Re: "Jesus Christians," Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers", "cult"
Posted by: Apollo ()
Date: December 09, 2012 11:12PM

I see the LiveWithoutLovingMoney cult (off-shoot of the Jesus Christians cult) are now actively seeking new members. It is believed ''former'' Jesus Christians followers/victims Grace Hill-Speed and the two Kronmiller twins, Jeremy and Jayme, are fronting this group.


“Help Wanted” (i.e. show me the money)
Posted on November 20, 2012

Have you ever thought of becoming a pastor or missionary? Did the thought of racking up tons of debt in order to become a pastor or missionary make you decide to drop the idea altogether, in order to settle for something more “practical?”

Well, we’re here to tell you that you don’t have to give up on those dreams! We are a tiny community of like-minded souls who are blessed enough to enjoy being able to work for God FULL-TIME!!!

We have decided that working for God full-time is the absolute best way to spend our short lives here on Earth, and we are seeking out other like-minded individuals who believe the same.

We are currently taking applications for several open positions available right now. (Matthew 9:37; Luke 10:2)

So if you are interested in eating out of bins, sharing a camper van with three other people, disowning family and friends and handing over your life savings then this is the group for you!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2012 11:12PM by Apollo.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers", "cult"
Posted by: Apollo ()
Date: December 09, 2012 11:24PM

A ''gentleman'' named Dave has posted a comment on their blog. It sounds awfully much like the old wanker extraordinaire himself, desperately trying to justify his freeloading existence.


Dave says:
November 18, 2012 at 1:45 PM

I checked out that German woman. It’s strange that the only posts were made over two days (June 18 and 19). Probably because there was so much negative stuff.

I know of people who lived much the same way in Compton, California, years ago. In fact, the neighbours there were particularly respectful of what they were doing.

The key thing seems to be that anyone trying to live without money still contribute to society through whatever skills they have. Just communicating the theory is one of the ways that they could contribute.

After all, people pay big money to hear things like motivational speakers. They pay big money to talk to psychologists. Just about anyone gets money for what they do these days, so someone who is contributing to society for free is not a moocher. In fact, it’s the ones who demand payment before they will help anyone out who seem like the real moochers.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers", "cult"
Posted by: j_c_watcher ()
Date: May 25, 2013 04:41PM

A couple of years ago I was "befriended" by members of the Jesus Christians cult who were handing out flyers in Sydney, Australia. There were 3 cult members who identified themselves as: Ashwyn Falkingham, Barry Fernandez and a guy named Ross. Ross's last name is unknown, but he's the bearded guy with the guitar in this Youtube video:


These 3 Jesus Christians were living in a Toyota Coaster mobile home parked behind Sydney University in the suburb of Darlington. The exact location is Lander Street, Darlington, near the corner of Raglan Street. This location is sometimes used by the Jesus Christians cult-leader David McKay and his wife Cherry to park their mobile home in. Jesus Christians cult members believe that their "leader" David McKay is The Messiah and it's a real hoot, because Davis is SO ordinary, a short balding middle-aged American man.

Of the 3 Jesus Christians I met in Sydney, Ross was in his fifties and appeared to be the leader of the guys in the Toyota Coaster, although Barry the control-freak didn’t like taking orders and would pick arguments with Ross over trivial stuff. It later emerged Ross has been following David McKay for almost 30 years and that Ross takes psychiatric medication. Barry Fernandez is aged in his thirties and is of Indian descent. Barry was very paranoid, aggressive and fanatically loyal to David McKay, the leader of the Jesus Christians cult. To join the Jesus Christians, one must accept that David McKay is “The Messiah” and that everything utterance which leaves David’s mouth is the Word Of God. The cult-members I met were all paranoid, to varying degress and all showed signs of mental illness. Barry has been known to follow people around for hours, ducking into alleys and doorways to try and avoid detection, while checking-out they are going were they SAY they are going, and not dropping into ASIO, the Australian Secret Police, to report on the Jesus Christians. Barry is totally paranoid and a borderline psychopath. Ashwyn Falkingham was the youngest of the 3 men (aged in his twenties) and appeared to be the most naive of the three.

Having befriended me when I was down, these 3 Jesus Christians suddenly disappeared from Sydney in 2010. Ross said Barry had "gone underground" and neither Ashwyn nor Barry could be reached by mobile phone or email any more. These guys had been helping me, then they just vanished without warning and I came close to committing suicide. Perhaps they were pissed-off because I refused to join the Jesus Christians cult. Whatever the reason, if they go around befriending vulnerable people then leave them in the lurch, they WILL be responsible for someone's death.

