Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay (thread 2)
Posted by:
Apollo
()
Date: August 17, 2011 10:26PM
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay (thread 2)
Posted by:
Apollo
()
Date: August 18, 2011 12:48AM
Overnight, in early November, 2010, there seemed to be a number of revelations that we should just totally disband as a community...without any notice.
This would lead me to believe that they really did ''implode'', and that perhaps Dave's victims/followers had finally woken up to the control they were under....
In particular, this seemed to involve immediately ceasing all communication with various friends, relatives, and contacts, until we had clearer leadings from God about what to do.
But, when you find out it involves ceasing all communication with various friends, relatives, and contacts you suddenly realise it has the Apostle's grubby little mitts all over it.
I'm sure that some of us had concerns about whether this was a trick of the devil to "destroy" what we have been building up all these years.
No, I think we can all see it was a ''trick of the Apostle''. It looks like a last ditch attempt to cling onto what's left of his diminishing flock. They may think they're gaining greater ''freedom'' but in actual fact by ceasing all communication with various friends, relatives, and contacts they're allowing the Apostle to control them more so than ever before. A cunning plan from the Apostle. He no longer needs to worry about these friends and relatives ''poisoning'' the minds of his victims/followers, whilst he sits back and watches the pennies roll in.
At the last count they had $100,000 in the bank and that was after spending over $50,000 on a luxury cruise. This is big business to the Apostle.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2011 12:51AM by Apollo.
This would lead me to believe that they really did ''implode'', and that perhaps Dave's victims/followers had finally woken up to the control they were under....
In particular, this seemed to involve immediately ceasing all communication with various friends, relatives, and contacts, until we had clearer leadings from God about what to do.
But, when you find out it involves ceasing all communication with various friends, relatives, and contacts you suddenly realise it has the Apostle's grubby little mitts all over it.
I'm sure that some of us had concerns about whether this was a trick of the devil to "destroy" what we have been building up all these years.
No, I think we can all see it was a ''trick of the Apostle''. It looks like a last ditch attempt to cling onto what's left of his diminishing flock. They may think they're gaining greater ''freedom'' but in actual fact by ceasing all communication with various friends, relatives, and contacts they're allowing the Apostle to control them more so than ever before. A cunning plan from the Apostle. He no longer needs to worry about these friends and relatives ''poisoning'' the minds of his victims/followers, whilst he sits back and watches the pennies roll in.
At the last count they had $100,000 in the bank and that was after spending over $50,000 on a luxury cruise. This is big business to the Apostle.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2011 12:51AM by Apollo.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay (thread 2)
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: August 18, 2011 01:10AM
Why not re-post this in its entirety, to preserve it for posterity?
Post Grad Report
I would like to share something that I have been learning since "graduation" in November of last year. There has been a lot of speculation about exactly what happened back then, and a lot of that speculation was amongst those of us involved as well. Or as the tongue-in-cheek saying goes, "What we are doing is so top secret that even we don't know what we're doing." Let me explain.
Overnight, in early November, 2010, there seemed to be a number of revelations that we should just totally disband as a community... without any notice. In particular, this seemed to involve immediately ceasing all communication with various friends, relatives, and contacts, until we had clearer leadings from God about what to do. I'm sure that some of us had concerns about whether this was a trick of the devil to "destroy" what we have been building up all these years, while others (those who had not personally received any leadings from God) may have feared that it was some kind of a trick on my part or on the part of those who claimed to have received revelations from God. Many such theories have been circulated over the past ten months.
At the time, those of us involved jokingly called it "implosion" as our own private giggle at the fact that it was in many ways exactly what some of our enemies had been almost praying for for so many years. The giggle was that we expected they would not even believe the answer to their own prayer. However, opinions were mostly divided over whether to say that we had "disbanded" or that members had "graduated". At any rate, what we were doing did seem to be a more radical expression of various past experiments with "autonomy", i.e. to just kick everyone out of the nest and let them fly on their own, doing whatever it is that they feel God wants them to do.
This did not happen without some hurt feelings, but that too seemed to be consistent both with people feeling genuinely free, as well as with how it usually happens when adolescents start being treated like adults in some of the less pleasant ways. (I remember feeling incredible homesickness when I left home to attend university at the age of 17, and knowing that I probably could never go back home again.)
