Hi Jimmy & the rest of the readers on this site,

This is my first visit here. I have not read all of the posts. I wasn't aware ymbba & the Church at Wells was getting so famous. I will likely not get on this site very much, but let me share a few things. I am the father of one of the young men at the Church at Wells. My wife and I visited our Son, Daughter-in-Law, & granddaughter in December. Our granddaughter was born in December. These are my personal observations and impressions:
1. This is a new church that loves the Lord and His Word.
2. They are truely seeking to live holy & rightous lives.
3. My wife and I were welcomed and treated very well.
4. I asked for and received a meeting with the elders of the church. I was well received and was treated with respect. I was invited to come back anytime or contact them personally should I wish.
5. All of the people we met there were very friendly to us.
6. Our grandchild and all of the children we met were healthy and well taken care of.
7. No one there was being kept there against there will.

I was personally very impressed by much of what was going on at the Church in Wells. Given all I had heard about his church, and some of the changes I had seen in my son over the years since his joining this church, I am glad I got to personally go and visit this church. It may be relevant to note that I am a born again believer and ordained pastor. The oddest thing that my wife and I experienced was having our salvation questioned. In talking to the elders about this, I walked away with the impression this group is very cautious about who they consider to be a Christian and whom they allow in their church fellowship. The reason they are cautious, in my opinion, is because they have a true and genuine zeal for the Lord and a deep love and respect for His Word. Also, given all of the hypocrisy is the church today, and that many in this church were evidently going to churches thinking they were saved & then realized they truely were not, I do understand and respect this caution. In many ways it is commendable. I talked with the elders about this concern & frustration about not being considered saved by the group. We had a mature and healthy dialogue about the matter. While they weren't at that time willing to agree that my wife and I were saved, I believe it is because of their desire to be pure and Holy. They really do not know my wife or I, so I did (and do) understand their reluctance to give an official statment on my eternal status. They were open to consideration of this in the future and we seperated on very good terms. They were very busy at the time and my wife and I had to return home. But all in all, it was a very pleasant experience for my wife and I to visit this group. We look forward in the future to visiting with them. The church is a young church, being led by young men in the faith. They are certainly not perfect, but there life and witness for the Lord is far ahead of most people and young Christians I know. I am praying for them and desire the best for them as they seek to serve God according to His Holy Word as best they can.

Sorry about going on and on. I consider myself a friend to this group and attempt to serve God and His Body as best I can. I hope my observations and statements are helpful. I have tried to be as honest as I can be. Let me close by quoting what has been called the Sermon on the Mount. These are words of Jesus as recorded by St. Matthew and they seem pertinent to this forum:

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you. 34. Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4. Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5. Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of they brother's eye. 6. Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. 7. Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8. For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 9. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 10. Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11. If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask Him? 12. Therefore all things whatsover ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

These words of Jesus are very important.

Sincerely yours in Christ,

David

I must confess that I am rather surprised at your experience. My own experience with them has caused me much sorrow, primarily because they blatantly disregard the word of God in some very important areas. I also have a number of very, very close friends who have had the same experience that I have had with them. In addition to that, some of them have been very verbally abusive and unkind to others in my presence.

Oh, and of course no one is being held against their will!! That is the whole point of a cult! My goodness, if people were only being held against their will we could just call the police and be done with this whole thing. Instead they are there by choice, if not willingly and we have to pray for them every day and quietly grieve for them in our hearts because running a cult isn't actually illegal. Furthermore, I would like to add that I was in a cult once many years ago. The Lord brought me out - praise His holy Name! - and I can say that though we were there by choice, "willing" is probably a less than fully appropriate word to use. I am only glad now that God used such an experience to grow me in grace and learn to rely on Him fully! I praise God now because He opened my eyes caused me to walk with Him through that experience and I will never leave Him now. The Lord used that experience to help me to learn His word too. That being said it was still a deeply painful and grievous experience and I still bear some of the scars from it to this day. Now I am grieving because some people that I care very deeply for are embroiled in ymbba and they are, in my opinion, most definitely a cult. And a more dangerous one than many of them, simply because they are unusually persuasive.

