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Re: Universal medicine
Date: June 15, 2012 08:55PM

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Eric Dobbs
Hi Herbert, I totally agree with you, I am incredulous that someone is allowed to subject a child to this .Surely this should be game,set and match for our tennis coach !!! -Eric

This is comic gold, sorry, I know this isn't a laughing matter but credit where credit's due, that is a good one liner.

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Re: Universal medicine
Date: June 15, 2012 09:02PM

Guys on another note, not being petty but can we start getting the quotes right and the copy and pastes and the use of close and open brackets on HTML this topic is tricky enough, but it's actually getting difficult to understand who is quoting who and who is saying what with responses going above and below quotes, people answering within others' quotes, sort it out people, let's agree quote using the quote link, comments below quotes and no changes to quotes within quotation marks, if in doubt use the preview tool.
Peace out

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Re: Universal medicine
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: June 15, 2012 09:05PM

Under Eating and Food Behaviors.

For educational purposes, here are links to to experiment by Ancel Keyes done during World War II.

An article about anorexia notes that people who have been restricting food may feel full and bloated when eating -- giving a misleading perception that they can survive on less food!

[www.google.com]

Though referred to as a the Minnesota Starvation Experiment, subjects during this experiment were eating 1100 to 1500 calories per day.

It has yielded useful information for physicians treating an important group of people who under eat and live long term in total calorie restriction--anoretics.

The rapid and substantial weight loss reported by some friends and spouses of UM devotees does indeed suggest that the UM diet if followed in all its rigor may perhaps, perhaps, elicit a similar state of mind.

Obsession with food. This can be aggravated if it is linked to a cosmology, and if the food rules keep changing. I will quote this in full.

Persons involved with UM devotees can read through this and see if anything here is relevant.

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Ansel Keys’s Minnesota [Semi] Starvation Study


Introduction
The biological reality of our weights and weight control, and the effects of dieting, were clinically demonstrated more than 50 years ago in what remains the definitive research on the subject. The findings in this famous study, revolutionary at the time, have been replicated in the most precise, complicated metabolic studies of food intake behavior, energy expenditure and the biochemistry of fat conducted by the country’s top obesity researchers.

This classic study made the most important contributions to our understanding of dieting, yet surprisingly few consumers today have ever heard of it. It was led by one of the world’s most renowned scientists, Ancel Benjamin Keys, Ph.D., popularly known for inventing K-rations — those indestructible transportable foodstuffs of white crackers, greasy sausage, chocolate and candy — that kept our soldiers alive during World War II.

In the 1940s, when starvation was widespread throughout war-torn Europe, little was known about the effects of human starvation or how to best refeed people who’d suffered from such deprivations. Dr. Keys led the first scientific study of calorie restrictions, at the Laboratory of Physiological Hygiene at the University of Minnesota, for the War Department. The researchers wanted to understand the medical needs facing millions of starving war victims and how best to renourish and rehabilitate them to health after the war. Their study was known as the Minnesota Starvation Study and the results were published in the legendary two-volume, Biology of Human Starvation (Minneapolis: University of Minneapolis, 1950).

The study itself was so comprehensive and intense, however, that even Dr. Keys admitted no other human experiment quite like it will ever be done again because, given what we now know, it would be seen as too cruel and life-threatening. While the degree of suffering the participants underwent would violate what is seen as the ethical rights for human research subjects today, in one respect this study was different from obesity and weight loss research done today. These men were not volunteering because they felt they needed to lose weight for fear that their own lives were endangered, nor were the study authors motivated by personal gain or selling a weight loss program.

The experiment — the starvation syndrome
The 40 young male participants were carefully selected among hundreds of volunteers for being especially psychologically and socially well-adjusted, good-humored, motivated, well-educated, active and healthy.

They were put on calorie-restrictive diets of about 1,600 calorie/day, meant to reflect that experienced in war-torn regions, for 3 months. They dieted to lose 2.5 pounds a week to lose 25% of their natural body weight. The calories were more generous than many weight loss diets prescribe today!

What this study was actually studying, of course, was dieting and restrictive eating — our bodies can’t tell the difference if they’re being semi-starved involuntarily like war victims or voluntarily. During the 3-month nutritional rehabilitation period after the diet, the men were randomly assigned to various nutritional regimens, with differing levels of calories, proteins and vitamins. The men lived at the lab and everything they ate and did was closely monitored, as was their health with a battery of tests. Daily exercise was walking about 3 miles a day.