Because of the reduced communication since "graduation", it has not been easy to know exactly how well this unexpected graduation has been working. However, it does seem like in many ways we have broken up into a host of little different ministries, some of them very much like what we have done in the past, and others taking on a definite personality of their own. There is no doubt in my mind that it has totally baffled our opponents, which has been a source of great joy to me personally! Ha!
Are Cherry and I failed leaders with nothing to show for our life's work, as a result of the implosion/graduation/disbanding? In a way, yes. But then we never had much that was visible in the form of an organisation anyway. Starting a big organisation was never our primary goal (though we certainly would have LIKED to have been part of a big movement preaching the teachings of Jesus). Our number one goal has always been just to be faithful to the truth, whether it "sells" in a big way or not. We have said it many times: What has happened throughout history is that people have mistaken their organisations for the kingdom of heaven, and when that happens, the organisation often becomes the biggest hindrance to building the kingdom of heaven. From the early days of the Jesus Christians, what I felt that we were ultimately called to build was the invisible kingdom of the heart. Organisations are fine if they help with that, but in themselves, they are dispensable.
What we're seeing out there now is a growing number of people just building on what they have learned from us and forming their own ministries, each just different enough from the others as to make it impossible for the hate sites to come up with a reliable means of identifying their targets, and then knowing where to shoot. They keep finding themselves drawn between love bombing someone who they think may have turned on Cherry and me, or damning and ridiculing someone who is still idealistic enough to be preaching the teachings of Jesus. It's an exciting new phase in our own spiritual development... Cherry's and mine, but also others who were previously known as Jesus Christians.
Then there is the prophetic aspect of what has happened. It's possible that this is some kind of a preliminary step on the way to what we have understood the Bible to be saying about the "Twelve Tribes" that supernaturally rise up during the last few years before Jesus returns. That may be a little too optimistic (or premature, if the return of Jesus is still some considerable distance away), but I could well imagine that God will, at some stage, lead others to leave their previous organisational crutches, in order to discover the real thing in obedience to his Spirit. So why couldn't he be doing that now? Kind of like secret cells, who don't even know much about one another... so that it becomes impossible for any of us (myself included) to spill their guts about where everyone else is.
Then, of course, it could just be the mad ravings of a failed leader, in which case the book can probably just be closed on those people once known as Jesus Christians. No matter which way it goes, I feel much more at ease than I ever have before, for those who used to work with Cherry and me, and who used to suffer some pretty heavy flak as a result of it.
Post Grad Report
I would like to share something that I have been learning since "graduation" in November of last year. There has been a lot of speculation about exactly what happened back then, and a lot of that speculation was amongst those of us involved as well. Or as the tongue-in-cheek saying goes, "What we are doing is so top secret that even we don't know what we're doing." Let me explain.
Overnight, in early November, 2010, there seemed to be a number of revelations that we should just totally disband as a community... without any notice. In particular, this seemed to involve immediately ceasing all communication with various friends, relatives, and contacts, until we had clearer leadings from God about what to do. I'm sure that some of us had concerns about whether this was a trick of the devil to "destroy" what we have been building up all these years, while others (those who had not personally received any leadings from God) may have feared that it was some kind of a trick on my part or on the part of those who claimed to have received revelations from God. Many such theories have been circulated over the past ten months.
At the time, those of us involved jokingly called it "implosion" as our own private giggle at the fact that it was in many ways exactly what some of our enemies had been almost praying for for so many years. The giggle was that we expected they would not even believe the answer to their own prayer. However, opinions were mostly divided over whether to say that we had "disbanded" or that members had "graduated". At any rate, what we were doing did seem to be a more radical expression of various past experiments with "autonomy", i.e. to just kick everyone out of the nest and let them fly on their own, doing whatever it is that they feel God wants them to do.
This did not happen without some hurt feelings, but that too seemed to be consistent both with people feeling genuinely free, as well as with how it usually happens when adolescents start being treated like adults in some of the less pleasant ways. (I remember feeling incredible homesickness when I left home to attend university at the age of 17, and knowing that I probably could never go back home again.)
Because of the reduced communication since "graduation", it has not been easy to know exactly how well this unexpected graduation has been working. However, it does seem like in many ways we have broken up into a host of little different ministries, some of them very much like what we have done in the past, and others taking on a definite personality of their own. There is no doubt in my mind that it has totally baffled our opponents, which has been a source of great joy to me personally! Ha!