I moved to Melbourne, Australia, in 2011 and in 2012 the guy named Ross appeared in Melbourne by himself, claiming to be no longer involved with the Jesus Christians, but still handing out religious flyers about the same sort of stuff the Jesus Christians are into. His favourite place to hand them out is in Swanston Street, Melbourne CBD, in front of the escalators that go up inside the Melbourne Central Shopping Centre. Ross also sometimes goes to the Gembrook Retreat which is a hang-out for anarchists, including some very extreme ones.


With my previous experience of being “friends” with these people and being left swinging in the breeze when they decided to go "underground", I refuse to talk to Ross or any other Cult members. Last time I shunned Ross he immediately got on his mobile phone and made a call, so he appears to be "reporting in" to someone. So much for his claim to be working alone. Maybe he had to report-in to his Anarchist buddies. These days, Ross is parking his Toyota Coaster mobile home at a church in the inner suburbs of Melbourne. The people at the church probably think Ross is a nice Christian fellow, but they don’t know what they’re dealing with.

Ross claims to no longer be a Jesus Christian, but I don't buy it. He has spent the last 30 years taking Psych meds and believing that Dave McKay was The Messiah, so whatever Ross calls himself now, I think he still believes in the same paranoid crap that he has always believed in. And he probably still believes that every time David McKay opens his mouth, the Word Of God dribbles out.

It would be funny if not for the fact that the Jesus Christians prey on vulnerable people and the mentally-ill, then abandon them when it suits the Cult Leader to do so.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers", "cult"
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: May 25, 2013 09:21PM


Thanks for the updated information.

There has not been much new information about McKay and his followers for some time.

This thread has had its problems.

1. JC supporters coming here to make trouble. They have been banned from this message board.

2. People attempting to dominate and dictate at this thread. Such people do not have auto-approve status and their posts are moderated, i.e. they must be approved before they appear on this thread.

Please let me know if anyone bothers you, weird private messaging through this board or whatever.

You now have auto-approve status.

Thanks again for the fresh information and insights.

The McKay group is quite small, but nevertheless very predatory and pernicious with a history of leaving many victims in its wake.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2013 09:23PM by rrmoderator.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers", "cult"
Posted by: Apollo ()
Date: May 26, 2013 11:43AM

Welcome to the forum j_c_watcher.

Dave McKay's cult has gone underground and their recent activity is unknown. It is believed this decision was taken due to various allegations regarding child abuse within the cult.

Please visit to find out more info and meet like-minded ex-Jesus Christians.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers", "cult"
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: May 26, 2013 11:49PM

These descriptions a vast help. Other people may, by reading them, be able to recognize whether this resembles encounters they or friends of theirs have had.

Note: One way to keep this thread in view on the screen is, one can type 'bump' into a post, and publish that as a message.

Doing that will move this thread to the top of the screen.

Also, this message board is searchable--even by persons not registered.

The search slot is in the upper right corner. Click on it.

This message board is ten plus years old. So to see how far back a topic goes, select the all dates option for search.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers", "cult"
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: May 29, 2013 08:07PM


The last post made at the message board you seem to be promoting was Sep 13, 2012.

It's a fairly dead message board.

The problem with this thread has been people attempting to dominate it, distract posters and generally trolling.

Nevertheless as Corboy points out there is a huge amount of information here (more than 100,000 posts) and quite a bit about McKay and his "Jesus Christians" group.

Instead of attempting to distract people posting here I strongly suggest you contribute in some constructive way.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2013 08:11PM by rrmoderator.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers", "cult"
Posted by: Apollo ()
Date: June 07, 2013 05:00AM

Interesting to note there's been movement on the Jesus Christians wiki page recently with both Jinnythesquinny and Sue Gianstefani making various edits. One does wonder why they've suddenly decided to take on this role.


In one angry outburst Jinnythesquinny aka Zoe Briggs (serial JCs apologist) demands an explanation from the wikipedia editors.

Jinnythesquinny 10:13, 20 May 2013‎ Why are my perfectly valid, factual and referenced edit being reverted with no explanation? If there's a problem, please explain it.