Physcial effects from the semi-starvation
As the men lost weight, their physical endurance dropped by half, their strength about 10%, and their reflexes became sluggish — with the men initially the most fit showing the greatest deterioration, according to Dr. Keys. The men’s resting metabolic rates declined by 40%, their heart volume shrank about 20%, their pulses slowed and their body temperatures dropped.

They complained of feeling cold, tired and hungry; having trouble concentrating; of impaired judgment and comprehension; dizzy spells; visual disturbances; ringing in their ears; tingling and numbing of their extremities; stomach aches, body aches and headaches; trouble sleeping; hair thinning; and their skin growing dry and thin. Their sexual function and testes size were reduced and they lost all interest in sex. They had every physical indication of accelerated aging.

Psychological effects from the semi-starvation
But the psychological changes that were brought on by dieting, even among these robust men with only moderate calorie restrictions, were the most profound and unexpected.

So much so that Dr. Keys called it “semistarvation neurosis.” The men became nervous, anxious, apathetic, withdrawn, impatient, self-critical with distorted body images and even feeling overweight, moody, emotional and depressed. A few even mutilated themselves, one chopping off three fingers in stress. They lost their ambition and feelings of adequacy, and their cultural and academic interests narrowed.

They neglected their appearance, became loners and their social and family relationships suffered. They lost their senses of humor, love and compassion. Instead, they became obsessed with food, thinking, talking and reading about it constantly; developed weird eating rituals; began hoarding things; consumed vast amounts of coffee and tea; and chewed gum incessantly (as many as 40 packages a day). Binge eating episodes also became a problem as some of the men were unable to continue to restrict their eating in their hunger.

The aftermath
The last part of the Minnesota Starvation Study revealed perhaps the most important effects. When the men were allowed to eat ad libitum again, they had insatiable appetites, yet never felt full. Even five months later, some continued to have dysfunctional eating, although most were finally regaining some normalization of their eating. As they regained their weights, their suppressed metabolism and energy levels returned, although even three months after ending the diet none of the men had yet regained their former physical capacity, noted Dr. Keys.

While it seemed the men were “overeating,” Dr. Keys discovered that their bodies actually needed inordinate amount of calories for their tissues to be rebuilt:

Our experiments have shown that in an adult man no appreciable rehabilitation can take place on a diet of 2,000 calories a day. The proper level is more like 4,000 kcal daily for some months. The character of the rehabilitation diet is important also, but unless calories are abundant, then extra proteins, vitamins and minerals are of little value

In other words, they weren’t really “overeating,” it was a biological, normal effect of hunger and weight loss. The men regained their original weights plus 10%. The regained weight was disproportionally fat, and their lean body mass recovered much more slowly.

With unlimited food and unrestricted eating, their weights plateaued and finally, about 9 months later, most had naturally returned to their initial weights without trying — giving scientists one of the first demonstrations that each body has a natural, genetic set point, whether it be fat or thin.

I have italicized or underlined changes described by persons who live with or have lived with or observed UM devotees.

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Starvation Mode And Anorexia NervosaHow Does Starvation Affect The Body?
Starvation mode triggers complex changes in the body and mind. Understanding the effects of starvation, and how the body responds is critical in the treatment of anorexia and other eating disorders.

Most of us are probably aware that the term starvation mode refers to the body's response to long periods of malnutrition.

It can be thought of as a kind of protection mechanism -- protecting vital organs such as the heart and the brain from atrophy (shrinkage) for as long as possible.

With self starvation or severe malnutrition in anorexia nervosa, the body will eventually burn its fat reserves for energy.

An added complication is that muscle mass begins to deteriorate, and creates a condition known as muscle atrophy.

But, there's more...

Starvation Mode - Understanding Starvation Symptoms
Starvation Mode Photo - T.Schmidt

What are starvation symptoms?

In studies at the University Of Wisconsin-Madison (Carlson, 2001), it was discovered that several anorexic behaviors -- such as food obsessions (or phobias), exercise addiction, and emotional issues -- are not a result of psychiatric conditions or mental illnesses.

Instead, they are actually symptoms of starvation, and the body's way of adapting to its starvation mode. This is especially true in cases of anorexia nervosa, whether or not the person has already been diagnosed.

**In the 1940's, scientist Ancel Keys became "famous" for his study on the physiological and psychological effects of starvation. It was observed that people in starvation mode often become obsessively preoccupied with thoughts of finding, preparing and eating food.

In turn, this can lead to impulsive behaviors such as bingeing, stealing or hoarding food. The potential is there for a therapist to misinterpret these actions as obsessive compulsive disorder symptoms, depression, or even impulse control disorder.