Are Cherry and I failed leaders with nothing to show for our life's work, as a result of the implosion/graduation/disbanding? In a way, yes. But then we never had much that was visible in the form of an organisation anyway. Starting a big organisation was never our primary goal (though we certainly would have LIKED to have been part of a big movement preaching the teachings of Jesus). Our number one goal has always been just to be faithful to the truth, whether it "sells" in a big way or not. We have said it many times: What has happened throughout history is that people have mistaken their organisations for the kingdom of heaven, and when that happens, the organisation often becomes the biggest hindrance to building the kingdom of heaven. From the early days of the Jesus Christians, what I felt that we were ultimately called to build was the invisible kingdom of the heart. Organisations are fine if they help with that, but in themselves, they are dispensable.
What we're seeing out there now is a growing number of people just building on what they have learned from us and forming their own ministries, each just different enough from the others as to make it impossible for the hate sites to come up with a reliable means of identifying their targets, and then knowing where to shoot. They keep finding themselves drawn between love bombing someone who they think may have turned on Cherry and me, or damning and ridiculing someone who is still idealistic enough to be preaching the teachings of Jesus. It's an exciting new phase in our own spiritual development... Cherry's and mine, but also others who were previously known as Jesus Christians.
Then there is the prophetic aspect of what has happened. It's possible that this is some kind of a preliminary step on the way to what we have understood the Bible to be saying about the "Twelve Tribes" that supernaturally rise up during the last few years before Jesus returns. That may be a little too optimistic (or premature, if the return of Jesus is still some considerable distance away), but I could well imagine that God will, at some stage, lead others to leave their previous organisational crutches, in order to discover the real thing in obedience to his Spirit. So why couldn't he be doing that now? Kind of like secret cells, who don't even know much about one another... so that it becomes impossible for any of us (myself included) to spill their guts about where everyone else is.
Then, of course, it could just be the mad ravings of a failed leader, in which case the book can probably just be closed on those people once known as Jesus Christians. No matter which way it goes, I feel much more at ease than I ever have before, for those who used to work with Cherry and me, and who used to suffer some pretty heavy flak as a result of it.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay (thread 2)
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: August 18, 2011 02:05AM
Quote
Apollo
Overnight, in early November, 2010, there seemed to be a number of revelations that we should just totally disband as a community...without any notice.
This would lead me to believe that they really did ''implode'', and that perhaps Dave's victims/followers had finally woken up to the control they were under....
In particular, this seemed to involve immediately ceasing all communication with various friends, relatives, and contacts, until we had clearer leadings from God about what to do.
But, when you find out it involves ceasing all communication with various friends, relatives, and contacts you suddenly realise it has the Apostle's grubby little mitts all over it.
I'm sure that some of us had concerns about whether this was a trick of the devil to "destroy" what we have been building up all these years.
No, I think we can all see it was a ''trick of the Apostle''. It looks like a last ditch attempt to cling onto what's left of his diminishing flock. They may think they're gaining greater ''freedom'' but in actual fact by ceasing all communication with various friends, relatives, and contacts they're allowing the Apostle to control them more so than ever before. A cunning plan from the Apostle. He no longer needs to worry about these friends and relatives ''poisoning'' the minds of his victims/followers, whilst he sits back and watches the pennies roll in.
At the last count they had $100,000 in the bank and that was after spending over $50,000 on a luxury cruise. This is big business to the Apostle.
We know that we can pretty well take it for granted that Dave will always seek to deceive the public (especially his critics) and that he will never be completely truthful about anything.
That said, I just don't believe it. Once I hear that Joe Johnson is reunited with and reconciled to his parents, then I'll know that the JCs are no more. Once they repudiate Dave and Cherry McKay and all that they represent, then we'll know that they have well and truly "graduated."
Well, actually, this is the second disbanding this year!
DM must be following the example of The Family.
The Family "reboots" and then six months later the JCs "graduate."
What a coincidence!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2011 02:07AM by zeuszor.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay (thread 2)
Posted by:
Apollo
()
Date: August 18, 2011 03:34AM
It doesn't take a genius to work out who would have suggested they cease all communication with various friends, relatives, and contacts, until they had ''clearer leadings from God about what to do.''
It seems the ''graduation'' is simply a cunning ploy to further ostracize the group.
We know they're still out there selling his literature so the pennies are still coming in.
It seems the ''graduation'' is simply a cunning ploy to further ostracize the group.