Is it possible the the wiki editors have realised that Zoe's ''perfectly valid'' edits are in fact biased, unfounded, and nothing more than a cult apologist trying to re-write history with the hope of earning browny points with her cult associates?

Sue Gianstefani (JCs victim/follower) makes a small edit but a significant one nevertheless.

In November 2010, the Jesus Christians seemed to have officially disbanded.

Changed to:

In November 2010, the Jesus Christians were officially disbanded.

So why did Sue suddenly feel the urge to make this alteration?

Just who is she trying to convince?

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Re: "Jesus Christians," Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers", "cult"
Posted by: Apollo ()
Date: June 12, 2013 06:50AM

More evidence that the Truth Believers/Jesus Christians continue to sell their propaganda on our streets. This gentleman is from Mnachester so I assume that's where he met them.


THe Truth Believers Sell Me A DVD

Posted on January 12, 2013

I take pity on forlorn guys flogging their tunes on street corners. This one had a beard and I was in a hurry. I paused and went back to the young eco-warrior-type. The guy breathlessly explained he had two films on a DVD and they could be mine for a few pennies. Some coins were exchanged and before I bolted into the shopping mall, I heard a cry of “My video is about implanted chips. I don’t believe in them.” I was glad the young chap with a beard believed in not believing in implanted chips. “I’ll write a review and email you.” I said earnestly.

I have a low threshold of concentration with anything homemade that isn’t on Youtube and lasts longer than 5 minutes. Hey, I’m as good as his word and he watched both movies and now I’ll give you the drill down and tell you something about the producers.

Movie 1 – The Mark (45 mins)

It starts off with a few vox pop and then a lots more vox pop and a few info-commercials and news reports about tiny computer chips some companies (and bizarrely a school canteen in Norfolk) and medical organisations implant in people so they don’t have to carry a drivers licence or pay for beer or school lunches. This is Britain. In Britain we don’t implant children with silicone chips like those guys The Borg (TNG) to pay for potato chips. Chips are a bad idea if we implant them in humans and God forbid, children. I don’t want no chips in me.

Then as they say in Hollywood, comes the money shot. Implanted chips are a bad idea not because the government could be keeping tabs on our every movement from cradle to grave, but because Revelations 13:17-18 prophesied them. An Anglican vicar wasn’t so sure and a Pastor from the Seventh Day Adventists blamed the prophesied ‘Mark of the Beast’ on Papists and Sabbath desecrater’s.

The Truth Believers introduce themselves and describe their lifestyle. Which seems very eco-friendly and they live without money or nearly without money. But they’ll be ready in the end times to do battle with the Beast because you guessed, they won’t get implanted with ‘the Mark of the Beast’. They seemed happy enough and I won’t spoil the fun with a hundred years of New Testament scholarship that links the Beast to Caesar Nero.

Movie 2 – The Law (41 mins)

This is particularly difficult to watch. It starts off by asking religious figures to explain the difference between forgiveness and punishment and how they seem to be exclusive to one another when billions of Christians utter the words “And we forgive those who trespass against us”. Theologians are pretty bad at explaining their beliefs and one Pastor was quite candid about wishing to beat the living daylights out of the poor unfortunate who trespassed against him. Anyway, the movie moves off on a tangent equating extremes of punishment and penal codes with forgiveness and redemption and turning the other cheek. It’s all a bit graphic and really is for the strong stomached.

So who was my bearded friend?

He was a Truth Believer. They are the little band of Christians or more properly Jesus Christians who have had a lot of bad press. They were involved in inviting a 16 year old boy to join their group. He ran away with the fun loving Christians and the courts got involved in bringing him home. I’ll leave it up to you to decide if it was abduction or just recklessness on the behalf of the group. The probably made more headlines about eight years ago with them offering to give away their kidneys (one kidney per group member). I think giving away a kidney is a noble act, but I seem to think they had to vet the person they offered it to. Not sure if I agree with the ethics of offering up a kidney and then attaching conditions to its removal. I might have got that wrong though.

I can see some charm in being a freegan and living close to nature. I can see the merits of living in a religious community, though I must point out I’m 40 years of age, am bound by a science called Dialectical Materialism and my paradise is a little more collective. Everybody has to muck in for the common good in my society. But please don’t get me wrong, I’m no apologist for Chinese Communism, that is not my brand of Socialism.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers", "cult"
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: July 13, 2013 03:50AM

Here is the new Jesus Christians UK Home Page. Apparently, there are still some "Jesus Christians" out there.


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