Although I am happy that you had a nice visit, I have to agree with Jimmy 26. The biggest concerns that I have with this group include; their practice of judging someone based on what they see them doing. For example, walking out of a bar; this is exactly what the pharisees did to Jesus. They saw Him with "sinners" , tax collectors, prostitutes etc, they called Him a drunkard and a glutton and to their shame they condemned the Son Of God. I fear that the members of this group would do the same. I am also concerned about the lack of individuality amongst the members. God made each of us special and unique and He has a great plan for each of us. He gave us unique talents, gifts and abilities so that we could fulfill His will for our life. However, this group does not encourage, in fact, it discourages individuality. What a tragedy to waste the wonderful talents, etc that God gave each of us. Another concern I have expressed is the apparent lack of any kind of training, teaching or mentoring of the 'elders' of this group. I am concerned that they received at least some sound mentoring and teaching in the Truth before they decided that they should be leading a growing number of what they would consider "new believers" and I am not talking about formal seminary etc, because I know they love to argue against any kind of 'worldy' education, but Jesus spent 3 yrs living with the disciples, teaching and training them. I would love to speak to even one of their former pastor etc. but this request was not met with agreement.
One thing that you said that I do find interesting. because you seem to think it is Ok, is the fact that the elders continue to question your salvation even though you spoke with them and certainly your son vouched for you. I am surprised that this level of arrogance does not alarm you.
And as far as being free to leave, I would suggest that you go back in this blog and read about some of the people that have left. According to them, if you express a desire to leave, for any reason, you are bombarded with lies about how you are 'turning your back on God"; "walking away from God" etc. Apparently, the elders believe that only under their watch will a person continue to live in such a manner as to "remain saved".
Fear dominates this group-fear of outside influence, fear of modern Christian worship songs, fear of the world, fear of having fun, fear of enjoying the amazing things that God has created for our enjoyment, fear of... you could almost fill this blank with anything.-but God did not give us a spirit of fear-so where is theirs coming from? Where is their trust in the power of the Holy Spirit? Jesus came to "set the captives free" And where is their demonstration of the 'gifts of the Spirit"? If they really are living a righteous and holy life of truth, then they should be down at the hospitals healing people, they should be at the jails witnessing to the prisoners and they should be casting out demons and setting people free, but none of this is happening, in fact ask them about the gifts of the spirit and see what kind of response you get and while you're at it ask them if they believe that Mary, Jesus' mother is spending eternity in heaven or in hell. I bet you will be surprised by the answer.
Again, I am very happy that you have been able to maintain a relationship with your loved one and I pray that it continues. but the family members that have been disrespected, dishonored and cut off from their loved ones are not fooled by the leaders of this group. We pray daily that God will open their eyes and ears to the truth, that the veil of decepetion will be lifted and that all of His children will be set free. Yes, we are even praying for the elders.

A quick little addendum to my epistle....yesterday....my sons friend showed up on facebook.....happens very irregularly...but since he had not unfriended me I was able to read and respond....his post was anything but peaceful....seemed to exude almost an anger....now mind you this kid was part of our family....I used to make him breakfast...we love him....his response to me was just a generic rant..no hi...no how are you guys...no I miss u....it was weird...my husband was heartbroken that he just up and left...never said goodbye....my husband just wishes he had known what he was thinking..considering....could have had a heart to heart talk...but perhaps it wouldn't have mattered...because oddly he seemed to be under their spell from afar....the very last time he was with us....when wevtried to talk with him...it was like he was looking thru us...not processing...I asked my son what was up...he said he'd been acting oddly for awhile...even on a summer job they worked together...shortly before he left....in reading previous postings on this site....which I read all from beginning...I read of people who had visited wells Texas....and felt the oppression...the darkness these people are under...I am convinced that that darkness reached out to him before he ever got in that truck.....had we known....we could have possibly intervened ...prayed with knowledge against it....but we didn't...signs were subtle...but there were red flags.....isolation...personality change....spiritual confusion.....to name the most prominent ones.....I responded in love to him on facebook.....he had completely taken it off shortly after last post...but i take comfort that I was able to tell.him he was much loved...missed...that its tome to come home...have a new beginning...when this first happened I wanted my son to drive to Texas...try to talk to him...I still was pushing for that until last Night when I read thread in its entirety....I get the feeling that would not be wise....I know longer have peace about it...quite possibly...because I sense such oppression....after I had posted on facebook....I read the thread....it became apparent to me that what God had led my heart to post was exactly addressing the issues in the thread...it was a confirmation to me...I am so impressed with the heart I see on this site....I see and read such an outpouring of love...compassion....thank u for reading my story...our family covets your prayers for this young man we love so much...I just know one day his truck will.pull.up...hell be home.....we will be waiting......love and prayers to u all