We know they're still out there selling his literature so the pennies are still coming in.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay (thread 2)
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: August 18, 2011 03:41AM
As Dave always says: pull the other one.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay (thread 2)
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: August 18, 2011 05:33AM
I would tend to credit what David as written here as "factual"....with the proviso that I would love to know more of WHO precisely had the "revelations" to disband (and what the revelations might have been exactly...David's "revelation" that with the Australian Pension, he was now in a position to be able to dump those who had previously provided him with an income stream....AND of course, David got his "cruise" paid for, out of it all, before casting them all aside....)
There is enough of the psychotic jingoism to show that the twit imagines he can somehow twist events sufficiently to then pretend to have "won"...
There is no doubt in my mind that it has totally baffled our opponents, which has been a source of great joy to me personally! Ha!
After his own empire dissolves, he insanely crows about the loss of the very thing, he cheated and lied about, (and assaulted individuals over!) for years and years to hold onto....
...hearing him being reduced to such inanity is just such a source of joy to me! HA!
What we're seeing out there now is a growing number of people just building on what they have learned from us and forming their own ministries, each just different enough from the others as to make it impossible for the hate sites to come up with a reliable means of identifying their targets, and then knowing where to shoot. They keep finding themselves drawn between love bombing someone who they think may have turned on Cherry and me, or damning and ridiculing someone who is still idealistic enough to be preaching the teachings of Jesus.
No-one is being "love-bombed" at all, and of course the reason that the dumped "graduates" cannot easily be located, is due to the fact that the "respective" ministries are quickly losing the ability to market themselves, at all effectively....
They have only ever "sold" membership to their own organization and worship of McKay (....there are for example far more quotes from scripture and references to Jesus, FROM Zeuszor in the pages of this thread, than in their own literature)...hence without a "product" any longer, I imagine that most of the "cells" will begin to fall into disarray (should say ARE falling into disarray!)....I still back my 12 to 18 months "disintergration" timeline, dating from November last year...
Still, ...we must look to "recovery" from McKay think (Zeuszors examples of reconciliation with family) as evidence that the damage McKay has wrought is beginning to be healed..... and McKay should of course continue to be roundly condemned for his decades of fraud and robbery....(he would be hoping to be progressively "forgotten" no doubt...and left "in peace".....)
There is enough of the psychotic jingoism to show that the twit imagines he can somehow twist events sufficiently to then pretend to have "won"...
There is no doubt in my mind that it has totally baffled our opponents, which has been a source of great joy to me personally! Ha!
After his own empire dissolves, he insanely crows about the loss of the very thing, he cheated and lied about, (and assaulted individuals over!) for years and years to hold onto....
...hearing him being reduced to such inanity is just such a source of joy to me! HA!
What we're seeing out there now is a growing number of people just building on what they have learned from us and forming their own ministries, each just different enough from the others as to make it impossible for the hate sites to come up with a reliable means of identifying their targets, and then knowing where to shoot. They keep finding themselves drawn between love bombing someone who they think may have turned on Cherry and me, or damning and ridiculing someone who is still idealistic enough to be preaching the teachings of Jesus.
No-one is being "love-bombed" at all, and of course the reason that the dumped "graduates" cannot easily be located, is due to the fact that the "respective" ministries are quickly losing the ability to market themselves, at all effectively....
They have only ever "sold" membership to their own organization and worship of McKay (....there are for example far more quotes from scripture and references to Jesus, FROM Zeuszor in the pages of this thread, than in their own literature)...hence without a "product" any longer, I imagine that most of the "cells" will begin to fall into disarray (should say ARE falling into disarray!)....I still back my 12 to 18 months "disintergration" timeline, dating from November last year...
Still, ...we must look to "recovery" from McKay think (Zeuszors examples of reconciliation with family) as evidence that the damage McKay has wrought is beginning to be healed..... and McKay should of course continue to be roundly condemned for his decades of fraud and robbery....(he would be hoping to be progressively "forgotten" no doubt...and left "in peace".....)
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay (thread 2)
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: August 18, 2011 05:42AM
Look, I've been with this thread for a long time. I have made many mistakes and like to think that I have learned from them. If anybody has some personal grievance (if you'll pardon the expression) against me, then please, feel free to contact me privately and we'll work it out between us, privately. My contact information is not hard to obtain.
Hashing it all out in public only diverts and distracts from the purpose of this thread, and that of XJCs.
Nobody's interested in revenge or tit-for-tat nonsense anymore.
Nobody needs you to run interference for them, Amused.
So that's it. No further comments.