If a doctor or therapist suspects severe starvation in a patient, it is extremely beneficial if they also acknowledge how starvation affects human thoughts and actions. If this is overlooked, there may be a risk of misinterpreting certain behaviors as core psychiatric conditions, when they are actually symptoms of an eating disorder.

This could result in the behaviors being treated as mental illnesses (a "band-aid effect"), while the eating disorder itself is allowed to manifest and spiral out of control.

Starvation Mode - Personality Traits Of Anorexics

It's interesting to note that starvation induces many different thought and behavior patterns. Families often notice that when a loved one is suffering from an eating disorder, their personalities can be dramatically affected. You may have heard the term, "anorexic personality".

They might become rude, sarcastic, avoidant, quiet, or any number of other things.

Personality traits such as perfectionism and emotional sensitivity can be either brought on, or enhanced by the effects of starvation.

Other starvation symptoms might include:

Low heart rate (bradycardia)
Constipation - lazy bowel syndrome
Lanugo
Bloating

Early satiety (feeling full after only small amounts of food)

Some of these conditions are also overlapping symptoms of other illnesses. It's a tough balancing act for physicians and therapists to come to the correct diagnosis, but it is essential if one is to get out of starvation mode, and begin the road to anorexia recovery.

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Re: Universal medicine
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: June 15, 2012 09:29PM

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• It is for this reason that Serge has taught – ‘comparison is a destroyer of what is already amazing and perfect for you in your life’ – SB. In comparison we want/need what another has we think is better or what would be best for us if we had it. In this, we further bury our own beauty and our own Heaven-ness in favour of what we think we need as opposed to what we already are. The more we want/desire what another has, the further we bury the Glory we are from.

We compare all the time.

Selecting some items for a diet while omitting other items requires a comparison process.

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Re: Universal medicine
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: June 15, 2012 09:58PM

Do UM Dieters Feel Chilled?

Do UM Dieters Wear a Lot of Clothing, compared with non UM Members?

Ancel Keyes Subjects were restricted to 1,600 calories for over 5 months--just short of six months.

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The Minnesota Starvation Experiment, also known as the Minnesota Semi-Starvation Experiment, the Minnesota Starvation-Recovery Experiment and the Starvation Study, was a clinical study performed at the University of Minnesota between November 19, 1944 and December 20, 1945

The study was divided into three phases: A twelve-week control phase, where physiological and psychological observations were collected to establish a baseline for each subject;

a 24-week starvation phase, during which the caloric intake of each subject was drastically reduced—causing each participant to lose an average of 25% of their pre-starvation body weight;

and finally a recovery phase, in which various rehabilitative diets were tried to re-nourish the volunteers.

Two subjects were dismissed for failing to maintain the dietary restrictions imposed during the starvation phase of the experiment, and the data for two others were not used in the analysis of the results.

The investigation was designed to determine the physiological and psychological effects of severe and prolonged dietary restriction and the effectiveness of dietary rehabilitation strategies.

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Treefern wrote

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Serge works on human fears the little ones we all possess

In addition to the human fears we all possess, Ancel Key's year long Minnesota Study revealed that there is an important, additional set of psychological changes and fragility that are added on if a person is calorie restricted (1500) Kcals per day.) Those food related psychological changes could also be worked on.

What is also important is Keye's findings on how many months of re-feeding the subjects needed before they felt restored and how persistent their semi-starvation obsessions were.

All this, from months on 1600 calories a day.

Note too that Keyes took care to select only psychologically and physicially healthy young men as research subjects. The study lasted just about 3 months. Subjects didnt link it to a cosmology or a means of avoiding drudgery of reincarnation. Keyes attached no religious or ideological freight to this diet and didnt present himself as a charismatic leader.

So.. to those who have a UM loved one,

See if the psychological changes observed in the Minnisota Study subjects are different from what you have yourselves observed with your UM loved ones on the diet.

If so, SB's teachings would be working on attitudes and emotions produced by adhering to the UM diet.

If the UM diet, as observed in its effects by friends and family of UM dieters, has psychological and emotional side effects that resemble those observed and noted by Ancel Keys 50 years ago, this is interesting.

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More about this study as summarized in Wikipedia

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36 men were ultimately selected who demonstrated evidence of the required mental and physical health, the ability to get along reasonably well within a group while enduring deprivation and hardship, and sufficient commitment to the relief and rehabilitation objectives of the investigation to complete the study. (understanding the needs of starved populations in wartime and post war.)