Pastor in Missouri;
While researching the church of wells I would encourage you to read the "testimonies", especially the ones from last Oct and november. What you will find is pages and pages of "testimony" that is nothing but the "parishioners " belittling and slandering members of their families. The "testimonies" are full of lies and half truths and serve no purpose, except to hurt their family members as much as humanly possible! I don't know of any Church that would condone this type of hatefulness, let alone encourage it by posting it on their official website . The church of wells encourages their members to break all ties with their families (if they judge them unsaved). You cant imagine the pain they have caused these families. It is the only church I have ever encountered that won't allow you to attend a service, unless you have been vetted and approved by other members. The y cut off anyone that doesnt share their beliefs.

to secondmama-I am so sorry to hear about you son's friend. As we continue to trust in God for His many promises, we know that He will (in His perfect time) work even this for the good . P.S. you make a comment about adding an addendum to your epistle but I don't see any other post?-

to secondmama-Hi sorry, I found your first post on the other website-your experience is all to familiar. One of the kids in Wells also went to Calvary and has been actively seeking out others. I pray that God has mercy on him for his aggressive deception. Woe to anyone who leads another astray. Do not worry. Calvary Chapel's doctrine is sound and teaches the truth. Your "son" will again hear the voice of God and turn back to the truth when God has declared "ENOUGH!"

Dear Aunt M & Justin et.al.,

I have been waiting to post on this forum until after I had talked a few things over with my son and one of the elders of the Church at Wells. While I thought that would be the most appropriate way to poceed, since I have not heard back from them yet I thought it best to go ahead and share just a few things anyway since I did start a dialogue here and the issues are important.

I plan on continuing to get to know the Church at Wells & their leadership better. Again, I also have a son & daughter-in-law & granddaughter their. I plan on visiting them in March Lord willing. Again, at this point I have a good working relationship with the church elders and they have opened a door of communication that I appreciate. As mentioned before, one odd experience I had with the group (that many on this site have mentioned) was that they do not believe that my wife or me are saved. As I continue to interact with the church I will continue to discuss with them on what basis they are reluctant to accept my confession of faith. This is such a fundamental issue it will indeed influence future interactions. It is also so important, I respect this church's desire to not quickly make an official declaration on my personal status with the Lord. In my opinion, in many ways this position is comendable and many churches that have been in existance much longer could learn from this desire to be cautious of declaring someone truely saved. I do want to emphasize that during my last visit with the elders of the Church at Wells we simply did not have time to explore this important matter. Since I consider myself a friend of this church I believe such an important matter should be discussed face to face. While I am well known and respected as an elder by many in the Body of Christ, and have fellowshipped with many in the Body of Christ for many years, I am a relative unknown person to the Church at Wells. While I haven't heard from the group, nor my son, in quite a while they have given me an open invitation to come and visit anytime. I am personally looking forward to an ongoing mature interaction with the group and my son and his family. For those of you who are true Christians I would ask for your prayers. That truth is revealed and God is glorified. Since I have started a dialogue on this forum I will keep you posted as I am able and feel directed by the Lord to do so. I would like to share a portion of Scripture that seems relevant:

"I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the voation wherewith ye are called, 2. With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3. Endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

I will add in closing, that the only basis the elders gave me at the time of our last meeting that they could not acknowledge that I was saved was on the report of my son. As mentioned in my previous post, the other reason I think the elders of this church are reluctant to state that I am saved is that they really don't know me well enough to make such a declaration. They take their positions very seriously and I admire them for this. They are desiring to live holy lives and trying to lead their congregation in the path of holiness according to God's Word as best they can. They are young men overseeing a very young church. Like any church I have ever witnessed, they are making mistakes and are not perfect. I made many mistakes when I was young. I continue to make mistakes now that I am old. Thank God I am not what I used to be, but am far from being what I hope to be. I will again close by saying there is much in this church I respect. There are several mistakes I believe they are making, including the relationships they have with parents. I have shared these concerns with this church personally and have been assured by them that we can continue to discuss these concerns. I think this is a mature and Biblical approach to take. I hope this feedback is helpful.

Sincerely,

David

Pastor from Missouri: I dont understand. Why do you feel any church has the resonsibility, wisdom, or right to determine whether our not you (or anyone else) is saved. God is my judge, not any church of men. My relationship with the Lord is between me and the Lord. I have seen "testimony " where one of the members stated a relative "has not confessed or ask for forgiveness" how on earth would he know? Confession and begging God for forgiveness is not something I do publicly! No church of men can't truly know what my relationship with Jesus Christ is! Nor has the Lord ever given man permission to judge other men, in fact the bible is very clear on the subject.

I am curious to know how long your son has been involved with this group?