Hashing it all out in public only diverts and distracts from the purpose of this thread, and that of XJCs.
Nobody's interested in revenge or tit-for-tat nonsense anymore.
Nobody needs you to run interference for them, Amused.
So that's it. No further comments.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay (thread 2)
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: August 18, 2011 05:54AM
Quote
Malcolm Wesley WREST
I would tend to credit what David as written here as "factual"....with the proviso that I would love to know more of WHO precisely had the "revelations" to disband (and what the revelations might have been exactly...David's "revelation" that with the Australian Pension, he was now in a position to be able to dump those who had previously provided him with an income stream....AND of course, David got his "cruise" paid for, out of it all, before casting them all aside....)
There is enough of the psychotic jingoism to show that the twit imagines he can somehow twist events sufficiently to then pretend to have "won"...
There is no doubt in my mind that it has totally baffled our opponents, which has been a source of great joy to me personally! Ha!
After his own empire dissolves, he insanely crows about the loss of the very thing, he cheated and lied about, (and assaulted individuals over!) for years and years to hold onto....
...hearing him being reduced to such inanity is just such a source of joy to me! HA!
What we're seeing out there now is a growing number of people just building on what they have learned from us and forming their own ministries, each just different enough from the others as to make it impossible for the hate sites to come up with a reliable means of identifying their targets, and then knowing where to shoot. They keep finding themselves drawn between love bombing someone who they think may have turned on Cherry and me, or damning and ridiculing someone who is still idealistic enough to be preaching the teachings of Jesus.
No-one is being "love-bombed" at all, and of course the reason that the dumped "graduates" cannot easily be located, is due to the fact that the "respective" ministries are quickly losing the ability to market themselves, at all effectively....
They have only ever "sold" membership to their own organization and worship of McKay (....there are for example far more quotes from scripture and references to Jesus, FROM Zeuszor in the pages of this thread, than in their own literature)...hence without a "product" any longer, I imagine that most of the "cells" will begin to fall into disarray (should say ARE falling into disarray!)....I still back my 12 to 18 months "disintergration" timeline, dating from November last year...
Still, ...we must look to "recovery" from McKay think (Zeuszors examples of reconciliation with family) as evidence that the damage McKay has wrought is beginning to be healed..... and McKay should of course continue to be roundly condemned for his decades of fraud and robbery....(he would be hoping to be progressively "forgotten" no doubt...and left "in peace".....)
Whether or not the JCs exist by that name anymore, they are nonetheless a semi-organized group of persons who are apparently still loyal to DM and his ideas. In that sense, they are still DM's deployable agents and in that respect have not "graduated" at all. In that sense, the cult still very much exists.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2011 05:55AM by zeuszor.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay (thread 2)
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: August 18, 2011 06:06AM
Quote
zeuszor
Look, I've been with this thread for a long time. I have made many mistakes and like to think that I have learned from them. If anybody has some personal grievance (if you'll pardon the expression) against me, then please, feel free to contact me privately and we'll work it out between us, privately. My contact information is not hard to obtain.
Hashing it all out in public only diverts and distracts from the purpose of this thread, and that of XJCs.
Nobody's interested in revenge or tit-for-tat nonsense anymore.
Nobody needs you to run interference for them, Amused.
So that's it. No further comments.
Let's everybody just chill. Irie-I. Peace be upon you, Amused.
[www.youtube.com]
"I AM THAT I AM
I'm not in this world
To live up to your expectations
Neither are you here to live up to mine, yeah
I don't owe no one
No obligation
No I don't mean none
So everything is fine, fine
CHORUS
I said I am that I am
I am I am Iam
(4x)
Don't underestimate
My ability
Don't definate my character
Don't belittle
My authority
It is time you recognized my quality
CHORUS
Learn to love
To love your brother
Don't covet your neighbor
Flee from the city
It's getting shitty
It is full of out-a-quity(Inequity)
CHORUS
I am the rock of the ages
You cannot move I at all
I am the son of lightining
You cannot move I at all
Son of Jacob
Cannot move me at all
I am the son of Moses
You can't move I at all
I am the son of David
You cannot move I at all
I am a firm ripe diamond
You cannot move I at all
You could a shed more tears
You cannot move I at all
You could a full of evil
You cannot move I at all
You could a try more nuttin'
You cannot move I at all
And you can try make a something
That can't move I at all
And could a come with ism
You can't move I at all
And could come with skism
That can't move I at all.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2011 06:07AM by zeuszor.
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