or the control of the group.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: June 14, 2007 08:56PM
Quote
private eyes
Jon Ronson has his own website, Jon Ronson.com. I guess you could email him and ask him how you could obtain a copy.
I have, but nobody ever replies.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
cinderella
()
Date: June 14, 2007 09:28PM
Heard about this site sometime back when a member of my family joined the Jesus Christians,never took time to visit it till now.Now my sister is back wit us,and has been having the most difficult time dealing with self esteem issues,confidence n most of all relating with anyone.She says she only feels comfortable in the group....and I tell her that kind of dependancy is wrong.She is having a very difficult time getting back to normal and though she doesn't admit it I see her struggle with it everyday.She is closed,doesn't have friends and only leaves the house after a lot of coercing.She is the very opposite of who she was before she met the Jesus Christians.We are all getting worried about her and am asking if there are any suggestions that you can give me to help us help her be normal again.
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