The subjects were all white males, with ages ranging from 22 to 33 years old. Of the 36 volunteer subjects, 25 were members of the Historic Peace Churches (Mennonites, Church of the Brethren and Quakers).

Note here that precautions were taken by the researchers to monitor each man's weight loss so that no one would go into a sudden and dangerous destruction of body mass.

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Control Period (12 weeks): This was a standardization period when the subjects received a controlled diet of approximately 3,200 calories of food each day. The diet of the subjects who were close to their “ideal” weight was adjusted so as to maintain caloric balance, while the diets of the underweight and overweight individuals was adjusted so as to bring them close to their ideal weight. On average, the group ended up slightly below their “ideal” weight.[2]:74 In addition, the clinical staff of the Laboratory of Physiological Hygiene routinely conducted a series of anthropometric, physiological and psychological tests designed to characterize the physical and mental health of each participant under normal conditions.

Semi-Starvation Period (24 weeks): During the 6-month semi-starvation period, each subject’s dietary intake was cut to approximately 1,560 calories per day. Their meals were composed of foods that were expected to typify the diets of people in Europe during the latter stages of the war: potatoes, rutabagas, turnips, bread and macaroni.

Restricted Rehabilitation Period (12 weeks): The participants were divided into four groups of eight men; each group received a strictly-controlled rehabilitation diet, consisting of one of four different caloric energy levels. In each energy-level group, the men were further subdivided into subgroups receiving differing protein and vitamin supplements regimes. In this manner, the clinical staff examined various energy, protein and vitamin strategies for re-nourishing the subjects from the conditions of famine induced during the semi-starvation period.

Unrestricted Rehabilitation Period (8 weeks): For the final rehabilitation period, caloric intake and food content was unrestricted but carefully recorded and monitored.

During the starvation period, the subjects received two meals per day designed to induce the same level of nutritional stress for each participant. Since each subject had distinct metabolic characteristics, the diet of each man was adjusted throughout the starvation period to produce roughly a 25% total weight loss over the 24-week period. The researchers tracked each subject's weight as a function of time elapsed since the beginning of the starvation period. For each subject, the weight versus time plot was expected—as well as enforced—to form a particular curve, the prediction weight-loss curve, whose characteristics were decided prior to the commencement of the experiment. The postulated curves turned out to be quite predictive for most subjects

The men were also monitored psychologically and given opportunities for exercise.

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Throughout the duration of the study each man was assigned specific work tasks, was expected to walk 22 miles each week and required to keep a personal diary.[4] An extensive battery of tests was periodically administered, including the collection of metabolic and physical measurements; X-ray examinations; treadmill performance; and intelligence and psychological evaluation.

Pyschological Effects

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Among the conclusions from the study was the confirmation that prolonged semi-starvation produces significant increases in depression, hysteria and hypochondriasis as measured using the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory. Indeed, most of the subjects experienced periods of severe emotional distress and depression.[1]:161 There were extreme reactions to the psychological effects during the experiment including self-mutilation (one subject amputated three fingers of his hand with an axe, though the subject was unsure if he had done so intentionally or accidentally).[5] Participants exhibited a preoccupation with food, both during the starvation period and the rehabilitation phase. Sexual interest was drastically reduced, and the volunteers showed signs of social withdrawal and isolation.[1]:123-124 The participants reported a decline in concentration, comprehension and judgment capabilities, although the standardized tests administered showed no actual signs of diminished capacity. There were marked declines in physiological processes indicative of decreases in each subject’s basal metabolic rate (the energy required by the body in a state of rest), reflected in reduced body temperature, respiration and heart rate. Some of the subjects exhibited edema (swelling) in their extremities, presumably due to the massive quantities of water the participants consumed attempting to fill their stomachs during the starvation period.

[edit] Related work
One of the crucial observations of the Minnesota Starvation Experiment discussed by a number of researchers in the nutritional sciences—including Ancel Keys—is that the physical effects of the induced semi-starvation during the study well approximates the conditions experienced by patients afflicted with a range of eating disorders, such as anorexia nervosa and bulimia nervosa. As a result of the study it has been postulated that many of the profound social and psychological effects of these disorders may result from undernutrition, and recovery depends on physical re-nourishment as well as psychological treatment.[1]:199-200

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Re: Universal medicine
Date: June 15, 2012 10:02PM

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Gibbs
There was a 8-10 year old young girl this time and she answered Mom, Dad, happy, friends, etc..

Hey there are a couple of straightforward reasons as to why the American spelling for the abbreviated form of Mother 'Mom' has been used here:

1. Gibbs is American and has used the American form accidentally. Possible.
2. The kid was American and used the American form and Gibbs quoted it in the original form. Pretty unlikely I'd have to say.

So we have a conundrum:

1. Is Gibbs American, if so why is the rest of his writing in Australian style with the occasional mate thrown in and why does he tend to write replies at the same time as everyone else in the Australian time zone.
2. Is the kid American, I don't think so, the probability of the kid appearing at an event is already low, the chance of an American kid appearing when the presentation wasn't in the US lower still, and the improbability is compounded by the fact that an Australian writer would have to be so painstakingly accurate in their retelling to use the child's native tongue as it isn't second nature for an Aussie to say Mom.

So I'm sorry Gibbs but you are American, not that there is anything wrong with that, it just means that to me this presents an inconsistent picture of you as throughout the rest of your writing you appear to be Australian.

When I marry that up with the other inconsistencies already demonstrated by others on this site around the person you present yourself as being, I ask myself: 'who is Gibbs, and why is he here?'

And then it all makes sense... G-I-B-B-S, or should that be: Gee-I-Be-S-B.

Hi Serge, welcome to the discussion board, it was only a matter of time before your ego got the better of you.

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Re: Universal medicine
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: June 15, 2012 10:57PM

Gibbs:

"The entity doesn't control the person as such. It exploits the opportunity given by the individuals bad choices. Essentially they are controlling you or influencing"?

You believe this?

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Re: Universal medicine
Posted by: MacReady ()
Date: June 16, 2012 03:25AM

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corboy
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• It is for this reason that Serge has taught – ‘comparison is a destroyer of what is already amazing and perfect for you in your life’ – SB. In comparison we want/need what another has we think is better or what would be best for us if we had it. In this, we further bury our own beauty and our own Heaven-ness in favour of what we think we need as opposed to what we already are. The more we want/desire what another has, the further we bury the Glory we are from.

We compare all the time.

Selecting some items for a diet while omitting other items requires a comparison process.

Moreover, Serge and his followers make comparisons all the time. Comparisons between his belief system and others. Comparisons between what is supposedly 'fiery' and 'pranic' (neither of which are are identifiable or measurable by any scientific method). Serge 'lovingly' critiquing everything and everyone else on the planet is essentially the product of a process of comparison between his allegedly perfect, true way and every other option.

The students compare themselves to Serge constantly, and of course always feel like they are falling short. UM members leaving their loving partners for not believing/adhering to Serge's worldview is a perfect example of where a process of comparison has 'destroyed what was already amazing and perfect in their lives'. Not that any relationship is necessarily perfect of course, but the problems here clearly begin as a result of a comparison between how these people used to live and how Serge has convinced them they should live.

Comparison, despite the hypocritical preaching to the contrary, is central to UM doctrine and the psychological manipulation of those who decide to follow it. A decision that involves, of course, comparing two worldview options and then making a choice.

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Re: Universal medicine
Posted by: MacReady ()
Date: June 16, 2012 04:03AM

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Gibbs
MacReady Good points. I agree with everything you said.

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Note: Serge claims that murder, rape, suicide, pedophilia etc are all the result of entities entering and manipulating the perpetrator. How then can he claim that entities have no real power and as such are nothing to worry about?

This is a good question. From what I know, the entities are given easy entry because of the life choices the individual has made. Bad choices make a hole or entry point into your aura or something.

The entity doesn't control the person as such. It exploits the opportunity given by the individuals bad choices. Essentially they are controlling you or influencing. This is one of the reasons why students become so fanatical regarding alcohol and other drugs.

I really don't know much more than this.

So the entities don't control people but essentially they control (!) or influence people as a result of bad choices.

Logic would suggest that any bad choices an individual makes are the result of a thought process, otherwise they wouldn't be choices. Serge also teaches that we are incapable of individual thought, that all thoughts and ideas are impulsed to us either from 'fiery' (Sanat Kumara?) or pranic (Lords of Form) sources. If the individual's very thoughts were not made freely and were impulsed by the Lords of Form, and those thoughts led to the bad choices that then led to the entities entering and possessing the individual, ultimately influencing them to commit a violent act, in theory it sounds like Serge is actually saying the astral entities/LoF DO very much control people.

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Re: Universal medicine
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: June 16, 2012 05:26AM

Pending question:

Does behavior of UM dieters match anything reported in the Ancel Keyes study?

Do the UM dieters wear extra clothing and behave as though they have low body temp?

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